British man found dead on Koh Tao

[Jonmarleesco]

What jlcrab means is that we can not be 100% sure about anything in this case, all of us try to use common sense but it will not solve anything , we are a victim to social media and news reports , only the people that were on KT that night and people close to the investigation knows the truth. The rest of us can only use our........common sense.

Common sense tells me that hell will freeze over before the RTP would admit that Luke Miller was murdered if that is the case, in the light of recent passed events you would have to be a complete fool to believe anything else. With the David and Hannah case still in limbo, just the name Miller is enough to send them running for the hills.

I think only a complete fool, void of objective reasoning could believe this was anything but an accident and frankly, what it is doing is giving justification to an argument farangs in general are completely irrational, hysterical idiots who wish to believe worst case scenarios in all things Thai. ( and maybe that's true?)

It's crying wolf and in any future cases where there may actually be police malfeasance, it will be used to dismiss allegations- those goofy farang and their constant conspiracy theories..

A modicum of intelligent thinking goes a long way. Conspiracy theories? You think? Try some simple logic, such as how someone being stabbed in the abdomen several times, having also cut his wrists, somehow translates into a suicide. Or how a suicide is the one and only explanation for an individual found hanging by the neck, with his wrists bound. Or why so many doubts persist over the safety of the convictions in the Kao Tao murders. Never mind the number of tourist deaths that currently are occurring on a regular basis; not, by any stretch of the imagination, all clear cut.

[seedy]

off topic conspiracy theory posts - and quoted replies - removed

keep the personal attacks off this forum

[Moonsterk]

What jlcrab means is that we can not be 100% sure about anything in this case, all of us try to use common sense but it will not solve anything , we are a victim to social media and news reports , only the people that were on KT that night and people close to the investigation knows the truth. The rest of us can only use our........common sense.

Common sense tells me that hell will freeze over before the RTP would admit that Luke Miller was murdered if that is the case, in the light of recent passed events you would have to be a complete fool to believe anything else. With the David and Hannah case still in limbo, just the name Miller is enough to send them running for the hills.

I think only a complete fool, void of objective reasoning could believe this was anything but an accident and frankly, what it is doing is giving justification to an argument farangs in general are completely irrational, hysterical idiots who wish to believe worst case scenarios in all things Thai. ( and maybe that's true?)

It's crying wolf and in any future cases where there may actually be police malfeasance, it will be used to dismiss allegations- those goofy farang and their constant conspiracy theories..

A modicum of intelligent thinking goes a long way. Conspiracy theories? You think? Try some simple logic, such as how someone being stabbed in the abdomen several times, having also cut his wrists, somehow translates into a suicide. Or how a suicide is the one and only explanation for an individual found hanging by the neck, with his wrists bound. Or why so many doubts persist over the safety of the convictions in the Kao Tao murders. Never mind the number of tourist deaths that currently are occurring on a regular basis; not, by any stretch of the imagination, all clear cut.

I'm not arguing the Witheridge and David Miller murder conviction was not a set up, and there is a murderer still at large. (I'll do that on that thread- maybe, still on the fence over it.) Only this particular accusation is a conspiracy theory and Luke Miller's companions do not have one iota of evidence pointing to murder, and are not reliable types that should be believed.

Please tell us the names of these other victims you are referring to, in the interest of validity. I have not heard of someone found on Koh Tao with multiple stab wounds that was attributed to suicide, do you have a link?

And many suicides do tie their own hands behind their back. It is not a difficult action and prevents one from aborting the attempt.

If you are referring to the French man, he left a note and his family was satisfied with the verdict.

I think it needs to be pointed out repeatedly, these visitors are engaging in high risk behavior, in a high risk situation- illegal drugs, not a lot of enforcement, etc. There are going to be deaths.

[smedly]

all that is known about this case is that Luke was found dead in a swimming pool of a bar/hotel complex that he wasn't staying at, there is nothing else

The Thai police speculated what happened, nothing more than anyone is doing here

Nobody saw or witnessed what happened allegedly

There is no cctv footage

There is nothing reported from the bar where Luke was drinking (attached to the Hotel)

His friends and relatives claim there are injuries on his body that don't fit with the Thai Police speculation as to what happened, that is up to them, they are no more/less qualified than the Thai police to make such a claim.

Up to now all that is relied upon is the Thai autopsy regarding any injuries and cause of death, nobody here has seen it, some people might believe that such reports are tailored to suit an agenda or that details have been excluded - that is up to each individual to believe or not

[Moonsterk]

all that is known about this case is that Luke was found dead in a swimming pool of a bar/hotel complex that he wasn't staying at, there is nothing else

The Thai police speculated what happened, nothing more than anyone is doing here

Nobody saw or witnessed what happened allegedly

There is no cctv footage

There is nothing reported from the bar where Luke was drinking (attached to the Hotel)

His friends and relatives claim there are injuries on his body that don't fit with the Thai Police speculation as to what happened, that is up to them, they are no more/less qualified than the Thai police to make such a claim.

Up to now all that is relied upon is the Thai autopsy regarding any injuries and cause of death, nobody here has seen it, some people might believe that such reports are tailored to suit an agenda or that details have been excluded - that is up to each individual to believe or not

BBC reported the Thai post-mortem CoD as drowning. Can we agree it's established as a fact? The companions, seeing the injuries made allegations it was murder with the Thai police covering it for no reason that I can ascertain, other than gossip and innuendo of other deaths in the last year as being murders, too.

The police version of possible event is perfectly valid, believable and very likely. The companions version is not.

