Three executives and four firms indicted in fake G-to-G rice deal

[robblok]

I'm confused. The rice was bought and paid for but it wasn't exported. I'm still having trouble understanding the basis of the crime.

You really don't get it.. or don't want to get it.

GTG deals mean that they could sell the rice cheaper as the rice it was paid for (was only allowed for G2G deals) so the rice was sold for market price.. never exported and resold for the higher price back into the system. Just imagine.. on paper they sell the rice for 5.0000 bt ton. Goverment is taking the loss and then that rice gets resold into the system (they were paying 20.000 a ton) and bam.. profit of 15.000 a ton.

Great scam... and even the commerce minister was involved doing the same. Great party the PTP and the rice program had no corruption

[robblok]

I'm confused. The rice was bought and paid for but it wasn't exported. I'm still having trouble understanding the basis of the crime.

The money existed but the rice didn't, that is the simplest way I can put it

you also have the rotten rice that came in from cambodia bought and paid for through the rice scam

I also remember that (and I stand to be corrected) G2G could be sold at a loss (less than the 15000) the government paid so these guys were paying less for the rice and then resell it at a huge profit.

You were faster.. but that is indeed the scam. Buying the rice of the goverment at market price.. and then not exporting but reselling in Thailand for the 15.000-20.000 the government was offering. Just imagine the profits.

[bangrak]

Great description of the rice scam.

http://world.time.com/2013/07/12/how-thailands-botched-rice-scheme-blew-a-big-hole-in-its-economy/

How Thailand’s Botched Rice Scheme Blew a Big Hole in its Economy

The plan was simple: Thailand’s government would buy rice from local farmers at a generous price, some 50 percent above the market rates. It would hold the rice in warehouses, cutting off exports to the rest of the world. The sudden shortage from the world’s heavyweight champion of rice exports would cause a spike in global prices. Then, payday for the government as it swung open the warehouse doors and sold its stockpile to the world at a premium. Farmers win, the government wins, foreign consumers lose, but then they don’t vote in Thai elections, so what do they matter? The plan was a political no-brainer, except for one problem: Thailand’s government underestimated how quickly the market can kick back at any would-be puppeteers.

When he saw Thailand’s pledge to hike up the price of rice, he says he and virtually every global trader knew how to respond. With the click of a mouse, or sometimes a quick phone call, his traders in Dubai could switch their purchases from Thailand to suppliers in India, Pakistan, Myanmar, or Vietnam. “It doesn’t take five minutes,” he says. “There are no government-to-government contracts. There are only business-to-business contracts. I can buy anything from anywhere.” And it was Thailand’s great misfortune that exactly one week after it slashed exports, India lifted its export ban, flooding the market with 10 millions tons of rice. Rather than orchestrate a price hike, Thailand helplessly stood by as global prices sank.

Those involved in this scam should pay the price. And for good reason.

Concerning your quote: 'The plan was simple...', isn't that one of the most brilliant parts of what was called 'Thaksinomics'...?

[bangrak]

I'm confused. The rice was bought and paid for but it wasn't exported. I'm still having trouble understanding the basis of the crime.

The money existed but the rice didn't, that is the simplest way I can put it

you also have the rotten rice that came in from cambodia bought and paid for through the rice scam

I also remember that (and I stand to be corrected) G2G could be sold at a loss (less than the 15000) the government paid so these guys were paying less for the rice and then resell it at a huge profit.

You were faster.. but that is indeed the scam. Buying the rice of the goverment at market price.. and then not exporting but reselling in Thailand for the 15.000-20.000 the government was offering. Just imagine the profits.

The more so, when I remember well, the G-2-G sales prices were kept secret...!

[mango66]

now that is a biggie.....................seems they are working their way through the money trail and the huge brown stain they have left to follow, I wonder where it will lead to when these guys start to talk, oh and I believe they are HiSo....right

they never will talk or tell where the BIG brown envelopes went,

your live would be very short if you would start to talk !

Dubai is very close in such cases !

[pookiki]

I'm confused. The rice was bought and paid for but it wasn't exported. I'm still having trouble understanding the basis of the crime.

You really don't get it.. or don't want to get it.

