Offshore Biz and Thai Residency

[elviajero]

It entirely depends upon whether the activity the OP is performing is considered to be work as per the definition of 'work' within Thai legislation by the DOL (and at the end of the day a judge).

The definition of 'work' in that legislation is self referential and as such is entirely unclear, nobody on this forum is qualified to declare that a particular activity is 'work' and another is not (unless they happen to be a Thai judge, and even then it can only be their own interpretation).

My opinion is that the OP probably would be prosecuted if detected, since they refer to 'consulting' for Thai clients. But opinion it remains. Having 'business meetings' with Thai clients would likely be considered differently, but this sounds like more than that.

The immigration act allows for a foreigner to conduct business in Thailand without permission. However, I was replying to jspill and his reference to "Digital Nomads". A DN operating their business within Thailand is working by any definition, and their activity is entirely different to someone coming to Thailand to conduct business with Thai companies.

Lets assume for one crazy minute that the DOL/judge considered that DN's don't "work" and that they are exempt from the alien working law and immigration law. The DOL could, under current legislation, hand out permission in the form of a work permit and or a document confirming their exempting from work related legislation.

So, why don't they?

[rwdrwdrwd]

Because they don't care about it in the slightest is my opinion. Not on their radar, not taking jobs from Thais.

They aren't going to expressly legitimise it because that would be entirely open to abuse by people that are certainly on their radar, but all evidence I can see points toward the focus of the interpretation by the authorities that matter being on individuals that are competing for jobs in the Thai market against Thais. Tour guides, estate agents, etc.

As an example, see the treatment of the 10+ individuals arrested at PunSpace last year and released without charge. All taken into custody in a coworking space, machines all accessible, names now likely flagged yet nothing's come of it.

Not that I agree that a DN is 'working by any definition' a 'definition' is just that, and the Thai one is entirely open to interpretation. 'Work is work' does not define what work is.

All opinion of course, but that was my point, all anyone here can offer is opinion on how a given activity would be interpreted, not a 100% answer. Certainly seems a grey area to me.

[elviajero]

Because they don't care about it in the slightest is my opinion. Not on their radar, not taking jobs from Thais.

They aren't going to expressly legitimise it because that would be entirely open to abuse by people that are certainly on their radar, but all evidence I can see points toward the focus of the interpretation by the authorities that matter being on individuals that are competing for jobs in the Thai market against Thais. Tour guides, estate agents, etc.

As an example, see the treatment of the 10+ individuals arrested at PunSpace last year and released without charge. All taken into custody in a coworking space, machines all accessible, names now flagged yet nothing's come of it.

All opinion of course, but that was my point, all anyone here can offer is opinion on how a given activity would be interpreted, not a 100% answer. Certainly seems a grey area to me.

Not that I agree that a DN is 'working by any definition' a 'definition' is just that, and the Thai one is entirely open to interpretation. 'Work is work' does not define what work is.

The current tolerance is not in doubt, and if "it" stays under the radar nothing will likely change. The problem is that DN's are increasing and becoming less under the radar.

Working policy is not just about taking jobs, but it has always been a condition that a business creates jobs. Many foreigners create brand new businesses that do not take anything from anyone, but they still have to employ at least one Thai.

I believe the PunSpace incident was due to suspicion of working for a Thai entity without work permits, but once discovered they weren't, no charges were made. That simply underlines the current policy, but doesn't make DN activity legal. Had they prosecuted those foreigners they would have set the precedent and opened a can of worms that they currently don't seem to want to open.

I agree that legitimising online work would be open to abuse, and that is the main reason given to me, in my discussions with immigration and the DOL, as to why it is very unlikely ever to get legitimised. Or at least as a one off group of workers. Plus I doubt many DN's would want or be able to fulfil the conditions to gain such legitimacy.

In my opinion the legitimacy of DN work isn't a grey area at all. The work isn't work unless it's work and only then if a judge says it is, is just nonsense. The question is whether the activity of the foreigner is allowed and or needs permission, and the answer is in the immigration act. DN's want to be classed as tourists in which case their activities are pretty much limited to tourism and leisure, and operating a business doesn't fall within any definition of either.

[jspill]

I look forward to the day when you post a link to something that is actually relevant to the topic, point being made and without bias.

Likewise, I'd like a definitive source to end the debate one day, but I don't think Thailand is concerned enough. I don't think I'm biased just by being a digital nomad, my opinion would have been exactly the same when I was a teacher with a work permit a few years ago. Are you biased by not being a digital nomad?

No one's an authority to say 'there's no grey area whatsoever', including you. In your follow up post you switched to 'in my opinion there's no grey area', that's a lot better.

