Grass for cattle

[kickstart]

I do not what verity your Napier grass is , but the variety in the photo is Napier Pack-Chon 1 ,there is a Napier Pack- Chon 2 ,both varieties can be cut at ,2 meters tall but the feed value will be reduced ,and more important the Dry Matter Intake reduced ,DMI is the part of the foodstuff or substance ,that would remain if all the water is taken out (Wikie)

Your face book guy is trying to make a business selling napier grass for sale ,like a lot of growers ,it needs to be tall and stemmy to be used as rootstock ,at one time 1 stem was 5 Bart ,now cheaper. .

So you're cassava and Napier grass ,with a dry matter of 25%,or 75% water 25% feedstuff ,a concentrate is about 90% dry matter ,or 90% feedstuff 10 % water ,or you need to feed about 3 1/2 kg of cassava .to equal 1 kg of concentrate,with the sheer bulk of the cassava no animal could eat that amount of bulk and remain healthy ,without any digestive upsets /problems , and it would be far from a balanced ration ,and for certain growth rate will be reduced, it gets a lot more complicated than this ,but it is a very basic outline .

And remember cassava has a protein of 1.9% and your average concentrate will be 14-16% depending on your needs ,so if you feed a lot of cassava ,protein intake will suffer ,and again so will growth rates ,you need high energy feeds to make a balanced ration

High energy feeds are expensive because they are expensive to produce , and here in Thailand a lot is imported especially for pigs and poultry ,you must know what it takes to produce a field of soya bean or a crop of maize .

On the subject of rice straw ,it is feed a lot in Thailand because it is plentiful and very easy to feed ,and most farmers do not have the land to grow any grass on ,those that do have land ,will grow a cash crop ,maize sugarcane etc.

That cassava skins and Napier grass paper is for goats ,if it would work for cattle I would not know ,you could mix some molasses in with the Napier silage ,that would up the energy value ,but at 8 Bart /kg for a 4% protein feed ,with a low dry matter ,would it pay ,and you would need an applicator to apply the molasses to the silage ,something I have been thinking about for some time .,any ideas.

For a different feed that might help ,have a look at Molasses urea feed blocks ,plenty of recipes , and papers about them on the net ,can make them yourself, our CLW might be interested to ,I made some a long time ago, at the time the cost to protein ratio made them economical to make .

[Allgeier]

or you need to feed about 3 1/2 kg of cassava .to equal 1 kg of concentrate,with the sheer bulk of the cassava n

And remember cassava has a protein of 1.9% and your average concentrate will be 14-16% depending on your needs ,so if you feed a lot of cassava ,protein intake will suffer ,and again so will growth rates ,you need high energy feeds to make a balanced ration

High energy feeds are expensive because they are expensive to produce , and here in Thailand a lot is imported especially for pigs and poultry ,you must know what it takes to produce a field of soya bean or a crop of maize .

,but at 8 Bart /kg for a 4% protein feed ,with a low dry matter ,would it pay ,

For a different feed that might help ,have a look at Molasses urea feed blocks ,plenty of recipes , and papers about them on the net ,can make them yourself, our CLW might be interested to ,I made some a long time ago, at the time the cost to protein ratio made them economical to make .

Sure it's easy to feed out from a bag an concentrate. This make the feedindustrie richer. In Thailand sometimes i think there only "Bagfarmer's" Every feed coming out from the bag. Pig, chicken, Quail, cow. Everythink coming in an bag. The sillage also.

For me is soja meal a protein source. Not a energy source. The price of sojameal is now 1200 Bath for 70 kg. Its not so expensive and dry cassava cost 5 Bath/kg. Or the skin from cassava cost 150 Bath/to, but wet. I can not call this expensive. And the pig grow well from the cassava skin. But there get also Soja and Ricebran, Vitamin and Mineral.

I mix now for under 8 Bath a 17 % Protein feed. And the cassava skin together with the Nephiergras will also cost under 1 Bath/kg for sillage.

But everythink must be part of a feedprogramm. After a while will see if it's work or not. But i will try and not waiting and make the feedcompany only richer and richer.

