Airport Noise Related to - Flight Path Just After Takeoff - Takeoffs Now Radically Increasing?

[Aussie69]

Each airline has Aerodrome Operating Minima, which involves many aspects, such as wind speed/direction, temps, runway surface, obstacles/terrain, weather, runway surface, economics, etc etc. CNX is unique because of the obstacles (mountains) surrounding it. These mountains are the predominant factor. Most flights will land/take off to south to avoid the terrain, unless the wind speed (tailwind) is significant enough to prohibit South takeoff.

Many ppl here have correctly mentioned the volume of traffic. Take offs into the direction of arrivals is very uncommon because of the conflict with arriving traffic, but CNX traffic levels (and typical wind strength) are such that take off to South is common. But once traffic volume grows this option reduces. So traffic grows and Northerly take offs are required - now you introduce another factor, the SID (Standard Instrument Departure) for northern take offs requires that the aircraft climb quite rapidly to avoid the terrain - thus engine noise is increased.

So increased volume = increase in loud Northern departures. Well that is the basic explanation, there are many other factors, but that is the essentials

[Aussie69]

I forgot altitude, which is related to temp, but for the sake of this topic it is irrelevant. Visibility is another factor, but it is typically common to an area, so does effect landing/take-off direction

[Aussie69]

The air transport industry is one of the safest & most organised industries in the world. All these procedures are there for safety and grew out of lessons learned from incidents

[BaronOfThunder]

Each airline has Aerodrome Operating Minima, which involves many aspects, such as wind speed/direction, temps, runway surface, obstacles/terrain, weather, runway surface, economics, etc etc. CNX is unique because of the obstacles (mountains) surrounding it. These mountains are the predominant factor. Most flights will land/take off to south to avoid the terrain, unless the wind speed (tailwind) is significant enough to prohibit South takeoff.

Many ppl here have correctly mentioned the volume of traffic. Take offs into the direction of arrivals is very uncommon because of the conflict with arriving traffic, but CNX traffic levels (and typical wind strength) are such that take off to South is common. But once traffic volume grows this option reduces. So traffic grows and Northerly take offs are required - now you introduce another factor, the SID (Standard Instrument Departure) for northern take offs requires that the aircraft climb quite rapidly to avoid the terrain - thus engine noise is increased.

So increased volume = increase in loud Northern departures. Well that is the basic explanation, there are many other factors, but that is the essentials

Yes, that certainly seems to be what we are seeing, and it also explains some of my questions.

My main concern, which I think has been answered, is whether or not the preferable direction of take off is SOUTH.

If the answer is YES, then I am HAPPY, because it means that as soon as the traffic volume diminishes somewhat then we can go back to South Takeoff procedures.

I just wonder how much longer I will need to wait.

And I thought that some historical data could be one way to find out.

[BaronOfThunder]

I forgot altitude, which is related to temp, but for the sake of this topic it is irrelevant. Visibility is another factor, but it is typically common to an area, so does effect landing/take-off direction

Yes, and you also forgot dew-point, I think.

[Aussie69]

I forgot altitude, which is related to temp, but for the sake of this topic it is irrelevant. Visibility is another factor, but it is typically common to an area, so does effect landing/take-off direction

Yes, and you also forgot dew-point, I think.

Yes [emoji2] Indeed I did miss dew point; but I 'missed' many aspects for sake of simplicity.

Your sound issue is related to traffic volume (and/or perhaps seasonal weather conditions)

[garryjohns]

Someone is going to bring this up sooner or later, so, i will bite the bullet and do so now, because this is as it appears more and more.;

People with OCD understand that their notions do not correspond with reality; however, they feel that they must act as though their notions are correct.

Good luck in your quest/motive..what ever it really is.

Edited January 2, 2016 by garryjohns

[Aussie69]

I forgot altitude, which is related to temp, but for the sake of this topic it is irrelevant. Visibility is another factor, but it is typically common to an area, so does effect landing/take-off direction

Yes, and you also forgot dew-point, I think.

Haha, I don't think dew point arises much in Thailand [emoji33]

[Aussie69]

Someone is going to bring this up sooner or later, so, i will bite the bullet and do so now, because this is as it appears more and more.;

People with OCD understand that their notions do not correspond with reality; however, they feel that they must act as though their notions are correct.

Good luck in your quest/motive..what ever it really is.

What is your point exactly? Explain what exactly what I posted does not equate to reality? Back up your post with examples.

My post is simply my opinion based upon my knowledge of aviation; plus I referred to the current STAR/SID charts for CNX before I posted to make sure I was accurate

[garryjohns]

Someone is going to bring this up sooner or later, so, i will bite the bullet and do so now, because this is as it appears more and more.;

People with OCD understand that their notions do not correspond with reality; however, they feel that they must act as though their notions are correct.

