Sanders transforms into contender, still pitches revolution

[ttthailand]

I would guess that if the democratic primary race was to have a rerun starting today and there were no closed primaries Sanders would have a blowout. I think Hillary would loose in just about every state except some of the states that the Republicans will take anyway. What do you think ?

The presidential race will also be just like I stated above, not closed and independents voting. Unless Trump's support starts to fade Hillary is going to be in real trouble. If the democrats were smart they would be working on a way to elect Bernie.

[thaihome]

Good article by the center left Huffington Post, except for throughly discredited Michael B. Mukasey. Personally I hope she is indicted and it happens soon. arjunadawn, well written and I agree, except Bernie is NOT a socialist any more than FDR was. He wants to return to the New Deal. If that's your idea of Socialism, well all I can say is you should know better. I'll take the New Deal which brought prosperity to the American people over "Reaganomics", AKA voodoo economics, that has brought America to it's knees and destroyed the working/middle class. OK, with the Clinton's help in repealing Glass-Steagall.

FDR's New Deal did not end the 1929 depression. World War II ended it.

Following is a great read on the New Deal that will bring you up to date.

http://www.history.com/topics/new-deal

From the article...

"On December 7, 1941, the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and the United States entered World War II. The war effort stimulated American industry and, as a result, effectively ended the Great Depression."

So you are saying that massive deficit spending on an unprecedented level funded by issuing treasury bonds ended the depression? And it worked?

TH

Not really. Deficit spending began in 1932, long before WW2 began. The industrialization of the US economy to support the war effort in Europe and the Pacific was the massive jolt that got things going.

Here's one outlook on it:

---------------------------------------------------------------------

"The US funded its World War II effort largely by raising taxes and tapping into Americans' personal savings.

That leaves savings, which was the War's primary source of funding. During the War, Americans purchased approximately $186 billion worth of war bonds, accounting for nearly three quarters of total federal spending from 1941-1945.

An early use of the term "war bond" was for the $11 million raised by the US ... from its principal banking institutions to meet the growing costs of the war."

https://www.quora.com/How-did-the-US-fund-the-WWII-war-effort-How-much-did-the-war-cost

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't like that one, how about Wikipedia? They are OK on things like this discussion.

Examples:

"Personal savings

Personal income was at an all-time high, and more dollars were chasing fewer goods to purchase. This was a recipe for economic disaster that was largely avoided because Americanscajoled daily by their government to do sowere also saving money at an all-time high rate, mostly in War Bonds but also in private savings accounts and insurance policies. Consumer saving was strongly encouraged through investment in war bonds that would mature after the war. Most workers had an automatic payroll deduction; children collected savings stamps until they had enough to buy a bond. Bond rallies were held throughout the U.S. with famous celebrities, usually Hollywood film stars, to enhance the bond advertising effectiveness. Several stars were responsible for personal appearance tours that netted multiple millions of dollars in bond pledgesan astonishing amount in 1943. The public paid ¾ of the face value of a war bond, and received the full face value back after a set number of years. This shifted their consumption from the war to postwar, and allowed over 40% of GDP to go to military spending, with moderate inflation.[9] Americans were challenged to put "at least 10% of every paycheck into Bonds". Compliance was very high, with entire factories of workers earning a special "Minuteman" flag to fly over their plant if all workers belonged to the "Ten Percent Club". There were seven major War Loan drives, all of which exceeded their goals.[10]

Labor

Greater wartime production created millions of new jobs, while the draft reduced the number of young men available for civilian jobs. So great was the demand for labor that millions of retired people, housewives, and students entered the labor force, lured by patriotism and wages.[12] The shortage of grocery clerks caused retailers to convert from service at the counter to self-service.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_home_front_during_World_War_II

There is lots more out there but you can do your own research from now on...don't know about sarge, though...he says "we don't need no education."

You do realize that "war bonds" are a form of treasury bonds. Nothing in what you have said contradicts my point that the depression was ended by massive deficit spending to pay for the military payrolls and supplies funded by selling treasury bonds. In fact you have said the same thing.

TH

[chuckd]

FDR's New Deal did not end the 1929 depression. World War II ended it.

Following is a great read on the New Deal that will bring you up to date.

http://www.history.com/topics/new-deal

From the article...

"On December 7, 1941, the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and the United States entered World War II. The war effort stimulated American industry and, as a result, effectively ended the Great Depression."