GTG deals mean that they could sell the rice cheaper as the rice it was paid for (was only allowed for G2G deals) so the rice was sold for market price.. never exported and resold for the higher price back into the system. Just imagine.. on paper they sell the rice for 5.0000 bt ton. Goverment is taking the loss and then that rice gets resold into the system (they were paying 20.000 a ton) and bam.. profit of 15.000 a ton.

Great scam... and even the commerce minister was involved doing the same. Great party the PTP and the rice program had no corruption

GTG deals mean that they could sell the rice cheaper as the rice it was paid for (was only allowed for G2G deals) so the rice was sold for market price.. never exported and resold for the higher price back into the system.

Your first sentence confuses me as the news article. Nonetheless, I get the jist of what happened from the other threads. However, I wish to note that none of this information was contained in the news article as written.

[CantSpell]

I'm confused. The rice was bought and paid for but it wasn't exported. I'm still having trouble understanding the basis of the crime.

You really don't get it.. or don't want to get it.

GTG deals mean that they could sell the rice cheaper as the rice it was paid for (was only allowed for G2G deals) so the rice was sold for market price.. never exported and resold for the higher price back into the system. Just imagine.. on paper they sell the rice for 5.0000 bt ton. Goverment is taking the loss and then that rice gets resold into the system (they were paying 20.000 a ton) and bam.. profit of 15.000 a ton.

Great scam... and even the commerce minister was involved doing the same. Great party the PTP and the rice program had no corruption

GTG deals mean that they could sell the rice cheaper as the rice it was paid for (was only allowed for G2G deals) so the rice was sold for market price.. never exported and resold for the higher price back into the system.

Your first sentence confuses me as the news article. Nonetheless, I get the jist of what happened from the other threads. However, I wish to note that none of this information was contained in the news article as written.

What I think he meant to say is:

- They could buy at a very low price from government stock claiming G2G deal (Let's say 5K per ton)

- Resell it in G2G deal higher than purchased but lower than paid to the farmer with the Government paying the difference (le't say 8k per ton and government paying the difference from budget).

- But it was probably re-sold in the rice scheme 15k per ton.

[trainman34014]

The three that appear to be in big doodoo have now been given the usual notice to get out of town while the going is good. All this crap will die the usual death after being on the 'investigation not yet complete' pile for 20 years. That pile is as high as Doi Inthanon !

[phoenixdoglover]

I'm confused. The rice was bought and paid for but it wasn't exported. I'm still having trouble understanding the basis of the crime.

You really don't get it.. or don't want to get it.

GTG deals mean that they could sell the rice cheaper as the rice it was paid for (was only allowed for G2G deals) so the rice was sold for market price.. never exported and resold for the higher price back into the system. Just imagine.. on paper they sell the rice for 5.0000 bt ton. Goverment is taking the loss and then that rice gets resold into the system (they were paying 20.000 a ton) and bam.. profit of 15.000 a ton.

Great scam... and even the commerce minister was involved doing the same. Great party the PTP and the rice program had no corruption

GTG deals mean that they could sell the rice cheaper as the rice it was paid for (was only allowed for G2G deals) so the rice was sold for market price.. never exported and resold for the higher price back into the system.

Your first sentence confuses me as the news article. Nonetheless, I get the jist of what happened from the other threads. However, I wish to note that none of this information was contained in the news article as written.

What I think he meant to say is:

- They could buy at a very low price from government stock claiming G2G deal (Let's say 5K per ton)

- Resell it in G2G deal higher than purchased but lower than paid to the farmer with the Government paying the difference (le't say 8k per ton and government paying the difference from budget).

- But it was probably re-sold in the rice scheme 15k per ton.

I think you are speculating, as are other members here.

Names have been named. A crime has allegedly occurred. The parameters f the crime are not described, except by using labels, such as corruption, scam, G2G scheme, etc.

Again, either the Thai press is falling down on the job, or the prosecuting arms (and NACC) are being less than forthright, or both.

But this type of "spotty" information and glossing over he details is all too common in the articles we read here. I think it is a major reason we argue so much. Everyone fills in the gaps using whatever they have in mind, accurate or not.

[Baerboxer]

"there is a problem of notifying them about the charges against them because they are living in China."

That's what chinese do - live in China!

Yes, China is so farrrr away and Thailand has no communication technology, mail service or embassy that can notify the chinese of their charges.

