Protein powders

[JayBird]

I'll just toss in my 2c worth here: If you are thinking of getting Testosterone Injections, please be careful Make sure you get them from a good doctor at a good/safe place and they use the right stuff, and you actually need it

I'll wager to say, unless you really really need it, you might want to think twice/three times before going that route.

Note: There are also side-effects that you may not like, so also please consider that too.

Thank you.

[Hal65]

Regarding protein powders, natural bodybuilders/athletes will gain muscle so slowly that very little extra protein is required on a daily basis. Protein supplements are also great for lazy eaters who don't feel like eating a lot of meat and/or preparing food.

It's exactly this kind of shaming that turns off so many people from fitness.

If you're on the fence about getting started again, walking is great. Don't let people tell you otherwise.

The same applies to dieting. Life is busy. Protein powders give you protein. Just like other protein sources. You shouldn't rely on them as your sole source of protein because foods offer so much more. That's why we call them supplements.

Advanced lifters benefit from protein supplements also. A common protein target is 0.8 g - 1g per pound of bodyweight during a bulking cycle, and 1.0 to 1.2 g per lb during cutting.

Very few fitness guys and lifters in general are adamantly against protein powders. Tropo's position is in the minority. I encourage the guys on the fence about getting into fitness and weight lifting to do their research and see if the protein recommendations commonly are genuine and scientifically supported by reputable studies... or if they are just the result of supplement industry marketing as suggested in this thread.

You totally misinterpret everything I've said about protein and make too much of the "lazy" word I used. Where in my post did I say I'm "adamantly against protein powders"? I actually suggested the best times to use them.

At various points in my training over the years I've gone through buckets full of protein powder and it was indeed because I was lazy to prepare food, so I'm also guilty as charged. I'll put money down that over my years in the gym I've used more protein powder than anyone you know. That could also be interpreted as: I've wasted more money on protein powders than anyone you know.

Regarding "Tropo's position is in the minority"... Yes the voice of reason is usually in the minority. Just about everything I'll tell you about training will be in the minority because people usually follow the crowd and don't think about what they are doing or question why they are doing what they are doing. I can visit any exercise facility and see the majority either wasting their time or doing it all wrong. This is what happens when you've been at it as long as I have. I've made all the mistakes. I'm not here to motivate anyone - I'm here to tell it like it is.

You said people who use protein powders are lazy eaters. Either own it or concede that this is wrong.

The "I'm in the minority and that's a good thing" argument works against crowds but not scientific studies. The science is definitely against you on the effectiveness, value, and utility of protein powders. Let me know if you'd like to trade references, I'm willing.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Hal65

[tropo]

I'll just toss in my 2c worth here: If you are thinking of getting Testosterone Injections, please be careful Make sure you get them from a good doctor at a good/safe place and they use the right stuff, and you actually need it

I'll wager to say, unless you really really need it, you might want to think twice/three times before going that route.

Note: There are also side-effects that you may not like, so also please consider that too.

Thank you.

Of course. As you can gather I always suggest blood tests. This is extremely important when you're considering TRT. I would not recommend that anyone with normal levels go on TRT.

As long as you're supplementing to the point where your levels are within the normal range, there should no side effects. Going for supraphysiological levels is where the problems start. A regular complete blood panel is a good idea too, but that should be part of any over 50's health plan anyway.

Edited April 10, 2016 by tropo

[JayBird]

I'll just toss in my 2c worth here: If you are thinking of getting Testosterone Injections, please be careful Make sure you get them from a good doctor at a good/safe place and they use the right stuff, and you actually need it

I'll wager to say, unless you really really need it, you might want to think twice/three times before going that route.

Note: There are also side-effects that you may not like, so also please consider that too.

Thank you.

Of course. As you can gather I always suggest blood tests. This is extremely important when you're considering TRT. I would not recommend that anyone with normal levels go on TRT.