On feedipedia there come many study's from Afrika about byprodukt from cassava.

[kickstart]

The reason most farmers buy feed from the big companies ,is that they can not produce a feed themselves ,at say 16% protein that is viable and cheaper than the feed companies can produce ,as I said before feed companies mix urea ,as in 46-0-0 fertilizer urea ,it is ok ,should not be feed more than about 1.5 % of the ration ,and when I use to do cattle rations 1% of urea in a ration push up the protein of the ration up by 1%,for the feed companies a cheap way of increasing the protein of a ration .

In my Soi there are 2 farmers that buy in the raw ingredients and mix their own ration last time I asked there ration was 16% protein @ 11 Bart /kg ,with no urea added ,urea has a bad name with dairy farmers ,farmers in the past mixing their own feed added urea at the wrong ratio ,ended up with some dead cows ,and some farmers say feeding urea gives you an infertility problem ,which ,in a nutshell is BS ,urea is a by-pass protein ,that is it gets digested in the cow's intestines, where more is utilized by the cow ,than being digested in the rumen ,where more is lost and not utilized in the natural digestive system ,Gatin is another by-pass protein.

But is the above 16% ration ,really 16%? the seller of the raw ingredients ,will have worked out a ration for the farmer ,not the farmer making his own ration then buying in the raw ingredients ,I have my doubts at 11 Bart/kg ,with no urea in .I would pass on that ,we have 2 feed mills round here ,and some farmers have sent some of the ration for analysing , one guy's did not reach 16% ,a lot I do not know the outcome of ,but I have my doubts .

That ration of yours 17% protein for under 8 Bart/kg , no urea is it really 17% ,the price I could agree on soya bean is 1270 Bart 70 kg bag @ 18 Bart/kg that is cheap .normal soya is 22-25 Bart/kg @ 44% protein ,palm kernel @ 6.88Bart /kg (about) is cheap,@ 18% protein .molasses 8 Bart/kg ,@ 4% protein .

The gremlin is Gratin ,round here farmers are cutting it and drying it ,and selling it at 3 Bart/kg your buying price is 6 ?Bart/kg ,also what is the protein of gratin ,the leaves are 22% protein ,but when it is cut and shredded ,the branches are included ,some farmers I have seen cutting gratin have branches an inch thick ,not any protein in them ,so I would put gratin in at 6% protein ?,plus vitamins and minerals .

And cassava skins at 1.5% protein,I do not know what ratio all the ingredients are, @ under 8 Bart /kg can not be a lot of soya in the ration .

I am feeding a dubious 14% concentrate ,from a small local feed mill ,and that is costing me 7 Bart/kg ,a lot of cassava in it ,as now cassava is cheap.

Soya bean meal is a sauce of protein and energy the energy sauce comes from the oil ,same as Palm kernel ,a lot of oil providing the energy .

You are right about everything must be part of a feed program ,a lot of farmers do not realize that.

[cooked]

May I hijack the thread a little? I am trying to drag the son in law into the 19th century as far as some farming practices are concerned. He did buy some molasses at my instigation, which he has diluted with water and made available to the cows and calves. I thought that this was meant to be added to straw (in this case, rice straw) and then fed?

I am still struggling to find sources of cassava skins etc.

[Allgeier]

I am still struggling to find sources of cassava skins etc.

Here is everthink what we need to upgrade our cassava skin knowledge.

http://www.feedipedia.org/node/526

kickstart:

I put 21 % Sojameal insite the feed.

And here is somethink about Urea insite the feed. The cow's or Ruminantia need also the Urea insite the feed. Here there explain better:

http://www.feedipedia.org/node/564

One time i read there putting chickenpoo insite the cattle feed.For the Urea.

[kickstart]

Hi cooked

When I first come here molasses was about 2 Bart/kg, cheap , farmers use to dilute with water, and add salt ,then spread it on rice straw ,some used coconut shells ,3-4 coconut shells of molasses, then 5-7/8 litre of water ,mix the salt ,idea of the salt is to make the cows thirsty ,so they drink more water ,so they will give more milk ,basically BS.