[smedly]

all that is known about this case is that Luke was found dead in a swimming pool of a bar/hotel complex that he wasn't staying at, there is nothing else

The Thai police speculated what happened, nothing more than anyone is doing here

Nobody saw or witnessed what happened allegedly

There is no cctv footage

There is nothing reported from the bar where Luke was drinking (attached to the Hotel)

His friends and relatives claim there are injuries on his body that don't fit with the Thai Police speculation as to what happened, that is up to them, they are no more/less qualified than the Thai police to make such a claim.

Up to now all that is relied upon is the Thai autopsy regarding any injuries and cause of death, nobody here has seen it, some people might believe that such reports are tailored to suit an agenda or that details have been excluded - that is up to each individual to believe or not

BBC reported the Thai post-mortem CoD as drowning. Can we agree it's established as a fact? The companions, seeing the injuries made allegations it was murder with the Thai police covering it

nobody disputing that his eventual death was caused by drowning, it means absolutely nothing, the issue is how he ended up unconscious in the swimming pool and drowned, like I said already - the Thai police speculation as to what happened is just that - speculation, and they made that statement before any autopsy was carried out

[TheLobster]

all that is known about this case is that Luke was found dead in a swimming pool of a bar/hotel complex that he wasn't staying at, there is nothing else

The Thai police speculated what happened, nothing more than anyone is doing here

Nobody saw or witnessed what happened allegedly

There is no cctv footage

There is nothing reported from the bar where Luke was drinking (attached to the Hotel)

His friends and relatives claim there are injuries on his body that don't fit with the Thai Police speculation as to what happened, that is up to them, they are no more/less qualified than the Thai police to make such a claim.

Up to now all that is relied upon is the Thai autopsy regarding any injuries and cause of death, nobody here has seen it, some people might believe that such reports are tailored to suit an agenda or that details have been excluded - that is up to each individual to believe or not

BBC reported the Thai post-mortem CoD as drowning. Can we agree it's established as a fact? The companions, seeing the injuries made allegations it was murder with the Thai police covering it for no reason that I can ascertain, other than gossip and innuendo of other deaths in the last year as being murders, too.

The police version of possible event is perfectly valid, believable and very likely. The companions version is not.

Not sure the BBC reported on the Thai post mortem? They quoted a policeman as far as I have seen .........

Luke Miller Thai pool death: Family 'concern' over inquiry:

According to police, Mr Miller's body was found on Friday morning at Sunset Bar on Sairee Beach.

Witnesses and CCTV footage at the bar showed he was there until the early hours of the morning.

But, the security guards who regularly search the pool for lost belongings after parties did not find Mr Miller when they made a search at 05:30 local time. His body was discovered at about 07:20.

His sister Maria said: "There's different answers everywhere, there is nothing set in stone, no actual facts have been displayed... I do have concerns about how it has been dealt with.

"I don't think anyone knows what really went on, but we will find answers and we will get answers."

Police Lt. Col. Napa Senatip, a police investigator on Koh Tao who handled the case, told the BBC that police were not looking further into the case because "the investigation showed no clues signalling that this was a murder", and the autopsy showed that the cause of death was drowning.

[evadgib]

[smedly]

all that is known about this case is that Luke was found dead in a swimming pool of a bar/hotel complex that he wasn't staying at, there is nothing else

The Thai police speculated what happened, nothing more than anyone is doing here

Nobody saw or witnessed what happened allegedly

There is no cctv footage

There is nothing reported from the bar where Luke was drinking (attached to the Hotel)

His friends and relatives claim there are injuries on his body that don't fit with the Thai Police speculation as to what happened, that is up to them, they are no more/less qualified than the Thai police to make such a claim.

Up to now all that is relied upon is the Thai autopsy regarding any injuries and cause of death, nobody here has seen it, some people might believe that such reports are tailored to suit an agenda or that details have been excluded - that is up to each individual to believe or not

BBC reported the Thai post-mortem CoD as drowning. Can we agree it's established as a fact? The companions, seeing the injuries made allegations it was murder with the Thai police covering it for no reason that I can ascertain, other than gossip and innuendo of other deaths in the last year as being murders, too.

The police version of possible event is perfectly valid, believable and very likely. The companions version is not.

Not sure the BBC reported on the Thai post mortem? They quoted a policeman as far as I have seen .........

Luke Miller Thai pool death: Family 'concern' over inquiry:

According to police, Mr Miller's body was found on Friday morning at Sunset Bar on Sairee Beach.

Witnesses and CCTV footage at the bar showed he was there until the early hours of the morning.

But, the security guards who regularly search the pool for lost belongings after parties did not find Mr Miller when they made a search at 05:30 local time. His body was discovered at about 07:20.

His sister Maria said: "There's different answers everywhere, there is nothing set in stone, no actual facts have been displayed... I do have concerns about how it has been dealt with.

"I don't think anyone knows what really went on, but we will find answers and we will get answers."

Police Lt. Col. Napa Senatip, a police investigator on Koh Tao who handled the case, told the BBC that police were not looking further into the case because "the investigation showed no clues signalling that this was a murder", and the autopsy showed that the cause of death was drowning.

and ?

what difference does it make what Col Napa says, if they are hiding something he is hardly going to admit it now is he

quoting all this stuff is really pointless - like I said above - you either believe or you don't, who's to say he wasn't beaten up in the bar and thrown into the pool unconscious and drowned, not saying that is what happened - it really depends on the injuries on his body, whether they are consistent with jumping into a pool or getting a serious hiding - I don't know either way but I do find the reports of injuries that are largely unexplained as suspicious

[stephenterry]

Plus his name was Miller and he died on koh tao. Coincidence?

[roo860]

Plus his name was Miller and he died on koh tao. Coincidence?

Yes.

[TheLobster]

Up to now all that is relied upon is the Thai autopsy regarding any injuries and cause of death, nobody here has seen it, some people might believe that such reports are tailored to suit an agenda or that details have been excluded - that is up to each individual to believe or not

BBC reported the Thai post-mortem CoD as drowning. Can we agree it's established as a fact?