As long as you're supplementing to the point where your levels are within the normal range, there should no side effects. Going for supraphysiological levels is where the problems start. A regular complete blood panel is a good idea too, bad that should be part of any over 50's health plan anyway.

Absolutely agree. Go so far as to say at the 50 year point it might be wise to have a normal/regular check-up to ensure you are fit enough for a specific exercise regime.

Also, as far as side-effects, I was thinking about things like Acne, Hair loss/Growth, etc.

[tropo]

Regarding protein powders, natural bodybuilders/athletes will gain muscle so slowly that very little extra protein is required on a daily basis. Protein supplements are also great for lazy eaters who don't feel like eating a lot of meat and/or preparing food.

It's exactly this kind of shaming that turns off so many people from fitness.

If you're on the fence about getting started again, walking is great. Don't let people tell you otherwise.

The same applies to dieting. Life is busy. Protein powders give you protein. Just like other protein sources. You shouldn't rely on them as your sole source of protein because foods offer so much more. That's why we call them supplements.

Advanced lifters benefit from protein supplements also. A common protein target is 0.8 g - 1g per pound of bodyweight during a bulking cycle, and 1.0 to 1.2 g per lb during cutting.

Very few fitness guys and lifters in general are adamantly against protein powders. Tropo's position is in the minority. I encourage the guys on the fence about getting into fitness and weight lifting to do their research and see if the protein recommendations commonly are genuine and scientifically supported by reputable studies... or if they are just the result of supplement industry marketing as suggested in this thread.

You totally misinterpret everything I've said about protein and make too much of the "lazy" word I used. Where in my post did I say I'm "adamantly against protein powders"? I actually suggested the best times to use them.

At various points in my training over the years I've gone through buckets full of protein powder and it was indeed because I was lazy to prepare food, so I'm also guilty as charged. I'll put money down that over my years in the gym I've used more protein powder than anyone you know. That could also be interpreted as: I've wasted more money on protein powders than anyone you know.

Regarding "Tropo's position is in the minority"... Yes the voice of reason is usually in the minority. Just about everything I'll tell you about training will be in the minority because people usually follow the crowd and don't think about what they are doing or question why they are doing what they are doing. I can visit any exercise facility and see the majority either wasting their time or doing it all wrong. This is what happens when you've been at it as long as I have. I've made all the mistakes. I'm not here to motivate anyone - I'm here to tell it like it is.

You said people who use protein powders are lazy eaters. Either own it or concede that this is wrong.

The "I'm in the minority and that's a good thing" argument works against crowds but not scientific studies. The science is definitely against you on the effectiveness, value, and utility of protein powders. Let me know if you'd like to trade references, I'm willing.

As I said, you really got too excited about my "lazy" comment. You took it too literally and didn't read or see anything after you read that. I even conceded that "lazy" was the reason I consumed so much. (do you even read my posts?). Have you never felt tired or exhausted after an intense session in the gym? If so, use those words instead of "lazy".

My comments are all on the side of science, in contrast to the manufacturer's recommendations, which are on the side of profit.

I don't know what you're expecting to prove with references. I didn't say how much extra protein an active athlete needs. I said that bodybuilders don't need a lot of extra protein. You won't prove anything at all with studies because you need to consider too many variables to come up with numbers. i.e. length of time training, the type of training, the intensity fo the training, the age of the athlete, the quantity of other macronutrients consumed.

Go ahead if you must - you'll just end up getting your head in a knot.

Edited April 10, 2016 by tropo

[tropo]

Absolutely agree. Go so far as to say at the 50 year point it might be wise to have a normal/regular check-up to ensure you are fit enough for a specific exercise regime.

Also, as far as side-effects, I was thinking about things like Acne, Hair loss/Growth, etc.

Yes, you can tell who's overdosing down at the local gym by observing back acne on 50 plus guys LOL... and of course there are a lot of other side-effects too. Bear in mind a lot of guys are using anabolics and not just testosterone.