There is an extradiction treaty between Thailand and China. USE IT. Charge the chinese suspects, issue arrest warrants and request extradiction. The chinese government afterall is very big now on stopping corruption in their government. I'm sure they will be anxious to assist Thailand.

Does pose a judiciary dilemma whether you can convict anyone when the accomplices of the case are not found and formally charged. This becoming a judiciary farce.

Ridiculous comment Eric, even by your standards.

We can only charge all the accomplices or none? What law school did you go to?

[Baerboxer]

GTG deals mean that they could sell the rice cheaper as the rice it was paid for (was only allowed for G2G deals) so the rice was sold for market price.. never exported and resold for the higher price back into the system.

Your first sentence confuses me as the news article. Nonetheless, I get the jist of what happened from the other threads. However, I wish to note that none of this information was contained in the news article as written.

What I think he meant to say is:

- They could buy at a very low price from government stock claiming G2G deal (Let's say 5K per ton)

- Resell it in G2G deal higher than purchased but lower than paid to the farmer with the Government paying the difference (le't say 8k per ton and government paying the difference from budget).

- But it was probably re-sold in the rice scheme 15k per ton.

I think you are speculating, as are other members here.

Names have been named. A crime has allegedly occurred. The parameters f the crime are not described, except by using labels, such as corruption, scam, G2G scheme, etc.

Again, either the Thai press is falling down on the job, or the prosecuting arms (and NACC) are being less than forthright, or both.

But this type of "spotty" information and glossing over he details is all too common in the articles we read here. I think it is a major reason we argue so much. Everyone fills in the gaps using whatever they have in mind, accurate or not.

What's hard to understand. They bought the rice from the government at the special low export only price. Then committed fraud and sold the rice on the home market, pocketing the difference. Same fraud the former commerce minister and his cronies up for.

Wasn't Arisman's wife's firm involved somewhere in the fictitious export deals?

[phoenixdoglover]

GTG deals mean that they could sell the rice cheaper as the rice it was paid for (was only allowed for G2G deals) so the rice was sold for market price.. never exported and resold for the higher price back into the system.

Your first sentence confuses me as the news article. Nonetheless, I get the jist of what happened from the other threads. However, I wish to note that none of this information was contained in the news article as written.

What I think he meant to say is:

- They could buy at a very low price from government stock claiming G2G deal (Let's say 5K per ton)

- Resell it in G2G deal higher than purchased but lower than paid to the farmer with the Government paying the difference (le't say 8k per ton and government paying the difference from budget).

- But it was probably re-sold in the rice scheme 15k per ton.

I think you are speculating, as are other members here.

Names have been named. A crime has allegedly occurred. The parameters f the crime are not described, except by using labels, such as corruption, scam, G2G scheme, etc.

Again, either the Thai press is falling down on the job, or the prosecuting arms (and NACC) are being less than forthright, or both.

But this type of "spotty" information and glossing over he details is all too common in the articles we read here. I think it is a major reason we argue so much. Everyone fills in the gaps using whatever they have in mind, accurate or not.

What's hard to understand. They bought the rice from the government at the special low export only price. Then committed fraud and sold the rice on the home market, pocketing the difference. Same fraud the former commerce minister and his cronies up for.

Wasn't Arisman's wife's firm involved somewhere in the fictitious export deals?

Proving my point. You gleaned these impressions from somewhere. But not from the current article. How good is your memory?

[Skywalker69]

now that is a biggie.....................seems they are working their way through the money trail and the huge brown stain they have left to follow, I wonder where it will lead to when these guys start to talk, oh and I believe they are HiSo....right

Nice comment.

I hope it leads to the next circle of involvement, example the very complicit transport companies all part of a specific scheme scam, hopefully it will all be revealed soon.

Wonder how Arisman and his wife got the money needed to start an airliner company?

[Skywalker69]

I still don't understand. Was rice sold and paid for ? Is the crime because it was sold at a loss

and then recycled back into the rice pledging scheme/scam. I really am quite confused as to

what happened and what the crime was.

The G2G deal was a hoax.

[halloween]

Does pose a judiciary dilemma whether you can convict anyone when the accomplices of the case are not found and formally charged. This becoming a judiciary farce.