So you are saying that massive deficit spending on an unprecedented level funded by issuing treasury bonds ended the depression? And it worked?

TH

Not really. Deficit spending began in 1932, long before WW2 began. The industrialization of the US economy to support the war effort in Europe and the Pacific was the massive jolt that got things going.

Here's one outlook on it:

---------------------------------------------------------------------

"The US funded its World War II effort largely by raising taxes and tapping into Americans' personal savings.

That leaves savings, which was the War's primary source of funding. During the War, Americans purchased approximately $186 billion worth of war bonds, accounting for nearly three quarters of total federal spending from 1941-1945.

An early use of the term "war bond" was for the $11 million raised by the US ... from its principal banking institutions to meet the growing costs of the war."

https://www.quora.com/How-did-the-US-fund-the-WWII-war-effort-How-much-did-the-war-cost

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't like that one, how about Wikipedia? They are OK on things like this discussion.

Examples:

"Personal savings

Personal income was at an all-time high, and more dollars were chasing fewer goods to purchase. This was a recipe for economic disaster that was largely avoided because Americanscajoled daily by their government to do sowere also saving money at an all-time high rate, mostly in War Bonds but also in private savings accounts and insurance policies. Consumer saving was strongly encouraged through investment in war bonds that would mature after the war. Most workers had an automatic payroll deduction; children collected savings stamps until they had enough to buy a bond. Bond rallies were held throughout the U.S. with famous celebrities, usually Hollywood film stars, to enhance the bond advertising effectiveness. Several stars were responsible for personal appearance tours that netted multiple millions of dollars in bond pledgesan astonishing amount in 1943. The public paid ¾ of the face value of a war bond, and received the full face value back after a set number of years. This shifted their consumption from the war to postwar, and allowed over 40% of GDP to go to military spending, with moderate inflation.[9] Americans were challenged to put "at least 10% of every paycheck into Bonds". Compliance was very high, with entire factories of workers earning a special "Minuteman" flag to fly over their plant if all workers belonged to the "Ten Percent Club". There were seven major War Loan drives, all of which exceeded their goals.[10]

Labor

Greater wartime production created millions of new jobs, while the draft reduced the number of young men available for civilian jobs. So great was the demand for labor that millions of retired people, housewives, and students entered the labor force, lured by patriotism and wages.[12] The shortage of grocery clerks caused retailers to convert from service at the counter to self-service.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_home_front_during_World_War_II

There is lots more out there but you can do your own research from now on...don't know about sarge, though...he says "we don't need no education."

You do realize that "war bonds" are a form of treasury bonds. Nothing in what you have said contradicts my point that the depression was ended by massive deficit spending to pay for the military payrolls and supplies funded by selling treasury bonds. In fact you have said the same thing.

TH

Sigh...

Yes, I know what Series E Bonds are. I remember my mother coming home with a hand full of them on paydays during the war and, guess what...I also knew they were a form of treasury bonds, but thanks for the tutorial.

What memories do you have from WW2?

I never disputed it was deficit spending that fueled the end of the depression. My point has always been that what fueled the deficit spending that finally ended the depression was WW2 and not FDR's New Deal.

I guess you have a point in there somewhere but my skills at sarcasm are not tuned up this morning so I will simply say...Ta.

[sgtsabai]

And chuckie is still worshiping his hero President Hoover. Yep, no defect spending, let the people starve and the infrastructure go to hell. Vulture capitalism will take care of all, no need for government to do their job and help the people. Nobody is arguing that WWII didn't finally end the Depression era. FDR's program was working, yes slowing but it was working in spite of the obstruction by the usual, the Republicans, plutocrats and corporations. Thankfully America wasn't so full of a vocal minority of right wing wackos back then. Most people understood Unions were needed, real jobs were needed, and who brought on the crash. Too many angry old white men just can't accept the truth these days, but their days of rule are ending. BTW, what was the tax rate on the rich back then and when Ike was president? You know, some of the most prosperous times, great growth, somewhere around 90% was it. And no, nobody paid the rate, there were loopholes and deductions back then. But, not to the point of people like Romney paying around 12% while the working/middle class shoulders much of the burden. Bernie would do his best to fix this, neither Clinton or the Trump will. Bring on Bernie's New Deal.