[HLover]

But those big huge muscles sure make them look keen and tough.

[HLover]

But those big huge muscles sure make them look keen and tough.

Weeeeeeeeell for me heading for 70 it has made me feel great....At my age I do not want to look my age, but sadly what ever l do my face looks my age....

But, at my age, a weee guy, the youngsters cannot do what I do....Noooo, I am not looking for admiration, I am looking for MY fight against myself and body looking OK...Perhaps my age rejection thing, I think it is, , but this ol' Trans is having fun...

My remark was to the PED enhanced puff monsters that strut along looking mean and scary.

You sound like a fine fellow who doesn't fit into that narrow minded and shallow stereotype.

[JayBird]

But those big huge muscles sure make them look keen and tough.

Weeeeeeeeell for me heading for 70 it has made me feel great....At my age I do not want to look my age, but sadly what ever l do my face looks my age....

But, at my age, a weee guy, the youngsters cannot do what I do....Noooo, I am not looking for admiration, I am looking for MY fight against myself and body looking OK...Perhaps my age rejection thing, I think it is, , but this ol' Trans is having fun...

Hulk Hogan is 62 and he's looking pretty good. Plus, Dick Clark was in his 80s and with lots of plastic surgery (face lift for a tad over 100k THB) you too can look young till you die

[JayBird]

But those big huge muscles sure make them look keen and tough.

Weeeeeeeeell for me heading for 70 it has made me feel great....At my age I do not want to look my age, but sadly what ever l do my face looks my age....

But, at my age, a weee guy, the youngsters cannot do what I do....Noooo, I am not looking for admiration, I am looking for MY fight against myself and body looking OK...Perhaps my age rejection thing, I think it is, , but this ol' Trans is having fun...

My remark was to the PED enhanced puff monsters that strut along looking mean and scary.

You sound like a fine fellow who doesn't fit into that narrow minded and shallow stereotype.

For sure....I don't give a stuff about what others 'want'......I go to the gym and fight myself there..........It is my thing.....Am not interested in anyone else when I am there...I walk a lot in the gym cos sometimes my head swims.....But I know what my body is up to.....Messages......If I could not understand those messages I would probably die.....But I do.....If 20 minutes tells me go home, I go home.....Bit of fun...

I am on a Traps regime at the mo...it is going well...I am happy with it....I am just trying to wake up lost years through illness, 35 years....

I do not take any protein stuff or anything else, l eat once a day in the evening, l still can see gains, not Arnie gains, my gains.......Mrs.Trans says... ...you looking different...

Excellent: IF you are having fun, happy, and seeing a positive result that you and/or the Mrs. like, that's what matters. I get the feeling you aren't in it for competition nor to strut around in so you sound like you're already on the right track. Just keep it healthy and keep it fun!

I have seen some guys with big muscles that looked a bit 'odd' (as if it was water bagged pecs for example) as opposed to tight dense muscles (like you see on professional body builders). Is that the PED stuff you're talking about?

[Hal65]

As I said, you really got too excited about my "lazy" comment. You took it too literally and didn't read or see anything after you read that. I even conceded that "lazy" was the reason I consumed so much. (do you even read my posts?). Have you never felt tired or exhausted after an intense session in the gym? If so, use those words instead of "lazy".

My comments are all on the side of science, in contrast to the manufacturer's recommendations, which are on the side of profit.

I don't know what you're expecting to prove with references. I didn't say how much extra protein an active athlete needs. I said that bodybuilders don't need a lot of extra protein. You won't prove anything at all with studies because you need to consider too many variables to come up with numbers. i.e. length of time training, the type of training, the intensity fo the training, the age of the athlete, the quantity of other macronutrients consumed.

Go ahead if you must - you'll just end up getting your head in a knot.