BS. Can you give one example where a court case has failed because not all the accomplices were available for prosecution?

[robblok]

I think you are speculating, as are other members here.

Names have been named. A crime has allegedly occurred. The parameters f the crime are not described, except by using labels, such as corruption, scam, G2G scheme, etc.

Again, either the Thai press is falling down on the job, or the prosecuting arms (and NACC) are being less than forthright, or both.

But this type of "spotty" information and glossing over he details is all too common in the articles we read here. I think it is a major reason we argue so much. Everyone fills in the gaps using whatever they have in mind, accurate or not.

What's hard to understand. They bought the rice from the government at the special low export only price. Then committed fraud and sold the rice on the home market, pocketing the difference. Same fraud the former commerce minister and his cronies up for.

Wasn't Arisman's wife's firm involved somewhere in the fictitious export deals?

Proving my point. You gleaned these impressions from somewhere. But not from the current article. How good is your memory?

That is the problem our memory is good while the red members like to forget this corruption. There were quite a few articles about this part of the corruption and how the government itself was involved. This blows YL her claims right out of the water of no corruption and it was even done by her commerce minister.

[craigt3365]

What's hard to understand. They bought the rice from the government at the special low export only price. Then committed fraud and sold the rice on the home market, pocketing the difference. Same fraud the former commerce minister and his cronies up for.

Wasn't Arisman's wife's firm involved somewhere in the fictitious export deals?

Proving my point. You gleaned these impressions from somewhere. But not from the current article. How good is your memory?

If you read the articles I linked to, you'd see Arisman's wife mentioned. She was intimately involved in this scam.

[craigt3365]

Does pose a judiciary dilemma whether you can convict anyone when the accomplices of the case are not found and formally charged. This becoming a judiciary farce.

BS. Can you give one example where a court case has failed because not all the accomplices were available for prosecution?

The Red Bull case?

[Skywalker69]

What's hard to understand. They bought the rice from the government at the special low export only price. Then committed fraud and sold the rice on the home market, pocketing the difference. Same fraud the former commerce minister and his cronies up for.

Wasn't Arisman's wife's firm involved somewhere in the fictitious export deals?

Proving my point. You gleaned these impressions from somewhere. But not from the current article. How good is your memory?

If you read the articles I linked to, you'd see Arisman's wife mentioned. She was intimately involved in this scam.

And now she and Arisman own a airline company.

[phoenixdoglover]

I think you are speculating, as are other members here.

Names have been named. A crime has allegedly occurred. The parameters f the crime are not described, except by using labels, such as corruption, scam, G2G scheme, etc.

Again, either the Thai press is falling down on the job, or the prosecuting arms (and NACC) are being less than forthright, or both.

But this type of "spotty" information and glossing over he details is all too common in the articles we read here. I think it is a major reason we argue so much. Everyone fills in the gaps using whatever they have in mind, accurate or not.

What's hard to understand. They bought the rice from the government at the special low export only price. Then committed fraud and sold the rice on the home market, pocketing the difference. Same fraud the former commerce minister and his cronies up for.

Wasn't Arisman's wife's firm involved somewhere in the fictitious export deals?

Proving my point. You gleaned these impressions from somewhere. But not from the current article. How good is your memory?

That is the problem our memory is good while the red members like to forget this corruption. There were quite a few articles about this part of the corruption and how the government itself was involved. This blows YL her claims right out of the water of no corruption and it was even done by her commerce minister.

If the Commerce Minister was part of this as alleged, why would he let YL into the conspiracy.? Wouldn't it be more likely he would hide it? You don't normally share your corrupt plans with your boss.

A lot of people would like to paint the corruption in the rice scheme as some sort of top down thing. I think it much more likely the corruption was born out of a combination of incompetence and negligence. The scheme itself, with its huge price disparities, opened up the opportunity for ill profit. It didn't take coaxing from the top level to make it happen.

This is my take anyway.

Edited January 15, 2016 by phoenixdoglover

[ableguy]

I'm confused. The rice was bought and paid for but it wasn't exported. I'm still having trouble understanding the basis of the crime.

The same rice never moved and was sold back to the state at fifteen thousand a ton probably bought for five , at the time they said it was a state secret what the Chinese paid for it.

[robblok]

I think you are speculating, as are other members here.

Names have been named. A crime has allegedly occurred. The parameters f the crime are not described, except by using labels, such as corruption, scam, G2G scheme, etc.

Again, either the Thai press is falling down on the job, or the prosecuting arms (and NACC) are being less than forthright, or both.

But this type of "spotty" information and glossing over he details is all too common in the articles we read here. I think it is a major reason we argue so much. Everyone fills in the gaps using whatever they have in mind, accurate or not.

What's hard to understand. They bought the rice from the government at the special low export only price. Then committed fraud and sold the rice on the home market, pocketing the difference. Same fraud the former commerce minister and his cronies up for.

Wasn't Arisman's wife's firm involved somewhere in the fictitious export deals?

Proving my point. You gleaned these impressions from somewhere. But not from the current article. How good is your memory?

That is the problem our memory is good while the red members like to forget this corruption. There were quite a few articles about this part of the corruption and how the government itself was involved. This blows YL her claims right out of the water of no corruption and it was even done by her commerce minister.

If the Commerce Minister was part of this as alleged, why would he let YL into the conspiracy.? Wouldn't it be more likely he would hide it? You don't normally share your corrupt plans with your boss.

A lot of people would like to paint the corruption in the rice scheme as some sort of top down thing. I think it much more likely the corruption was born out of a combination of incompetence and negligence. The scheme itself, with its huge price disparities, opened up the opportunity for ill profit. It didn't take coaxing from the top level to make it happen.

This is my take anyway.

Good take.. only YL as chair of the rice program said it was free of corruption and was responsible for it. They are now putting her on trial for incompetence and negligence. That will be proven easily, not putting 800 billion in the countries budget but saying it was free of cost is the biggest negligence I have seen in any budgeting of any government so far.

It just goes against all accounting rules and the only reason hiding such a cost and keeping it off budget is to hide failure or not wanting the expenditure on the budget as then she had to cut other projects (there is only so much money in a countries budget) This was around 200 billion a year.. the same amount that is going to the health budget in a year.. so its huge.

[scorecard]

I think you are speculating, as are other members here.

Names have been named. A crime has allegedly occurred. The parameters f the crime are not described, except by using labels, such as corruption, scam, G2G scheme, etc.

Again, either the Thai press is falling down on the job, or the prosecuting arms (and NACC) are being less than forthright, or both.

But this type of "spotty" information and glossing over he details is all too common in the articles we read here. I think it is a major reason we argue so much. Everyone fills in the gaps using whatever they have in mind, accurate or not.

What's hard to understand. They bought the rice from the government at the special low export only price. Then committed fraud and sold the rice on the home market, pocketing the difference. Same fraud the former commerce minister and his cronies up for.

Wasn't Arisman's wife's firm involved somewhere in the fictitious export deals?

Proving my point. You gleaned these impressions from somewhere. But not from the current article. How good is your memory?

That is the problem our memory is good while the red members like to forget this corruption. There were quite a few articles about this part of the corruption and how the government itself was involved. This blows YL her claims right out of the water of no corruption and it was even done by her commerce minister.

If the Commerce Minister was part of this as alleged, why would he let YL into the conspiracy.? Wouldn't it be more likely he would hide it? You don't normally share your corrupt plans with your boss.

A lot of people would like to paint the corruption in the rice scheme as some sort of top down thing. I think it much more likely the corruption was born out of a combination of incompetence and negligence. The scheme itself, with its huge price disparities, opened up the opportunity for ill profit. It didn't take coaxing from the top level to make it happen.

This is my take anyway.

Little doubt that there's quite a gaggle of seriously corrupt no morals folks involved in this - folks who just yearn for a chance to steal in big numbers from the common wealth of all Thais. For many of these filthy immoral thieves corruption is their 24 hour 'occupation'.

Also little doubt they would have no hesitation to steal from each other, try to hide things from each other, etc.

Now would they have the guts to steal from the available pot / the generated pot hoping that they can get away with some proceeds and the paymaster and the puppet didn't know?

Maybe yes. who knows, but IMHO they would think very carefully before they did this, knowing very well if they were caught stealing out of the back door of the paymasters pot they would be in very serious / very dangerous waters.