[sgtsabai]

Here is a little bit about the Democrat Party starting to tear itself apart. It should make Republicans happy, but their party is in shambles already. I said before that the blue dawg corporate DNC would never support Warren. DNC chair Wasserman Schultz has taken big money from Wall Street, like her friend Clinton. Now, she's paying Wall Street back. She's signed on to Republican legislation to block Senator Elizabeth Warren's Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) from cracking down on predatory payday lenders.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/05/15/chaos_at_nevada_democratic_convention_dnc_leaders_flee_building_as_sanders_supporters_demand_recount.html

[Boon Mee]

Well, according to the Leftist Demagogue in Chief, the difference between a successful member of society and a drunken bum laying on the sidewalk is just dunb luck?

Spewing a wicked ideology again. "You didn't build that!"

Bull. Shit.

[chuckd]

And chuckie is still worshiping his hero President Hoover. Yep, no defect spending, let the people starve and the infrastructure go to hell. Vulture capitalism will take care of all, no need for government to do their job and help the people. Nobody is arguing that WWII didn't finally end the Depression era. FDR's program was working, yes slowing but it was working in spite of the obstruction by the usual, the Republicans, plutocrats and corporations. Thankfully America wasn't so full of a vocal minority of right wing wackos back then. Most people understood Unions were needed, real jobs were needed, and who brought on the crash. Too many angry old white men just can't accept the truth these days, but their days of rule are ending. BTW, what was the tax rate on the rich back then and when Ike was president? You know, some of the most prosperous times, great growth, somewhere around 90% was it. And no, nobody paid the rate, there were loopholes and deductions back then. But, not to the point of people like Romney paying around 12% while the working/middle class shoulders much of the burden. Bernie would do his best to fix this, neither Clinton or the Trump will. Bring on Bernie's New Deal.

My name is not Chuckie.

Now let me give you a little clue and a touch of reality.

Bernie will soon be history and his New Deal wouldn't get 20 votes total out of both Houses of Congress.

Just a question but would you describe Bernie as "just another angry old white man?

Even the witches of Oregon can't help him.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Welcome to a Bernie Sanders Wiccan ritual

Chris Megerian

Attending a rally for Bernie Sanders usually involves long lines and security screenings, but that wasn’t the case at an intimate, informal event Friday evening supporting the Vermont senator’s presidential campaign in a park here.

Instead of metal detectors, entrance required burning ceremonial sweetgrass.

Participants were “smudged,” meaning the smoke from the sweetgrass was wafted over them before they could enter the sacred circle and begin a Wiccan ritual to support Sanders ahead of Oregon’s primary on Tuesday.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-sanders-prayer-circle-20160514-snap-story.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------

But maybe Bernie's paid supporters can riot enough to do him some good with his Democrat party friends.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

‘WE NEED A MEDIC!’ Hillary, Bernie delegates clash at NV Dem convention

MAY 15, 2016

BY KYLE OLSON

Supporters of Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders clashed in Las Vegas on Saturday and it got so out of hand, cops descended on the ballroom and threatened arrests.

Convention attendee and YouTube user Anie H. posted several photos of the action, as announcements were made over the loud speaker to leave the Paris Hotel or risk being arrested.

She said Las Vegas Metropolitan police entered from the back of the room and went to the front, and “they are literally going to force us to leave the room.”

As she spoke, people could be seen shouting and waving their fists and signs.

http://www.theamericanmirror.com/chaos-police-threaten-arrests-nevada-dem-convention

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Strangely none of this was reported by CNN or any other MSM news source.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Chaos At Nevada Democratic Convention As Bernie Fans Boo Barbara Boxer [VIDEO]

ALEX PFEIFFER

Reporter

11:24 PM 05/14/2016

Upset Bernie Sanders supporters booed California Sen. Barbara Boxer, a Hillary Clinton supporter, during a contentious Nevada Democratic Convention Saturday.

“We need civility in the Democratic Party, civility,” Boxer said as Sanders supporters booed the senator. Clinton won the Nevada Caucus and received more delegates than Sanders at the Saturday convention. Bernie supporters upset with the convention results started chants of “recount.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/05/14/chaos-at-nevada-democratic-convention-as-bernie-fans-boo-barbara-boxer-video/#ixzz48nSaO5vL

Civility isn't something that sits well with Bernie supporters. Now they are rioting at their own political conventions, not just the Republicans.

And the liberals on this forum say the Republicans are the ones that are screwed up. Ridiculous.

[Boon Mee]

Take The Quiz: Who Said It? Karl Marx or Bernie Sanders?

http://www.hannity.com/articles/election-493995/take-the-quiz-who-said-it-14304142/

To be honest, this poster didn't do too well...

