Sanders transforms into contender, still pitches revolution

[CWMcMurray]

Everytime Socialism is tried it ends in disaster. Is that what you Sanders fans wish for America?

Venezuela Drifts Into New Territory: Hunger, Blackouts and Government Shutdown

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/28/world/americas/venezuela-economic-government-collapse.html?_r=1

That's called end-stage Socialism folks...

Total socialism.... No.. Absolutely not...

All private industries should and would remain private industrials under a Bernie presidency ..

He is just talking about removing the loop holes in the tax structures that allow these private , for profit, capitalistic organizations to avoid paying their taxes

Also the same for very rich individuals..

I have never Heard him talk about government take over if any private industries in this election

He is just talking about taking corporate money out of politics, ensuring all private companies and individuals pay their fair share of taxes and using that mi EY to benefit all in society through programs like government single payer health care and public education at public universities ...

Health care and schooling does not make a socialist society... Government taking over ownership of private companies and government control of the means of production . Makes for socialism

Edited May 29, 2016 by CWMcMurray

[sirineou]

By now everyone is aware that Sanders is embarrassed by the collapse of Venezuela and refuses to answer questions re that country:

LEÓN KRAUZE, UNIVISION:

I am sure that you know about this topic: various leftist governments, especially the populists, are in serious trouble in Latin America. The socialist model in Venezuela has the country near collapse. Argentina, also Brazil, how do you explain that failure?

BERNIE SANDERS, DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE:

You are asking me questions…

LEÓN KRAUZE, UNIVISION:

I am sure you’re interested in that.

BERNIE SANDERS, DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE:

I am very interested, but right now I’m running for President of the United States.

LEÓN KRAUZE, UNIVISION:

So you don’t have an opinion about the crisis in Venezuela?

BERNIE SANDERS, DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE:

Of course I have an opinion, but as I said, I’m focused on my campaign.

Butt, butt, butt…you’re running for President of the United States in order to turn it into a socialist paradise like Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela. Couldn’t you take a moment to explain how that will work?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/venezuela/11385294/Venezuelas-socialist-paradise-turns-into-a-nightmare-medical-shortages-claim-lives-as-oil-price-collapses.html

Waiting in line in Caracas supermarket to buy toilet paper

"Butt, butt, butt…you’re running for President of the United States in order to turn it into a socialist paradise like Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela. Couldn’t you take a moment to explain how that will work? "

Start with a false premise , then base your who;e argument on that premise.

once again and I will try to talk slow so that you might understand.

Venezuela's problems are not caused by it's socialist programs. Venezuela's problems are caused by an unstable world capitalist system of economic Boom and Bust, that has depressed oil prices, Venezuela's main export.

Venezuela, or any country who's economy depends on Oil or any commodity depressed by the current capitalist bust,would be in trouble regardless of it's political orientation.

But then again if you could understand the above, you would also understand that Trump is blowing smoke up your .....

[sgtsabai]

Hey, trying to talk to the right wingnuts is a waste of time. They can't handle the facts or the truth. Pointy head pea brain overload. As far as an earlier post goes, no, wrong again. The American people need these debates so for once they may be able to make an educated choice. Then again, the right wingnuts wouldn't know an education if they saw one.......

: http://www.alternet.org/print/election-2016/neo-fascist-movement-trump-helped-create



https://theintercept.com/2016/05/23/hillary-clinton-fracking/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/les-leopold/why-bernies-strong-poll-n_b_10146980.html

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Hillary-Clinton-Has-No-Mor-by-Ron-Madden-Caucus_Contest_Delegates_Democratic-160528-806.html



http://www.alternet.org/print/economy/sorry-conservatives-theres-no-mention-capitalism-our-constitution

[NovaBlue05]

We can also cross our fingers and hope Hillary gets indicted before convention...

Do I think I will happen? Not likely.. But not because she is innocent ...

More likely she will be protected by administration to avoid prosecution ...

