Problems ahead?

[sebastion]

They've been repo'ing houses and selling them for years, quiet often see them advertised in the banks and on their web sites,nothing new about it.

It's new they are putting banners on gates.

Never seen that before.

Desperation.

Edited January 15, 2016 by sebastion

[Goldieinkathu]

Do you live on Phuket?

Not sure who you're asking but I've been living in Phuket for 20 years full time. I started this discussion because as I said I can see a marked difference and wonder just how the future is going to be here.

I don't care if Phuket is the richest province or not, I'm worried about where it's going and wondering if the banks are doing the right thing in lending to these huge new projects as I really can't see them working.

I worry about locals ( and I'm not talking about the rich ones) struggling and what social problems it will bring.

I wouldn't want to run back to Europe as they have their own problems, the UK too, I've thought about New Zealand or Australia but as long as it's not been too bad here I've thought better the devil you know.

Often you don't realise what's going on before it's too late, I was hoping with discussion to come to some clearer conclusion.

Most people seem to be glued to their smart phones and not taking any notice of what's going on around them.From my observations things don't look good.

[Goldieinkathu]

They've been repo'ing houses and selling them for years, quiet often see them advertised in the banks and on their web sites,nothing new about it.

True, but are the numbers increasing?

I guess it's time for a nice long friendly chat with the bank manager.

[Fookhaht]

"The more you use your CreditCard ....is the price you pay for selling away your privacy.

I pay cash.

Something like I remember hearing my grandfather say sometime in the mid-20th century.

Welcome to the 21st-century.

...which started 16 years ago

Edited January 15, 2016 by Fookhaht

[Goldieinkathu]

The banks are repossessing many houses from Thais.

I was in land and house yesterday looking for a house and banks have signs on the houses selling it themselves.

I called and asked the price for this repo. 7.2 million baht!!!! This house was in disrepair and over grown with weeds yet it is 1.8 million more expensive than other resales in the same compound that are immaculate.

Its a sign of the times ahead. The banks are over extended and can't liquidate.

Maybe the banks lent too much in the first place and this is what they are owed?

90% loans have been common here.

If the tenant ( I won't call them owner as they have mortgages) lives in the house for a couple of years then can't pay, then it drags on before the bank can force them out, in the mean time the house falls into disrepair then this is what you'll find.

I can't see the banks wanting to drop prices or even being able to drop prices.

[sebastion]

The banks are repossessing many houses from Thais.

I was in land and house yesterday looking for a house and banks have signs on the houses selling it themselves.

I called and asked the price for this repo. 7.2 million baht!!!! This house was in disrepair and over grown with weeds yet it is 1.8 million more expensive than other resales in the same compound that are immaculate.

Its a sign of the times ahead. The banks are over extended and can't liquidate.

Maybe the banks lent too much in the first place and this is what they are owed?

90% loans have been common here.

If the tenant ( I won't call them owner as they have mortgages) lives in the house for a couple of years then can't pay, then it drags on before the bank can force them out, in the mean time the house falls into disrepair then this is what you'll find.

I can't see the banks wanting to drop prices or even being able to drop prices.

I asked about this to the lady i called at SCB and she agreed it was over market price but the prices are set by Bangkok.

I guess they are clueless to what the market is like here and think Phuket's streets are paved with gold.

[Goldieinkathu]

The banks are repossessing many houses from Thais.

I was in land and house yesterday looking for a house and banks have signs on the houses selling it themselves.

I called and asked the price for this repo. 7.2 million baht!!!! This house was in disrepair and over grown with weeds yet it is 1.8 million more expensive than other resales in the same compound that are immaculate.

Its a sign of the times ahead. The banks are over extended and can't liquidate.

Maybe the banks lent too much in the first place and this is what they are owed?

90% loans have been common here.

If the tenant ( I won't call them owner as they have mortgages) lives in the house for a couple of years then can't pay, then it drags on before the bank can force them out, in the mean time the house falls into disrepair then this is what you'll find.

I can't see the banks wanting to drop prices or even being able to drop prices.

I asked about this to the lady i called at SCB and she agreed it was over market price but the prices are set by Bangkok.