[chuckd]

Well, according to the Leftist Demagogue in Chief, the difference between a successful member of society and a drunken bum laying on the sidewalk is just dunb luck?

Spewing a wicked ideology again. "You didn't build that!"

Bull. Shit.

He's also solved the crime problem. He has declared criminals should henceforth be called "justice involved individuals".

No more criminals...no more crime.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Obama doesn’t think rapists, armed robbers, drug dealers are criminals

By Kyle Smith May 14, 2016 | 2:00pm

It’s only May, but I think I’ve found the euphemism of the year: According to Team Obama, criminals should now be declared “justice-involved individuals.”

The neo-Orwellianism comes to us from the bizarre flurry of last-minute diktats, regulations and bone-chilling threats collectively known to fanboys as Obama’s Gorgeous Goodbye.

http://nypost.com/2016/05/14/owellian-administration-brands-criminals-justice-involved-individuals/

[sgtsabai]

If it comes from the right wingnut lying Hannity it isn't worth the time to polluted my computer with. As to you didn't make this, damn right you didn't. Nothing gets made without people, infrastructure, police, fire protection, education etc. No "you" didn't make that America made that. And the Republicans are screwed up, not 2 working brain cells among all of them. Wackos all. BTW I'm not civil, never been into "peace, love, dope and good vibes". I fight back. Then again I'm not a liberal, I'm a left wing radical militant and damn proud of it. I had already posted the link to what happened at Nevada Democratic Convention. It was the DNC affiliated chairperson that caused the ruckus by closing down the convention while a recount vote was still pending. Perhaps reading might help you just a tad. Boxer deserves a good "booing", nothing but a corporate blue dawg Democrat. Perhaps you've never been so far down you can't even see up. I have and it was luck, the government and help of friends that got me back on my feet. I don't want to hear that bootstraps crap, nobody does it all by themselves. And the answer is no, definitely not a definition of an old angry white man. That definition belongs strictly to right wingnut Republicans, you know like some of our posters. Bernie is, and rightly so, angry at what has happened to our country since the Reagan regime and the dumbing down of America. America needs to change and change quickly.

[chuckd]

[Boon Mee]

What was your score, Sarge?

[sgtsabai]

While I do check on what the country's enemies, faux (not the) news being one, are up to, I have no desire to pollute my computer with Hannity's lying right wingnut bullcrap.

[chuckd]

What was your score, Sarge?

I only got four of them correct. Never realized Bernie was such a Marxist.

Edit in: Despite all his warrior talk, it seems he is frightened of the written word.

Edited May 16, 2016 by chuckd

[sgtsabai]

Challenging me are you? No keyboard warrior here. Ah, are you saying Hannity can actually write? Well whata ya know, who'da thunk it? I've read and forgotten more than you'll ever read. During a "junk on the bunk" inspection the colonel saw all the books in my lockers, Ayn Rand one of them, and asked if I was going back to college when I got out. I was reading college level before entering the 7th grade. Perhaps you should read Marx. His writings are good, in practice communism doesn't work. He has been right about several things, his thoughts on Capitalism and what it does and how it controls are good. In practice unfettered (vulture) capitalism doesn't work. Bernie speaks truth to the power, Clinton lies, the Trump lies, Republicans don't know the truth when they see it and can't handle it when it slaps them in the face. No, Bernie and what he has started will not soon be history. His New Deal is what the Democrat Party used to stand for before being "triangulated" by the Clintons. It needs to get back to its roots. Bernie has always said that without the people behind him pushing Congress etc. he cannot get anything done by himself, then again some folks just can't seem to get the message. And here folks we have yet another prime example of what happens to the right wing when they are loosing as they always do. Change the subject and attack the individual. Yep tried and true.

[sgtsabai]

More reason to support Bernie. She has announced Bill will be in charge of "revitalizing the economy". OMG! So the fox will be guarding the hen house. While it was the Regan regime that set America on the road to ruin, it was Bill Clinton that enabled it. "Clinton had five major achievements as president: NAFTA, the Crime Bill of 1994, welfare reform, the deregulation of banks and telecoms, and the balanced budget. All of them -- every single one -- were longstanding Republican objectives." http://www.truth-out...-gop-objectives .

[up2u2]

Sarge Fox News et al Fox rags all sing from the same hymn book. Republican Right Wing Corporate shill drivel.