Good luck in your quest/motive..what ever it really is.

What is your point exactly? Explain what exactly what I posted does not equate to reality? Back up your post with examples.

My post is simply my opinion based upon my knowledge of aviation; plus I referred to the current STAR/SID charts for CNX before I posted to make sure I was accurate

Not you at all. You are correct and accurate.

Was referring to OP.

[JaseTheBass]

Download the flightradar24 app and you can monitor every flight from CNX or any airport in real time, and collect the data you desire ( aircraft types, take off and landing times, destinations etc)

Most, not all.

[Aussie69]

Someone is going to bring this up sooner or later, so, i will bite the bullet and do so now, because this is as it appears more and more.;

People with OCD understand that their notions do not correspond with reality; however, they feel that they must act as though their notions are correct.

Good luck in your quest/motive..what ever it really is.

So, you have opinions about others opinions - are you contributing to the question raised - no. If you have differing opinion/or disagree then voice them with factual points.

[Aussie69]

Download the flightradar24 app and you can monitor every flight from CNX or any airport in real time, and collect the data you desire ( aircraft types, take off and landing times, destinations etc)

Most, not all.

Great idea

[BaronOfThunder]

I think air traffic control have been reading this and decided to spread out the noise! I'm near the river/night bazaar and we've had several planes over us this evening. Not just-taking-off loud, but I've not noticed them at all before.

That could be the stack.

[Aussie69]

Each airline has Aerodrome Operating Minima, which involves many aspects, such as wind speed/direction, temps, runway surface, obstacles/terrain, weather, runway surface, economics, etc etc. CNX is unique because of the obstacles (mountains) surrounding it. These mountains are the predominant factor. Most flights will land/take off to south to avoid the terrain, unless the wind speed (tailwind) is significant enough to prohibit South takeoff.

Many ppl here have correctly mentioned the volume of traffic. Take offs into the direction of arrivals is very uncommon because of the conflict with arriving traffic, but CNX traffic levels (and typical wind strength) are such that take off to South is common. But once traffic volume grows this option reduces. So traffic grows and Northerly take offs are required - now you introduce another factor, the SID (Standard Instrument Departure) for northern take offs requires that the aircraft climb quite rapidly to avoid the terrain - thus engine noise is increased.

So increased volume = increase in loud Northern departures. Well that is the basic explanation, there are many other factors, but that is the essentials

Yes, that certainly seems to be what we are seeing, and it also explains some of my questions.

My main concern, which I think has been answered, is whether or not the preferable direction of take off is SOUTH.

If the answer is YES, then I am HAPPY, because it means that as soon as the traffic volume diminishes somewhat then we can go back to South Takeoff procedures.

I just wonder how much longer I will need to wait.

And I thought that some historical data could be one way to find out.

Sorry I didnt answer this clearly, yes the predominate take-off direction for CNX is South

[BaronOfThunder]

I forgot altitude, which is related to temp, but for the sake of this topic it is irrelevant. Visibility is another factor, but it is typically common to an area, so does effect landing/take-off direction

Yes, and you also forgot dew-point, I think.

Yes [emoji2] Indeed I did miss dew point; but I 'missed' many aspects for sake of simplicity.

Your sound issue is related to traffic volume (and/or perhaps seasonal weather conditions)

Well, dew point could be important, even in Thailand with hot weather, because it is possible to ice the wings in Thailand. And then it might mean that a plane would actually fall from the sky, I think.

[garryjohns]

Someone is going to bring this up sooner or later, so, i will bite the bullet and do so now, because this is as it appears more and more.;

People with OCD understand that their notions do not correspond with reality; however, they feel that they must act as though their notions are correct.

Good luck in your quest/motive..what ever it really is.

So, you have opinions about others opinions - are you contributing to the question raised - no. If you have differing opinion/or disagree then voice them with factual points.

My sentence above in dark italics is self explanatory of op,that is of course if you have read all of the op's posts as i have.

As i said in #100 is not regarding you.

[Aussie69]

I think air traffic control have been reading this and decided to spread out the noise! I'm near the river/night bazaar and we've had several planes over us this evening. Not just-taking-off loud, but I've not noticed them at all before.

That could be the stack.

Haha, if it were that Simple. The stack would be far from earshot in Chaingmai. The stack(s) are far away

[BaronOfThunder]

Another 737 just went over.

HO1326 / DKH1326
Juneyao Airlines

HO1326 / DKH1326
Juneyao Airlines

Aircraft(B738)
Boeing 737-8B5

And it is actually true that these Boeing jets are about the nosiest that I have heard. Or, maybe just lower in altitude.

KE2670

Edited January 2, 2016 by BaronOfThunder

[arunsakda]

Like garryjohns says just move away from the university, nimman, maya, art museum area and the northbound take offs are not really an issue.

The xmas new year and weeks around it are the busiest time of the year for tourist arrivals. Flights are full, extra flights, hotels are full, room rates are at the highest level etc.

Regardless of the wind direction (unless there is a storm and strong winds) flights will land from the south over Hangdong , Mahia area. 80% of flights are coming up from the south anyway. When its time for the flight to depart regardless of wind direction the airport will depart the flights to the south. Even the chinese and korean flights. Taking off towards the south can only happen if there are no inbound flights coming in to land from the south. With it being the busiest time of the year there is a steady stream of flights landing this is not possible. Thats why the last 5-6 days you have noticed more take offs to the north.

A lot of the chinese flights are operated by modern boeings and airbuses fresh from the factory in last 12 months. There are no A380's flying into Chiang Mai. My feeling with the recent boom in flights from China, is that this is only the beginning . Its similar to when europeans started flying to spain in the 1970's. There was a huge increase in 80's and increases on that in the 90's. Its still very early days with chinese outbound tourism.

If you do move probably best not to Mahia or the Sanphakwan area. When the traffic dies down a bit the a lot more flights will depart to the south so one aircraft roars over those areas twice.

OK, this makes a lot of sense.

1. However: You are stating that flights are taking of towards the south. These past few days, that is definitely not the case. All flights today are taking off toward the north. I don't know what the runway number is, but it must be almost due north.

2. And you are correct that these past few days the noise has been greatest.

3. Also, this month, the noise seems to have been markedly greater than in November 2015.

4. I appreciate your reply: What I would like is to search for a reliable tally of the number of lights taking off toward the North, and then toward the South.....for each month, and for the past 5 years, if possible. Obviously, this data is readily available somewhere. Some spreadsheet, perhaps.

5. You are RIGHT that it is only the beginning, because if you check the Chinese visitor forecast, this could double next year.

6. I think you might check your thinking about why I see planes either going straight North without turning to the East and then South. And then a much smaller number which take off headed North, but quickly turn East and South before they get up past about 3000 feet altitude.

7. Also, I think you are correct that the planes are packed and at maximum takeoff weight, and so this probably adds to the takeoff noise level.

8. Logically, it just seems correct that to cause the least discomfort to the maximum number of people living around the airport, the flights should optimally take off toward the South. But, they do not. At least, not now. They are all taking off North, and then just accelerating up up and away toward, I guess, China.

Even this does not make sense, because why are the Chinese visitors leaving Chiang Mai for home on New Years Day? One would think they would be staying for a few days after the New Year.

I was not here in previous years. And I have nothing to compare this to, and so need the quantitative data.

(I am not quibbling with anything you have said. I just see the planes Taking Off to the North, and it seems they might be doing this since China is their destination.)

((Sorry, I think I misread your sentence stating that flights are taking off to the South, which you did not say.))

8. "Logically, it just seems correct that to cause the least discomfort to the maximum number of people living around the airport, the flights should optimally take off toward the South."

Logically, IMO, the discomfort to all the people living around the airport would not happen if said people did not choose to live in this location.Yes?

After all the airport has been here for some 95 years already.

1. As you point out, the airport has been located here for a long time.

2. At that time, the time when the location of the airport was decided, there was no proper city planning.

3. At that time, the people who put the airport there did not expect that CM would be as big or spread out as it is today

4. They probably did not envision that a single plane would be as big and heavy as a battleship!

5. So now the answer is to make the planes quieter, and maybe to build another runway so that planes can takeoff South instead of north,

6. And do you think that all the schools should be moved? I mean the schools that are directly in the Flight Path? I mean that small school CMU, for example? Because, otherwise, how can they concentrate on their studies?

4). Truth is MGTOW on a ７３７-８００

Is about 100,000 pounds LESS than one of the Mark 7 16" Guns that were on the big WWII US battleships

[BaronOfThunder]

Well, in reply, I wonder if you compare thrust of an A380 and a actual forward thrust of a battleship such as the HMS Colossus.What you might find.

Anyway, I do not think that ships will ever fly.

[Aussie69]

I think air traffic control have been reading this and decided to spread out the noise! I'm near the river/night bazaar and we've had several planes over us this evening. Not just-taking-off loud, but I've not noticed them at all before.