Molasses is 4% protein ,you add a lot of water ,all you end up with is brown sweet smelling water with about 1/2% ? protein ,cows will eat the straw ,as its smells nice ,a bit of moisture ,makes it a bit more palatable ,but the straw is still about 4% protein.

You are right neat molasses can be added to straw ,makes it a bit more palatable and it will push the energy value ,up a bit ,but not so the protein ,to much ,may be to 5%.

What you could do is make fermented rice straw ,about 100 kg of straw ,100 kg of water 4-5 kg of urea, plus 10 kg of molasses ,sheet it down for 21 days ,then feed it to cattle ,pushes up the protein of the straw to about 7-8% ,makes it a bit more digestible.

But who would make it can son in law be bothered? a dairy farmer near here built 3 bunkers for making fermented straw ,block walls ,all rendered ,he was an absentee owner most of the time the farm workers made fermented straw I think once ,not enough time ,or could not be bothered to do it again, not certain.

As for cassava skins, and cassava waist Gut-Mun ,in Thai I would not bother at 1.5% protein ,and straw at 4% protein , not a balanced diet , not a lot of weight gain for the calves ,and it would not make the cows over fertile, but if he is feeding some concentrate feed ,then a cassava byproduct could be feed.

I know the problem all our dairy farmers say round here rear beef cattle good idea ,do not have to feed them like dairy cows , just rough grazing and rice straw. Like my neighbour .

If he dose want to feed cassava skins ,ask at a cassava buyer ,he should know ,but it could be a long way away ,round here it is hauled 100 km plus ,to a factory ,that would not make it economical to travel any distance and back for a feed that is not worth a lot .

@ Allgeier.

Back in the UK 30 years ago poultry manure was added to cattle feed, the urea in the manure was a cheap form of protein ,but they was no slandered .or rules and regs on how high the temperature in the oven should be to kill the harmful bacteria ,it was not high enough ,and it was said it caused mad cow disease or BSE, soon got banned ,when it was found out what was going on ,

[CLW]

I have some useful information from lecture sheets but I need to scan them. Next week maybe.

What else I can tell you there is a software for free download called "KU feed calculator"

I never tried it but it might be useful to the ones who want to mix their own feed.

[cooked]

Hi cooked

When I first come here molasses was about 2 Bart/kg, cheap , farmers use to dilute with water, and add salt ,then spread it on rice straw ,some used coconut shells ,3-4 coconut shells of molasses, then 5-7/8 litre of water ,mix the salt ,idea of the salt is to make the cows thirsty ,so they drink more water ,so they will give more milk ,basically BS.

Molasses is 4% protein ,you add a lot of water ,all you end up with is brown sweet smelling water with about 1/2% ? protein ,cows will eat the straw ,as its smells nice ,a bit of moisture ,makes it a bit more palatable ,but the straw is still about 4% protein.

You are right neat molasses can be added to straw ,makes it a bit more palatable and it will push the energy value ,up a bit ,but not so the protein ,to much ,may be to 5%.

What you could do is make fermented rice straw ,about 100 kg of straw ,100 kg of water 4-5 kg of urea, plus 10 kg of molasses ,sheet it down for 21 days ,then feed it to cattle ,pushes up the protein of the straw to about 7-8% ,makes it a bit more digestible.

But who would make it can son in law be bothered? a dairy farmer near here built 3 bunkers for making fermented straw ,block walls ,all rendered ,he was an absentee owner most of the time the farm workers made fermented straw I think once ,not enough time ,or could not be bothered to do it again, not certain.

As for cassava skins, and cassava waist Gut-Mun ,in Thai I would not bother at 1.5% protein ,and straw at 4% protein , not a balanced diet , not a lot of weight gain for the calves ,and it would not make the cows over fertile, but if he is feeding some concentrate feed ,then a cassava byproduct could be feed.

I know the problem all our dairy farmers say round here rear beef cattle good idea ,do not have to feed them like dairy cows , just rough grazing and rice straw. Like my neighbour .

If he dose want to feed cassava skins ,ask at a cassava buyer ,he should know ,but it could be a long way away ,round here it is hauled 100 km plus ,to a factory ,that would not make it economical to travel any distance and back for a feed that is not worth a lot .