They just keep repeating the same rubbish over and over again.

Methodolgy: Make them angry then tell them what is to blame for making them angry.

A brilliant doco that explains how the Right Wing have captured the media.

"The Brainwashing of My Dad"

To be honest after watching the Doco I really felt sorry for the Right Wing extremists. They just get sucked into the vortex of anger and hate and then get directed to the wrong reason and people who are to blame. Seriously if you haven't watched the Doco take a look it is very compelling Sarge.

America is in desperate need of Media regulation. One simple piece of legislation is needed. Reporting must be Fair and include both sides of an issue and must be balanced in that it provides equal time between the competing debates on an issue.

I know "Fox News Fair and Balanced". Their business model would be wiped out overnight. They simply could not broadcast their biased Right Wing drivel 24/7.

On the issue of the minimum wage you would have experts debating both sides of the issue in a fair and balanced way. The people would then form their view.

With candidates they could not simply give one candidate 90% of the airtime each candidate would receive equal fair and balanced airtime.

Edited May 16, 2016 by up2u2

[sgtsabai]

Agree, that doctorine was the rule for many years until removed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairness_Doctrine . There is also this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-time_rule . Which is obviously easily gotten around. America is a victim of purposeful "dumbing down" hence the large minority of ill/un informed people, as evidenced on TV. Thankfully they make up a very, very small minority of expats. Most expats do have more than one working brain cell. The push to destroy public education and substitute charter (big business-again), "christian", home schooling is part of that process. While in my time perhaps we didn't get the very best education, part of that being the students fault, we did get an education. We were also taught to think and to question. As a friend of mine from the class after me, flew out of U-Tapao, said "We may have hated it, but unlike those today we got an education". Educated people do not fall for the right wing propaganda. There is absolutly nothing "fair and balanced" about faux (not the) news propaganda. I believe Bernie will do everything he can, with the peoples help, to bring back our education system, the real one, public education.

[chuckd]

If either of you rocket scientists could give me the channel number where Fox is located on TrueVisions, I would appreciate it.

I've been living in Isaan for nigh on 8 years now and haven't seen Fox News one time. I can't find it on my provider.

All I get is CNN, Clinton News Network, and BBC.

Now continue on and don't let any facts get in the way of a good story.

[Credo]

If either of you rocket scientists could give me the channel number where Fox is located on TrueVisions, I would appreciate it.

I've been living in Isaan for nigh on 8 years now and haven't seen Fox News one time. I can't find it on my provider.

All I get is CNN, Clinton News Network, and BBC.

Now continue on and don't let any facts get in the way of a good story.

I am not sure the channel number, but I think its the same as the Cartoon Channel.

[up2u2]

If either of you rocket scientists could give me the channel number where Fox is located on TrueVisions, I would appreciate it.

I've been living in Isaan for nigh on 8 years now and haven't seen Fox News one time. I can't find it on my provider.

All I get is CNN, Clinton News Network, and BBC.

Now continue on and don't let any facts get in the way of a good story.

It is an excellent doco it really helped me understand how people get deceived.

Maybe the title of this thread is accurate and it will come down to needing a revolution to sort this Corporate greed and Right Wing extremism out.

[sgtsabai]

well chuck, you are very lucky then. faux (not the) news is a real case for censorship, but to hell with it. Let the ignorant become just plain stupid. My house has no farang stations. But like Poltergeist, "they're here". Often on at one of my favorite watering holes, what a bunch of idiots, a laugh a minute if their propaganda wasn't so dangerous. Fortunately the sound is never one, ahem, nobody but me ever even looks at the screen. Much better scenery inside the bar and good music. CNN was once a good news source, not anymore, too right wing. Same with ABC, NBC and MSNBC has gone down since it changed owners a couple of years back. BBC has gone down hill also but better than American news. I would recommend Al Jazeera.

[jmd8800]

Sarge Fox News et al Fox rags all sing from the same hymn book. Republican Right Wing Corporate shill drivel.

They just keep repeating the same rubbish over and over again.

Methodolgy: Make them angry then tell them what is to blame for making them angry.

A brilliant doco that explains how the Right Wing have captured the media.

"The Brainwashing of My Dad"

To be honest after watching the Doco I really felt sorry for the Right Wing extremists. They just get sucked into the vortex of anger and hate and then get directed to the wrong reason and people who are to blame. Seriously if you haven't watched the Doco take a look it is very compelling Sarge.