Regarding the bold part about protein intake, this is another attempt at complexifying the simple. Let's see what some of the the research says, shall we?

http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

In one study, .82 g lb prevented muscle loss during a 1,000 cal/day cut (Pikosky 2008)

In another, .61 g/lb and 1.19 g/lb were equally helpful to novice trainees (Lemon 1992)

Strength athletes benefitted equally in another study comparing .77 g/lb per day to .91 g or more (Hoffman 2006)

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/maki1.htm

A Kent University study tested 3 levels of intake and the 1.4 g/kg bodyweight/day group had equal gains to higher levels.

Another study at Letterman Institute found that 2.8 g protein per kg bodyweight gained 3.28 g lean mass over 40 days. Increasing intake to 3.5 g/kg/day increased gains another 6%

https://authoritynutrition.com/how-much-protein-per-day/

This article looked at several studies and concluded that .7 - 1 g per pound bodyweight is a reasonable estimate of optimal protein intake.

Based on the evidence, a relatively high protein diet helps muscle gain. This runs contrary to Tropo's vague claims to the opposite which appear to be based on self anecdotes, as he is discrediting the scientific data as "too complex to draw conclusions."

Edited April 10, 2016 by Hal65

[HLover]

Well folk have different ideas of what they want to look like...Sure Arnie to me was perfect in his day, but is very different now at a similar age to me.........Perhaps if I was a rich guy and didn't give a stuff cos I could have what I wanted I may feel different, but I ain't so I must do what my head says to bring my smile....

Me, shirt on, look like any old guy, if someone calls me out, shirt off, they might have a surprise...

This rascal is waiting for that moment.............

Sounds like my first girlfriend....hubba hubba

When she took her shirt off, it was glorious.

Edited April 10, 2016 by HLover

[tropo]

Excellent: IF you are having fun, happy, and seeing a positive result that you and/or the Mrs. like, that's what matters. I get the feeling you aren't in it for competition nor to strut around in so you sound like you're already on the right track. Just keep it healthy and keep it fun!

I have seen some guys with big muscles that looked a bit 'odd' (as if it was water bagged pecs for example) as opposed to tight dense muscles (like you see on professional body builders). Is that the PED stuff you're talking about?

There's something called "synthol" that produces some pretty weird shaped muscles - perhaps that's what you're referring to. It's extremely popular in the Middle-East, but you'll find it the world over. Once upon a time it was used to help with stubborn muscles that wouldn't grow, but now they use it all over.

Synthol is composed of 85% medium-chain triglyceride oils (a fatty acid), 7.5% lidocaine (painkiller), and 7.5 5 benzyl alcohol. The preparation is injected deep into the muscle where it is encapsulated between the fascicles (bundles of muscle fibers)

Edited April 10, 2016 by tropo

[tropo]

Regarding the bold part about protein intake, this is another attempt at complexifying the simple. Let's see what some of the the research says, shall we?

http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

In one study, .82 g lb prevented muscle loss during a 1,000 cal/day cut (Pikosky 2008)

In another, .61 g/lb and 1.19 g/lb were equally helpful to novice trainees (Lemon 1992)

Strength athletes benefitted equally in another study comparing .77 g/lb per day to .91 g or more (Hoffman 2006)

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/maki1.htm

A Kent University study tested 3 levels of intake and the 1.4 g/kg bodyweight/day group had equal gains to higher levels.

Another study at Letterman Institute found that 2.8 g protein per kg bodyweight gained 3.28 g lean mass over 40 days. Increasing intake to 3.5 g/kg/day increased gains another 6%

https://authoritynutrition.com/how-much-protein-per-day/

This article looked at several studies and concluded that .7 - 1 g per pound bodyweight is a reasonable estimate of optimal protein intake.

Based on the evidence, a relatively high protein diet helps muscle gain. This runs contrary to Tropo's vague claims to the opposite which appear to be based on self anecdotes, as he is discrediting the scientific data as "too complex to draw conclusions."