Although can still hope indictment comes through before convention.. As that could definitely give super delegates reason to change votes to Bernie

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/dear-fbi-the-democratic-p_b_9784334.html

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21699454-democratic-front-runner-mired-scandal-her-own-nurturing-already-indicted

Maybe Obama will have an epiphany, forget his corporate party allegiance , realize the Country is more important and call Loretta Lynch to tell her to pull the trigger on the indictment.

Nahhhhh.

Edited May 29, 2016 by NovaBlue05

[sirineou]

We can also cross our fingers and hope Hillary gets indicted before convention...

Do I think I will happen? Not likely.. But not because she is innocent ...

More likely she will be protected by administration to avoid prosecution ...

Although can still hope indictment comes through before convention.. As that could definitely give super delegates reason to change votes to Bernie

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/dear-fbi-the-democratic-p_b_9784334.html

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21699454-democratic-front-runner-mired-scandal-her-own-nurturing-already-indicted

Maybe Obama will have an epiphany, forget his corporate party allegiance , realize the Country is more important and call Loretta Lynch to tell her to pull the trigger on the indictment.

Nahhhhh.

after Obama gained the nomination Obama and Hillary made a deal. She would support his campaign to be president, and when he won she would be offered a cabinet position to pad up her resume , and after her term was over

she will have her turn with the full support of the democratic establishment.

Wall street knew that that's why they paid her as much as they did to have her speak at their events.

The game is rigged, was rigged from the begging when she got all these "supper delegates" before one vote was casted.

[Johpa]

Ever wonder why Sanders isn't talking about Venezuela?A bit too close to home

Venezuela is a third world country where the primary source of revenue is the extraction of a natural resource, in this case oil. There is nothing remotely similar in situation between the US and Venezuela, nothing even close.

Oh, my mistake. Lumping all these Socialists in one basket. Different kinds of Socialists I guess, huh? Like National Socialists which we really don't want to talk about because from murder and genocide, what exactly don't you like about

Yep, your mistake again, as well as the mistake of the author you link to. The "National Socialists" were a Fascist political group and not a socialist group. Ignore the Orwellian language used by political parties for naming purposes. By the way, the Homeland Security Act can be argued to be the closest thing to the German National Socialist Party legislation of the 1930s than anything else. Not surprising when Prescott Bush and his peers were big fans of European Fascism. The Fascists won that war. They may have failed in their attempted coup of 1933 but succeeded in 1963.

[NovaBlue05]

We can also cross our fingers and hope Hillary gets indicted before convention...

Do I think I will happen? Not likely.. But not because she is innocent ...

More likely she will be protected by administration to avoid prosecution ...

Although can still hope indictment comes through before convention.. As that could definitely give super delegates reason to change votes to Bernie

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/dear-fbi-the-democratic-p_b_9784334.html

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21699454-democratic-front-runner-mired-scandal-her-own-nurturing-already-indicted

Maybe Obama will have an epiphany, forget his corporate party allegiance , realize the Country is more important and call Loretta Lynch to tell her to pull the trigger on the indictment.

Nahhhhh.

after Obama gained the nomination Obama and Hillary made a deal. She would support his campaign to be president, and when he won she would be offered a cabinet position to pad up her resume , and after her term was over

she will have her turn with the full support of the democratic establishment.

Wall street knew that that's why they paid her as much as they did to have her speak at their events.

The game is rigged, was rigged from the begging when she got all these "supper delegates" before one vote was casted.

Oh , there was a deal all right, but it was between Bill & Obama. Obama needed Bill's endorsement way more than Hillary's.....which on it's own would probably be more damaging than beneficial. In return, Bill needed Obama to keep Hillary as far away from him as possible....preferably out of the country.

The Hillary lemmings, and you know who you are, should be happy with Trump in the race. If it weren't for Trump, Bernie would have absolutely no good reason to, and many better reasons not to, offer her his support

[jmd8800]

Everytime Socialism is tried it ends in disaster. Is that what you Sanders fans wish for America?

Venezuela Drifts Into New Territory: Hunger, Blackouts and Government Shutdown

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/28/world/americas/venezuela-economic-government-collapse.html?_r=1

That's called end-stage Socialism folks...

Are you suggesting that democracy has a better track record?

P.S many economist say we are in late stage capitalism.

[Johpa]

Everytime Socialism is tried it ends in disaster. Is that what you Sanders fans wish for America?

Most of western Europe has socialism embedded into the political economy, some countries more than others. The countries with more socialism, the Scandinavian countries, all have had more success with health, education, and overall quality of life than the US. The awaiting disaster is here where I am, in the US, where, as the brilliant economist Michael Hudson notes, the financial parasites of cowboy capitalism are destroying the host just as Marx foresaw.

So do not confuse third world socialism, as FOX news erroneously does, with the rather successful democratic socialism of the industrialized nations that Sanders partially endorses. And even the failures of third world socialism have more to do with having to exist within a global financial economy controlled by forces that are aligned against them, surrounded by economic hit men with both their leaders and economy in their sights in such a manner as that they have little chance to succeed.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.

[boomerangutang]

By now everyone is aware that Sanders is embarrassed by the collapse of Venezuela and refuses to answer questions re that country:

Very sensible. Venezuela is Venezuela. Bernie is running a campaign for the nomination. He could talk about any one of thousands of issues or hundreds of countries, but if they don't relate to the campaign, then why should he waste his time? Plus it's a gotcha question. No matter what he says, the Rep Attack Machine will try to paint it with brushes dipped in tarnish (yes, rhymes with varnish). He's no more embarassed by problems in Venezuela than he is by bombing the Bamian Buddha by the Taliban. 'embarrassed?' .....what a silly choice of a word for that point that you didn't make.

Everytime Socialism is tried it ends in disaster. Is that what you Sanders fans wish for America?

Are Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, Norway disasters? I think not. They've got more equality, better education, health care for all, more content folks, and less fatties than the US. And they're not hiding behind steel doors cradling guns, hoping some bad guy will try to break in so they can blow his brains all over the lawn.

[Boon Mee]

Heh...if Sanders is still pitching revolution he better try to stay awake!

[Jingthing]

Bye Bye Bernie!

Welcome aboard the Hillary Clinton for president campaign!

[up2u2]

You're a quitter Feinstein! With 'friends' like her who needs enemies.

She forgot to mention the subscript on the wall 'Bernie is the stronger candidate'

Bernie's going all the way to the convention.

[Jingthing]

Where he will lose and perhaps infect the democratic platform with policies so radical that they trash Hillary's chances. Thanks for nothing! Clinton will be nominated without actually NEEDING super delegates. Bernie's people spread the lie that the nomination was fixed. It wasn't. He just didn't get enough of votes and delegates. Now Hillary has gotten about THREE MILLION votes than Bernie. You may prefer Bernie, but really, he really did lose and you've got to respect the decision of the democrats on who to nominate.

[up2u2]

Where he will lose and perhaps infect the democratic platform with policies so radical that they trash Hillary's chances. Thanks for nothing! Clinton will be nominated without actually NEEDING super delegates. Bernie's people spread the lie that the nomination was fixed. It wasn't. He just didn't get enough of votes and delegates. Now Hillary has gotten about THREE MILLION votes than Bernie. You may prefer Bernie, but really, he really did lose and you've got to respect the decision of the democrats on who to nominate.

JT is there any mechanism in the American political system that if a President is found to be grossly incompetent that he can be removed from Office?

[Jingthing]

Where he will lose and perhaps infect the democratic platform with policies so radical that they trash Hillary's chances. Thanks for nothing! Clinton will be nominated without actually NEEDING super delegates. Bernie's people spread the lie that the nomination was fixed. It wasn't. He just didn't get enough of votes and delegates. Now Hillary has gotten about THREE MILLION votes than Bernie. You may prefer Bernie, but really, he really did lose and you've got to respect the decision of the democrats on who to nominate.

JT is there any mechanism in the American political system that if a President is found to be grossly incompetent that he can be removed from Office?

There is impeachment but that normally wouldn't be done only for perception of incompetence (that's subjective) and certainly not only for unpopularity. It's not a parliamentary system. There are no "no confidence" votes. This is both a strength and weakness of the U.S. system.

[up2u2]

Where he will lose and perhaps infect the democratic platform with policies so radical that they trash Hillary's chances. Thanks for nothing! Clinton will be nominated without actually NEEDING super delegates. Bernie's people spread the lie that the nomination was fixed. It wasn't. He just didn't get enough of votes and delegates. Now Hillary has gotten about THREE MILLION votes than Bernie. You may prefer Bernie, but really, he really did lose and you've got to respect the decision of the democrats on who to nominate.

JT is there any mechanism in the American political system that if a President is found to be grossly incompetent that he can be removed from Office?

There is impeachment but that normally wouldn't be done only for perception of incompetence (that's subjective) and certainly not only for unpopularity. It's not a parliamentary system. There are no "no confidence" votes. This is both a strength and weakness of the U.S. system.

So if President Trump decided one morning to launch a Nuclear Strike against China, Congress could not quickly meet and take a vote of 'No Confidence' remove Trump from Office and form a caretaker government till an election can be held?

[NovaBlue05]

Where he will lose and perhaps infect the democratic platform with policies so radical that they trash Hillary's chances. Thanks for nothing! Clinton will be nominated without actually NEEDING super delegates. Bernie's people spread the lie that the nomination was fixed. It wasn't. He just didn't get enough of votes and delegates. Now Hillary has gotten about THREE MILLION votes than Bernie. You may prefer Bernie, but really, he really did lose and you've got to respect the decision of the democrats on who to nominate.

JT is there any mechanism in the American political system that if a President is found to be grossly incompetent that he can be removed from Office?

There is impeachment but that normally wouldn't be done only for perception of incompetence (that's subjective) and certainly not only for unpopularity. It's not a parliamentary system. There are no "no confidence" votes. This is both a strength and weakness of the U.S. system.

So if President Trump decided one morning to launch a Nuclear Strike against China, Congress could not quickly meet and take a vote of 'No Confidence' remove Trump from Office and form a caretaker government till an election can be held?

Congress would immediately launch into an investigation to remove the President from power....at least the opposing Party, as a first priority with pre-empting the nuclear strike a secondary consideration

[Jingthing]

Correct.

No no confidence option.

Impeachment possible if there are legal grounds.

Buy historically successful impeachment unlikely.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Jingthing

[NovaBlue05]

Bye Bye Bernie!

Welcome aboard the Hillary Clinton for president campaign!

A True Believer......

Besides having media, money & a system skewed to favor her, she nonetheless still has an army of acolytes worshiping her.

[jmd8800]

Where he will lose and perhaps infect the democratic platform with policies so radical that they trash Hillary's chances. Thanks for nothing! Clinton will be nominated without actually NEEDING super delegates. Bernie's people spread the lie that the nomination was fixed. It wasn't. He just didn't get enough of votes and delegates. Now Hillary has gotten about THREE MILLION votes than Bernie. You may prefer Bernie, but really, he really did lose and you've got to respect the decision of the democrats on who to nominate.

JT is there any mechanism in the American political system that if a President is found to be grossly incompetent that he can be removed from Office?

There is impeachment but that normally wouldn't be done only for perception of incompetence (that's subjective) and certainly not only for unpopularity. It's not a parliamentary system. There are no "no confidence" votes. This is both a strength and weakness of the U.S. system.

So if President Trump decided one morning to launch a Nuclear Strike against China, Congress could not quickly meet and take a vote of 'No Confidence' remove Trump from Office and form a caretaker government till an election can be held?

It is not quite that simple. There are checks and balances..however corrupted they have become over the last 30-40 years. There are matters of preemptive strike or response. Has there been previous intelligence raising the alert level? (I think there are 15 levels) .. etc. It is not like The Donald can change his tag line to "They're Fired" all by himself. I'm sure if he woke up from a bad dream and decided to destroy the world there are systems in place. At least I hope so. Having said that there have been reports of potential exchanges with Russia over the years that thankfully were never completed. Mistakes made by both sides.

However, your point is one that has plagued the US for a long time. For years the executive branch has been using tactics to avoid the 'checks and balances' incorporated into our system. Truthfully, it is all 3 branches of the US gov't that have been circumventing these checks and balances.

To think that any of these *non mainstream* candidates will get into office and do as they wish is utter nonsense. Most of Trump's platform is likely in direct conflict with what is written in the US constitution. Of course... Bill and Hillary Clinton, Obama, Bush 1 & 2 didn't care about the constitution either but they were 'team players'. Trump would be roped and tied if he tried to do what he says he wanted to do. So would Bernie ..just less so than Trump as he is not as dangerous.

The powers that be in Washington DC and globally are not going to let him do as he pleases.

Edited May 31, 2016 by jmd8800

[SpokaneAl]

Where he will lose and perhaps infect the democratic platform with policies so radical that they trash Hillary's chances. Thanks for nothing! Clinton will be nominated without actually NEEDING super delegates. Bernie's people spread the lie that the nomination was fixed. It wasn't. He just didn't get enough of votes and delegates. Now Hillary has gotten about THREE MILLION votes than Bernie. You may prefer Bernie, but really, he really did lose and you've got to respect the decision of the democrats on who to nominate.

JT is there any mechanism in the American political system that if a President is found to be grossly incompetent that he can be removed from Office?

There is impeachment but that normally wouldn't be done only for perception of incompetence (that's subjective) and certainly not only for unpopularity. It's not a parliamentary system. There are no "no confidence" votes. This is both a strength and weakness of the U.S. system.

So if President Trump decided one morning to launch a Nuclear Strike against China, Congress could not quickly meet and take a vote of 'No Confidence' remove Trump from Office and form a caretaker government till an election can be held?

It is not quite that simple. There are checks and balances..however corrupted they have become over the last 30-40 years. There are matters of preemptive strike or response. Has there been previous intelligence raising the alert level? (I think there are 15 levels) .. etc. It is not like The Donald can change his tag line to "They're Fired" all by himself. I'm sure if he woke up from a bad dream and decided to destroy the world there are systems in place. At least I hope so. Having said that there have been reports of potential exchanges with Russia over the years that thankfully were never completed. Mistakes made by both sides.

However, your point is one that has plagued the US for a long time. For years the executive branch has been using tactics to avoid the 'checks and balances' incorporated into our system. Truthfully, it is all 3 branches of the US gov't that have been circumventing these checks and balances.

To think that any of these *non mainstream* candidates will get into office and do as they wish is utter nonsense. Most of Trump's platform is likely in direct conflict with what is written in the US constitution. Of course... Bill and Hillary Clinton, Obama, Bush 1 & 2 didn't care about the constitution either but they were 'team players'. Trump would be roped and tied if he tried to do what he says he wanted to do. So would Bernie ..just less so than Trump as he is not as dangerous.

The powers that be in Washington DC and globally are not going to let him do as he pleases.

Congress can convene and pass a no confidence vote, but that vote holds no power in itself, other than to inform.

[Johpa]

You're a quitter Feinstein! With 'friends' like her who needs enemies.

Feinstein, just like her favorite candidate, the "Queen of Chaos", Hillary Clinton, is unable to tell the truth. If there is one politician who has never seen passion in their campaigns it is Diane Feinstein. I even doubt she has seen passion in any aspect of her life, but that is pure speculation on my part. But for her to insinuate that she understands, and has experienced the passion of the Sanders followers is just an outright lie.

[lannarebirth]

You're a quitter Feinstein! With 'friends' like her who needs enemies.

Feinstein, just like her favorite candidate, the "Queen of Chaos", Hillary Clinton, is unable to tell the truth. If there is one politician who has never seen passion in their campaigns it is Diane Feinstein. I even doubt she has seen passion in any aspect of her life, but that is pure speculation on my part. But for her to insinuate that she understands, and has experienced the passion of the Sanders followers is just an outright lie.

Feinstein and her husband Richard Blum would appear to be quite passionate about the accumulation of power and wealth.

http://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=Richard_C._Blum_and_Dianne_Feinstein:_The_Power_Couple_of_California

[jmd8800]

Feinstein and Boxer were my Senators when I lived in California before coming to LOS. Boxer was the more redeeming of the two. At least she voted against NAFTA. But neither are really all that liberal.

California is not really liberal anymore. When I moved there in the middle 80s it was considered socially liberal and fiscally conservative by many. California is a prime example of income inequality of the USA. As long as white upper and middle class jobs (mostly for whites) is available the education, hospitals and other infrastructure is in place. According to an economics school at UCLA, Los Angeles is in the company of only 2 other cities in the USA to have a negative job growth since 1990. The other two are Cleveland and Detroit. Silicon Valley itself might be ok..but surrounding areas are probably not.

During the aerospace years California had an excellent Community College system that was was basically free to attend. Even today the system costs probably less than $500 per semester plus books for full time.

So yes the answer to Bernie's free univ tuition can be done. It already has been done.

[Johpa]

Feinstein and her husband Richard Blum would appear to be quite passionate about the accumulation of power and wealth.

I stand corrected but I imagine the real passion is protecting their wealth from taxation by maintaining the current status quo of low taxes on unearned income.

[arjunadawn]

A True Believer......

Besides having media, money & a system skewed to favor her, she nonetheless still has an army of acolytes worshiping her.

I try to refrain from commenting on people rather then the issue/candidate, but this point is the people.

It is no wonder Sanders has any traction when 50% of Clinton supporters say she could keep running even if indicted. This reasoning, this moral turpitude, is exactly why we see the militant insurgency infecting America- it comports perfectly with her own moral compass. Those on the Right had better get a grip, they are not opposing people following the same rules. The concept of 'any means' is not abstract to these people. They want to steal the Republic, period!

Since I am only referring to the 50% noted in the report there is no reason for the morally right to take umbrage.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/may_2016/50_say_clinton_should_keep_running_even_if_indicted

[sirineou]

A True Believer......

Besides having media, money & a system skewed to favor her, she nonetheless still has an army of acolytes worshiping her.

I try to refrain from commenting on people rather then the issue/candidate, but this point is the people.

It is no wonder Sanders has any traction when 50% of Clinton supporters say she could keep running even if indicted. This reasoning, this moral turpitude, is exactly why we see the militant insurgency infecting America- it comports perfectly with her own moral compass. Those on the Right had better get a grip, they are not opposing people following the same rules. The concept of 'any means' is not abstract to these people. They want to steal the Republic, period!

Since I am only referring to the 50% noted in the report there is no reason for the morally right to take umbrage.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/may_2016/50_say_clinton_should_keep_running_even_if_indicted

are you kidding?

Trump said " "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, okay, and I wouldn't lose any voters, " and you think the left "want to steal the republic" because they would support Hillary even if she got indited?????

[Jingthing]

Sanders isn't going to be nominated. That's obvious by now.

I have a question ... do you think Hillary Clinton can get at least 70 percent of Sander's supports, assuming Sanders endorses Clinton, which he obviously will?

Because according to recent electoral college analysis in Wapo, that would translate into a HUGE lead for Clinton over the vile monster.

I realize the active Sanders fans here are more like never Hillary types, but OBJECTIVELY do you think the 70 percent is possible?