Not sure the BBC reported on the Thai post mortem? They quoted a policeman as far as I have seen .........

Luke Miller Thai pool death: Family 'concern' over inquiry:

Police Lt. Col. Napa Senatip, a police investigator on Koh Tao who handled the case, told the BBC that police were not looking further into the case because "the investigation showed no clues signalling that this was a murder", and the autopsy showed that the cause of death was drowning.

and ?

I was pointing out that the BBC were quoting the police and not the actual post mortem and so difficult to see how "we agree it's established as a fact?"

As His sister Maria said: "There's different answers everywhere, there is nothing set in stone, no actual facts have been displayed."

[happy Joe]

all that is known about this case is that Luke was found dead in a swimming pool of a bar/hotel complex that he wasn't staying at, there is nothing else

The Thai police speculated what happened, nothing more than anyone is doing here

Nobody saw or witnessed what happened allegedly

There is no cctv footage

There is nothing reported from the bar where Luke was drinking (attached to the Hotel)

His friends and relatives claim there are injuries on his body that don't fit with the Thai Police speculation as to what happened, that is up to them, they are no more/less qualified than the Thai police to make such a claim.

Up to now all that is relied upon is the Thai autopsy regarding any injuries and cause of death, nobody here has seen it, some people might believe that such reports are tailored to suit an agenda or that details have been excluded - that is up to each individual to believe or not

This is Roquefort that say to Camembert "you stink"

You talk about policiere speculation as the only one who speculates is you.

Police had elements to formulate hypotheses. The body, the places, the testimonials... You have nothing, but you nevertheless give your opinion and pass lapidary judgment about their work.

Finally thank you to distract us a little about this sad subject. The show must go on, huh.

Edited February 25, 2016 by happy Joe

[davidstipek]

all that is known about this case is that Luke was found dead in a swimming pool of a bar/hotel complex that he wasn't staying at, there is nothing else

The Thai police speculated what happened, nothing more than anyone is doing here

Nobody saw or witnessed what happened allegedly

There is no cctv footage

There is nothing reported from the bar where Luke was drinking (attached to the Hotel)

His friends and relatives claim there are injuries on his body that don't fit with the Thai Police speculation as to what happened, that is up to them, they are no more/less qualified than the Thai police to make such a claim.

Up to now all that is relied upon is the Thai autopsy regarding any injuries and cause of death, nobody here has seen it, some people might believe that such reports are tailored to suit an agenda or that details have been excluded - that is up to each individual to believe or not

This is Roquefort that say to Camembert "you stink"

You talk about policiere speculation as the only one who speculates is you.

Police had elements to formulate hypotheses. The body, the places, the testimonials... You have nothing, but you nevertheless give your opinion and pass lapidary judgment about their work.

Finally thank you to distract us a little about this sad subject. The show must go on, huh.

It has been stated that there are visible wounds to Luke's Body, or was. Was there any analyzed data of DNA captured in these areas? Also the rebuttal was that yes Luke did in fact Drown. What people are asking is if the Drowning had extra or outside help...? A search around Luke's Finger Nails and the Bodily injuries would produce fastest results! Unless the Police have already bathed him in Hydrogen Peroxide and given him a Manicure...

[smedly]

all that is known about this case is that Luke was found dead in a swimming pool of a bar/hotel complex that he wasn't staying at, there is nothing else

The Thai police speculated what happened, nothing more than anyone is doing here

Nobody saw or witnessed what happened allegedly

There is no cctv footage

There is nothing reported from the bar where Luke was drinking (attached to the Hotel)

His friends and relatives claim there are injuries on his body that don't fit with the Thai Police speculation as to what happened, that is up to them, they are no more/less qualified than the Thai police to make such a claim.

Up to now all that is relied upon is the Thai autopsy regarding any injuries and cause of death, nobody here has seen it, some people might believe that such reports are tailored to suit an agenda or that details have been excluded - that is up to each individual to believe or not

BBC reported the Thai post-mortem CoD as drowning. Can we agree it's established as a fact? The companions, seeing the injuries made allegations it was murder with the Thai police covering it for no reason that I can ascertain, other than gossip and innuendo of other deaths in the last year as being murders, too.

The police version of possible event is perfectly valid, believable and very likely. The companions version is not.

Not sure the BBC reported on the Thai post mortem? They quoted a policeman as far as I have seen .........

Luke Miller Thai pool death: Family 'concern' over inquiry:

According to police, Mr Miller's body was found on Friday morning at Sunset Bar on Sairee Beach.

Witnesses and CCTV footage at the bar showed he was there until the early hours of the morning.

But, the security guards who regularly search the pool for lost belongings after parties did not find Mr Miller when they made a search at 05:30 local time. His body was discovered at about 07:20.

His sister Maria said: "There's different answers everywhere, there is nothing set in stone, no actual facts have been displayed... I do have concerns about how it has been dealt with.

"I don't think anyone knows what really went on, but we will find answers and we will get answers."