LOL. You spent all that time to prove that what I said was correct: i.e. A natural bodybuilder doesn't need as much protein as the protein manufacturer's are suggesting. Thanks! Yes, Tropo was purposefully vague so as not to get anyone like you too excited about posting Googled articles.

0.7g - 1 g per pound of bodyweight is a minimum of only 105 - 140 grams for an average athlete. Not a lot.

Now you're calling that "relatively high". Relative to what?

I don't believe I gave you any numbers, so why are you trying to prove that my numbers are wrong? I've seen most of these studies and many more as I've been in the game a long time... and we've also had plenty of discussions on this topic on this forum over the years.

Taking it any further here is really going off topic.

Edited April 10, 2016 by tropo

[JayBird]

Well folk have different ideas of what they want to look like...Sure Arnie to me was perfect in his day, but is very different now at a similar age to me.........Perhaps if I was a rich guy and didn't give a stuff cos I could have what I wanted I may feel different, but I ain't so I must do what my head says to bring my smile....

Me, shirt on, look like any old guy, if someone calls me out, shirt off, they might have a surprise...

This rascal is waiting for that moment.............

[Dirk_brijs]

pattayawhey.com excellent service with an online help desk and they deliver same day at your door for free.

[Hal65]

LOL. You spent all that time to prove that what I said was correct: i.e. A natural bodybuilder doesn't need as much protein as the protein manufacturer's are suggesting. Thanks! Yes, Tropo was purposefully vague so as not to get anyone like you too excited about posting Googled articles.

0.7g - 1 g per pound of bodyweight is a minimum of only 105 - 140 grams for an average athlete. Not a lot.

Now you're calling that "relatively high". Relative to what?

I don't believe I gave you any numbers, so why are you trying to prove that my numbers are wrong? I've seen most of these studies and many more as I've been in the game a long time... and we've also had plenty of discussions on this topic on this forum over the years.

Taking it any further here is really going off topic.

.7g to 1g per lb bodyweight can only be described as a very high amount, compared to the 40g the average adult consumes.

And you are using the low estimates. For a 200 lb guy that's 200g a day. People who lift tend to be heavier.

If you are saying these amounts aren't high then you are simply wrong. Or is this another instance where words betray you and "not a lot" really means "a lot"?

Edited April 11, 2016 by Hal65

[tropo]

LOL. You spent all that time to prove that what I said was correct: i.e. A natural bodybuilder doesn't need as much protein as the protein manufacturer's are suggesting. Thanks! Yes, Tropo was purposefully vague so as not to get anyone like you too excited about posting Googled articles.

0.7g - 1 g per pound of bodyweight is a minimum of only 105 - 140 grams for an average athlete. Not a lot.

Now you're calling that "relatively high". Relative to what?

I don't believe I gave you any numbers, so why are you trying to prove that my numbers are wrong? I've seen most of these studies and many more as I've been in the game a long time... and we've also had plenty of discussions on this topic on this forum over the years.

Taking it any further here is really going off topic.

.7g to 1g per lb bodyweight can only be described as a very high amount, compared to the 40g the average adult consumes.

And you are using the low estimates. For a 200 lb guy that's 200g a day. People who lift tend to be heavier.

If you are saying these amounts aren't high then you are simply wrong. Or is this another instance where words betray you and "not a lot" really means "a lot"?

Now we're arguing over what is "high" and what is "low", what is "a lot" and what is "not a lot", and what the average size of guys lifting weight is?

I used the range of 150 - 200 lbs as most natural weight lifters fall somewhere in that range. Also, can you assume that a 200 lb guy who is 25% bodyfat needs the same protein as a 200 lb guy who is 10% bodyfat? If you want to get too scientific about this, you really will get a headache - I warned you.

