Drunk Driving 'a Bigger Problem Than Ads'

[george]

Drunk driving 'a bigger problem than ads'

BANGKOK: -- More than six out of 10 drinkers are right behind stiffer penalties for drinking and driving. They consider it a most serious offence.

However, more than nine out of 10 believed a clampdown on alcohol advertising would have no effect on their drinking habits.

A MarketWise survey polled almost 4,000 people about drinking and proposed action to cut consumption. Six out of every 10 respondents was a drinker. Those questioned were male and female and came from all ages, areas and income brackets.

The company's managing director Daranee Charoen-Rajapark said that 92 per cent of respondents believed advertising had no effect on drinking behaviour but 78 per cent said alcohol manufacturers should make a bigger effort to be socially responsible.

Of the regular drinkers, just 9 per cent considered alcohol ads inspired them to drink more. And just 2 per cent of non-drinkers thought advertising encouraged drinking.

The survey revealed good understanding of alcohol-related laws and regulations.

Moreover, there was genuine concern alcohol manufacturers should educate consumers about responsible drinking and pay for youth education about the dangers of alcohol. According to the results, 65 per cent considered drunk driving the most serious alcohol-related crime.

--The Nation 2006-10-17

[Tony Clifton]

Smells like a surveyed ordered by alcohol manufacturers trying to beat the advert ban.

[britmaveric]

Someone is begining to make some sense.

[chownah]

Do ads affect drinking habits? Of course not..thats why those liquor companies spend billions of baht annually to advertise their products. They know it doesn't work but they do it anyway.......the entire advetisement industry in the world is based on false data....what they do has NO EFFECT on anyone at all!!!!

[Briggsy]

Drunk driving 'a bigger problem than ads'

BANGKOK: -- More than six out of 10 drinkers are right behind stiffer penalties for drinking and driving. They consider it a most serious offence.

However, more than nine out of 10 believed a clampdown on alcohol advertising would have no effect on their drinking habits.

A MarketWise survey polled almost 4,000 people about drinking and proposed action to cut consumption. Six out of every 10 respondents was a drinker. Those questioned were male and female and came from all ages, areas and income brackets.

The company's managing director Daranee Charoen-Rajapark said that 92 per cent of respondents believed advertising had no effect on drinking behaviour but 78 per cent said alcohol manufacturers should make a bigger effort to be socially responsible.

Of the regular drinkers, just 9 per cent considered alcohol ads inspired them to drink more. And just 2 per cent of non-drinkers thought advertising encouraged drinking.

The survey revealed good understanding of alcohol-related laws and regulations.

Moreover, there was genuine concern alcohol manufacturers should educate consumers about responsible drinking and pay for youth education about the dangers of alcohol. According to the results, 65 per cent considered drunk driving the most serious alcohol-related crime.

--The Nation 2006-10-17

I don't entirely agree with the respondents' priorities.

[PhilHarries]

Do ads affect drinking habits? Of course not..thats why those liquor companies spend billions of baht annually to advertise their products. They know it doesn't work but they do it anyway.......the entire advetisement industry in the world is based on false data....what they do has NO EFFECT on anyone at all!!!!

Good point, but then does an advert for Carlsberg make someone go out and drink half a bottle of Chivas before driving home? When did you last see an advert for Lao Khao?

A good start. if they are serious about reducing drunk driving, would be to remove alchohol sales from filling stations. It is so convenient if you want a couple of cold ones on the way home, they even remove the tops for you and provide a straw so you don't spill any. Now that's what I call service, better than any pub or beer bar.

[chanchao]

> Now that's what I call service, better than any pub or beer bar.

Pubs and beer bars will open the bottle for you too, and issue a straw upon request.

[PhilHarries]

> Now that's what I call service, better than any pub or beer bar.

Pubs and beer bars will open the bottle for you too, and issue a straw upon request.

You missed the irony. Drink driving is against the law in Thailand yet the obvious escapes those who make the rules. Banning adverts will not make one iota difference to drink driving. Removing alchohol from filling stations at least removes one source of temptation. OK it's only one source but every driver has to stop at filling stations, they don't have to stop at 7/11's.

[kmart]

Filling stations close at 10pm though.