Police Lt. Col. Napa Senatip, a police investigator on Koh Tao who handled the case, told the BBC that police were not looking further into the case because "the investigation showed no clues signalling that this was a murder", and the autopsy showed that the cause of death was drowning.

and ?

what difference does it make what Col Napa says, if they are hiding something he is hardly going to admit it now is he

quoting all this stuff is really pointless - like I said above - you either believe or you don't, who's to say he wasn't beaten up in the bar and thrown into the pool unconscious and drowned, not saying that is what happened - it really depends on the injuries on his body, whether they are consistent with jumping into a pool or getting a serious hiding - I don't know either way but I do find the reports of injuries that are largely unexplained as suspicious

the family and friends believe there was more, so I will keep this post live...........I honestly believe there is a seriously evil element on KT - be under no illusion .... we are tolerated here and that is about it, I don't like Thais socialising in places were I socialise, these local cowards who think they are somebody strut around with fancy rings and take photos with assault rifles think they are big and can do anything............mice or men, oh I have an M16 makes me really hard on a holiday Island......nuff said

[smedly]

all that is known about this case is that Luke was found dead in a swimming pool of a bar/hotel complex that he wasn't staying at, there is nothing else

The Thai police speculated what happened, nothing more than anyone is doing here

Nobody saw or witnessed what happened allegedly

There is no cctv footage

There is nothing reported from the bar where Luke was drinking (attached to the Hotel)

His friends and relatives claim there are injuries on his body that don't fit with the Thai Police speculation as to what happened, that is up to them, they are no more/less qualified than the Thai police to make such a claim.

Up to now all that is relied upon is the Thai autopsy regarding any injuries and cause of death, nobody here has seen it, some people might believe that such reports are tailored to suit an agenda or that details have been excluded - that is up to each individual to believe or not

This is Roquefort that say to Camembert "you stink"

You talk about policiere speculation as the only one who speculates is you.

Police had elements to formulate hypotheses. The body, the places, the testimonials... You have nothing, but you nevertheless give your opinion and pass lapidary judgment about their work.

Finally thank you to distract us a little about this sad subject. The show must go on, huh.

not sure I am following your post, if you have more information please share, you are right - I have nothing, a body was found in a swimming pool........there is nothing more than that, friends and family saw the body and saw injuries.......you just go right ahead and explain them Sherlock

[SoiBiker]

all that is known about this case is that Luke was found dead in a swimming pool of a bar/hotel complex that he wasn't staying at, there is nothing else

The Thai police speculated what happened, nothing more than anyone is doing here

Nobody saw or witnessed what happened allegedly

There is no cctv footage

There is nothing reported from the bar where Luke was drinking (attached to the Hotel)

His friends and relatives claim there are injuries on his body that don't fit with the Thai Police speculation as to what happened, that is up to them, they are no more/less qualified than the Thai police to make such a claim.

Up to now all that is relied upon is the Thai autopsy regarding any injuries and cause of death, nobody here has seen it, some people might believe that such reports are tailored to suit an agenda or that details have been excluded - that is up to each individual to believe or not

BBC reported the Thai post-mortem CoD as drowning. Can we agree it's established as a fact? The companions, seeing the injuries made allegations it was murder with the Thai police covering it for no reason that I can ascertain, other than gossip and innuendo of other deaths in the last year as being murders, too.

The police version of possible event is perfectly valid, believable and very likely. The companions version is not.

Not sure the BBC reported on the Thai post mortem? They quoted a policeman as far as I have seen .........

Luke Miller Thai pool death: Family 'concern' over inquiry:

According to police, Mr Miller's body was found on Friday morning at Sunset Bar on Sairee Beach.

Witnesses and CCTV footage at the bar showed he was there until the early hours of the morning.

But, the security guards who regularly search the pool for lost belongings after parties did not find Mr Miller when they made a search at 05:30 local time. His body was discovered at about 07:20.

His sister Maria said: "There's different answers everywhere, there is nothing set in stone, no actual facts have been displayed... I do have concerns about how it has been dealt with.

"I don't think anyone knows what really went on, but we will find answers and we will get answers."

Police Lt. Col. Napa Senatip, a police investigator on Koh Tao who handled the case, told the BBC that police were not looking further into the case because "the investigation showed no clues signalling that this was a murder", and the autopsy showed that the cause of death was drowning.

and ?

what difference does it make what Col Napa says, if they are hiding something he is hardly going to admit it now is he

quoting all this stuff is really pointless - like I said above - you either believe or you don't, who's to say he wasn't beaten up in the bar and thrown into the pool unconscious and drowned, not saying that is what happened - it really depends on the injuries on his body, whether they are consistent with jumping into a pool or getting a serious hiding - I don't know either way but I do find the reports of injuries that are largely unexplained as suspicious

the family and friends believe there was more, so I will keep this post live...........I honestly believe there is a seriously evil element on KT - be under no illusion .... we are tolerated here and that is about it, I don't like Thais socialising in places were I socialise, these local cowards who think they are somebody strut around with fancy rings and take photos with assault rifles think they are big and can do anything............mice or men, oh I have an M16 makes me really hard on a holiday Island......nuff said

If you don't like socialising near Thai people, you should probably get out of Thailand.

[Moonsterk]

Not sure the BBC reported on the Thai post mortem? They quoted a policeman as far as I have seen .........

Luke Miller Thai pool death: Family 'concern' over inquiry:

According to police, Mr Miller's body was found on Friday morning at Sunset Bar on Sairee Beach.

Witnesses and CCTV footage at the bar showed he was there until the early hours of the morning.

But, the security guards who regularly search the pool for lost belongings after parties did not find Mr Miller when they made a search at 05:30 local time. His body was discovered at about 07:20.

His sister Maria said: "There's different answers everywhere, there is nothing set in stone, no actual facts have been displayed... I do have concerns about how it has been dealt with.

"I don't think anyone knows what really went on, but we will find answers and we will get answers."

Police Lt. Col. Napa Senatip, a police investigator on Koh Tao who handled the case, told the BBC that police were not looking further into the case because "the investigation showed no clues signalling that this was a murder", and the autopsy showed that the cause of death was drowning.

Police Lt. Col. Napa Senatip, a police investigator on Koh Tao who handled the case, told the BBC that police were not looking further into the case because "the investigation showed no clues signalling that this was a murder", and the autopsy showed that the cause of death was drowning.