I guess they are clueless to what the market is like here and think Phuket's streets are paved with gold.

Prices are set by Bangkok, I wonder what she means by that?

To be honest, for years the streets here have been paved with gold for Thais. The fall in the Baht was in a strange way the best thing that ever happened, Phuket was booming.

I expect that with oil prices being low now Thailand will have room for another interest rate cut but is it too late anyway?

This government needs investment so that won't help. - it all gives me a headache.

All we need is capital controls in the West then how's life going to be

[sebastion]

The banks are repossessing many houses from Thais.

I was in land and house yesterday looking for a house and banks have signs on the houses selling it themselves.

I called and asked the price for this repo. 7.2 million baht!!!! This house was in disrepair and over grown with weeds yet it is 1.8 million more expensive than other resales in the same compound that are immaculate.

Its a sign of the times ahead. The banks are over extended and can't liquidate.

Maybe the banks lent too much in the first place and this is what they are owed?

90% loans have been common here.

If the tenant ( I won't call them owner as they have mortgages) lives in the house for a couple of years then can't pay, then it drags on before the bank can force them out, in the mean time the house falls into disrepair then this is what you'll find.

I can't see the banks wanting to drop prices or even being able to drop prices.

I asked about this to the lady i called at SCB and she agreed it was over market price but the prices are set by Bangkok.

I guess they are clueless to what the market is like here and think Phuket's streets are paved with gold.

Prices are set by Bangkok, I wonder what she means by that?

To be honest, for years the streets here have been paved with gold for Thais. The fall in the Baht was in a strange way the best thing that ever happened, Phuket was booming.

I expect that with oil prices being low now Thailand will have room for another interest rate cut but is it too late anyway?

This government needs investment so that won't help. - it all gives me a headache.

All we need is capital controls in the West then how's life going to be

She was talking about head office in Ratchayotin. They set the prices based on their assessment and these ladies at SCB Phuket just attend to the reposessed properties.

So the people setting the prices don't know the area, they are clueless to the market.

[Goldieinkathu]

@ Sebastian.

They're not concerned about the market, that's the point, they're concerned at how much is on their balance sheets. Supply and demand have nothing to do with anything.

Now where have I heard this before .

So back to the original question, are the banks stupid to lend money to the people wanting to build big mega malls?

Will they go forward knowing what they know or will they continue?

How will they recoup their money? If peak credit has been reached then how will people have extra to go shopping?

Maybe this should be moved to the money forum but I was really looking at it from a Phuket perspective.

[Goldieinkathu]

Sorry I meant to say "will they go forward knowing what they know or will they stop"

[sebastion]

@ Sebastian.

They're not concerned about the market, that's the point, they're concerned at how much is on their balance sheets. Supply and demand have nothing to do with anything.

Now where have I heard this before .

So back to the original question, are the banks stupid to lend money to the people wanting to build big mega malls?

Will they go forward knowing what they know or will they continue?

How will they recoup their money? If peak credit has been reached then how will people have extra to go shopping?

Maybe this should be moved to the money forum but I was really looking at it from a Phuket perspective.

It has got to the point where they will have a housing bubble much like the U.S had.

Too many loans that people can't repay and the bank is stuck with toxic assets that nobody wants.

Do you think the government in Thailand would bail the banks out? I don't think so. Too big to fail comes to mind.

[Goldieinkathu]

@ Sebastian.

They're not concerned about the market, that's the point, they're concerned at how much is on their balance sheets. Supply and demand have nothing to do with anything.

Now where have I heard this before .

So back to the original question, are the banks stupid to lend money to the people wanting to build big mega malls?

Will they go forward knowing what they know or will they continue?

How will they recoup their money? If peak credit has been reached then how will people have extra to go shopping?

Maybe this should be moved to the money forum but I was really looking at it from a Phuket perspective.

It has got to the point where they will have a housing bubble much like the U.S had.

Too many loans that people can't repay and the bank is stuck with toxic assets that nobody wants.

Do you think the government in Thailand would bail the banks out? I don't think so. Too big to fail comes to mind.

If only I had a crystal ball . I've no idea, that's the thing,I was hoping someone will enlighten me on this forum .

