Police consider prosecuting Koh Tao victim's sister over Thailand criticism

[Isitjustme]

DNA evidence in the Kho Tao Verdict is being openly challenged.

The author is a internationally recognized, well-known, well respected senior barrister (trial lawyer) from Perth.

Open letters to:

(1) the Public Prosecutor of Koh Samui Province

(2) the Thailand Bureau of Laboratory Quality Standards

(3) the Thailand Bureau of Laboratory Accreditation, both part of the Department of Medical Sciences, Ministry of Public Health.

“This finding was made in spite of the following facts [each of which violates the standards of ISO 17025]: the police claimed they had ‘used up’ all the original mixed semen samples; there were no chain of custody documents in evidence; there were inadequate case notes; no statistical analysis was performed; hand-written changes were made to documents without explanation; a used condom was not made available to the defense, and stamps were not present on documents."

“There was no reference in the judgement as to when the laboratory obtained the accreditation, the extent of the accreditation or which body gave the accreditation.”

The three recipients are asked who accredited the laboratories for ISO 17025 in relation to human DNA testing and matching, and the scope of the accreditation.

The author sets forth the time honored principal that it must be “shown that the DNA testing was carried out in accordance with standards that allow the defense team to verify the test results and conclusions.” AND that the Courts of Justice be made fully aware of the extent of accreditation (or non-accreditation) of the laboratories.”

I hope the defence are able to make better use of Ms Taupin and her extensive knowledge in the appeal. What she writes makes so much sense even to the uninitiated like me.

Only a deeply embedded shill/troll/apologist for the prosecutors could read her statement and yet still be blinkered to what are clearly facts of international law.

The dna "report" isn't worth the paper it was scribbled/crossed out/amended/disfigured/altered/uncorroborated on!

[TheLobster]

Just to note that the only person who on ThaiVisa said that he was at the AC Bar the night in question, who would know the (person of influence) on sight, and said that, at least for the time he was at the bar, did not see the (person of influence), was hooted by persons on here for so posting.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/838898-koh-tao-trial-opens-for-2-accused-of-killing-british-tourists/page-185#entry9660041

Hardly credible though, 7 posts member since when and how do you know it is a he?

Again misdirection

[farcanell]

I edited out the top few thread items because I had a message from the system in read, saying that to many threads were being wuoted... Not to hide anything.

Then the system went ahead and added the deletions to the end anyway, you may try, but it seems winning is often elusive.

Is this English?

Fair question, I suppose.

Transpose read with red, and wuoted with quoted, then I believe that we are using English, or at least, the American version of it

If that doesn't help your understanding, nothing will

[Khun Han]

DNA evidence in the Kho Tao Verdict is being openly challenged.

The author is a internationally recognized, well-known, well respected senior barrister (trial lawyer) from Perth.

Open letters to:

(1) the Public Prosecutor of Koh Samui Province

(2) the Thailand Bureau of Laboratory Quality Standards

(3) the Thailand Bureau of Laboratory Accreditation, both part of the Department of Medical Sciences, Ministry of Public Health.

“This finding was made in spite of the following facts [each of which violates the standards of ISO 17025]: the police claimed they had ‘used up’ all the original mixed semen samples; there were no chain of custody documents in evidence; there were inadequate case notes; no statistical analysis was performed; hand-written changes were made to documents without explanation; a used condom was not made available to the defense, and stamps were not present on documents."

“There was no reference in the judgement as to when the laboratory obtained the accreditation, the extent of the accreditation or which body gave the accreditation.”

The three recipients are asked who accredited the laboratories for ISO 17025 in relation to human DNA testing and matching, and the scope of the accreditation.

The author sets forth the time honored principal that it must be “shown that the DNA testing was carried out in accordance with standards that allow the defense team to verify the test results and conclusions.” AND that the Courts of Justice be made fully aware of the extent of accreditation (or non-accreditation) of the laboratories.”