[Old Man River]

Do ads affect drinking habits? Of course not..thats why those liquor companies spend billions of baht annually to advertise their products. They know it doesn't work but they do it anyway.......the entire advetisement industry in the world is based on false data....what they do has NO EFFECT on anyone at all!!!!

Chownah, the question here is whether advertising causes people to drink who would not have ordinarily started. It is known that ads do impact brand choice of people who already drink. The government claims that baning alcohol ads will save 18% of non drinkers from ever starting. Sounds high and as far as I know, their data has not been released.

[mittheimp]

Do ads affect drinking habits? Of course not..thats why those liquor companies spend billions of baht annually to advertise their products. They know it doesn't work but they do it anyway.......the entire advetisement industry in the world is based on false data....what they do has NO EFFECT on anyone at all!!!!

There is absolutely no evidence that Alcohol advertising increases drinking. Its all to do with choice of brand! Not quite sure why you are rolling on the floor laughing - you should be laughing at your own feeble attempt at sarcasm!

[chownah]

Do ads affect drinking habits? Of course not..thats why those liquor companies spend billions of baht annually to advertise their products. They know it doesn't work but they do it anyway.......the entire advetisement industry in the world is based on false data....what they do has NO EFFECT on anyone at all!!!!

There is absolutely no evidence that Alcohol advertising increases drinking. Its all to do with choice of brand! Not quite sure why you are rolling on the floor laughing - you should be laughing at your own feeble attempt at sarcasm!

You are absolutely 100% wrong. There is incontrovertial data from scientifically sound studies that proves that alcohol advertisement prompts some people to drink more....and these are mostly the people who should probably be drinking less.

Chownah

P.S. I want to be clear about one thing....I think that drinking while driving should be against the law and driving priveliges should be revoked for a short period of time for the first offence and for a long period of time for the second offense and perhaps for a decade (or longer) on the third offense.....my view is that being drunk and driving is like taking a pistol and firing it randomly while walking down the sidewalk.....all of my post concering ads is just to make it clear that they DO add to the problem (no pun intended) of overconsumption of alcohol....without a doubt....proven fact.

Chownah

[chownah]

For instance:

http://www.nber.org/papers/w9676

says (among other things):

"NLSY97 suggest that a compete ban on all alcohol advertising could reduce adolescent monthly alcohol participation by about 24 percent and binge participation by about 42 percent."

NLSY97 means "National Longitudinal Survey of Youth 1997"

Chownah

[chownah]

For instance:

http://www.cspinet.org/booze/alcad.htm

which says (among other things):

"Conclusions From The Effects of the Mass Media on the Use and Abuse of Alcohol, National Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Research Monograph 28, 1995:

[T]he preponderance of the evidence indicates that alcohol advertising stimulates higher consumption of alcohol by both adults and adolescents... It appears to be a contributing factor that increases drinking to a modest degree rather than being a major determinant. (Dr. Charles Atkins, Department of Communications, Michigan State University, p.281)

.............."

Chownah

P.S. I'll stop now...they are not hard to find...there are lots of these references on the internet.

Chownah

Edited October 17, 2006 by chownah

[Thaddeus]

The only problem I have with "incontrovertial data from scientifically sound studies" is that it tends to be generated by people with a point to prove.

I'm not saying that advertising doesn't increase consumption, I just don't think that the effect is as high as some people would think it is.

(90% of Statistics are made up )

[chownah]

I'm not saying that advertising doesn't increase consumption, I just don't think that the effect is as high as some people would think it is.

I agree completely. The effect is not as high as some people would think it is....and.....it is higher than some people think it is.

Chownah

Edited October 17, 2006 by chownah

[Unknown]

However, more than nine out of 10 believed a clampdown on alcohol advertising would have no effect on their drinking habits.

That's most probably true, most people do not drink because of advertisement, even young people.

And it is also true that drunk driving kills a lot of people in Thailand and should be far more controlled than it is now.

But well, do not hold your breath...

[Thaddeus]

However, more than nine out of 10 believed a clampdown on alcohol advertising would have no effect on their drinking habits.

That's most probably true, most people do not drink because of advertisement, even young people.

And it is also true that drunk driving kills a lot of people in Thailand and should be far more controlled than it is now.