Maybe the banks and the governments are as one? Maybe the point is to own all the toxic assets as you put it.Converting funny money into real assets. Aren't the banks not the biggest land lords in the US now?Loan out to people who can't pay then take back the assets ( real stuff) that's how I see it for what it's worth.

As I said it gives me a headache. I just want to live a life somewhere safe not somewhere where people have become so desperate that they start doing crazy things. The quicker Branson gets these trips to the moon the better , not that I could afford it .

I worry for my family here.

[beechbum]

They've been repo'ing houses and selling them for years, quiet often see them advertised in the banks and on their web sites,nothing new about it.

It's new they are putting banners on gates.

Never seen that before.

Desperation.

No it's not new at all, Siam comm have been doing that for years.

[LivinginKata]

They've been repo'ing houses and selling them for years, quiet often see them advertised in the banks and on their web sites,nothing new about it.

Exactly - I well remember the previous global downturn 20 years ago. Back then the Thai banks were loaning far too money as Thailand was booming. The banks pulled back from loaning after that bust period.

[seedy]

one Troll / Flaming post removed

[beechbum]

Do you live on Phuket?

Not sure who you're asking but I've been living in Phuket for 20 years full time. I started this discussion because as I said I can see a marked difference and wonder just how the future is going to be here.

I don't care if Phuket is the richest province or not, I'm worried about where it's going and wondering if the banks are doing the right thing in lending to these huge new projects as I really can't see them working.

I worry about locals ( and I'm not talking about the rich ones) struggling and what social problems it will bring.

I wouldn't want to run back to Europe as they have their own problems, the UK too, I've thought about New Zealand or Australia but as long as it's not been too bad here I've thought better the devil you know.

Often you don't realise what's going on before it's too late, I was hoping with discussion to come to some clearer conclusion.

Most people seem to be glued to their smart phones and not taking any notice of what's going on around them.From my observations things don't look good.

I was asking NamKangMan

[NamKangMan]

Do you live on Phuket?

Not sure who you're asking but I've been living in Phuket for 20 years full time. I started this discussion because as I said I can see a marked difference and wonder just how the future is going to be here.

I don't care if Phuket is the richest province or not, I'm worried about where it's going and wondering if the banks are doing the right thing in lending to these huge new projects as I really can't see them working.

I worry about locals ( and I'm not talking about the rich ones) struggling and what social problems it will bring.

I wouldn't want to run back to Europe as they have their own problems, the UK too, I've thought about New Zealand or Australia but as long as it's not been too bad here I've thought better the devil you know.

Often you don't realise what's going on before it's too late, I was hoping with discussion to come to some clearer conclusion.

Most people seem to be glued to their smart phones and not taking any notice of what's going on around them.From my observations things don't look good.

I was asking NamKangMan

Yes. I live on the fringe of Patong.

Been here full time for about 2 years. I'm under 50 years of age, so I am a visa runner, therefore, I'm out to neighboring countries every few months.

In recent times, via Pattaya, as friends from Phuket have moved there, and friends who used to holiday on Phuket now holiday in Pattaya.

Why do you ask?

[NamKangMan]

"The more you use your CreditCard ....is the price you pay for selling away your privacy.

I pay cash.

Something like I remember hearing my grandfather say sometime in the mid-20th century.

Welcome to the 21st-century.

...which started 16 years ago

Not sure exactly what you are getting at in your post, but I can assure you, "Big Brother" whether that be corporations and / or Government, have a lot more ways of tracking individuals, and there spending habits, these days.

The easiest surveillance they have is the smartphone we carry around, followed by our credit card / debit card. We freely give this personal information to them

Same with your computer. Data mining is huge. Google for "Edward Snowden interviews" to see how Governments are monitoring their law abiding citizens through mass surveillance. Just typing "that name" has flagged this post somewhere.

All I am saying is, by paying cash, and not by card, I am minimizing my exposure to data collection, and I don't care how many "points" I lose for paying by cash.

This doesn't mean I am dodgy, or have anything to hide, it simply means, if they want to know where and when I buy, and what I eat - they'll have to try harder.

[beechbum]

Do you live on Phuket?