Are you disputing the CoD, or not ?

and ?

what difference does it make what Col Napa says, if they are hiding something he is hardly going to admit it now is he

quoting all this stuff is really pointless - like I said above - you either believe or you don't, who's to say he wasn't beaten up in the bar and thrown into the pool unconscious and drowned, not saying that is what happened - it really depends on the injuries on his body, whether they are consistent with jumping into a pool or getting a serious hiding - I don't know either way but I do find the reports of injuries that are largely unexplained as suspicious

Well I've read a lot of this argument from LMWM supporters that CoD not determined, and of course it is, drowning. ( And not having all members consistent on message points is a group leader failing.)

Disregarding the Thai police theory of how he drowned needs to have a basis other than heard about other suspicious deaths, that weren't really, and of course the real murder from 16 months prior, and;

inserting "Jumping in a pool" as a fact instead of a theory police offered.

I think the police version is a little more than that, and involves falling four or five meters off a roof, or vertical wall, ( on his way up, on his way down, or just hanging out on top will likely never be known,) landing on concrete, ending up unconscious, and drowning.

All in all, perfectly reasonable scenario especially in light of the young man, and his group's risk taking behaviours- seen the picture of two people balancing on a rail over a long drop, covered in day glo paint on one of the shroom adventures?

And so, just what are these injuries? I've read contusions, scrapes, cuts - which are consistent with police version of a fall onto concrete and barbed wire scratches. Am I wrong in my assessment of the injuries? If so, why hasn't the UK press been shown these pics taken by companions which they could then report on?

These are publicity seeking individuals, admittedly so on the " Justice for..." page, why keep this info under wraps?

I've seen FB posts made where a report was to be released Feb 4th, " proving " murder. Never materialised.

I've seen a hysterical posting that made the FB rounds where two bodies of western couple washed up on a Samui beach, which was then woven into a scenario they were the couple pictured in Lotus bar with Luke- and ostensibly murdered him.

So where are those bodies? I never saw a report, and even if so isn't it more likely a person drowned in the high seas at the time?

See what I'm getting at? You seem to be rational, and if you just look at what the basis is for the accusation, and do not take presumptions as fact such as " jumped in pool" I think it is clear it is just groundless.

[smedly]

Not sure the BBC reported on the Thai post mortem? They quoted a policeman as far as I have seen .........

Luke Miller Thai pool death: Family 'concern' over inquiry:

According to police, Mr Miller's body was found on Friday morning at Sunset Bar on Sairee Beach.

Witnesses and CCTV footage at the bar showed he was there until the early hours of the morning.

But, the security guards who regularly search the pool for lost belongings after parties did not find Mr Miller when they made a search at 05:30 local time. His body was discovered at about 07:20.

His sister Maria said: "There's different answers everywhere, there is nothing set in stone, no actual facts have been displayed... I do have concerns about how it has been dealt with.

"I don't think anyone knows what really went on, but we will find answers and we will get answers."

Police Lt. Col. Napa Senatip, a police investigator on Koh Tao who handled the case, told the BBC that police were not looking further into the case because "the investigation showed no clues signalling that this was a murder", and the autopsy showed that the cause of death was drowning.

Police Lt. Col. Napa Senatip, a police investigator on Koh Tao who handled the case, told the BBC that police were not looking further into the case because "the investigation showed no clues signalling that this was a murder", and the autopsy showed that the cause of death was drowning.

Are you disputing the CoD, or not ?

and ?

what difference does it make what Col Napa says, if they are hiding something he is hardly going to admit it now is he

quoting all this stuff is really pointless - like I said above - you either believe or you don't, who's to say he wasn't beaten up in the bar and thrown into the pool unconscious and drowned, not saying that is what happened - it really depends on the injuries on his body, whether they are consistent with jumping into a pool or getting a serious hiding - I don't know either way but I do find the reports of injuries that are largely unexplained as suspicious

inserting "Jumping in a pool" as a fact instead of a theory police offered.

I think the police version is a little more than that, and involves falling four or five meters off a roof, or vertical wall, ( on his way up, on his way down, or just hanging out on top will likely never be known,) landing on concrete, ending up unconscious, and drowning.

All in all, perfectly reasonable scenario

in your opinion

incidently - the DJ booth is right at the edge of the pool so there is only water below, if he had fallen onto concrete as you suggest perhaps hitting his head - he would have had a serious head injury

anyway you have been posting on this thread for a very long time now to almost manic proportions repeating the same things over and over, you have you thoughts I have mine, I am not going to engage with you further on this topic, I think everything that needs to be said has been said many times over

[Moonsterk]

Not sure the BBC reported on the Thai post mortem? They quoted a policeman as far as I have seen .........

Luke Miller Thai pool death: Family 'concern' over inquiry:

According to police, Mr Miller's body was found on Friday morning at Sunset Bar on Sairee Beach.

Witnesses and CCTV footage at the bar showed he was there until the early hours of the morning.

But, the security guards who regularly search the pool for lost belongings after parties did not find Mr Miller when they made a search at 05:30 local time. His body was discovered at about 07:20.

His sister Maria said: "There's different answers everywhere, there is nothing set in stone, no actual facts have been displayed... I do have concerns about how it has been dealt with.

"I don't think anyone knows what really went on, but we will find answers and we will get answers."

Police Lt. Col. Napa Senatip, a police investigator on Koh Tao who handled the case, told the BBC that police were not looking further into the case because "the investigation showed no clues signalling that this was a murder", and the autopsy showed that the cause of death was drowning.

Police Lt. Col. Napa Senatip, a police investigator on Koh Tao who handled the case, told the BBC that police were not looking further into the case because "the investigation showed no clues signalling that this was a murder", and the autopsy showed that the cause of death was drowning.