America is in desperate need of Media regulation. One simple piece of legislation is needed. Reporting must be Fair and include both sides of an issue and must be balanced in that it provides equal time between the competing debates on an issue.

I know "Fox News Fair and Balanced". Their business model would be wiped out overnight. They simply could not broadcast their biased Right Wing drivel 24/7.

On the issue of the minimum wage you would have experts debating both sides of the issue in a fair and balanced way. The people would then form their view.

With candidates they could not simply give one candidate 90% of the airtime each candidate would receive equal fair and balanced airtime.

@up2u2 The USA used to have what is called The Fairness Doctrine. Abolished under Reagan in the late 80s. This happens to coincide with the rise of The Rush Limbaugh Show. No need for me to say more.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairness_Doctrine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh#The_Rush_Limbaugh_Show

But there is more to the idea of media and right wing control over issues. George Lakoff (linguist and cognative scientist at US Berkeley) in his Book "Whose Freedom" argues a case of right wing politics represent a 'strict father model' eg... there is not need for you to think..just follow my rules and you will be ok. This appears to bear out in the media. Mass media works well to keep right wing followers in lock step. Fox and Limbaugh being wildly successful and having a huge impact on its audience. The left according to Lakoff is from a nurturing family and children are taught to examine issues then make a decision as to right or wrong. Hence the term organizing the left is like trying to herd cats.

Mass media works well to keep right wing followers in lock step.

If one really wants to understand the political psychology strategy, they need to read Lakoff's book and another called "The Authoritarians" by Bob Altemeyer. Available for free here: http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

As can be seen with the radio show Air America (my first political website was mentioned on that show) it didn't last. Left people do not sit around being told what to think. They become confused all by themselves.... J/K

Just for the record I'm not making claims supporting or trashing one side or another. These are the opinions of highly regarded researchers in their fields.

[sgtsabai]

On "Brainwashing My Dad" http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/31/how-fox-news-made-my-dad-crazy.html . The only link I find to the movie itself is a 2.75 gb torrent. If anybody has a better link, utube whatever please share. Hit the nail on the head, "organizing the left is like trying to herd cats." Reminds me of the heady days with VVAW and AIM. Trying to get anything done was a real trip. But we did, after a lot of head butting. Best of times, worst of times. Funny though when push came to shove and the crisis was upon us, things got done and damn quick. We stood as one and we were right. jmd8800 good post.

[jmd8800]

If either of you rocket scientists could give me the channel number where Fox is located on TrueVisions, I would appreciate it.

I've been living in Isaan for nigh on 8 years now and haven't seen Fox News one time. I can't find it on my provider.

All I get is CNN, Clinton News Network, and BBC.

Now continue on and don't let any facts get in the way of a good story.

It is an excellent doco it really helped me understand how people get deceived.

Maybe the title of this thread is accurate and it will come down to needing a revolution to sort this Corporate greed and Right Wing extremism out.

If you ask me, here is what has already happened:

The corporate state (the wealthy / investor class) has bought out the right and the left making the USA government a wholly owned subsidiary of the corporate state. This "subsidiary" acts to maintain the global economy through any means necessary .... war, covert actions as coups and destruction of democratically elected governments or support for dictatorships. through the US Dollar as reserve currency, making and enforcing free trade agreements ..etc. The US government is the enforcement arm of multinational corporations. They already have pulled off the coup d'etat of the US government.

Only now are the people beginning to realize they have been hoodwinked and bamboozled and we see the rise of Trump and Sanders.

Before you right wingers go bashing me about making this a Republican issue let me say this: Bill Clinton was a republican not a Democrat. As was mentioned earlier his 5 signature issues were Republican issues and probably did more to destroy the middle/working class than any one else alive. As for Obama. Absolute failure. He is a continuation of war.. kills US citizens without trial .. neoliberal ideas ... and the largest destroyer of citizens rights guaranteed by the US Constitution. He signed into law a piece of legislation that eliminated habeas corpus.

Since Reagan era it has been the wealthy / investor class that has gone on the rampage of destroying a government that represents the people it is supposed to serve. The people should have kicked Reagan... Bush (1 and 2) Clintons... Obama... and their ilk to the curb many years ago... but they drank the kool-aid instead.

People elect leaders to represent them. There is an implied trust. Over 30 odd years that trust has disappeared to an extent that politicians are outright liars and thieves. While one can partially blame the people for drinking the kool-aid, the big issue is the people elected to represent the people completely betrayed the trust.