Not sure who you're asking but I've been living in Phuket for 20 years full time. I started this discussion because as I said I can see a marked difference and wonder just how the future is going to be here.

I don't care if Phuket is the richest province or not, I'm worried about where it's going and wondering if the banks are doing the right thing in lending to these huge new projects as I really can't see them working.

I worry about locals ( and I'm not talking about the rich ones) struggling and what social problems it will bring.

I wouldn't want to run back to Europe as they have their own problems, the UK too, I've thought about New Zealand or Australia but as long as it's not been too bad here I've thought better the devil you know.

Often you don't realise what's going on before it's too late, I was hoping with discussion to come to some clearer conclusion.

Most people seem to be glued to their smart phones and not taking any notice of what's going on around them.From my observations things don't look good.

I was asking NamKangMan

Yes. I live on the fringe of Patong.

Been here full time for about 2 years. I'm under 50 years of age, so I am a visa runner, therefore, I'm out to neighboring countries every few months.

In recent times, via Pattaya, as friends from Phuket have moved there, and friends who used to holiday on Phuket now holiday in Pattaya.

Why do you ask?

Just wondering, going by a lot of your posts it sounds like you don't like it here.

[fiddlehead]

Just want to say I was in Central about 5 days ago.
I stopped at Auntie Ann's soft pretzel stand as I usually do, as they come from where I was born and raised and I like the pretzels.
Line was about 8 or 9 people long (longer than I believe I've ever seen it)
And the guy in front of me paid with a credit card.
I used to think that was silly, but I noticed my niece and her friends use the card for just about everything.
Even a coke at the bowling alley.
It's a different generation, I don't try to understand it.
Just wait for my soft pretzel and try not to judge how much money everybody is making and spending.

Traffic sure sucks. I know that.

[NamKangMan]

@ beechbum

What makes you think that?

Do you disagree with my economic forecast for Phuket? If so, I'm happy to hear yours.

Also, I am a visa runner, so I often get to see what's going on in neighboring countries.

Edited January 15, 2016 by NamKangMan

[AJBangkok]

"The more you use your CreditCard ....is the price you pay for selling away your privacy.

I pay cash.

Something like I remember hearing my grandfather say sometime in the mid-20th century.

Welcome to the 21st-century.

...which started 16 years ago

Not sure exactly what you are getting at in your post, but I can assure you, "Big Brother" whether that be corporations and / or Government, have a lot more ways of tracking individuals, and there spending habits, these days.

The easiest surveillance they have is the smartphone we carry around, followed by our credit card / debit card. We freely give this personal information to them

Same with your computer. Data mining is huge. Google for "Edward Snowden interviews" to see how Governments are monitoring their law abiding citizens through mass surveillance. Just typing "that name" has flagged this post somewhere.

All I am saying is, by paying cash, and not by card, I am minimizing my exposure to data collection, and I don't care how many "points" I lose for paying by cash.

This doesn't mean I am dodgy, or have anything to hide, it simply means, if they want to know where and when I buy, and what I eat - they'll have to try harder.

They are trying harder. I 'm sorry for going off thread but Have you been following the move in Europe to move to a cashless society? Denmark is virtually cashless since jan 1 and other European countries are moving in the same direction gradually reducing the maximum amount of cash you can use to pay for anything. Governments all over the world are moving in this direction and even Thailand has recently enacted some electronic payment laws originally proposed in early 2015 that will pave the way to moving cashless.

Why? The first answer is governments want to tax everything and by going cashless you have records of every financial transaction . it goes way more deep than though. Think about stopping bank runs, freezing or restricting a name or ID number from the cashless system or even a Cyprus style "bail out" where the government just take the money out of your bank account .

You'd think that in economies where corruption was rampant the governments would be dead against going cashless but there will be global pressure for countries to conform or else get treated like North Korea or Iran.

You may say it will never happen in Thailand but if you do a bit of reading you'll be shocked how fast this has gained traction in Europe .

Edited January 16, 2016 by AJBangkok

[derator01]

Let's stick to the topic, please.

[NamKangMan]

"The more you use your CreditCard ....is the price you pay for selling away your privacy.

I pay cash.