You should be determining your figures on lean body mass, not on gross body mass - did your studies do that? What method do they use to determine muscle mass - Bod Pods, hydro-static weighing, DEXA scan, biometric scales? Did your studies determine if the candidates were novice or experienced lifters and determine their level of lifting experience. Beginners always gain muscle faster than experienced guys. "Muscle memory" plays a big role in muscle gain too. For example, if you took me as a candidate you'd be surprised how fast I can gain muscle after a layoff, even with a limited protein intake. What is muscle gain? You can put a lot of muscle on by carb loading alone as energy stores comprise a large part of muscle... all you need is carbs. Yikes! Tropo is getting a headache thinking of all the possibilities.

A small steak can (depends on the fat content) deliver 100 grams of protein (LOL. what's a "small" steak?). I doubt your 40 gram average protein consumption adult lives in Pattaya. He might well live in Bangladesh or Mali.

The only reason you started this banter is because you got upset about me using the word "lazy". Let's get over it and enjoy our high/medium/low protein diets.

BTW, all this talk of protein powders reminded me I have a nearly 3 year old sealed pack of whey protein from Club Protein in the back of my kitchen cupboard - I wonder if it's still OK. I used to go through 1kg of that per week...

Edited April 11, 2016 by tropo

[HLover]

A girl who works at a local specialty establishment says she gets too much protein during high season and needs to offset the ingestion with M-150.

[Hal65]

Now we're arguing over what is "high" and what is "low", what is "a lot" and what is "not a lot", and what the average size of guys lifting weight is?

I used the range of 150 - 200 lbs as most natural weight lifters fall somewhere in that range. Also, can you assume that a 200 lb guy who is 25% bodyfat needs the same protein as a 200 lb guy who is 10% bodyfat? If you want to get too scientific about this, you really will get a headache - I warned you.

You should be determining your figures on lean body mass, not on gross body mass - did your studies do that? What method do they use to determine muscle mass - Bod Pods, hydro-static weighing, DEXA scan, biometric scales? Did your studies determine if the candidates were novice or experienced lifters and determine their level of lifting experience. Beginners always gain muscle faster than experienced guys. "Muscle memory" plays a big role in muscle gain too. For example, if you took me as a candidate you'd be surprised how fast I can gain muscle after a layoff, even with a limited protein intake. What is muscle gain? You can put a lot of muscle on by carb loading alone as energy stores comprise a large part of muscle... all you need is carbs. Yikes! Tropo is getting a headache thinking of all the possibilities.

A small steak can (depends on the fat content) deliver 100 grams of protein (LOL. what's a "small" steak?). I doubt your 40 gram average protein consumption adult lives in Pattaya. He might well live in Bangladesh or Mali.

The only reason you started this banter is because you got upset about me using the word "lazy". Let's get over it and enjoy our high/medium/low protein diets.

BTW, all this talk of protein powders reminded me I have a nearly 3 year old sealed pack of whey protein from Club Protein in the back of my kitchen cupboard - I wonder if it's still OK. I used to go through 1kg of that per week...

There's no arguing about what a high intake vs a low one is, I am simply showing you why you are wrong to say that the recommended intake for athletes and lifters is relatively low.

A 200 lb guy would do well to stay within the target of .7 - 1 g per lb. No need to overcomplicate things.

The reason I called you out is because you keep talking down on protein powders. This is harmful. I have nothing against you but if you keep suggesting that they are useless or unnecessary, I have to rebalance the discussion. Anyways have a nice day.

[tropo]

Now we're arguing over what is "high" and what is "low", what is "a lot" and what is "not a lot", and what the average size of guys lifting weight is?

I used the range of 150 - 200 lbs as most natural weight lifters fall somewhere in that range. Also, can you assume that a 200 lb guy who is 25% bodyfat needs the same protein as a 200 lb guy who is 10% bodyfat? If you want to get too scientific about this, you really will get a headache - I warned you.