[No1inbangkok]

Please keep in mind that although I will be consulting here. Probably 75% of the clients I do business with are outside of the Kingdom. Maybe 25% of my 'business activity' will be for Thai customers and the majority of my time here would not be invested in working for the customers here. To me that doesn't in any way indicate employment in Thailand.

I will be able to obtain reference letters from my Thai clients for Visa purposes so my best bet is?;

• Multiple entry Non-Im B for 9 months?
• 1 Year business visa?
• I can enter as often as i like on both Visas however doing border runs are Ill advised where as leaving for a week or two and returning should cause no issues?
• Can I apply for both of these Visa's in HK or do I need to be in my home country to apply?
• Any idea of costs?

All the best,

[ubonjoe]

Please keep in mind that although I will be consulting here. Probably 75% of the clients I do business with are outside of the Kingdom. Maybe 25% of my 'business activity' will be for Thai customers and the majority of my time here would not be invested in working for the customers here. To me that doesn't in any way indicate employment in Thailand.

I will be able to obtain reference letters from my Thai clients for Visa purposes so my best bet is?;

• Multiple entry Non-Im B for 9 months?
• 1 Year business visa?
• I can enter as often as i like on both Visas however doing border runs are Ill advised where as leaving for a week or two and returning should cause no issues?
• Can I apply for both of these Visa's in HK or do I need to be in my home country to apply?
• Any idea of costs?

All the best,

A non-b visa can be issued fro business purposes. There is no business visa, A multiple entry non-b visa allows unlimited 90 day entries for a year,

You can do a out/in at a border crossing with a non-b visa but you might be asked what you are doing here and/or be asked to show a work permit.

Unless you are a HK citizen or resident you will be unlikely to get the multiple entry visa there. Your home country may be the only place you can get one.

The fee for a multiple entry visa is 5000.

[No1inbangkok]

Please keep in mind that although I will be consulting here. Probably 75% of the clients I do business with are outside of the Kingdom. Maybe 25% of my 'business activity' will be for Thai customers and the majority of my time here would not be invested in working for the customers here. To me that doesn't in any way indicate employment in Thailand.

I will be able to obtain reference letters from my Thai clients for Visa purposes so my best bet is?;

• Multiple entry Non-Im B for 9 months?
• 1 Year business visa?
• I can enter as often as i like on both Visas however doing border runs are Ill advised where as leaving for a week or two and returning should cause no issues?
• Can I apply for both of these Visa's in HK or do I need to be in my home country to apply?
• Any idea of costs?

All the best,

A non-b visa can be issued fro business purposes. There is no business visa, A multiple entry non-b visa allows unlimited 90 day entries for a year,

You can do a out/in at a border crossing with a non-b visa but you might be asked what you are doing here and/or be asked to show a work permit.

Unless you are a HK citizen or resident you will be unlikely to get the multiple entry visa there. Your home country may be the only place you can get one.

The fee for a multiple entry visa is 5000.

I would apply for non-b visa while in Thailand? No need to apply from overseas?

I currently hold a non-b through my employer. Do you know if I can apply for another while still holding this one? (this one will be cancelled by employer when I resign).

All the best,

D

[ubonjoe]

Please keep in mind that although I will be consulting here. Probably 75% of the clients I do business with are outside of the Kingdom. Maybe 25% of my 'business activity' will be for Thai customers and the majority of my time here would not be invested in working for the customers here. To me that doesn't in any way indicate employment in Thailand.

I will be able to obtain reference letters from my Thai clients for Visa purposes so my best bet is?;

• Multiple entry Non-Im B for 9 months?
• 1 Year business visa?
• I can enter as often as i like on both Visas however doing border runs are Ill advised where as leaving for a week or two and returning should cause no issues?
• Can I apply for both of these Visa's in HK or do I need to be in my home country to apply?
• Any idea of costs?

All the best,

A non-b visa can be issued fro business purposes. There is no business visa, A multiple entry non-b visa allows unlimited 90 day entries for a year,

You can do a out/in at a border crossing with a non-b visa but you might be asked what you are doing here and/or be asked to show a work permit.

Unless you are a HK citizen or resident you will be unlikely to get the multiple entry visa there. Your home country may be the only place you can get one.

The fee for a multiple entry visa is 5000.

I would apply for non-b visa while in Thailand? No need to apply from overseas?

I currently hold a non-b through my employer. Do you know if I can apply for another while still holding this one? (this one will be cancelled by employer when I resign).

All the best,

D

You cannot apply for a non-b visa within the country. A non-b visa can only be applied for at a embassy or consulate.

If you have a valid multiple entry non-b visa from an embassy or consulate it will remain valid until it expires. If you have an extension of stay based upon working obtained at immigration it will end when your job ends.