Something like I remember hearing my grandfather say sometime in the mid-20th century.

Welcome to the 21st-century.

...which started 16 years ago

Not sure exactly what you are getting at in your post, but I can assure you, "Big Brother" whether that be corporations and / or Government, have a lot more ways of tracking individuals, and there spending habits, these days.

The easiest surveillance they have is the smartphone we carry around, followed by our credit card / debit card. We freely give this personal information to them

Same with your computer. Data mining is huge. Google for "Edward Snowden interviews" to see how Governments are monitoring their law abiding citizens through mass surveillance. Just typing "that name" has flagged this post somewhere.

All I am saying is, by paying cash, and not by card, I am minimizing my exposure to data collection, and I don't care how many "points" I lose for paying by cash.

This doesn't mean I am dodgy, or have anything to hide, it simply means, if they want to know where and when I buy, and what I eat - they'll have to try harder.

They are trying harder. I 'm sorry for going off thread but Have you been following the move in Europe to move to a cashless society? Denmark is virtually cashless since jan 1 and other European countries are moving in the same direction gradually reducing the maximum amount of cash you can use to pay for anything. Governments all over the world are moving in this direction and even Thailand has recently enacted some electronic payment laws originally proposed in early 2015 that will pave the way to moving cashless.

Why? The first answer is governments want to tax everything and by going cashless you have records of every financial transaction . it goes way more deep than though. Think about stopping bank runs, freezing or restricting a name or ID number from the cashless system or even a Cyprus style "bail out" where the government just take the money out of your bank account .

You'd think that in economies where corruption was rampant the governments would be dead against going cashless but there will be global pressure for countries to conform or else get treated like North Korea or Iran.

You may say it will never happen in Thailand but if you do a bit of reading you'll be shocked how fast this has gained traction in Europe .

A moderator has cautioned to stay on topic, so I will not expand on your post.

I concur with your information.

[Familyaffairs]

You are absolutely right. Central is dead, as is Homeworks across the way At Jungceylon, security guards stamping the parking tickets are gone which upsets the out-gate staff wh argue with drivers about non stamped receipts...gates in are automated. In Pating record nbers of restaurants, bars, guest houses and hotels are for sale.. Karon and Kata; many little restaurants, bars, shops for rent, sale, lease, since Chinese do not patronize these. It hasn't been as bad as this since SARS,,.Gone are the free spending Scandis and other N Europeans, as they don't stay where Chinese do, water and fire don't mix. It is eerily quiet everywhere, despite these super arrival increases. These are comprised almost entirely of Chinese on their zero Baht cattle tours. Tightly controlled, the Chinese run their own restaurants, latex places, souvenir shops, speedboats, dive ops, buses etc. all movements and expenditure tightly controlled. They Raid the breakfast buffet in the morning, and for the rest they spend zero in the hotels... All tours and activities prepaid in China, rest under the table here, the only ones benefitting are the 7-11's catering for their apres-dinner Mama noodles. As a recent hospitality survey recently showed, one of the few times where demand is high, but prices are down, such is the current state of the Phuket market. In my humble opinion,it is better to run at half capacity with good quality tourists, then as we are now. The TAT and gvernment both want huge volumes of cheapo visitors, AND quality tourists at the same time. Those don't go hand in hand.,,.Choices need to be made.,..

[NamKangMan]

You are absolutely right. Central is dead, as is Homeworks across the way At Jungceylon, security guards stamping the parking tickets are gone which upsets the out-gate staff wh argue with drivers about non stamped receipts...gates in are automated. In Pating record nbers of restaurants, bars, guest houses and hotels are for sale.. Karon and Kata; many little restaurants, bars, shops for rent, sale, lease, since Chinese do not patronize these. It hasn't been as bad as this since SARS,,.Gone are the free spending Scandis and other N Europeans, as they don't stay where Chinese do, water and fire don't mix. It is eerily quiet everywhere, despite these super arrival increases. These are comprised almost entirely of Chinese on their zero Baht cattle tours. Tightly controlled, the Chinese run their own restaurants, latex places, souvenir shops, speedboats, dive ops, buses etc. all movements and expenditure tightly controlled. They Raid the breakfast buffet in the morning, and for the rest they spend zero in the hotels... All tours and activities prepaid in China, rest under the table here, the only ones benefitting are the 7-11's catering for their apres-dinner Mama noodles. As a recent hospitality survey recently showed, one of the few times where demand is high, but prices are down, such is the current state of the Phuket market. In my humble opinion,it is better to run at half capacity with good quality tourists, then as we are now. The TAT and gvernment both want huge volumes of cheapo visitors, AND quality tourists at the same time. Those don't go hand in hand.,,.Choices need to be made.,..

