Police close in on foreign gang murdering Spanish businessman

[momtaz]

Very simple... where the money has been transferred? or which name collected that amount?

ATM camera footage, calls since he entered Thailand, or even the victim previous connections before he landed here,

It looks like and highly possible that he was attracted to come here and killed immediately, so they have to roll back and investigate all his calls, emails etc, certainly the trap is there to capture all culprits, I wish they cut them into parts or just throw them to feed crocodiles,

[silent]

I don't see how they have planned this in every detail?

1) they didn't bother adding weight to the body parts ensuring that they would not resurface

2) it looks like he was kidnapped whilst entering his condo. No cctv footage?

3) no cctv footage at the banks or ATMs?

Poor guy obviously didn't know about keying in his PIN code in reverse to alert authorities

RIP

What a wonderful idea, I thought... Key in PIN in reverse... I had never heard of that, nor had the wife... So I took " Ireason's" advise, and jumped on Google.

Naaaa... It's a myth.

Apparently the idea has been patented, and there was a hoax about it in 2012, but as yet, (2014) banks have not implemented a "panic" code system.

this article says the technology is there but not many banks use it........http://www.hoaxorfact.com/Technology/enter-your-atm-pin-in-reverse-to-call-police.html

Note to self. Change bank so they kill you on the spot and don't have a chance to kidnap and dismember.

[silent]

I'm poor - no-one wants to murder me !

Don't bank on it

[balo]

Cameras from the ATMs should prove extremely vital.

Linked to an account in Singapore, foreign gangs? Chinese triads? This guy was Spanish and I doubt any western European gangs have a serious foothold here, Russian? Burmese?

Why are they so sure about this?

Why do you think it is a western European gang ? If not Thai it could be Chinese, or Iranians behind this, he stayed in Iran before he arrived BKK, that alone is suspicious . The reason police suspect foreign criminals is most probably the money transfers , and maybe also CCTV footage.

Edited February 5, 2016 by balo

[mrrizzla]

Cameras from the ATMs should prove extremely vital.

Linked to an account in Singapore, foreign gangs? Chinese triads? This guy was Spanish and I doubt any western European gangs have a serious foothold here, Russian? Burmese?

Why are they so sure about this?

Why do you think it is a western European gang ? If not Thai it could be Chinese, or Iranians behind this, he stayed in Iran before he arrived BKK, that alone is suspicious . The reason police suspect foreign criminals is most probably the money transfers , and maybe also CCTV footage.

I said I doubted it. But now the cops are after another Spaniard. Guess we'll see how this one unfolds.

[iReason]

@Post #88

Alright, challenge accepted.

Let’s review your posts shall we?

#73

“there is nothing in the transcript on either The Daily News or Thai Rath to confirm that, he said 'because the crimes was so audacious or brazen.”

(In that bold font you abhor so much)

That is absolutely correct.

There is not a transcript anywhere, that characterized the crimes as “so audacious or brazen”

That’s just something you made up.

And certainly nothing I quoted.

#77

“I read somewhere…”

“this could have enraged the gang...”

Just made-up speculation substantiated by nothing.

I post published, source based, quotes and links.

Not pointless armchair conjecture.

#84

“to convey the impression Police General Panya believed Thais were involved in the Koh Tao murders.”

Well, of course he did.

And in rapid fashion.

(This is the part where you should “Get with it”)

#88

“Why refer to Panya in the Koh Tao thread?”

Really?

Another “get with it” moment…

P.S. And get the quote right:

“We tend to believe there were Thai nationals involved since the murder was so outrageous.”

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1454582453&typecate=06&section=

Edited February 5, 2016 by iReason

[German Viking]

"The latest transaction of money by the victim was over 100,000 US dollars from his Singapore account, a police officer said."

and he did this by internet banking!?,

and no money laundering flags were raised!?,

and the recipient is pulling this sort of cash out of an ATM!?

DAILY ATM TRANSACTION LIMIT AT KASIKORN IS 40000 BAHT

I have transferred sums in the amount stated from Singapore to Thailand when the wife bought the house for example. The Singapore bank phoned me and asked questions before they would send the money. If they took the money out over the counter it would raise eyebrows in any Thai bank I am sure. When the wife bought the house we got a cashiers cheque, so I dont believe it was foreigners who did this. I would never say they couldnt or wouldnt but the way this report is presented it does not look typical of a foreign crime

Depends on your banking relationship.. My primary bankers transfer amounts into the million plus without confirm when receiving fax instruction with my signature and code words. Online banking is a few 100k USD.