But well, do not hold your breath...

Are there any figures anywhere that show how many fatal traffic accidents do involve inebriated drivers (I don't have much faith in stats, but you get a general feel)

Around these parts there aren't that many people (Thais) that drive under the influence, they go home and then have a couple (yeah right)..... they are just incredibly bad drivers, all the time.

And just to add another little factor into the equation, and this is going to sound really bad, quite a few fatal accidents don't start out fatal, but a funeral is cheaper than hospital bills.

[Unknown]

Around these parts there aren't that many people (Thais) that drive under the influence, they go home and then have a couple (yeah right)..... they are just incredibly bad drivers, all the time.

I think you forget the motorbike drivers, Thaddeus.

Who are the ones who usually get killed under the influence...

Edited October 17, 2006 by Unknown

[Thaddeus]

Around these parts there aren't that many people (Thais) that drive under the influence, they go home and then have a couple (yeah right)..... they are just incredibly bad drivers, all the time.

I think you forget the motorbike drivers, Thaddeus.

Who are the ones who usually get killed under the influence...

I hadn't forgotten them, in the more rural areas, two wheels or four makes very little difference.

There have been few deaths close to me recently, they involved knives, guns and fists.... not a wheel in sight.

The last motoring fatality was two young lads (13 or 14 years old) riding far too quickly and hitting a signpost.

The one before that was a farang, sober, lost it on a red road, put the car into a ditch upside down, he drowned.

Before that, two Toyota Mini-Buses ploughed into each other, both overtaking motorcys on a blind hill.

I have this deep seated suspicion that most fatal accidents are caused by bad driving, alcohol may add to the number, but it isn't the main root cause.

[chownah]

I think drinking actually makes you a better driver....it improves your judgement, sharpens your senses, and improves your reaction time!

:cheesy::cheesy::cheesy:

[PhilHarries]

There are people who drink (alchohol) and people who don't

There are people who drink a little occasionally, those that drink moderately and those who drink heavily.

There are people who never drive if they've had a drink, those who will moderate their intake if they are to drive afterwards and there are those who drink then drive regardless.

I can not see, despite all the statistics to the contrary, the connection between advertising and drink driving. People who are going to drink and drive will do so whether there are adverts for booze or not.

Statiticians are employed to rearrange the facts from a sample survey to suit their purposes. The answers and hence results of survey are heavily dependant on how the questions are put, the age group asked and the location. A survey of 20 - 30 year olds in Bangkok is hardly likely to even slightly resemble one of 50 - 60 year olds in Nong Khai. Blindly quoting statistics without knowing the demographics is meaningless.

There are lies, ###### lies and statistics.

[chownah]

PhilHarries,

Maybe the question shouldn't be whether adverts make people drink and drive....maybe the question should be do adverts increase consumption and does this increased consumption then push more people into the over the edge category of driving when not fully capable. There seem to be studies that indicate that for adolescents at least there is strong evidence that adverts tend to influence them to start drinking younger and to binge drink....the evidence for adults is not as clear since some studies show an effect and some do not.

Chownah

P.S. There was a statistician once who said that "there are idiots, dammed idiots, and idiots that try to make their idiocy look like a virtue."

Chownah

[Old Man River]

I can not see, despite all the statistics to the contrary, the connection between advertising and drink driving. People who are going to drink and drive will do so whether there are adverts for booze or not.

I couldn't agree more with this comment. I have no doubt that advertising can lead young people, who are impressionistic, to try alcohol for the first time. However, the government was calling for a ban on all alcohol ads plus raising the legal age to drink to 25. As such, the impact of advertising would have to be on mature adults aged 25 and over. OK, maybe at 21, some people are still immature, but by the time they reach 25 they are out of school and working. At this point, if they are going to over imbibe and drive, they are going to do this anyway.

Stiffer penalites on drunk driving will help. I have been in an accident in Bangkok where my car was plowed into by a very drunk driver. The driver said his insurance would cover all damages, which it did, but when I reported him to a passing police officer, the policeman said there was no problem because the other driver admitted it was his fault and would cover the damage. There was absolutely no penalties, from the police point of view, for this guy to be drunk while driving. This was during Songkran, despite the annual messages that police won't tolerate drunk driving.