[NovaBlue05]

No such thing as "news" on US television except your local 6:00 pm version. All the network and cable outlets have switched to agenda driven political commentary. Better ratings...more money!

Maybe the good coming from the election is that the two party's appear to be crumbling from within. The GOP a bit faster but Bernie is exposing the other one as well.

[sgtsabai]

jmd8800 Yep! I lost trust in the government during the Nixon regime, no it was actually with the Democrat Chicago Convention Police Riots. Wonderful nightly news for someone just back from sunny SE Asia. The murder of students at Kent State and Jackson State pretty well cemented my views. The sheeple are waking up, but many are confused after their long sleep and going in the wrong direction, the Trumpthuglicans. NovaBlue yes, the destruction of both parties as we know them would be a good thing and yes perhaps the only good thing this election. Damn is that ling on speed....lol? chuck I'll see your WWII deficit spending and raise you with this I got from Military Times: http://theweek.com/articles/624334/how-world-war-ii-reveals-actual-limits-deficit-spending . You might notice the rich having to pay their fair share. Bernie wants the rich and corporation to start paying their fair share, Hillary and the Trump don't.

[Boon Mee]

This poster cannot believe there are still those folks out there that defend socialism. George Orwell summed it up perfectly in his novel "Animal Farm"

Sanders version is just another example of how peple keep falling for it.

It doesn't enrich anyone but the ruling elite - not rocket surgery here...

[CWMcMurray]

This poster cannot believe there are still those folks out there that defend socialism. George Orwell summed it up perfectly in his novel "Animal Farm"

Sanders version is just another example of how peple keep falling for it.

It doesn't enrich anyone but the ruling elite - not rocket surgery here...

I agree with you that socialism at its extreme is a terrible thing. I have read Animal Farm and agree with you that it can show the evils of a socialist society.

On the other hand, Upton Sinclair's book, The Jungle, also shows us the evils of Laissez Faire Capitalism. Have you read this one?

These are both extremes and the absolutes of opposite economic theories.

I would venture that both are evil if implemented in the extreme.

I believe that the path for happiness and success lies some where in the middle.

I would venture both on the left and right agree on this, the disagreement is on where that balance is found.

To say that Bernie is a full blown socialist fighting for 100 % socialists beliefs is simply not true. He just believes the balance is a bit further to the left than those on the right.

I feel that under the current system, international capitalism has pushed the system farther to the right and closer to the 'Jungle'.

As workers are being taken advantage of and not as easily able to support their families based on salaries provided for jobs that are available .

Let's take another issue.. the issue of public education..

Back a couple hundred years ago in the US there was no guarantee of free education K-12... Kids may get an elementary level education and then time to go to work.

Then it was found that this didn't meet the min requirements for citizens and it was felt that for US to grow in the future , all should have at least k-12 education available free of cost

Would say that was a great benefit to the US.

What about in today's world? Is a 12th grade education enough for our citizens?

I trust that all would say no... So if that is the case, what do do about it?

Currently all high school students are told they need to go to college and get a University degree in order to have a chance at a decent job that can allow them to enter the middle class.

In the past, this was not the case. In the past , let's say 30-40 years ago, a high school graduate could expect that his 12 year education enough to give him the skills to leave the free public education system and get a decent paying factory job.

Those days are over.student now need a college degree to partake in the new economy.

If so, then the free 12 grade education is not enough. Why should not public Universities be part of the public education system?

If the reality is that nearly every student needs a University degree to partake in the modern economy.. Then why shouldn't it be part of the public education system to help ensure that students are educated accordingly ?

Is this really a socialist policy? If so doesn't that make free public school k-12 also a socialist policy? Are those on the right against this level of public education ?no of course not.

It is just an issue of where to set the balance.

Edited May 17, 2016 by CWMcMurray

[Boon Mee]

If either of you rocket scientists could give me the channel number where Fox is located on TrueVisions, I would appreciate it.

I've been living in Isaan for nigh on 8 years now and haven't seen Fox News one time. I can't find it on my provider.

All I get is CNN, Clinton News Network, and BBC.

Now continue on and don't let any facts get in the way of a good story.

Suprisingly, CNBC with Joe Kernan provides some fair political reporting.

If you have TrueVisions Chuck, check it out on there. Squawk Box.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Boon Mee