"It hasn't been as bad as this since SARS" - SARS was something that was out of the control the Thai Government. They don't have that excuse this time around.

The current state of the tourism industry here was / is a direct result of their mismanagement.

[DrDave]

You are absolutely right. Central is dead, as is Homeworks across the way At Jungceylon, security guards stamping the parking tickets are gone which upsets the out-gate staff wh argue with drivers about non stamped receipts...gates in are automated. In Pating record nbers of restaurants, bars, guest houses and hotels are for sale.. Karon and Kata; many little restaurants, bars, shops for rent, sale, lease, since Chinese do not patronize these. It hasn't been as bad as this since SARS,,.Gone are the free spending Scandis and other N Europeans, as they don't stay where Chinese do, water and fire don't mix. It is eerily quiet everywhere, despite these super arrival increases. These are comprised almost entirely of Chinese on their zero Baht cattle tours. Tightly controlled, the Chinese run their own restaurants, latex places, souvenir shops, speedboats, dive ops, buses etc. all movements and expenditure tightly controlled. They Raid the breakfast buffet in the morning, and for the rest they spend zero in the hotels... All tours and activities prepaid in China, rest under the table here, the only ones benefitting are the 7-11's catering for their apres-dinner Mama noodles. As a recent hospitality survey recently showed, one of the few times where demand is high, but prices are down, such is the current state of the Phuket market. In my humble opinion,it is better to run at half capacity with good quality tourists, then as we are now. The TAT and gvernment both want huge volumes of cheapo visitors, AND quality tourists at the same time. Those don't go hand in hand.,,.Choices need to be made.,..

I think the choice that was made was to go after the low hanging fruit.

It seems to me that a lot more time and effort is required to develop the market for "quality" tourists. And that's just for marketing, which hopefully translates into arrivals. Developing a "quality" experience in Phuket (for once those prized arrivals arrive) is another story, and will most likely never happen unless major shakeups occur.

It appears to me that TAT took the quick and easy route in their quest to increase arrivals. Market to a population that has recently come into disposable income, who is not well-traveled and has low expectations. Entice them with low prices, visions of idyllic beaches and relatively short flight-times. Arrivals are up - job done. Never mind the fact that they've done little to nothing for the Thai economy.

[LivinginKata]

You are absolutely right. Central is dead, as is Homeworks across the way At Jungceylon, security guards stamping the parking tickets are gone which upsets the out-gate staff wh argue with drivers about non stamped receipts...gates in are automated. In Pating record nbers of restaurants, bars, guest houses and hotels are for sale.. Karon and Kata; many little restaurants, bars, shops for rent, sale, lease, since Chinese do not patronize these. It hasn't been as bad as this since SARS,,.Gone are the free spending Scandis and other N Europeans, as they don't stay where Chinese do, water and fire don't mix. It is eerily quiet everywhere, despite these super arrival increases. These are comprised almost entirely of Chinese on their zero Baht cattle tours. Tightly controlled, the Chinese run their own restaurants, latex places, souvenir shops, speedboats, dive ops, buses etc. all movements and expenditure tightly controlled. They Raid the breakfast buffet in the morning, and for the rest they spend zero in the hotels... All tours and activities prepaid in China, rest under the table here, the only ones benefitting are the 7-11's catering for their apres-dinner Mama noodles. As a recent hospitality survey recently showed, one of the few times where demand is high, but prices are down, such is the current state of the Phuket market. In my humble opinion,it is better to run at half capacity with good quality tourists, then as we are now. The TAT and gvernment both want huge volumes of cheapo visitors, AND quality tourists at the same time. Those don't go hand in hand.,,.Choices need to be made.,..