@ Allgeier.

Back in the UK 30 years ago poultry manure was added to cattle feed, the urea in the manure was a cheap form of protein ,but they was no slandered .or rules and regs on how high the temperature in the oven should be to kill the harmful bacteria ,it was not high enough ,and it was said it caused mad cow disease or BSE, soon got banned ,when it was found out what was going on ,

I guess I'll give cassava skins a miss then, 2 hours drive to the nearest place that I know of. I have sourced 'shredded corn veg' at ฿1.- /Kg. I don't know what this is but it looks like a good supplement for when grass is rare.

[kickstart]

Hi cooked

When I first come here molasses was about 2 Bart/kg, cheap , farmers use to dilute with water, and add salt ,then spread it on rice straw ,some used coconut shells ,3-4 coconut shells of molasses, then 5-7/8 litre of water ,mix the salt ,idea of the salt is to make the cows thirsty ,so they drink more water ,so they will give more milk ,basically BS.

Molasses is 4% protein ,you add a lot of water ,all you end up with is brown sweet smelling water with about 1/2% ? protein ,cows will eat the straw ,as its smells nice ,a bit of moisture ,makes it a bit more palatable ,but the straw is still about 4% protein.

You are right neat molasses can be added to straw ,makes it a bit more palatable and it will push the energy value ,up a bit ,but not so the protein ,to much ,may be to 5%.

What you could do is make fermented rice straw ,about 100 kg of straw ,100 kg of water 4-5 kg of urea, plus 10 kg of molasses ,sheet it down for 21 days ,then feed it to cattle ,pushes up the protein of the straw to about 7-8% ,makes it a bit more digestible.

But who would make it can son in law be bothered? a dairy farmer near here built 3 bunkers for making fermented straw ,block walls ,all rendered ,he was an absentee owner most of the time the farm workers made fermented straw I think once ,not enough time ,or could not be bothered to do it again, not certain.

As for cassava skins, and cassava waist Gut-Mun ,in Thai I would not bother at 1.5% protein ,and straw at 4% protein , not a balanced diet , not a lot of weight gain for the calves ,and it would not make the cows over fertile, but if he is feeding some concentrate feed ,then a cassava byproduct could be feed.

I know the problem all our dairy farmers say round here rear beef cattle good idea ,do not have to feed them like dairy cows , just rough grazing and rice straw. Like my neighbour .

If he dose want to feed cassava skins ,ask at a cassava buyer ,he should know ,but it could be a long way away ,round here it is hauled 100 km plus ,to a factory ,that would not make it economical to travel any distance and back for a feed that is not worth a lot .

@ Allgeier.

Back in the UK 30 years ago poultry manure was added to cattle feed, the urea in the manure was a cheap form of protein ,but they was no slandered .or rules and regs on how high the temperature in the oven should be to kill the harmful bacteria ,it was not high enough ,and it was said it caused mad cow disease or BSE, soon got banned ,when it was found out what was going on ,

I guess I'll give cassava skins a miss then, 2 hours drive to the nearest place that I know of. I have sourced 'shredded corn veg' at ฿1.- /Kg. I don't know what this is but it looks like a good supplement for when grass is rare.

"shredded corn veg" would that be a by-product from the maize canning industry ? ,the husks and striped cobs plus a few grains of corn, could be wet ,giving a low dry matter ,you could say at a 1 Bart/kg ,not the greatest quality of feeds ,but again could be better than only rice straw as a diet ,any idea what it is in Thai.

[Allgeier]

As for cassava skins, and cassava waist Gut-Mun ,in Thai I would not bother at 1.5% protein ,and straw at 4% protein ,

Here there writing nearly 5 %.

http://www.feedipedia.org/node/11944

I like the idee of feeding by-produkt to animal. But some maybe must push up like th Cassavabran. And after fermentetion it's not 1.5 %. It's a liitle bit more.

On Youtube there are some Video how there increase the Protein in the Cassavabran.

The nutrions from the Cassavaskin and the Cassavatubers are nearly some. Sure, the Cassavaskin is full of small pices from Cassava from the washing the tubers at the Fabrik.