You should be determining your figures on lean body mass, not on gross body mass - did your studies do that? What method do they use to determine muscle mass - Bod Pods, hydro-static weighing, DEXA scan, biometric scales? Did your studies determine if the candidates were novice or experienced lifters and determine their level of lifting experience. Beginners always gain muscle faster than experienced guys. "Muscle memory" plays a big role in muscle gain too. For example, if you took me as a candidate you'd be surprised how fast I can gain muscle after a layoff, even with a limited protein intake. What is muscle gain? You can put a lot of muscle on by carb loading alone as energy stores comprise a large part of muscle... all you need is carbs. Yikes! Tropo is getting a headache thinking of all the possibilities.

A small steak can (depends on the fat content) deliver 100 grams of protein (LOL. what's a "small" steak?). I doubt your 40 gram average protein consumption adult lives in Pattaya. He might well live in Bangladesh or Mali.

The only reason you started this banter is because you got upset about me using the word "lazy". Let's get over it and enjoy our high/medium/low protein diets.

BTW, all this talk of protein powders reminded me I have a nearly 3 year old sealed pack of whey protein from Club Protein in the back of my kitchen cupboard - I wonder if it's still OK. I used to go through 1kg of that per week...

There's no arguing about what a high intake vs a low one is, I am simply showing you why you are wrong to say that the recommended intake for athletes and lifters is relatively low.

A 200 lb guy would do well to stay within the target of .7 - 1 g per lb. No need to overcomplicate things.

The reason I called you out is because you keep talking down on protein powders. This is harmful. I have nothing against you but if you keep suggesting that they are useless or unnecessary, I have to rebalance the discussion. Anyways have a nice day.

You just got hooked on my "lazy" comment and couldn't let go.

Reading my earlier post it's fairly obvious that I do believe protein powders have benefit (mentioned taking it after workouts and before bed in some circumstances). I still take whey protein immediately after a workout.

I'm suggesting moderation and if that's "talking down on protein powders", then sobeit. The average trainer doesn't need a lot of extra protein. That's not complicated. Muscle growth is slow, and for people who have been at it for years - extremely slow. In most cases, unless the trainer has an accurate way to determine muscle mass (what method do you use?) - nearly imperceivable. No amount of extra protein will change that.

You'll see natural guys down at the gym looking the same, year in, year out - while scoffing down large amounts of expensive protein supplements. The hardest guys to find are lean, muscular ones (10% fat of less) - most of the big protein guzzlers are bulky and fat. It is hard though to find natural bodybuilders in Pattaya, so that will skew perceptions quite a bit.

[JayBird]

Not that I want to jump into a conversation about exactly how many milligrams of protein a person should injest per hour, but: Some of the bulky guys who are 'fat' and chowing down on protein *may* *possibly* be the strongman type. They tend to care less about how they look and more about how much muscle/strength they have. So could be focusing on building muscle and never worried about chopping off excess fat.

But there are of course those who drown themselves in supplements and expensive proteins and hoodies and don't have much to show for it.

You'll get most of your gains just by being disciplined, dedicated, and sticking to an exercise regime that works for you. The rest, that's just giving it an extra boost

[bobbin]

I always thought and aimed for 1g. per .lb of lean muscle mass, as tropo says. Not 1g. per .lb of gross body weight...

And I like protein shakes. Milkshakes with benefits!

[tropo]

I always thought and aimed for 1g. per .lb of lean muscle mass, as tropo says. Not 1g. per .lb of gross body weight...

And I like protein shakes. Milkshakes with benefits!

You may have noticed that Meiji have put out a "High Protein Whey Formula" in recent months. It comes in vanilla and chocolate flavours. They had a plain, unsweetened milk flavour one for awhile, but it probably didn't sell well so they replaced it with vanilla. I like the vanilla flavour as it is not very sweet. I can't read the Thai, but I think the 350ml drink provides 25 grams of protein. They cost 49 baht.

I just made a shake with Club Protein WPC that expired in Dec 2014. It was a darker yellow, but still tasted fine. I don't like wasting stuff. How much are they charging per kilo these days?