The 'stacks' are far from Chiang mai, they are part of the STAR (Standard Terminal Arrival Procedure) for CNX, the entry point (and stacks) for the CNX STARS are all very far from Chiang Mai, you would never hear them.

[BaronOfThunder]

I think air traffic control have been reading this and decided to spread out the noise! I'm near the river/night bazaar and we've had several planes over us this evening. Not just-taking-off loud, but I've not noticed them at all before.

The 'stacks' are far from Chiang mai, they are part of the STAR (Standard Terminal Arrival Procedure) for CNX, the entry point (and stacks) for the CNX STARS are all very far from Chiang Mai, you would never hear them.

Oh, well I did not know where it was.

All I know is that now checking the FR24 on the phone, there are no more yellow icons. Hopefully a good sign.

[Aussie69]

Yes, weight is another factor, a heavier aircraft (fuel/cargo/pax to China) will need to use max thrust during departure. Weight is a topic In itself. Your noise issues are likely results of what I posted previously

[Aussie69]

My only objection to some others posts is that it detracts & dilutes from the content I posted. It adds confusion & misinformation

[BaronOfThunder]

My only objection to some others posts is that it detracts & dilutes from the content I posted. It adds confusion & misinformation

Well, not really, because I think the your comments are clear.

The Korean flight that passed overhead at 00:31 flew about 430 meters from here, according to the FR24 track, and it was plenty loud.

It is too late to calculate the hypotenuse, but it was too close for me. Engines probably 2000 feet away, and really loud.

[arunsakda]

Move to Sankhangphaeng. Then in 30 years when they actually do a new airport you will have real legitimate reason to complain about noise.

Edited January 2, 2016 by arunsakda

[WorkingTourist]

However, the onset of this noise to the north of the airport has been quite sudden, and quite shocking. Anyway, I think that if we can compare this year's figures with last year's figures, then we will surely know that is in store for us during the next two months […]

I stayed in Huay Kaew Soi 2 roughly 2 years ago, before the airport expansion, and the noise from planes did bother me back then.

I had a real estate agent drive me around a year ago, he showed me a few places north of the airport, and I didn’t have to stay for long to confirm that there was too much noise when a plane went overhead.

So no, this is not a new problem or something you should expect to be over in a few weeks.

Flight data is not going to solve your problem, moving out of the flight path will! Surely there are other places with mountain a view that does not suffer from noise pollution.

[BaronOfThunder]

6:09 A Flight to HK, AirBus A320-216 just flew past my window, engines screamin'

I had just settled in for a long winter's nap, but I guess they did not care. If I wanted to sleep, I am sure that I should have bought a ticket on that flight because it would have been much quieter inside the aircraft, for sure.

What is the point of sleeping, because i just got to sleep at 2:45AM, and now it is time for church! Thank the Lord!

Ear Protectors would not work, but I usually sleep with a pillow on top of my head, which really cuts down on the high frequency sounds.

I should NOT complain, because when I first got here in the summer, I lived right next to a construction site, and the workers ate a lot of chicken, and they had all the chicken in the car park, or the garage which was on the first floor and unenclosed.

Either they were eating these roosters or they were fighting them, but they are giant birds, too.

So now it is back to bed for me, to lie in wait, but I just wanted to post this in case anyone else heard that plane, and wondered where it was going.....

It is bound for HK

HS-BBK

Now at 31 thousand feet, and the knowledge does not make me feel any better.

[BaronOfThunder]

However, the onset of this noise to the north of the airport has been quite sudden, and quite shocking. Anyway, I think that if we can compare this year's figures with last year's figures, then we will surely know that is in store for us during the next two months […]

I stayed in Huay Kaew Soi 2 roughly 2 years ago, before the airport expansion, and the noise from planes did bother me back then.

I had a real estate agent drive me around a year ago, he showed me a few places north of the airport, and I didn’t have to stay for long to confirm that there was too much noise when a plane went overhead.

So no, this is not a new problem or something you should expect to be over in a few weeks.

Flight data is not going to solve your problem, moving out of the flight path will! Surely there are other places with mountain a view that does not suffer from noise pollution.

You mean, the airport has recently expanded, too?

JUST noticed this:

http://www.ttrweekly.com/site/2015/03/chiang-mai-airport-expands/

The expansion is in response to a rapid increase in tourists to Chiang Mai.

Chiang Mai International Airport earned THB1,228.86 million in income, last year, representing a 35% increase.

The airport also served 52,642 flights and 6.63 million passengers, a 21% increase over 2013.

Currently, there are seven airlines providing 14 flights on domestic routes operating at the airport and 20 international airlines serving 18 overseas destinations. On average, there are 191 flights daily.

Edited January 2, 2016 by BaronOfThunder