[kickstart]

That is the only web site I have seen that has cassava with a protein at 4.8 % , I would say that could be the protein of the raw cassava, even then that would still be high .the figure used by most feed tables is the DCP, the digestible crude protein ,that is protein that the animal gets out of a feed ,after it has been digested ,which is a truer figure of the value of a feed .

Again fermentation will not make a feed higher in protein ,like silage ,fresh grass is still higher in protein than grass silage.

Cassava mixed with urea, and maybe some molasses ,in to a silage will increase the protein ,of the silage

[IsaanAussie]

This is an interesting thread as producing on-farm feed has been a target for me for years. Several posts back, KS made the comment about the difficulty of trying to produce your own feed cheaper than you could buy commercial feed. I couldn't agree more if you are buying ingredients retail, very hard to compete against volume/price of the feed companies.

I'd be interested to read what you cow guys are doing about pasture improvement.

[Allgeier]

Again fermentation will not make a feed higher in protein ,like silage ,fresh grass is still higher in protein than grass silage.

Cassava mixed with urea, and maybe some molasses ,in to a silage will increase the protein ,of the silage

Try this one:

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0103-90162009000500007

or this

http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd27/3/noup27044.html

In one feedcompany there selling the dry cassvabran for 4,5 Bath/kg. Not bad for the company if i think there buying it fresh for 20 Bath/to.

[CLW]

Let me allow to talk about a very unusual idea, the use of algae as food supplement.

They're rich in nutrients. I saw some research on the internet. They use chicken poo as fertilizer and you can use solar power for Air pump. For on-farm use for pig and cow feed supplement you can use the Algae-water mixture instead of drinking water.

For further processing it needs to be centrifugated and dried.

As I wrote at the beginning, just an idea for discussion

[Allgeier]

Let me allow to talk about a very unusual idea, the use of algae as food supplement.

They're rich in nutrients. I saw some research on the internet. They use chicken poo as fertilizer and you can use solar power for Air pump. For on-farm use for pig and cow feed supplement you can use the Algae-water mixture instead of drinking water.

For further processing it needs to be centrifugated and dried.

As I wrote at the beginning, just an idea for discussion

I like the idee. But it's not easy to collect it. Maybe its easy to collect for 5 chicken, but to replace 100 kg of Sojameal its maybe not easy.

I tryed this already with the duckweed. I used pig poo for it. It's work but it's not enough.

But the nutrions are amazing from the duckweed.

http://www.fao.org/WAICENT/FAOINFO/AGRICULT/AGA/AGAP/FRG/Recycle/dweed/mandw.htm

[CLW]

Let me allow to talk about a very unusual idea, the use of algae as food supplement.

They're rich in nutrients. I saw some research on the internet. They use chicken poo as fertilizer and you can use solar power for Air pump. For on-farm use for pig and cow feed supplement you can use the Algae-water mixture instead of drinking water.

For further processing it needs to be centrifugated and dried.

As I wrote at the beginning, just an idea for discussion

I like the idee. But it's not easy to collect it. Maybe its easy to collect for 5 chicken, but to replace 100 kg of Sojameal its maybe not easy.

I tryed this already with the duckweed. I used pig poo for it. It's work but it's not enough.

But the nutrions are amazing from the duckweed.

k-DSCN5258.JPG

http://www.fao.org/WAICENT/FAOINFO/AGRICULT/AGA/AGAP/FRG/Recycle/dweed/mandw.htm

Exactly, for both, algae and duckweed you need to produce a lot to utilise it as your feed

[Allgeier]

Exactly, for both, algae and duckweed you need to produce a lot to utilise it as your feed

Everythink is connected with work. To collect the duckweed, snail, hyazinth and prepare it to be feed to animal.

It's easy to go to the feedshop and buy a bag of feed.

[CLW]

Exactly, for both, algae and duckweed you need to produce a lot to utilise it as your feed

Everythink is connected with work. To collect the duckweed, snail, hyazinth and prepare it to be feed to animal.

It's easy to go to the feedshop and buy a bag of feed.

Not only work, you need to grow a lot because of small size of algae and duckweed.

For algae if you don't want to make a concrete pond I saw a project they were growing it in huge transparent plastic bags

[kickstart]

This is an interesting thread as producing on-farm feed has been a target for me for years. Several posts back, KS made the comment about the difficulty of trying to produce your own feed cheaper than you could buy commercial feed. I couldn't agree more if you are buying ingredients retail, very hard to compete against volume/price of the feed companies.

I'd be interested to read what you cow guys are doing about pasture improvement.

Hi IA.

For me we only have a limited amount of land ,and trying to grow grass, as we know it is a lot more difficult by a long way, than trying to grow grass .in say Europe ,it is more like ,for you trying to grow grass in the " Top end" in Australia , the hot part , in the north ,where ,when I was they I noticed conditions similar to Thailand ,even found Gratin ,the tree legume, growing ,not easy to grow grass ,especially in the dry season ,where supplementary feed is the norm ,but you have state/government extension officers to give advice to farmers on grazing and grazing management ,all though the year .

As you know Thailand well, trying to get Thai farmers to change ,or do any thing new is not easy ,they will not take advice like a farmer in Oz would ,I know dairy farmers that have 25 rie of land ,put the cows on 1-2 rie ,and grow crops on the rest ,where they buy in every thing ,produce nothing they self ,how they make money I do not know.

A Thai friend of mine use to be a manager at one of our local dairy milk co-ops ,use to try and get farmers to grow grass , he use to say a lot are to lazy to grow grass ,most think grass is grown for a cut and cart system ,again to lazy to cut and cart .easier to feed rice straw ,any sort of grazing system not easy ,most farms would be well over stocked for any grazing system ,Thai tradition says cows do not graze at night, afraid of thieves or cows braking out , due to poor fencing, in the shed with rice straw at night times ,we had a grazing system here where, in the rainy season ,some nights when we have a lot of rain ,it stops, cattle go out grazing ,in the morning the grass field looks more like a ploughed field ,well poached.

Thailand also has a limited grass verity's , mainly Purple Guiney , Luzie, Luzie also does not like water logging ,seed mainly coming from the Government Livestock Service, DLD Michal Hare at Ubon Forage has a grass seed company , and grass which grows too, all grass as you know needs fertilizer ,and Thai's do not use a lot of fertilizer if any ,and management of grass is not good to say the least .

So pasture improvement in Thailand is not good, now a lot of farms are growing Napier grass,but as has been said before needs cutting at 45 -50 days ,any older grass gets to tough to eat ,and protein drops, but again some farmers plant Napier grass but hardly ever cut it ,can not be bothered , guy near me has a field of Nippier grass ,must be ,10 rie could well be self sufficient if he managed it properly ,but he still feeds rice straw .

A farmer near Mortlec Salaburi ,grows Napier ,quite well known ,been on Thai TV ,he grows Napier ,puts on mainly cow manure on the grass ,on a cut and cart system ,chops all his grass ,no more than 50 days old ,his cows are milking well have herd of 18 -20 kg /cow/day, milk yield, which for Thailand is good, especially on a grass based diet would like to know how much concentrate he feeds ,compared to other dairy farms, so it can be done ,if you want.

[Allgeier]

kickstart:

What kind of grass you give to your cattle's ?

[IsaanAussie]

Hi KS,

Same old, same old situation. Either too much rain or no water. No labour or none worth today's wage prices. Inputs costing more than the crop/animals return. Well, that's our lot I'm afraid.

I've been back here in Oz for a couple of years looking for some form of scientific basis for our farm to become more sustainable "inside the fence". I think I'm getting closer and am talking to a company here that offers a complete analysis and agronomic advice service to their customers. They are exporting to many countries and are interested in including Thailand and offered distribution to me. I should hasten to add the costs are more than reasonable.

I need to be able to produce as much as I can, purchasing as little as I can. Their service will allow me to do that as I will make up prescription blends using a combination of on-farm, local basics like dolomite etc. and adding in the trace elements and humates etc.. from them. I also intend to use foliar application of some of their stuff as well as a range of biologicals that can be brewed up. It is an impressive range of products.

I am coming back for a few weeks in about a month to do a bit of research. Perhaps I should start up some form of topic on "Our" farmers needs and desires before then? Who knows, maybe there will be enough interest for us to form some sort of co-op amongst ourselves?

[cooked]

My first request would be for a reliable, reasonably rapid soil analysis service, including a few trace elements. Free of course, if you buy fertiliser from the company doing it.

[CLW]

My first request would be for a reliable, reasonably rapid soil analysis service, including a few trace elements. Free of course, if you buy fertiliser from the company doing it.

I'm not sure but you could try at Haifa fertilizer company

[farmerjo]

You should start another thread I/A as i think there's plenty of discussion on the subject.

[IsaanAussie]

My first request would be for a reliable, reasonably rapid soil analysis service, including a few trace elements. Free of course, if you buy fertiliser from the company doing it.

Anything is possible, some things more unlikely.

We did a pasture field trial on a beef property last May. We took samples of soil and the grass (ryegrass). The soil results for over 20 tests (Albrecht), and 4 (Lamotte/Reams) were done. 14 elements were tested in the plant tissue samples. We also soil tested the compost being used. Recommendations were based on available local materials to produce a prescription blend for the soil amendment process. There were no purchases made so the tests and agronomy reports were charged for.

[farmerjo]

The way it used to work back in Aus years ago was the merchandise business's would hire a agronomist and his time would be divided equally between the clients of that business.I said what if they start to charge to much for their products,he said they all new better than to do that as plenty of competition in the area.

I've tried here in Thailand with little success,the companies i've dealt with are to far away to be on hand when required and tend to be more of salesmen for the products than actually caring about farms individually.I got a recommendation to use a chemical i can't find in my area.(no good to me)

Last time i asked for a soil report i was told to take the sample and send it to them in bangkok,i personally don't mind spending the money if there is some onsite evaluations done.This could also be because i'm a farang and some Thai's get nervous dealing in english.I had that experience today,a kubota guy was 600 metres from my farm today and i asked him to come to the house to discuss for 5 minutes what simple changes i have to make to the machine.(different size screen on the concave)with my wife,sorry sir ring the office.

I think here in Thailand there is opportunities if willing to travel to do business and can communicate in english..

[kickstart]

kickstart:

What kind of grass you give to your cattle's ?

Hi Allgerier.

We feed our cattle Naiper grass silage , the Napier grass is Napier Taiwan ,which we got from a local farmer ,looking at Google, Napier Taiwan is similar to Elephant grass, and has about the same feed values as Napier Pac-Chon.

We cut the grass for silage at about 50 days ,and get some good quality silage ,but in the uk you make hay when the sun shines ,here in Thailand you make silage when it rains ,when the grass is growing ,which is not easy ,last year we had some Napier that was 70 -80 days old to wet to cut for silage, at the time , and we wilt the grass for 30 hours ,for a higher dry matter ,we had to throw 40% away ,just to old and steamy.

I will admit our graizing land is not good , have grown grass ,but our land is is old rice paddies ,I have sub soiled the land ,which has improved drainage a bit ,but it still floods after a lot of rain,then after lasts year drought ,my grass field looked more like a brown snooker table ,as IA said yesterday, too wet or to dry. and being over stocked is our biggest problem , but the land we use to rent ,a lot dryer I had a grazing system ,again we where over stocked but ,from May - October we had some grass 80% of the time we used Ruzie grass seed.

Now we are feeding Gratin ,the tree legume ,no grazing grass, a good dry season feed .but hard work to cut and cart every day ,we only feed 8 kg of silage per beef cow ,I would like to feed a lot more , last year we made about 9 ton of grass silage ,just me and the misses ,but we would need more land , not easy to find at a economic price ,and we would have to find some labour to help out,but it would be very part time ,not easy to find ,and would it be cost effective .

[Allgeier]

Thank you for your answer.

I belive everythink must be done by the owner by them self. In my case. We have nearly 6 Rai and this is no size for Labour from outside. I will call this size "Run by Family"

I am thinking also to make this silage because the grass what i have it's to mutch. But maybe i will put some dryed cassva skin insite to come done with the water. Or what is a good moisture for silage?