Edited April 12, 2016 by tropo

[JayBird]

I always thought and aimed for 1g. per .lb of lean muscle mass, as tropo says. Not 1g. per .lb of gross body weight...

And I like protein shakes. Milkshakes with benefits!

You may have noticed that Meiji have put out a "High Protein Whey Formula" in recent months. It comes in vanilla and chocolate flavours. They had a plain, unsweetened milk flavour one for awhile, but it probably didn't sell well so they replaced it with vanilla. I like the vanilla flavour as it is not very sweet. I can't read the Thai, but I think the 350ml drink provides 25 grams of protein. They cost 49 baht.

I just made a shake with Club Protein WPC that expired in Dec 2014. It was a darker yellow, but still tasted fine. I don't like wasting stuff. How much are they charging per kilo these days?

I saw hat and it tasted pretty good. I was slamming them down after a workout when I had run out of Whey at home. However, their calorie to protein ratio is not the greatest Works in a pinch, but I would not use it for large quantities of protein.

If I'm doing a long-distance walk/jog through the city and want to replenish though, that would be an option!

[tropo]

I always thought and aimed for 1g. per .lb of lean muscle mass, as tropo says. Not 1g. per .lb of gross body weight...

And I like protein shakes. Milkshakes with benefits!

You may have noticed that Meiji have put out a "High Protein Whey Formula" in recent months. It comes in vanilla and chocolate flavours. They had a plain, unsweetened milk flavour one for awhile, but it probably didn't sell well so they replaced it with vanilla. I like the vanilla flavour as it is not very sweet. I can't read the Thai, but I think the 350ml drink provides 25 grams of protein. They cost 49 baht.

I just made a shake with Club Protein WPC that expired in Dec 2014. It was a darker yellow, but still tasted fine. I don't like wasting stuff. How much are they charging per kilo these days?

I saw hat and it tasted pretty good. I was slamming them down after a workout when I had run out of Whey at home. However, their calorie to protein ratio is not the greatest Works in a pinch, but I would not use it for large quantities of protein.

If I'm doing a long-distance walk/jog through the city and want to replenish though, that would be an option!

What is the calories/protein ratio? The whole label is in Thai, so I can't get it. The vanilla flavoured one is not sweet at all, but the chocolate one is. It says on the vanilla one that it has 50% less sugar. I'm assuming that's 50% less sugar than the chocolate flavoured one which is quite sweet.

[JayBird]

Should be 4 calories / protein. Can't really go less than that. If you get a mix with about 5 calories/protein you're okey. More than that and its question time.

[tropo]

Should be 4 calories / protein. Can't really go less than that. If you get a mix with about 5 calories/protein you're okey. More than that and its question time.

Obviously you're worried about the fat content. As I said, I can't read the label. I don't know whether they're using 2% fat or full cream milk. I'm guessing they're using 2% milk.

I don't sweat minor details like that.

[JayBird]

Should be 4 calories / protein. Can't really go less than that. If you get a mix with about 5 calories/protein you're okey. More than that and its question time.

Obviously you're worried about the fat content. As I said, I can't read the label. I don't know whether they're using 2% fat or full cream milk. I'm guessing they're using 2% milk.

I don't sweat minor details like that.

Sorry, got confused. Was talking about protein powder, now the Meiji protein shake. It was significantly more than 4calorie/protein. If member serves I think it was about 200 calories for 25g of protein.

[tropo]

Should be 4 calories / protein. Can't really go less than that. If you get a mix with about 5 calories/protein you're okey. More than that and its question time.

Obviously you're worried about the fat content. As I said, I can't read the label. I don't know whether they're using 2% fat or full cream milk. I'm guessing they're using 2% milk.

I don't sweat minor details like that.

Sorry, got confused. Was talking about protein powder, now the Meiji protein shake. It was significantly more than 4calorie/protein. If member serves I think it was about 200 calories for 25g of protein.

That could be right - I see a 200 at the top. I tried Google Translate, but I can't find the words.

Here's the label: