CWMcMurray Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) If / when Hillary gets the nomination, will have to decide whether better to vote for Trump or stay home Leaning towards voting for Trump , but if he ends up having a love fest with Republican establishment .. Then may be staying home in the fall I would like to see a non bought and paid for candidate get elected Just to see if they could stay true once elected I hope that the super delegates Come to their sense but doubt that will happen Is really quite strange , as Bernie is the epitome of what most democrats say they believe in and want, but the DNC not a fan? Wouldn't be surprised if the reason is that this deal was made in 2008 for Clintons and they money making power to get behind Obama... Perhaps a promise was made that Obama's VP wouldn't run and that Hillary would be the anointed one in 2016... But seems Bernie didn't get the memo ... Who knows , maybe will be surprised and there will be a candidate worth giving full unadulterated support to in the fall... Edited May 18, 2016 by CWMcMurray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaBlue05 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 I don't think Bernie ever thought he would have as much traction as he has any more than Trump did on the other side. Imagine if the media had not largely ignored him throughout most of the primary season while circling the wagons around Clinton. It does provide some hope that the bovine masses might be starting to awaken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up2u2 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 If / when Hillary gets the nomination, will have to decide whether better to vote for Trump or stay home Leaning towards voting for Trump , but if he ends up having a love fest with Republican establishment .. Then may be staying home in the fall I would like to see a non bought and paid for candidate get elected Just to see if they could stay true once elected I hope that the super delegates Come to their sense but doubt that will happen Is really quite strange , as Bernie is the epitome of what most democrats say they believe in and want, but the DNC not a fan? Wouldn't be surprised if the reason is that this deal was made in 2008 for Clintons and they money making power to get behind Obama... Perhaps a promise was made that Obama's VP wouldn't run and that Hillary would be the anointed one in 2016... But seems Bernie didn't get the memo ... Who knows , maybe will be surprised and there will be a candidate worth giving full unadulterated support to in the fall... No, the DNC is not a fan of Bernie. They have taken hundreds of millions in bribes from Corporate America and the wealthy elite and Wall Street to ensure Hillary is elected and 'business as usual' is left unchanged and new favourable legislation for the wealthy and Corporate America is enacted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmd8800 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 If / when Hillary gets the nomination, will have to decide whether better to vote for Trump or stay home Leaning towards voting for Trump , but if he ends up having a love fest with Republican establishment .. Then may be staying home in the fall I would like to see a non bought and paid for candidate get elected Just to see if they could stay true once elected I hope that the super delegates Come to their sense but doubt that will happen Is really quite strange , as Bernie is the epitome of what most democrats say they believe in and want, but the DNC not a fan? Wouldn't be surprised if the reason is that this deal was made in 2008 for Clintons and they money making power to get behind Obama... Perhaps a promise was made that Obama's VP wouldn't run and that Hillary would be the anointed one in 2016... But seems Bernie didn't get the memo ... Who knows , maybe will be surprised and there will be a candidate worth giving full unadulterated support to in the fall... Your candidate would be Bernie then. As for Trump... but virtue of his wealth he is already in 'the game'. His allegiance is to money long before he became a candidate. This is the interesting part of the Trump candidacy. He is the epitome of what people feel they are voting against. As for the second statement in bold, I would guess that this is not a democrat issue. The DNC does not want Bernie because he is not 'on the game'. In respect to your statement I think both Trump and Sanders reflect the idea that the US voter is very tired of business as usual. The wealthy running the country and not the people. After the convention Trump will tone his outlandish talk down and focus on ripping Hillary to shreads. He has passed the stage where he needs to talk about Muslims, Mexicans, women etc to draw in bigoted voters, and will begin to unleash the most brutal assault on a presidential candidate the US has ever known. After destroying the democratic principles of a nation....America is about to get what it deserves: http://billmoyers.com/story/how-the-media-enabled-donald-trump-by-destroying-politics-first/ Real discourse in US democracy died a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar71 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 If / when Hillary gets the nomination, will have to decide whether better to vote for Trump or stay home Leaning towards voting for Trump , but if he ends up having a love fest with Republican establishment .. Then may be staying home in the fall Usually a candidate is from the establishment and has a "love fest" with the extreme end of the party during the primaries (they are the ones who turn out to vote more) before moving towards the center for the general election. With Trump (or Sanders if he gets the nod) the situation is reversed. They are part of the extreme end of the party in the first place and for the general election they will need to have a "love fest" with their party's establishment. In other words, no matter how much Trump plays nice with the Republican establishment from now until November, I doubt he is really changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up2u2 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 If / when Hillary gets the nomination, will have to decide whether better to vote for Trump or stay home Leaning towards voting for Trump , but if he ends up having a love fest with Republican establishment .. Then may be staying home in the fall Usually a candidate is from the establishment and has a "love fest" with the extreme end of the party during the primaries (they are the ones who turn out to vote more) before moving towards the center for the general election. With Trump (or Sanders if he gets the nod) the situation is reversed. They are part of the extreme end of the party in the first place and for the general election they will need to have a "love fest" with their party's establishment. In other words, no matter how much Trump plays nice with the Republican establishment from now until November, I doubt he is really changing. Trump is now part of the GOP establishment he has just brokered a deal with the GOP to get access to the wealthy elite and Corporate America 'pot of gold' bribe money. So the Presidency is now a choice between "Citizens United Full Strength" Trump and "Citizens United Lite" Hillary. Either way the fix is in. The electorate of America are screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpokaneAl Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 If / when Hillary gets the nomination, will have to decide whether better to vote for Trump or stay home Leaning towards voting for Trump , but if he ends up having a love fest with Republican establishment .. Then may be staying home in the fall Usually a candidate is from the establishment and has a "love fest" with the extreme end of the party during the primaries (they are the ones who turn out to vote more) before moving towards the center for the general election. With Trump (or Sanders if he gets the nod) the situation is reversed. They are part of the extreme end of the party in the first place and for the general election they will need to have a "love fest" with their party's establishment. In other words, no matter how much Trump plays nice with the Republican establishment from now until November, I doubt he is really changing. Trump is now part of the GOP establishment he has just brokered a deal with the GOP to get access to the wealthy elite and Corporate America 'pot of gold' bribe money. So the Presidency is now a choice between "Citizens United Full Strength" Trump and "Citizens United Lite" Hillary. Either way the fix is in. The electorate of America are screwed. I agree that the choices are grim. That said, the US will survive. We are not electing a dictator or a king, but merely a president with a boatload of checks and balances designed to keep him/her from taking us too far off the rails. There certainly is a great deal of hyperbole on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up2u2 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Trump is now part of the GOP establishment he has just brokered a deal with the GOP to get access to the wealthy elite and Corporate America 'pot of gold' bribe money.So the Presidency is now a choice between "Citizens United Full Strength" Trump and "Citizens United Lite" Hillary. Either way the fix is in. The electorate of America are screwed. I agree that the choices are grim. That said, the US will survive. We are not electing a dictator or a king, but merely a president with a boatload of checks and balances designed to keep him/her from taking us too far off the rails. There certainly is a great deal of hyperbole on this thread. I heard a News report today that Trump has reached agreement with the GOP to fund his election campaign. Two funds set up. One 'Lets Make America Great Again" and a separate fund 'Elect Trump 2016' this way the GOP retain the right to control the flow of funds and where they go and control Trump making sure the deals done with the wealthy elite and Corporate America are kept in place. Exploited Hispanic workers still available for the wealthy elite and Corporate America. Phew that was a close call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawker9000 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 If / when Hillary gets the nomination, will have to decide whether better to vote for Trump or stay home Leaning towards voting for Trump , but if he ends up having a love fest with Republican establishment .. Then may be staying home in the fall Usually a candidate is from the establishment and has a "love fest" with the extreme end of the party during the primaries (they are the ones who turn out to vote more) before moving towards the center for the general election. With Trump (or Sanders if he gets the nod) the situation is reversed. They are part of the extreme end of the party in the first place and for the general election they will need to have a "love fest" with their party's establishment. In other words, no matter how much Trump plays nice with the Republican establishment from now until November, I doubt he is really changing. Trump is now part of the GOP establishment he has just brokered a deal with the GOP to get access to the wealthy elite and Corporate America 'pot of gold' bribe money. So the Presidency is now a choice between "Citizens United Full Strength" Trump and "Citizens United Lite" Hillary. Either way the fix is in. The electorate of America are screwed. I agree that the choices are grim. That said, the US will survive. We are not electing a dictator or a king, but merely a president with a boatload of checks and balances designed to keep him/her from taking us too far off the rails. There certainly is a great deal of hyperbole on this thread. We'll have survived eight years of Obama! Sort of (if you're willing to set the "surviving" bar low enough). ...'Who wasn't exactly a great respector of "checks and balances"... 'Hard to believe anything could be worse than that. But wingnuts ARE working their butts off to hand us worse. Fortunately, I think the Chicago Machine Organizer-in-Chief has pretty much sealed the deal with independents - and I don't mean in his party's favor - for the next election. And it'll likely be acrimonious Sanders supporters sprinkling dirt on the Hillary campaign coffin. On the GOP side, Cruz & Kasich are already fading into campaign season history: they're not going to be anywhere near the problem for Trump that Sanders will remain for Hillary. The California ads for Clinton are starting to appear, and they're really sounding lame. 'Haven't really heard Sanders' ads yet, but I predict there'll be some real resonance (just as was the case up the left coast in Oregon & Washington). The "I'll just focus on Trump" strategy isn't going to work for Hillary here, but neither can she afford to train all her guns on Sanders. 'And all that while fending off the FBI dogs still nipping at her heals. Poor Hillary. 'Turning into a real basket case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up2u2 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 We'll have survived eight years of Obama! Sort of (if you're willing to set the "surviving" bar low enough). ...'Who wasn't exactly a great respector of "checks and balances"... 'Hard to believe anything could be worse than that. But wingnuts ARE working their butts off to hand us worse. Fortunately, I think the Chicago Machine Organizer-in-Chief has pretty much sealed the deal with independents - and I don't mean in his party's favor - for the next election. And it'll likely be acrimonious Sanders supporters sprinkling dirt on the Hillary campaign coffin. On the GOP side, Cruz & Kasich are already fading into campaign season history: they're not going to be anywhere near the problem for Trump that Sanders will remain for Hillary. The California ads for Clinton are starting to appear, and they're really sounding lame. 'Haven't really heard Sanders' ads yet, but I predict there'll be some real resonance (just as was the case up the left coast in Oregon & Washington). The "I'll just focus on Trump" strategy isn't going to work for Hillary here, but neither can she afford to train all her guns on Sanders. 'And all that while fending off the FBI dogs still nipping at her heals. Poor Hillary. 'Turning into a real basket case. Survived it pretty well in spite of an obstructionist Republican Congress. Sanders isn't really a problem for Hillary. She locked in Superdelegates before the campaign started. The big change now is the GOP are now funding Trump with 1%'ers and Corporate bribe money although they have Trump on a short leash he is going to have to make the right noises and agree to do as his minders dictate. Trump is now signed sealed and delivered part of the establishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaBlue05 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 The only reason there is any "checks & balances" right now is because there is a Democrat in the White House and a Republican controlled Congress. The Democrats in Congress are partisan lemmings who would throw the country off a cliff if Obama told them to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmd8800 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Checks and balances = checks written by lobbyists balance the cofers of the campaign fund. Seriously this is how voting and democracy work in the US. 1) Campaigns entice people to vote for someone. Issues: transgender bathrooms, gun control, prayer in school etc etc... hot topic wedge issues. 2) They vote and winner heads off to Washington DC 3) Representative settles in office first day. 4) Second day lobbyists show up. 5) Lobbyist says: we don't give a crap how you vote on gun control, transgender bathrooms etc... but YOU WILL vote for my clients tax rates to be lowered. And in addition to that vote you will side step and serious discussions of tax issues related to my client. 6) Furthermore: If you don't follow these simple rules we will not only stop funding your re-election but if you piss my client off enough we will destroy your character enough you'll likely not land a good job in the private sector. As for President. Same same. The 3rd wing is the courts. Unfortunately most high level positions are appointed I believe so see rule #5 above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publicus Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 If Bernie had won the D party nomination he too would need to draw on the party's funding resources to get the $1 billion each nominee needs now to conduct a viable campaign for Potus. There just aren't the numbers of supporters of Bernie had he become the nominee to donate $27 bucks a head to get to $1 bn. Or $270 bucks a head to finance Bernie's campaign as the nominee. Nowhere near the $1 bn. So had Bernie become the nominee, he would have had to face the choice of woefully nowhere near enough bucks or take the big bucks. Due to Bernie's self-righteousness and his holier-than-thou temperament, Bernie does need to calm down and to settle down between now and the D convention in Philadelphia...... Josh Marshall: “Sanders is telling his supporters that he can still win, which he can’t. He’s suggesting that the win is being stolen by a corrupt establishment, an impression which will be validated when his phony prediction turns out not to be true. Lying like this sets you up for stuff like happened over the weekend in Nevada.” Kevin Drum: “Before this campaign, he was a gadfly, he was a critic of the system, and he was a man of strong principles. He still is, but he’s also obviously very, very bitter… By all objective measures he did way better than anyone expected and had far more influence than anyone thought he would, and he should feel good about that. Instead, he seems more angry and resentful with every passing day.” It could seem Sanders sees Trump succeeding and Bernie wonders why not him instead or also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Sad Bernie is bitter but we need to focus now on the battle royale against trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usernames Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 So much anger towards Mr. Sanders, a good and wise man suspicious of international trade agreements and entangling treaties abroad.. Were I one of his supporters, I would get even with Clinton, Inc., which stole my vote, and elect Trump in the fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaBlue05 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 Checks and balances = checks written by lobbyists balance the cofers of the campaign fund. Seriously this is how voting and democracy work in the US. 1) Campaigns entice people to vote for someone. Issues: transgender bathrooms, gun control, prayer in school etc etc... hot topic wedge issues. 2) They vote and winner heads off to Washington DC 3) Representative settles in office first day. 4) Second day lobbyists show up. 5) Lobbyist says: we don't give a crap how you vote on gun control, transgender bathrooms etc... but YOU WILL vote for my clients tax rates to be lowered. And in addition to that vote you will side step and serious discussions of tax issues related to my client. 6) Furthermore: If you don't follow these simple rules we will not only stop funding your re-election but if you piss my client off enough we will destroy your character enough you'll likely not land a good job in the private sector. As for President. Same same. The 3rd wing is the courts. Unfortunately most high level positions are appointed I believe so see rule #5 above. Actually the lobbyists don't even have to approach all representatives. They find it much more efficient and profitable to just instruct the top dozen or so in each party...the Pelosi's, McConnells, Reid's, Schumer's, etc on their assignments. These Party "leaders" then read the riot act to the other 500 members who will vote in lockstep as they are told. Those who push back against the status quo, such as the Tea Party candidates, are openly lambasted by both party leaders and their media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDGRUEN Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 "sanders-transforms-into-contender" ... despite the state primaries he has won Sanders is NOT A CONTENDER. Not in any fashion... Because the race is RIGGED... the Super Delegates assigned to Hillary Clinton have more final vote power than all of the delegates that Sanders could ever win ... It is built in - the fix is in ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaBlue05 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 (edited) And the media keeps playing the same tune that poor Hillary can't focus on Trump because Bernie won't dry up and disappear. Trump just finished off 17 opponents. If Hillary can't concentrate on 2 at one time when she has a ton of super-delegates already in the bag and a $$B in slush money from god knows who, then I don't know how she intends to be President when she will be confronted by multiple opponents, threats & challenges daily....all far more serious than a "political campaign". Edited May 19, 2016 by NovaBlue05 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publicus Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) If / when Hillary gets the nomination, will have to decide whether better to vote for Trump or stay home Leaning towards voting for Trump , but if he ends up having a love fest with Republican establishment .. Then may be staying home in the fall I would like to see a non bought and paid for candidate get elected Just to see if they could stay true once elected I hope that the super delegates Come to their sense but doubt that will happen Is really quite strange , as Bernie is the epitome of what most democrats say they believe in and want, but the DNC not a fan? Wouldn't be surprised if the reason is that this deal was made in 2008 for Clintons and they money making power to get behind Obama... Perhaps a promise was made that Obama's VP wouldn't run and that Hillary would be the anointed one in 2016... But seems Bernie didn't get the memo ... Who knows , maybe will be surprised and there will be a candidate worth giving full unadulterated support to in the fall... If / when Hillary gets the nomination, will have to decide whether better to vote for Trump or stay home Leaning towards voting for Trump , but if he ends up having a love fest with Republican establishment .. Then may be staying home in the fall The Diogenes thing is wearing a bit thin at this point, as does the Hamlet thingy. You're not the only one so no one should take the observation personally. If the choice some people see is whether to vote for Trump or stay home, then they should pop some corn, crank the recliner and get comfy. “During the primary campaign, Donald Trump savaged Republican donors as corrupt special interests. Now that he is the presumptive Republican nominee, he wants their help,” the Washington Examiner reports. “Trump announced this week that his campaign was forming a joint venture with the Republican National Committee to raise big money from wealthy donors — as much as $449,400 in a single contribution. Trump’s formation of two joint fundraising agreements with the RNC is common practice — and smart." Those who did not anticipate or expect this continue to see the world in black or white. Fact and reality is the mature choice is never between black or white. The mature choice in this election cycle is between the uniquely American Mussolini or a unique American period. Edited May 20, 2016 by Publicus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publicus Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) And the media keeps playing the same tune that poor Hillary can't focus on Trump because Bernie won't dry up and disappear. Trump just finished off 17 opponents. If Hillary can't concentrate on 2 at one time when she has a ton of super-delegates already in the bag and a $$B in slush money from god knows who, then I don't know how she intends to be President when she will be confronted by multiple opponents, threats & challenges daily....all far more serious than a "political campaign". HRC is doing very well despite her inability to make the difficult and challenging look easy, which is fine. What is easy is for any sane person to outsmart the unstable and wild ones. This is an old principle from history, i.e., let the marginals in and disaster is guaranteed. HRC is the bulwark against the marginals in this election cycle. Bernie is the bitter old guy who's lived the past 60 years in the deer shooting countryside of Vermont while Trump is the wild radical billionaire swindler from Manhattan who has nothing in common with the ordinary schmuck other than a gross ignorance. Bernie is the guy who churns his four wheel drive vehicle along the narrow back roads while Trump is the guy who fleeces people at his shiny 21st floor university of the bankrupt. Hillary is doing just fine as a smart survivor while Bernie pounds the table and Trump pounds people in the face. Live with it cause it is the reality. Edited May 20, 2016 by Publicus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWMcMurray Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 If / when Hillary gets the nomination, will have to decide whether better to vote for Trump or stay home Leaning towards voting for Trump , but if he ends up having a love fest with Republican establishment .. Then may be staying home in the fall I would like to see a non bought and paid for candidate get elected Just to see if they could stay true once elected I hope that the super delegates Come to their sense but doubt that will happen Is really quite strange , as Bernie is the epitome of what most democrats say they believe in and want, but the DNC not a fan? Wouldn't be surprised if the reason is that this deal was made in 2008 for Clintons and they money making power to get behind Obama... Perhaps a promise was made that Obama's VP wouldn't run and that Hillary would be the anointed one in 2016... But seems Bernie didn't get the memo ... Who knows , maybe will be surprised and there will be a candidate worth giving full unadulterated support to in the fall... If / when Hillary gets the nomination, will have to decide whether better to vote for Trump or stay home Leaning towards voting for Trump , but if he ends up having a love fest with Republican establishment .. Then may be staying home in the fall The Diogenes thing is wearing a bit thin at this point, as does the Hamlet thingy. You're not the only one so no one should take the observation personally. If the choice some people see is whether to vote for Trump or stay home, then they should pop some corn, crank the recliner and get comfy. “During the primary campaign, Donald Trump savaged Republican donors as corrupt special interests. Now that he is the presumptive Republican nominee, he wants their help,” the Washington Examiner reports. “Trump announced this week that his campaign was forming a joint venture with the Republican National Committee to raise big money from wealthy donors — as much as $449,400 in a single contribution. Trump’s formation of two joint fundraising agreements with the RNC is common practice — and smart." Those who did not anticipate or expect this continue to see the world in black or white. Fact and reality is the mature choice is never between black or white. The mature choice in this election cycle is between the uniquely American Mussolini or a unique American period. Sometimes the mature choice is to think a bit longer term than just one election cycle The US will certainly survive 4 years of Trump ... and if that sends a clear message and forces the DNC to make a significant change that could push them to a better place that will help The country for the next generation ... Or if a win for Hillary reinforces the DNC current practices, that could prevent the same? Yes I know the world is not black or white.. I have nothing against gray 'per se', but that doesn't mean that the best course of action is to just fall in line and do what ever the DNC says... Maybe some believe a Hillary loss is necessary ... Loose a battle to win the war Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up2u2 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 To characterise Bernie as 'bitter' shows political bias. Sure he is pissed off with Superdelegates being locked into Pledged delegate votes essentially shutting down his challenge. Particularly as he has done so well. Also you have competitors getting massive media exposure because of deregulated media regulations. Right from the start these are points Bernie has made and he is accurate. The Democratic system is rigged on both sides of the political fence. Rather than demonise Bernie for pointing out the bleeding obvious people should really question and address the issue as to whether America is any longer a Democratic Nation. In my view it clearly is not a Democratic Nation. Publicus well pointed out regarding the RNC now allowing funds / bribes to flow to Trumps General Election campaign. Looks like the meeting with Paul Ryan and Reince Priebus went well of course he would have to state the RNC pledge of allegiance: "On accepting this bribe money I do solemnly swear to uphold and protect the interests of the wealthy elite and Corporate America who donated the bribes. So help me baby jesus" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmd8800 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 If / when Hillary gets the nomination, will have to decide whether better to vote for Trump or stay home Leaning towards voting for Trump , but if he ends up having a love fest with Republican establishment .. Then may be staying home in the fall I would like to see a non bought and paid for candidate get elected Just to see if they could stay true once elected I hope that the super delegates Come to their sense but doubt that will happen Is really quite strange , as Bernie is the epitome of what most democrats say they believe in and want, but the DNC not a fan? Wouldn't be surprised if the reason is that this deal was made in 2008 for Clintons and they money making power to get behind Obama... Perhaps a promise was made that Obama's VP wouldn't run and that Hillary would be the anointed one in 2016... But seems Bernie didn't get the memo ... Who knows , maybe will be surprised and there will be a candidate worth giving full unadulterated support to in the fall... If / when Hillary gets the nomination, will have to decide whether better to vote for Trump or stay home Leaning towards voting for Trump , but if he ends up having a love fest with Republican establishment .. Then may be staying home in the fall The Diogenes thing is wearing a bit thin at this point, as does the Hamlet thingy. You're not the only one so no one should take the observation personally. If the choice some people see is whether to vote for Trump or stay home, then they should pop some corn, crank the recliner and get comfy. “During the primary campaign, Donald Trump savaged Republican donors as corrupt special interests. Now that he is the presumptive Republican nominee, he wants their help,” the Washington Examiner reports. “Trump announced this week that his campaign was forming a joint venture with the Republican National Committee to raise big money from wealthy donors — as much as $449,400 in a single contribution. Trump’s formation of two joint fundraising agreements with the RNC is common practice — and smart." Those who did not anticipate or expect this continue to see the world in black or white. Fact and reality is the mature choice is never between black or white. The mature choice in this election cycle is between the uniquely American Mussolini or a unique American period. Sometimes the mature choice is to think a bit longer term than just one election cycle The US will certainly survive 4 years of Trump ... and if that sends a clear message and forces the DNC to make a significant change that could push them to a better place that will help The country for the next generation ... Or if a win for Hillary reinforces the DNC current practices, that could prevent the same? Yes I know the world is not black or white.. I have nothing against gray 'per se', but that doesn't mean that the best course of action is to just fall in line and do what ever the DNC says... Maybe some believe a Hillary loss is necessary ... Loose a battle to win the war However we may not survive 4 years of Hillary: http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/12/hillary-clintons-insane-plan-for-a-no-fly-zone.html Sounds to me she is just as crazy as Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publicus Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 If / when Hillary gets the nomination, will have to decide whether better to vote for Trump or stay home Leaning towards voting for Trump , but if he ends up having a love fest with Republican establishment .. Then may be staying home in the fall I would like to see a non bought and paid for candidate get elected Just to see if they could stay true once elected I hope that the super delegates Come to their sense but doubt that will happen Is really quite strange , as Bernie is the epitome of what most democrats say they believe in and want, but the DNC not a fan? Wouldn't be surprised if the reason is that this deal was made in 2008 for Clintons and they money making power to get behind Obama... Perhaps a promise was made that Obama's VP wouldn't run and that Hillary would be the anointed one in 2016... But seems Bernie didn't get the memo ... Who knows , maybe will be surprised and there will be a candidate worth giving full unadulterated support to in the fall... If / when Hillary gets the nomination, will have to decide whether better to vote for Trump or stay home Leaning towards voting for Trump , but if he ends up having a love fest with Republican establishment .. Then may be staying home in the fall The Diogenes thing is wearing a bit thin at this point, as does the Hamlet thingy. You're not the only one so no one should take the observation personally. If the choice some people see is whether to vote for Trump or stay home, then they should pop some corn, crank the recliner and get comfy. “During the primary campaign, Donald Trump savaged Republican donors as corrupt special interests. Now that he is the presumptive Republican nominee, he wants their help,” the Washington Examiner reports. “Trump announced this week that his campaign was forming a joint venture with the Republican National Committee to raise big money from wealthy donors — as much as $449,400 in a single contribution. Trump’s formation of two joint fundraising agreements with the RNC is common practice — and smart." Those who did not anticipate or expect this continue to see the world in black or white. Fact and reality is the mature choice is never between black or white. The mature choice in this election cycle is between the uniquely American Mussolini or a unique American period. Sometimes the mature choice is to think a bit longer term than just one election cycle The US will certainly survive 4 years of Trump ... and if that sends a clear message and forces the DNC to make a significant change that could push them to a better place that will help The country for the next generation ... Or if a win for Hillary reinforces the DNC current practices, that could prevent the same? Yes I know the world is not black or white.. I have nothing against gray 'per se', but that doesn't mean that the best course of action is to just fall in line and do what ever the DNC says... Maybe some believe a Hillary loss is necessary ... Loose a battle to win the war Sometimes the mature choice is to think a bit longer term than just one election cycle Given the statement below one ought to try doing it sometime soon. The US will certainly survive 4 years of Trump ... Wrong again. Donald Trump is a wild intemperate radical strongman who is an ignoramus. History shows us all of it comes in a package. Further, Trump's followers are fans on the fringes of contemporary society that reflect him in his temperamental political-cultural image so they are roused by this once in a lifetime windfall. Hillary Clinton is by definition mainstream -- dull in comparison and contrast and bless her for it. She is the man of the hour in this election cycle. Neither Sanders nor Trump constitute a choice that is either mainstream or safe. The choice is before us presently in the current election cycle so speculating about the next election cycle four years from now is innane and it is an idiosyncratic wishful fantasising from the rationalising fringe. Neither the Trump nor the Sanders fans should expect the vast majority of Americans to get sapped into false transactions that deal with shallow criticisms which have no realistic, practical or thought through solutions or approaches. Or that are predicated on some promise or prediction of what will be the next election cycle, in 2020 never mind beyond then. It has become more than obvious that Trump and Sanders are off in their own orbits beyond the clouds. Americans have always known the sky is the limit which is both optimistic and wise because after that there is no oxygen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckd Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) To characterise Bernie as 'bitter' shows political bias. Sure he is pissed off with Superdelegates being locked into Pledged delegate votes essentially shutting down his challenge. Particularly as he has done so well. Also you have competitors getting massive media exposure because of deregulated media regulations. Right from the start these are points Bernie has made and he is accurate. The Democratic system is rigged on both sides of the political fence. Rather than demonise Bernie for pointing out the bleeding obvious people should really question and address the issue as to whether America is any longer a Democratic Nation. In my view it clearly is not a Democratic Nation. Publicus well pointed out regarding the RNC now allowing funds / bribes to flow to Trumps General Election campaign. Looks like the meeting with Paul Ryan and Reince Priebus went well of course he would have to state the RNC pledge of allegiance: "On accepting this bribe money I do solemnly swear to uphold and protect the interests of the wealthy elite and Corporate America who donated the bribes. So help me baby jesus" " In my view it clearly is not a Democratic Nation." Congratulations, you finally got something right about the US. The US is not a democratic nation nor does it claim to be. It is a Constitutional Republic. Edited May 20, 2016 by chuckd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up2u2 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 To characterise Bernie as 'bitter' shows political bias. Sure he is pissed off with Superdelegates being locked into Pledged delegate votes essentially shutting down his challenge. Particularly as he has done so well. Also you have competitors getting massive media exposure because of deregulated media regulations. Right from the start these are points Bernie has made and he is accurate. The Democratic system is rigged on both sides of the political fence. Rather than demonise Bernie for pointing out the bleeding obvious people should really question and address the issue as to whether America is any longer a Democratic Nation. In my view it clearly is not a Democratic Nation. Publicus well pointed out regarding the RNC now allowing funds / bribes to flow to Trumps General Election campaign. Looks like the meeting with Paul Ryan and Reince Priebus went well of course he would have to state the RNC pledge of allegiance: "On accepting this bribe money I do solemnly swear to uphold and protect the interests of the wealthy elite and Corporate America who donated the bribes. So help me baby jesus" " In my view it clearly is not a Democratic Nation." Congratulations, you finally got something right about the US. The US is not a democratic nation nor does it claim to be. It is a Constitutional Republic. It is both a Republic and a Democracy. Due to the corruption by the wealthy elite and Corporate America it currently is neither a Republic or a Democracy. Also the Executive Branch of Government should be separate from the Judiciary. Again it is not, as partisan political Justices are appointed to do the bidding of Political agendas on both sides of politics. Its a awful mess of Capitalists capturing the State and the Judiciary. The connection between the People and the State is broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWMcMurray Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 If / when Hillary gets the nomination, will have to decide whether better to vote for Trump or stay home Leaning towards voting for Trump , but if he ends up having a love fest with Republican establishment .. Then may be staying home in the fall I would like to see a non bought and paid for candidate get elected Just to see if they could stay true once elected I hope that the super delegates Come to their sense but doubt that will happen Is really quite strange , as Bernie is the epitome of what most democrats say they believe in and want, but the DNC not a fan? Wouldn't be surprised if the reason is that this deal was made in 2008 for Clintons and they money making power to get behind Obama... Perhaps a promise was made that Obama's VP wouldn't run and that Hillary would be the anointed one in 2016... But seems Bernie didn't get the memo ... Who knows , maybe will be surprised and there will be a candidate worth giving full unadulterated support to in the fall... If / when Hillary gets the nomination, will have to decide whether better to vote for Trump or stay home Leaning towards voting for Trump , but if he ends up having a love fest with Republican establishment .. Then may be staying home in the fall The Diogenes thing is wearing a bit thin at this point, as does the Hamlet thingy. You're not the only one so no one should take the observation personally. If the choice some people see is whether to vote for Trump or stay home, then they should pop some corn, crank the recliner and get comfy. “During the primary campaign, Donald Trump savaged Republican donors as corrupt special interests. Now that he is the presumptive Republican nominee, he wants their help,” the Washington Examiner reports. “Trump announced this week that his campaign was forming a joint venture with the Republican National Committee to raise big money from wealthy donors — as much as $449,400 in a single contribution. Trump’s formation of two joint fundraising agreements with the RNC is common practice — and smart." Those who did not anticipate or expect this continue to see the world in black or white. Fact and reality is the mature choice is never between black or white. The mature choice in this election cycle is between the uniquely American Mussolini or a unique American period. Sometimes the mature choice is to think a bit longer term than just one election cycleThe US will certainly survive 4 years of Trump ... and if that sends a clear message and forces the DNC to make a significant change that could push them to a better place that will help The country for the next generation ... Or if a win for Hillary reinforces the DNC current practices, that could prevent the same? Yes I know the world is not black or white.. I have nothing against gray 'per se', but that doesn't mean that the best course of action is to just fall in line and do what ever the DNC says... Maybe some believe a Hillary loss is necessary ... Loose a battle to win the war Sometimes the mature choice is to think a bit longer term than just one election cycle Given the statement below one ought to try doing it sometime soon. The US will certainly survive 4 years of Trump ... Wrong again. Donald Trump is a wild intemperate radical strongman who is an ignoramus. History shows us all of it comes in a package. Further, Trump's followers are fans on the fringes of contemporary society that reflect him in his temperamental political-cultural image so they are roused by this once in a lifetime windfall. Hillary Clinton is by definition mainstream -- dull in comparison and contrast and bless her for it. She is the man of the hour in this election cycle. Neither Sanders nor Trump constitute a choice that is either mainstream or safe. The choice is before us presently in the current election cycle so speculating about the next election cycle four years from now is innane and it is an idiosyncratic wishful fantasising from the rationalising fringe. Neither the Trump nor the Sanders fans should expect the vast majority of Americans to get sapped into false transactions that deal with shallow criticisms which have no realistic, practical or thought through solutions or approaches. Or that are predicated on some promise or prediction of what will be the next election cycle, in 2020 never mind beyond then. It has become more than obvious that Trump and Sanders are off in their own orbits beyond the clouds. Americans have always known the sky is the limit which is both optimistic and wise because after that there is no oxygen. So again you are always right and everyone else with the the gall to a different opinion is wrong? Your opinion is the only valid opinion? You have the tenancy to post your opinion as if it was undeniable fact. I disagree with your opinion and just because it is not the same as yours... Does not make it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publicus Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 If / when Hillary gets the nomination, will have to decide whether better to vote for Trump or stay home Leaning towards voting for Trump , but if he ends up having a love fest with Republican establishment .. Then may be staying home in the fall The Diogenes thing is wearing a bit thin at this point, as does the Hamlet thingy. You're not the only one so no one should take the observation personally. If the choice some people see is whether to vote for Trump or stay home, then they should pop some corn, crank the recliner and get comfy. “During the primary campaign, Donald Trump savaged Republican donors as corrupt special interests. Now that he is the presumptive Republican nominee, he wants their help,” the Washington Examiner reports. “Trump announced this week that his campaign was forming a joint venture with the Republican National Committee to raise big money from wealthy donors — as much as $449,400 in a single contribution. Trump’s formation of two joint fundraising agreements with the RNC is common practice — and smart." Those who did not anticipate or expect this continue to see the world in black or white. Fact and reality is the mature choice is never between black or white. The mature choice in this election cycle is between the uniquely American Mussolini or a unique American period. Sometimes the mature choice is to think a bit longer term than just one election cycleThe US will certainly survive 4 years of Trump ... and if that sends a clear message and forces the DNC to make a significant change that could push them to a better place that will help The country for the next generation ... Or if a win for Hillary reinforces the DNC current practices, that could prevent the same? Yes I know the world is not black or white.. I have nothing against gray 'per se', but that doesn't mean that the best course of action is to just fall in line and do what ever the DNC says... Maybe some believe a Hillary loss is necessary ... Loose a battle to win the war Sometimes the mature choice is to think a bit longer term than just one election cycle Given the statement below one ought to try doing it sometime soon. The US will certainly survive 4 years of Trump ... Wrong again. Donald Trump is a wild intemperate radical strongman who is an ignoramus. History shows us all of it comes in a package. Further, Trump's followers are fans on the fringes of contemporary society that reflect him in his temperamental political-cultural image so they are roused by this once in a lifetime windfall. Hillary Clinton is by definition mainstream -- dull in comparison and contrast and bless her for it. She is the man of the hour in this election cycle. Neither Sanders nor Trump constitute a choice that is either mainstream or safe. The choice is before us presently in the current election cycle so speculating about the next election cycle four years from now is innane and it is an idiosyncratic wishful fantasising from the rationalising fringe. Neither the Trump nor the Sanders fans should expect the vast majority of Americans to get sapped into false transactions that deal with shallow criticisms which have no realistic, practical or thought through solutions or approaches. Or that are predicated on some promise or prediction of what will be the next election cycle, in 2020 never mind beyond then. It has become more than obvious that Trump and Sanders are off in their own orbits beyond the clouds. Americans have always known the sky is the limit which is both optimistic and wise because after that there is no oxygen. So again you are always right and everyone else with the the gall to a different opinion is wrong? Your opinion is the only valid opinion? You have the tenancy to post your opinion as if it was undeniable fact. I disagree with your opinion and just because it is not the same as yours... Does not make it wrong. Kindly read my signature thx. Take my word for it, this poster gets plenty of cricisim and critiques, disagreement, lectures, scoldings and the like. No poster ever needs reminding in specific terms that his views and opinions are his own and that there are other points of view. All the same this poster has already pointed out to the extremist right that they've lost every battle of the past 60 years that they have stormed out to fight. From Brown v Board and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to equality of marriage and gender the right has lost 'em all. So now with Trump comes their rear guard action. The last loud shriek of the far out fringe rightwhingers. And it is happening now, not in 2020. Hard actually to talk about the 2020 campaign and election of Potus when we're in the middle of a raging one happening in 2016, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up2u2 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 A very honourable pursuit indeed Plublicus studium gloriae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWMcMurray Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) Unfortunately can't read any signatures... It won't show up on phone app. I'm happy with all the SCOTUS cases you mention... Believe the correct outcome was reached I am not a far right guy .. But some how you try to say that anyone who disagrees with you must be far right republican ? Also while some may not be able to look to 2020 ... That does not mean some of us can not . Yes presidential elections are important but 1 presidential election cycle is not the most important thing I focus on where this country will be when my kids are grown, when my grandkids are born... If the candidates in 1 presidential election are useless.. Then yes, I can start to look towards the next election and can form an opinion on what I think may be required in this election cycle to have a chance for better candidate for 2020 I know you disagree with my opinion, and that's fine... I don't dismiss or ridicule your belief. You have every right to it... I may disagree and I may think differently, but at the end of the day ... That is ok.. I am not sure if it is intentional or not, but seems that in many cases you Can come across as condescending Although haven't completely given up on this election yet and still following closely and genuinely hope that my opinion will change before November Although as things are at this stage.. If Trump and Hillary.. Likely to vote against Hillary or stay home; as genuinely think it would benefit the Democratic Party in the long term to have Hillary loose and DNC to take another look at itself But still far too early to say everything is set in stone. I will watch and do not rule out that my thoughts may change. Edited May 20, 2016 by CWMcMurray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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