And the pressure is racheted up further. It won't be long before the only people agreeing with the verdict will be the RTP, a few 'persons of influence' on Koh Tao and a few internet shills (or is that the case already )

[iReason]

That's about sums it up Han.

If you look at the bottom of the page, you'll see, they have all fled.

I'm still waiting for a Troll response to this:

“This finding was made in spite of the following facts: [each of which violates the standards of ISO 17025]:

1. The police claimed they had ‘used up’ all the original mixed semen samples.

2. There were no chain of custody documents in evidence.

3. There were inadequate case notes.

4. No statistical analysis was performed.

5. Hand-written changes were made to documents without explanation.

6. A used condom was not made available to the defense, and stamps were not present on documents.

Edited January 17, 2016 by iReason

[Khun Han]

The eventual responses will either be so convoluted as to bore readers to sleep before they've got to the end of the post (seems to have quietened down) or 'the judges were happy with the evidence, and they're not intersted in your opinion'.

[TheLobster]

DNA evidence in the Kho Tao Verdict is being openly challenged.

The author is a internationally recognized, well-known, well respected senior barrister (trial lawyer) from Perth.

Open letters to:

(1) the Public Prosecutor of Koh Samui Province

(2) the Thailand Bureau of Laboratory Quality Standards

(3) the Thailand Bureau of Laboratory Accreditation, both part of the Department of Medical Sciences, Ministry of Public Health.

“This finding was made in spite of the following facts [each of which violates the standards of ISO 17025]: the police claimed they had ‘used up’ all the original mixed semen samples; there were no chain of custody documents in evidence; there were inadequate case notes; no statistical analysis was performed; hand-written changes were made to documents without explanation; a used condom was not made available to the defense, and stamps were not present on documents."

“There was no reference in the judgement as to when the laboratory obtained the accreditation, the extent of the accreditation or which body gave the accreditation.”

The three recipients are asked who accredited the laboratories for ISO 17025 in relation to human DNA testing and matching, and the scope of the accreditation.

The author sets forth the time honored principal that it must be “shown that the DNA testing was carried out in accordance with standards that allow the defense team to verify the test results and conclusions.” AND that the Courts of Justice be made fully aware of the extent of accreditation (or non-accreditation) of the laboratories.”

Trial report:

The results of the DNA tests on the exhibited cigarette butts indicated that the second defendant and Mr Mau Mau had smoked the exhibited cigarettes, which was confirmed by the testimonies of the two defendants that they took it in turns to smoke the same exhibited cigarettes.

This indicates that the examination conducted by the Central Forensic Bureau was accurate and correct thus giving weight to the credibility of the test results and indicating that the test results are admissible.

It indicates nothing, nothing, absolutely nothing ... sweet <deleted>

[JLCrab]

Just to note that the only person who on ThaiVisa said that he was at the AC Bar the night in question, who would know the (person of influence) on sight, and said that, at least for the time he was at the bar, did not see the (person of influence), was hooted by persons on here for so posting.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/838898-koh-tao-trial-opens-for-2-accused-of-killing-british-tourists/page-185#entry9660041

Hardly credible though, 7 posts member since when and how do you know it is a he?

< snip >

Again misdirection

No misdirection -- the only report on ThaiVisa from anyone who claims to have been at the AC Bar that evening and would know the person referenced on sight. No other person who was a friend of the late Ms. Witheridge or in her company that evening has come forward either with any information that she had any altercation with anyone in the bar that night.

The poster said last JULY 2015: "I very rarely post on these forums." As to gender, the first post using that name is:

"My Thai girlfriend has just completed & printed her visa application to travel to the UK with me" so maybe she is a lesbian.

Edited January 17, 2016 by JLCrab

[pkspeaker]

that screenshot is only a PARTIAL of what she wrote, notice how its truncated by cocanuts,the original post rambled on how "most Thai people hate foreigners" and "Thai people do not value human life" and some other racist shit..Why is cocanuts spinning it like this, if your gonna report it then report what she really said.

[JohnnyHK]

Kind of OT but how can Sharky stand up to and challenge the Police reports with nothing happening to him? AFAIK Laura did not engage in any illegal activity while in Thailand but can be prosecuted for doing something "illegal" outside of Thailand?

[stephenterry]

Having my loving pet cat being savaged to death by a Thai dog pack last night I now have an empathy on how Lara is feeling about her murdered sister, which is considerably more heartbreaking. For her to make a statement about how the Rtp failed her family needed to be said. She needs justice for her sister not a total cover up, IMO. I hope the appeals court overturn the local court's verdict, but I don't hold out a lot of hope here in Thailand. Sorry, Laura, I really am.

[Isitjustme]

DNA evidence in the Kho Tao Verdict is being openly challenged.

The author is a internationally recognized, well-known, well respected senior barrister (trial lawyer) from Perth.

Open letters to:

(1) the Public Prosecutor of Koh Samui Province

(2) the Thailand Bureau of Laboratory Quality Standards

(3) the Thailand Bureau of Laboratory Accreditation, both part of the Department of Medical Sciences, Ministry of Public Health.

“This finding was made in spite of the following facts [each of which violates the standards of ISO 17025]: the police claimed they had ‘used up’ all the original mixed semen samples; there were no chain of custody documents in evidence; there were inadequate case notes; no statistical analysis was performed; hand-written changes were made to documents without explanation; a used condom was not made available to the defense, and stamps were not present on documents."

“There was no reference in the judgement as to when the laboratory obtained the accreditation, the extent of the accreditation or which body gave the accreditation.”

The three recipients are asked who accredited the laboratories for ISO 17025 in relation to human DNA testing and matching, and the scope of the accreditation.

The author sets forth the time honored principal that it must be “shown that the DNA testing was carried out in accordance with standards that allow the defense team to verify the test results and conclusions.” AND that the Courts of Justice be made fully aware of the extent of accreditation (or non-accreditation) of the laboratories.”

IY TF 170116 1st.jpg

IY TF 170116 1.jpg

IY TF 170116 3.jpg

Trial report:

The results of the DNA tests on the exhibited cigarette butts indicated that the second defendant and Mr Mau Mau had smoked the exhibited cigarettes, which was confirmed by the testimonies of the two defendants that they took it in turns to smoke the same exhibited cigarettes.

This indicates that the examination conducted by the Central Forensic Bureau was accurate and correct thus giving weight to the credibility of the test results and indicating that the test results are admissible.

It indicates nothing, nothing, absolutely nothing ... sweet <deleted>

Now be fair. As I mentioned earlier it indicates the B2 could be guilty of littering in a public place. Nothing else though.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Isitjustme

[Eirene]

Isn't that the petition the was delivered October 18, 2014 to Downing Street and the reason they then announced that Thailand agreed to allow UK police to help with the investigation? You also have to be a UK citizen to sign an official petition in the UK as with most countries.

[JLCrab]

The reason that an investigation commenced in 2014 could be standard protocol as requested by the victims next-of-kin according to the FCO /Police Chiefs /Coroners Memo July 2012 regarding Murder of British nationals Overseas with or without any petition.

[JLCrab]

On that Change-org petition for Mr. Harkins his byline reads: honolulu city United States Minor Outlying Islands.

So most likely Mr. Harkins is not a UK citizen which may be why this is a change-org petition and not an official UK petition that with sufficient support would legally require a response from Parliament or others in the UK Government.

[HaleySabai]

Not allowed to criticize the government, nor the police, the king, religion. Not allowed to criticize anything in Thailand. It's probably the best country in the world to put your hard-earned money and pensions into. Nothing to criticize and if there finally is something to criticize. Then you not allowed. Love Thailand.

Good one!....yes, celebrate mediocrity,banish critical thinking.......