Last week i start to cut the "sugar cane part" from the Napiergrass away and i feed now only the green top with the leaf to the calw and i must say there nearly stop to eat the straw. There eat now mutch more gras.

A soil analysis. I think when a soil can protect and support vegetable or crop who are planted there. The soil is good. When i plant salat or tomatos on it and the salat get after eaten by insect i will say the soil is not ready to protect the green. There need more kompost.

But this comes after years. This is not the work from one month or one years. This takes years. (In my eyes).

[kickstart]

Thank you for your answer.

I belive everythink must be done by the owner by them self. In my case. We have nearly 6 Rai and this is no size for Labour from outside. I will call this size "Run by Family"

I am thinking also to make this silage because the grass what i have it's to mutch. But maybe i will put some dryed cassva skin insite to come done with the water. Or what is a good moisture for silage?

Last week i start to cut the "sugar cane part" from the Napiergrass away and i feed now only the green top with the leaf to the calw and i must say there nearly stop to eat the straw. There eat now mutch more gras.

A soil analysis. I think when a soil can protect and support vegetable or crop who are planted there. The soil is good. When i plant salat or tomatos on it and the salat get after eaten by insect i will say the soil is not ready to protect the green. There need more kompost.

But this comes after years. This is not the work from one month or one years. This takes years. (In my eyes)

Making grass silage ,as I said we cut the grass at about 50 days depending on the weather, I normally cut the grass early in the morning ,cool time of the day ,leave it to the fowling day ,at about 10 am ,ish we turn it over , dry the under side ,about 2 pm we pick it up lake it home and chop it , doing it this way we have a silage of about 40% dry matter ,DM .

We have found if the grass is more than 60 days ,less leaf ,the 30 hour wilt is to long a higher DM ,more like a haylage, a dry silage almost like hay and cattle will not eat it so readily , then we have cut grass in the morning ,and chopped it in the afternoon .

When the silage is wetter cattle like a lot more ,but has more water ,so cattle do not get the feed value out of the silage ,and if they where eating a a lot, over a long time they will not put on the weight ,not enough dry matter intake DMI ,in the diet.

On a practical side the wetter silage ,that cattle like ,smells strong ,I feed round ,then go back in to the house ,the misses says I smell ,and Thai's do not like anything that smells ,if she feeds the cattle, she will often use gloves .

A few years ago we had to buy in some silage, a local farmer was selling Napier grass silage , we brought 40 bags ,which we mixed with our own silage ,the brought in silage was cut at 70-80 days, not wilted, cut and chopped straight away , and was wet ,we had to throw away 7-8 bags it went rotten ,opened a bag more of a compost than a silage ,silage was made far to wet ,no microbes percent to make the grass in to silage ,only made compost .

We have not brought in any fodder feed stuff for 3 years now ,this silage and the gratin we cut ,almost makes the profit on the farm, to buy and bag of grass silage from our local dairy co- op is 50 - 55 Bart ,I calculated us making silage 1 bag is about 12-15 Bart ,that is cost of plastic bags ,diesel ,for the tractor, fertilizer, loading and spreading manure on the field.

The biggest headache is labour costs ,trying to work out how much I am worth a day ,and the misses ,for with out her I could not do what we are doing ,say what you like any stock farm rearing is labour intensive,if you put on say, 10 Bart a bag for labour costs ?,that would be about 25 Bart ,to make a bag of silage ,silage that would be a lot better quality than you could buy .

Do not feed to much fresh grass to young calves ,they digestive system can not take it ,and you will end up with pot belled calves ,that will not do well

[Allgeier]

Hello kickstart

My wife try to call this Number from the silagebag. But nobody answer the phone. When i look at my gras i think it's time to cut it down. But i need this plasticbag first.

I searched the web put what kind of plastik it should it be? PE, PP or some else?

On this milkfarm i bought the calw there buying the silage for about 130 Bath/Bag. This is not so bad if somebody will buy it for this price.

Maybe it's also a way of income to sell silagebag. Must try.