Are you disputing the CoD, or not ?

and ?

what difference does it make what Col Napa says, if they are hiding something he is hardly going to admit it now is he

quoting all this stuff is really pointless - like I said above - you either believe or you don't, who's to say he wasn't beaten up in the bar and thrown into the pool unconscious and drowned, not saying that is what happened - it really depends on the injuries on his body, whether they are consistent with jumping into a pool or getting a serious hiding - I don't know either way but I do find the reports of injuries that are largely unexplained as suspicious

inserting "Jumping in a pool" as a fact instead of a theory police offered.

I think the police version is a little more than that, and involves falling four or five meters off a roof, or vertical wall, ( on his way up, on his way down, or just hanging out on top will likely never be known,) landing on concrete, ending up unconscious, and drowning.

All in all, perfectly reasonable scenario

in your opinion

incidently - the DJ booth is right at the edge of the pool so there is only water below, if he had fallen onto concrete as you suggest perhaps hitting his head - he would have had a serious head injury

anyway you have been posting on this thread for a very long time now to almost manic proportions repeating the same things over and over, you have you thoughts I have mine, I am not going to engage with you further on this topic, I think everything that needs to be said has been said many times over

Only if he had hit his head, more supposition on your part. He may well have passed out and fell into the water, or a portion of his body hit concrete. Again I'm only offering up scenarios, as I read there were injuries that a drowning did not explain, and which Thai police offered up possible explanations such as above, which then- it seemed to me- the companions took as a form of hoodwinking and began this campaign of paranoia. (IMO)

I also have found out they stayed with Ms Hansen, ( Jack Hansen's mother) and there is someone who would have fed into the demonizing of Thai police - with good reason, too of course.

[IslandLover]

Moonsterk, on 26 Feb 2016 - 09:00, said:

Only if he had hit his head, more supposition on your part. He may well have passed out and fell into the water, or a portion of his body hit concrete. Again I'm only offering up scenarios, as I read there were injuries that a drowning did not explain, and which Thai police offered up possible explanations such as above, which then- it seemed to me- the companions took as a form of hoodwinking and began this campaign of paranoia. (IMO)

I also have found out they stayed with Ms Hansen, ( Jack Hansen's mother) and there is someone who would have fed into the demonizing of Thai police - with good reason, too of course.

which then- it seemed to me- the companions took as a form of hoodwinking and began this campaign of paranoia. (IMO)

I'm glad you added (IMO) after that statement. When will you stop attacking the family of Luke Miller, or the two people who were with him on that holiday with your insistence that it was an accident? Not until the family has received the evidence they require from the Thai authorities and the inquest into Luke's death has been fully concluded in the UK will they have a better idea of what really caused his death. However, according to the family, the cause of death was not drowning. This information will have come from the U.K. autopsy report. The inquest into Luke's death has been opened and adjourned to later date, as is the norm in the U.K. It cannot be concluded until all the information has been received from the Thai authorities. The entire inquest process can take more than a year.

[Moonsterk]

Moonsterk, on 26 Feb 2016 - 09:00, said:

Only if he had hit his head, more supposition on your part. He may well have passed out and fell into the water, or a portion of his body hit concrete. Again I'm only offering up scenarios, as I read there were injuries that a drowning did not explain, and which Thai police offered up possible explanations such as above, which then- it seemed to me- the companions took as a form of hoodwinking and began this campaign of paranoia. (IMO)

I also have found out they stayed with Ms Hansen, ( Jack Hansen's mother) and there is someone who would have fed into the demonizing of Thai police - with good reason, too of course.

which then- it seemed to me- the companions took as a form of hoodwinking and began this campaign of paranoia. (IMO)

I'm glad you added (IMO) after that statement. When will you stop attacking the family of Luke Miller, or the two people who were with him on that holiday with your insistence that it was an accident? Not until the family has received the evidence they require from the Thai authorities and the inquest into Luke's death has been fully concluded in the UK will they have a better idea of what really caused his death. However, according to the family, the cause of death was not drowning. This information will have come from the U.K. autopsy report. The inquest into Luke's death has been opened and adjourned to later date, as is the norm in the U.K. It cannot be concluded until all the information has been received from the Thai authorities. The entire inquest process can take more than a year.

Attack is a subjective term, why are you " attacking" me I could well ask.

I am merely dissecting this accusation of foul play. I think it is wrong, and I think the motives for the campaign are wrong, and I think a small group like to urge on these wrong accusations for their own campaign of self -promotion in connection with another case, which is also wrong. Dead wrong.

I've really not read anything from the parents that indicates they have not accepted the conclusion of accidental drowning. " A better idea of the cause"? The CoD is already determined - drowning.

There would be an inquest in the UK no matter what the circumstances, that's the law when citizens die overseas- it has nothing to do with suspicions.

That's a way to mis-inform a reader. Make it seem as if because an inquest will be held, UK officials doubt the RTP. Such tactics of misinformation work well on sycophantic group of poor readers, most of which lack critical thinking skills.

My insistence is actually established by a police inquiry. You are the one insisting established facts are not correct.

The post- mortem was clear- CoD, drowning. The police scenario is perfectly valid and I have no doubt if the companions had not been, handled... is a good term for it, they likely would not have been so likely to continue their baseless accusations.

Handled, then stroked, groomed, adored, admired- who wants to give that up?

There's a real effort to control information, to influence opinion, and to put forth scenarios in this case, and the other, that need to be looked at.

Now please answer, if you can (preferably without involving any kind of personal evaluation or attack) what evidence exists that the companions seized upon as proof L Miller was murdered because I'd really like to know.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Moonsterk

[Moonsterk]

Not sure the BBC reported on the Thai post mortem? They quoted a policeman as far as I have seen .........