We were in Jungceylon yesterday about 14.30 for lunch. Wife talked about a fish burger at McD but when she saw the price no way. So we ended up a Jeffers which was packed. Staff over whelmed, tables uncleared. I was astonished at how busy, good mix of all ethnic groups. I was not aware that receipts had to have an official stamp for the parking, so I had to pay 20 baht.

The mall was quite busy, about 50% Chinese tourists. The car park was surprisingly full.

[DrDave]

You are absolutely right. Central is dead, as is Homeworks across the way At Jungceylon, security guards stamping the parking tickets are gone which upsets the out-gate staff wh argue with drivers about non stamped receipts...gates in are automated. In Pating record nbers of restaurants, bars, guest houses and hotels are for sale.. Karon and Kata; many little restaurants, bars, shops for rent, sale, lease, since Chinese do not patronize these. It hasn't been as bad as this since SARS,,.Gone are the free spending Scandis and other N Europeans, as they don't stay where Chinese do, water and fire don't mix. It is eerily quiet everywhere, despite these super arrival increases. These are comprised almost entirely of Chinese on their zero Baht cattle tours. Tightly controlled, the Chinese run their own restaurants, latex places, souvenir shops, speedboats, dive ops, buses etc. all movements and expenditure tightly controlled. They Raid the breakfast buffet in the morning, and for the rest they spend zero in the hotels... All tours and activities prepaid in China, rest under the table here, the only ones benefitting are the 7-11's catering for their apres-dinner Mama noodles. As a recent hospitality survey recently showed, one of the few times where demand is high, but prices are down, such is the current state of the Phuket market. In my humble opinion,it is better to run at half capacity with good quality tourists, then as we are now. The TAT and gvernment both want huge volumes of cheapo visitors, AND quality tourists at the same time. Those don't go hand in hand.,,.Choices need to be made.,..

We were in Jungceylon yesterday about 14.30 for lunch. Wife talked about a fish burger at McD but when she saw the price no way. So we ended up a Jeffers which was packed. Staff over whelmed, tables uncleared. I was astonished at how busy, good mix of all ethnic groups. I was not aware that receipts had to have an official stamp for the parking, so I had to pay 20 baht.

The mall was quite busy, about 50% Chinese tourists. The car park was surprisingly full.

I agree that Jungceylon looks to be busy almost every day. After 11am, it can be very difficult to find a motorbike parking place. Looking a little deeper, however, I'm not sure that much revenue is being generated. Yes, the fast food places seem to do well, but the majority of the specialty retail shops seem to be devoid of customers buying anything. Big C is making a killing on dried fruit, seaweed, mama noodles, spice packets and the suitcases needed to cart them back home. Otherwise (and especially given the time of year), I think most of the mall traffic is just there to eat and escape the heat. Every time we've been to see a movie at Jungceylon, there's never been more than 15 or so people in the theatre.

We try to avoid Central Festival, as whenever we go, it's very crowded. Same story, nearly impossible to find a parking space - especially for motorbikes now that they've started construction at the entrance near PowerBuy. I've never taken the time to see if anyone is actually buying anything in the shops, but I suspect it's pretty much the same as Jungceylon - restaurants busy, mall shops dying.

(Special tip for LiK: Mrs Dave had a fish sandwich today at McD's TescoLotus - 49 baht promotion. McD's and KFC do not honor the company promotions at their Jungceylon locations. Also, Jungceylon is pretty good about stamping receipts to receive free parking - you need to ask the security guard at any of the mall entrance/exit doors to stamp it for you.)

[NamKangMan]

@ DrDave and LIK

I shop at Jungceylon regularly, specifically, Big C. The car park is always busy because everyone must have access to a vehicle on Phuket. It's as simple as that.

Yes, I see the multinational fast food chains doing well, but a lot of their profits go offshore to the parent company.

I also notice the sale of the seaweed packets and noodles. The Chinese can't get enough of them. In the same way the Russians used to buy a lot of fresh fruit, before the ruble collapsed.

So, whilst the number of customers going into the center and Big C may look good, it's not being turned into a corresponding revenue and profits remaining in the local economy.