On drunk driving, the issue isn't advertising of alcoholic beverages, but rather penalities for drunk drivers.

[chownah]

I couldn't agree more with this comment. I have no doubt that advertising can lead young people, who are impressionistic, to try alcohol for the first time. However, the government was calling for a ban on all alcohol ads plus raising the legal age to drink to 25. As such, the impact of advertising would have to be on mature adults aged 25 and over.

First, the law is not to raise the drinking age to 25, it is to raise the age where you can buy alcohol to 25.

Second, what does the legal drinking age have to do with who is affected by advertisements...everyone who sees an advertisement can be affected by it.....and....just because the legal drinking age is xx doesn't mean that people under the age of xx won't drink.....many of them will........so I don't see what sort of logic has led you to say, " As such, the impact of advertising would have to be on mature adults aged 25 and over." Also, there studies which show that ads influence some adolescents to start drinking earlier and to binge drink....impressionable adolescents who will develop drinking habits that will likely last into their adult years.

Chownah

[PhilHarries]

[Maybe the question shouldn't be whether adverts make people drink and drive....maybe the question should be do adverts increase consumption and does this increased consumption then push more people into the over the edge category of driving when not fully capable.

Chownah,

You have a point but, as I see it, this thread is about the question "Is drunk driving a worse social ill than advertisments for alchohol?"

I guess the simplistic answer is "Drunk drivers kill people, adverts don't". Against that you could argue that if an advert causes a person who doesn't normally drink to stop for a few on the way home and then has an accident and kills someone the advert is the root cause. But who, in a lot of countries, goes to jail the driver or the advertiser? As has been said before the major thrust should be effective enforcement coupled with good education. This has worked, to a point, in many countries worldwide but you still have the persistant offenders.

Thinking about this the only, very tenuous, connection is that advertising, especially if portraying drinking as sexy or virile, encourages youngsters to start drinking earlier before the adult control functions are formed. Most people start drinking before they start driving thus if this early drinking suppresses the control functions this carries over into adult life and the person has lost the ability to appreciate cause and effects.

I think we need a trickcyclist.

"Anyone who goes to see a psychiatrist needs their head examined."

[chownah]

Seems that alot of people here seem to think that the only problem with drunkness is driving. Alcoholism causes alot of problems other than impairment while driving. But then maybe I'm wrong here and encouraging adolescents to binge drink is just fine as along as they don't drive while drunk.....what do you think?

Chownah

[mrt273nva]

"Ahh beer, the cause of and solution to all of lifes problems"

- Homer Simpson

[Tony Clifton]

I have this deep seated suspicion that most fatal accidents are caused by bad driving, alcohol may add to the number, but it isn't the main root cause.

I strongly believe in that as well. Not 5 minutes go by when one sits behind the wheel and sees some crazy life threatening manoeuvre.

[Old Man River]

I couldn't agree more with this comment. I have no doubt that advertising can lead young people, who are impressionistic, to try alcohol for the first time. However, the government was calling for a ban on all alcohol ads plus raising the legal age to drink to 25. As such, the impact of advertising would have to be on mature adults aged 25 and over.

First, the law is not to raise the drinking age to 25, it is to raise the age where you can buy alcohol to 25.

Second, what does the legal drinking age have to do with who is affected by advertisements...everyone who sees an advertisement can be affected by it.....and....just because the legal drinking age is xx doesn't mean that people under the age of xx won't drink.....many of them will........so I don't see what sort of logic has led you to say, " As such, the impact of advertising would have to be on mature adults aged 25 and over." Also, there studies which show that ads influence some adolescents to start drinking earlier and to binge drink....impressionable adolescents who will develop drinking habits that will likely last into their adult years.

Chownah

Chownah,

OK, we will continue to disagree on the impact of ads on mature adults vis a vis the impact on impressionistic adolescents. I am not as quick to jump to the conclusion that advertising will cause mature adults to abuse alcohol and drive while drunk until credible proof is presented to the contrary. Too date, I haven't seen it. This is the problem I have with these laws being enacted. They are based on some people's personal opinions and being thrust on everyone as if all of a sudden their opinions are fact.