Luke Miller Thai pool death: Family 'concern' over inquiry:

According to police, Mr Miller's body was found on Friday morning at Sunset Bar on Sairee Beach.

Witnesses and CCTV footage at the bar showed he was there until the early hours of the morning.

But, the security guards who regularly search the pool for lost belongings after parties did not find Mr Miller when they made a search at 05:30 local time. His body was discovered at about 07:20.

His sister Maria said: "There's different answers everywhere, there is nothing set in stone, no actual facts have been displayed... I do have concerns about how it has been dealt with.

"I don't think anyone knows what really went on, but we will find answers and we will get answers."

Police Lt. Col. Napa Senatip, a police investigator on Koh Tao who handled the case, told the BBC that police were not looking further into the case because "the investigation showed no clues signalling that this was a murder", and the autopsy showed that the cause of death was drowning.

Police Lt. Col. Napa Senatip, a police investigator on Koh Tao who handled the case, told the BBC that police were not looking further into the case because "the investigation showed no clues signalling that this was a murder", and the autopsy showed that the cause of death was drowning.

Are you disputing the CoD, or not ?

and ?

what difference does it make what Col Napa says, if they are hiding something he is hardly going to admit it now is he

quoting all this stuff is really pointless - like I said above - you either believe or you don't, who's to say he wasn't beaten up in the bar and thrown into the pool unconscious and drowned, not saying that is what happened - it really depends on the injuries on his body, whether they are consistent with jumping into a pool or getting a serious hiding - I don't know either way but I do find the reports of injuries that are largely unexplained as suspicious

inserting "Jumping in a pool" as a fact instead of a theory police offered.

I think the police version is a little more than that, and involves falling four or five meters off a roof, or vertical wall, ( on his way up, on his way down, or just hanging out on top will likely never be known,) landing on concrete, ending up unconscious, and drowning.

All in all, perfectly reasonable scenario

in your opinion

incidently - the DJ booth is right at the edge of the pool so there is only water below, if he had fallen onto concrete as you suggest perhaps hitting his head - he would have had a serious head injury

anyway you have been posting on this thread for a very long time now to almost manic proportions repeating the same things over and over, you have you thoughts I have mine, I am not going to engage with you further on this topic, I think everything that needs to be said has been said many times over

Well that's you choice to no longer participate, but my question remains unanswered so I'll ask again; Do you dispute the CoD as determined by RTP post-mortem, as quoted by BBC news, to have been drowning ?

Smedly writes; SNIPPET incidently - the DJ booth is right at the edge of the pool so there is only water below, if he had fallen onto concrete as you suggest perhaps hitting his head - he would have had a serious head injury....

^ This is a good example of lousy argument. A deliberate determination of suggested scenarios as fact in order to misinform, mislead and promote a false supposition. (Also known as a blinkered straw man.)

But OK let's look a bit closer . Do we know he did not have a serious head injury?

To go into the conspiracy theory ; If he was murdered, thrown or pushed into a pool, to drown, would he not have had such an injury? Wasn't he " beat to a pulp" as I read N Gissing quoted on... was it the Drummond tabloid blog? ( And just why is she being quoted at this stage? At this point any responsible journalist would only publish what a family member states, preferably a parent at it seems to be an extended clan. ) Do people die from being beat to a pulp without serious head injuries?

I'd think punctured lungs or such, yes, but then why would police make up drowning when it will be so easily proven wrong in the most cursory autopsy? What is to gain?

Of course it was thrown out, later on DM again that "the embalming made any further examination impossible."

What a load.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Moonsterk

[Si Thea01]

Moonsterk, on 26 Feb 2016 - 09:00, said:

Only if he had hit his head, more supposition on your part. He may well have passed out and fell into the water, or a portion of his body hit concrete. Again I'm only offering up scenarios, as I read there were injuries that a drowning did not explain, and which Thai police offered up possible explanations such as above, which then- it seemed to me- the companions took as a form of hoodwinking and began this campaign of paranoia. (IMO)

I also have found out they stayed with Ms Hansen, ( Jack Hansen's mother) and there is someone who would have fed into the demonizing of Thai police - with good reason, too of course.

which then- it seemed to me- the companions took as a form of hoodwinking and began this campaign of paranoia. (IMO)

I'm glad you added (IMO) after that statement. When will you stop attacking the family of Luke Miller, or the two people who were with him on that holiday with your insistence that it was an accident? Not until the family has received the evidence they require from the Thai authorities and the inquest into Luke's death has been fully concluded in the UK will they have a better idea of what really caused his death. However, according to the family, the cause of death was not drowning. This information will have come from the U.K. autopsy report. The inquest into Luke's death has been opened and adjourned to later date, as is the norm in the U.K. It cannot be concluded until all the information has been received from the Thai authorities. The entire inquest process can take more than a year.

Attack is a subjective term, why are you " attacking" me I could well ask.

I am merely dissecting this accusation of foul play. I think it is wrong, and I think the motives for the campaign are wrong, and I think a small group like to urge on these wrong accusations for their own campaign of self -promotion in connection with another case, which is also wrong. Dead wrong.

I've really not read anything from the parents that indicates they have not accepted the conclusion of accidental drowning. " A better idea of the cause"? The CoD is already determined - drowning.

There would be an inquest in the UK no matter what the circumstances, that's the law when citizens die overseas- it has nothing to do with suspicions.

That's a way to mis-inform a reader. Make it seem as if because an inquest will be held, UK officials doubt the RTP. Such tactics of misinformation work well on sycophantic group of poor readers, most of which lack critical thinking skills.

My insistence is actually established by a police inquiry. You are the one insisting established facts are not correct.

The post- mortem was clear- CoD, drowning. The police scenario is perfectly valid and I have no doubt if the companions had not been, handled... is a good term for it, they likely would not have been so likely to continue their baseless accusations.

Handled, then stroked, groomed, adored, admired- who wants to give that up?

There's a real effort to control information, to influence opinion, and to put forth scenarios in this case, and the other, that need to be looked at.

Now please answer, if you can (preferably without involving any kind of personal evaluation or attack) what evidence exists that the companions seized upon as proof L Miller was murdered because I'd really like to know.

I would love to see the answer also. It's funny that when someone has a legitimate and opposing view, how some on here cannot or will not answer, or when they cannot come up with anything substantive, they dismiss you totally like a certain party did the other day, or on occasions offer SA one-liners. I too have had the pleasure of being dismissed in such a manner but not a worry as it shows they lack common sense and that some cannot offer a sound argument hence the regurgitating of the same scenario, day in and day out, week in and week out.

The way they act like attack dogs highlights their inability to look at a subject logically and gives rise to the weak arguments proffered by them in an attempt to shut down the debate when someone comes up with an opposing view.

The lack of analytical and comprehension skills by some is highlighted in many of the responses and one has to wonder why they continue to persist in wanting the incident to be recorded in any way other than what has been established during the Thailand autopsy.

This was carried out at a hospital, by trained medical staff, not the Thai Poice, yet given the way some are posting, if you read between the lines, they are intimating a conspiracy in order to conceal that the death came about by a cause other than drowning. And how did this come about, maybe by reading some unsubstantiated FB page and postings on TVF by someone whose identity cannot be established and from the deceased's so-called friends who allegedly took photos and sprouted to the world that they saw injuries inconsistent with what police allege. Then there are the guessing competitions and rumours being construed as fact. And so it goes on.

As the friends were not present when the incident occurred then what they are sprouting lacks credibility, it is only hearsay. In addition, their attendance at the hospital to take photos also remains uncorroborated, so who knows if they acted as alleged but if someone has unequivocal proof that they did, then I will stand corrected. Further, are they medically qualified to offer a reason as to what is consistent or inconsistent with what they police have stated? Were they present, they say they weren't therefore, any comment offered is insupportable, so how can anyone accept that what they allege is credible and fact?

Edited February 29, 2016 by Si Thea01

[smedly]

I would love to see the answer also. It's funny that when someone has a legitimate and opposing view, how some on here cannot or will not answer, or when they cannot come up with anything substantive, they dismiss you totally like a certain party did the other day,

I will answer anyone when they have a sensible legitimate question to ask and is a poster that has earned my respect, I very seldom respond to demands, hope that clears that up for you and moonsterk

[davidstipek]

I think people are questioning the drowning because how can Police state ASAP "II WAS A CASE OF DROWNING" Did he perform surgery and open lungs, find filled with Chlorinated Pool Water? There has never been any statement in News or from Coroner's Office of this fact... This is only way to prove if in fact Death was caused by such. "Lungs have to be filled with water". Partially filled says corpse was dead before he hit water, filled says he was still alive and breathing when he went into pool! To say victim drowned because they found him floating in Pool? Asinine!!!!

[Si Thea01]

I would love to see the answer also. It's funny that when someone has a legitimate and opposing view, how some on here cannot or will not answer, or when they cannot come up with anything substantive, they dismiss you totally like a certain party did the other day,

I will answer anyone when they have a sensible legitimate question to ask and is a poster that has earned my respect, I very seldom respond to demands, hope that clears that up for you and moonsterk

Here are two questions, one of which you appear to have trouble answering. Do you disagree with the finding of the autopsy held inThailand and if so, why? One has to earn respect from an anonymous TVF poster. Here's another question, please enlighten me how one accomplishes this? Demands, I don't think these are demands, just reasonable, sensible and legitimate questions, wouldn't you say? Oops, another question, sorry.

[smedly]

I would love to see the answer also. It's funny that when someone has a legitimate and opposing view, how some on here cannot or will not answer, or when they cannot come up with anything substantive, they dismiss you totally like a certain party did the other day,

I will answer anyone when they have a sensible legitimate question to ask and is a poster that has earned my respect, I very seldom respond to demands, hope that clears that up for you and moonsterk

Here are two questions, one of which you appear to have trouble answering. Do you disagree with the finding of the autopsy held inThailand and if so, why? One has to earn respect from an anonymous TVF poster. Here's another question, please enlighten me how one accomplishes this? Demands, I don't think these are demands, just reasonable, sensible and legitimate questions, wouldn't you say? Oops, another question, sorry.

you really don't get it do you, make your point pass your opinion and move on, I think I have made it very clear what mine is, plenty of my posts on this thread for you to read over, I have nothing more to add, BTW you are now stalking and baiting

[Si Thea01]

you really don't get it do you, make your point pass your opinion and move on, I think I have made it very clear what mine is, plenty of my posts on this thread for you to read over, I have nothing more to add, BTW you are now stalking and baiting

If I am stalking and baiting you then report me. Yes, I fully understand and you have just proved my point that when the going gets tough, you run and concoct reasons not to answer anything legitimate and reasonable put to you.

[Khun Han]

you really don't get it do you, make your point pass your opinion and move on, I think I have made it very clear what mine is, plenty of my posts on this thread for you to read over, I have nothing more to add, BTW you are now stalking and baiting

If I am stalking and baiting you then report me. Yes, I fully understand and you have just proved my point that when the going gets tough, you run and concoct reasons not to answer anything legitimate and reasonable put to you.

No, I think you'll just find that posters get bored quickly with other posters who have a hectoring manner. It's just something you will have to get used to. The great thing is, you keep getting to award yourself victory in their absence. It's a win, of sorts