[lvr181]

Why are they "prosecuting" - the girl is not even in Thailand! Is this some sort of face saving activity? Waste of time and resources for the happiness of some Thai authorities. Perhaps some authorative people believe that by patting themselves on the back they will go forward? Sheesh! I thought this was Thailand NOT la la land

[sambum]

Why are they "prosecuting" - the girl is not even in Thailand! Is this some sort of face saving activity? Waste of time and resources for the happiness of some Thai authorities. Perhaps some authorative people believe that by patting themselves on the back they will go forward? Sheesh! I thought this was Thailand NOT la la land

Same, same?

[HaleySabai]

I'm waiting to see the extradition order to get her to a Thai court, from a country that recognizes free speech on social media.................

I also wait in anticipation for Thailand to explain exactly what was wrong with what she apparently said in respect to truth......................

its only the usual 'knee-jerk' reaction to any form of criticism.

I find this culture profoundly interesting where the concept of critical-thinking is deliberately submerged under endless forms of celebrated mediocrity.

It's absurd how the hierarchical bureaucracy,that for centuries has known only its own way, can think to threaten authoritative measures in the small part of the world that is not Thailand. If they were given rubber bands and whiskey and told to affect the moon,would they attempt that too?

Thailand can be a wonderful place...until something goes wrong.

[farcanell]

Why are they "prosecuting" - the girl is not even in Thailand! Is this some sort of face saving activity? Waste of time and resources for the happiness of some Thai authorities. Perhaps some authorative people believe that by patting themselves on the back they will go forward? Sheesh! I thought this was Thailand NOT la la land

Maybe that is why she repeatedly used the term " what if I tell you"

This " implies more than states... Perhaps she knew enough about thailands laws, or had been advised not to openly critise the country et al, after all, to avoid the threat of persecution ( oops, prosecution), which does seem to have failed anyway

By the way... Love the la la land comment...,takes me way back to my childhood ?

[lvr181]

Why are they "prosecuting" - the girl is not even in Thailand! Is this some sort of face saving activity? Waste of time and resources for the happiness of some Thai authorities. Perhaps some authorative people believe that by patting themselves on the back they will go forward? Sheesh! I thought this was Thailand NOT la la land

Maybe that is why she repeatedly used the term " what if I tell you"

This " implies more than states... Perhaps she knew enough about thailands laws, or had been advised not to openly critise the country et al, after all, to avoid the threat of persecution ( oops, prosecution), which does seem to have failed anyway

By the way... Love the la la land comment...,takes me way back to my childhood ?

Perhaps some Thai authorities are still in their childhood?

And I might suggest an amendment to HaleySabai's comment about "hierarchical bureaucracy" to hierarchical idiocracy (bureaucratic idiots?)

[phuketandsee]

Andy Hall has just posted this:

"Koh Samui Court today granted the extension requested by defense lawyers in Koh Tao murder case to delay submitting appeal until 24 Feb 2016"

[ableguy]

This is so childish. Thais love to cut their nose to spite their face. DAILY!

Hourly more like, brain dead.

[farcanell]

This is so childish. Thais love to cut their nose to spite their face. DAILY!

Hourly more like, brain dead.

And with the emphasis that they attach to saving face,,, they will look pretty damn funny without noses

[PaPiPuPePo]

Over the past couple of days, in open forum, I have asked what a troll and a shill is/ are

I now know the simple answer... Lucky 11... Hey.... How much does a shill make?

He's on my ignore list but it doesn't seem to work when i am using the phone app. Why not!

Guess you'll just have to put up with me then and wait until they modify the phone ap you are using.

I don't think people should be called shills because they hold unpopular opinions; and I'd rather not shut out anyone's voice by ignoring them. But some people here seem to be more interested in stirring the pot for its own sake, or pushing an agenda. So, fortunately I'm on my laptop, and this is the last of your posts I'll have to look at, unquoted at least.

[Artisi]

Why are they "prosecuting" - the girl is not even in Thailand! Is this some sort of face saving activity? Waste of time and resources for the happiness of some Thai authorities. Perhaps some authorative people believe that by patting themselves on the back they will go forward? Sheesh! I thought this was Thailand NOT la la land http://static.thaivisa.com/forum//public/style_emoticons/default/blinding /img]

Maybe that is why she repeatedly used the term " what if I tell you"

This " implies more than states... Perhaps she knew enough about thailands laws, or had been advised not to openly critise the country et al, after all, to avoid the threat of persecution ( oops, prosecution), which does seem to have failed anyway

By the way... Love the la la land comment...,takes me way back to my childhood ?

What a load nonsense, do you really think she gives a rat's arse about Thai law when she is located in the UK - it amazes me how anyone can ever consider that the Thais have any say outside their own small sphere of influence.....

[farcanell]

Why are they "prosecuting" - the girl is not even in Thailand! Is this some sort of face saving activity? Waste of time and resources for the happiness of some Thai authorities. Perhaps some authorative people believe that by patting themselves on the back they will go forward? Sheesh! I thought this was Thailand NOT la la land http://static.thaivisa.com/forum//public/style_emoticons/default/blinding /img]

Maybe that is why she repeatedly used the term " what if I tell you"

This " implies more than states... Perhaps she knew enough about thailands laws, or had been advised not to openly critise the country et al, after all, to avoid the threat of persecution ( oops, prosecution), which does seem to have failed anyway

By the way... Love the la la land comment...,takes me way back to my childhood ?

What a load nonsense, do you really think she gives a rat's arse about Thai law when she is located in the UK - it amazes me how anyone can ever consider that the Thais have any say outside their own small sphere of influence.....

I'm sure you have a much better opinion as to why the Facebook posts, made by Laura, were removed... Or as to why she now fears for her life, if it's true that the Thai people don't care about her or her post.

This conjecture has been running continually through this thread, with no real answer, just questions about why her Facebook is closed, and throughout the thread, I have never said that the Thais could reach out to her in the UK... But many other posters have

Regardless...., please do go ahead and instead of hanging do do, on folk.....Attempt to give an explanation to all those curious cats wondering about why she went silent... You can even be nice when doing it, instead of being provocative... If you want, of course

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts and replies have been removed. Posts bickering about petitions which may not be related to this particular topic have been removed as well.

[bannork]

Interesting point farcanell, that, the repeated use of ' what if I tell you...' to avoid legal troubles, bit like the newspapers saying 'Mr X, the alleged killer' but it does seem strange to use it, repeatedly and in written English.

I can imagine someone using it verbally to try to convince someone else about some unpalatable facts- 'What if I told you boss, Jones has been stealing from the company for years?' but in written English? and repeatedly, it just seems a strange way to write for someone who is supposedly feeling intense rage.

She made so many accusations, I think I would not have been able to suppress my anger if it had been me and would have accused directly point by point

And the reported speech of the threats- Thais don't speak English like that, that was English slang.

As to why it was taken down, maybe her lawyers advised her it would do nothing to help free the Burmese 2, especially if her accusations couldn't be proved, simply rile the Thai authorities, or maybe she didn't write it herself.

[lvr181]

Interesting point farcanell, that, the repeated use of ' what if I tell you...' to avoid legal troubles, bit like the newspapers saying 'Mr X, the alleged killer' but it does seem strange to use it, repeatedly and in written English.

I can imagine someone using it verbally to try to convince someone else about some unpalatable facts- 'What if I told you boss, Jones has been stealing from the company for years?' but in written English? and repeatedly, it just seems a strange way to write for someone who is supposedly feeling intense rage.

She made so many accusations, I think I would not have been able to suppress my anger if it had been me and would have accused directly point by point

And the reported speech of the threats- Thais don't speak English like that, that was English slang.

As to why it was taken down, maybe her lawyers advised her it would do nothing to help free the Burmese 2, especially if her accusations couldn't be proved, simply rile the Thai authorities, or maybe she didn't write it herself.

It really does not matter what she said or how it was said, or whether and why Facebook page has been dealt with. At the end of the day she is not in Thailand so why are the Thai authorities wasting their time? Face saving perhaps? Totally unbelievable actually.