As for cash withdrawals.. For a land purchase I was able to get 5 mil, without any prior appointment, over the counter in a fairly small shopping mall branch. Just passbox and Thai DL and out it came. No private room available for counting either so way too public for my taste.

This is LOS expect the unexpected, everything is possible.

[German Viking]

Surely the only reason that he was murdered was because he recognised his

kidnapper/s? Although Thais may have been accomplices (maybe to commit

the actual murder, remove the corpse, dismember it and dispose of it), this

story smacks of him knowing the person who was extorting the funds.

The amount of cash involved hardly seems to merit a murder, otherwise.

In LOS you can getting killed for less.

[German Viking]

Only in Thailand can the police solve the case before even knowing what really happened .... maybe that's why it's called "Amazing Thailand"

They use Clairvoyants that`s just that simple!!???

[German Viking]

I read somewhere the banks stopped transferring funds from Singapore to Thailand due to suspicions, this could have enraged the gang who then decided killing him and dissecting him was their best 'option'- to silence him and prevent identification of the body.

better ways to get rid of bodies (eg. feeding to the pigs)... a bit amateuristic to cut up and then just throw in river.

Pssst don`t teach the bandits new/old methods!

[allanos]

Surely the only reason that he was murdered was because he recognised his

kidnapper/s? Although Thais may have been accomplices (maybe to commit

the actual murder, remove the corpse, dismember it and dispose of it), this

story smacks of him knowing the person who was extorting the funds.

The amount of cash involved hardly seems to merit a murder, otherwise.

In LOS you can getting killed for less.

Agreed. But there would still be an underlying motive behind such a killing.

With due respect to you, I don't think you quite understand my question.

What was the motive behind his murder? This has nothing to do with how

much was paid for his murder. My belief is that the reason he was murdered

is that he knew the extortionist and would be able to incriminate him.

[German Viking]

Surely the only reason that he was murdered was because he recognised his

kidnapper/s? Although Thais may have been accomplices (maybe to commit

the actual murder, remove the corpse, dismember it and dispose of it), this

story smacks of him knowing the person who was extorting the funds.

The amount of cash involved hardly seems to merit a murder, otherwise.

In LOS you can getting killed for less.

Agreed. But there would still be an underlying motive behind such a killing.

With due respect to you, I don't think you quite understand my question.

What was the motive behind his murder? This has nothing to do with how

much was paid for his murder. My belief is that the reason he was murdered

is that he knew the extortionist and would be able to incriminate him.

With all my respect to you, I guess you don`t know thai mentality, a wrong word in the wrong time could be good enough that you getting killed. I would calling this motive "Hot temper" or just "Intercultural misunderstanding" your choice.

[allanos]

Surely the only reason that he was murdered was because he recognised his

kidnapper/s? Although Thais may have been accomplices (maybe to commit

the actual murder, remove the corpse, dismember it and dispose of it), this

story smacks of him knowing the person who was extorting the funds.

The amount of cash involved hardly seems to merit a murder, otherwise.

In LOS you can getting killed for less.

Agreed. But there would still be an underlying motive behind such a killing.

With due respect to you, I don't think you quite understand my question.

What was the motive behind his murder? This has nothing to do with how

much was paid for his murder. My belief is that the reason he was murdered

is that he knew the extortionist and would be able to incriminate him.

With all my respect to you, I guess you don`t know thai mentality, a wrong word in the wrong time could be good enough that you getting killed. I would calling this motive "Hot temper" or just "Intercultural misunderstanding" your choice.

So you believe that the unfortunate deceased, in this case, and despite the evidence to the

contrary, was a victim of an "intercultural misunderstanding"? You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. I have cause to differ.

[German Viking]

Agreed. But there would still be an underlying motive behind such a killing.

With due respect to you, I don't think you quite understand my question.

What was the motive behind his murder? This has nothing to do with how

much was paid for his murder. My belief is that the reason he was murdered

is that he knew the extortionist and would be able to incriminate him.

With all my respect to you, I guess you don`t know thai mentality, a wrong word in the wrong time could be good enough that you getting killed. I would calling this motive "Hot temper" or just "Intercultural misunderstanding" your choice.

So you believe that the unfortunate deceased, in this case, and despite the evidence to the

contrary, was a victim of an "intercultural misunderstanding"? You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. I have cause to differ.

Sure not, this was a general comment. As somebody posted here, in the spanish newspaper was written that the family received e-mail or sms in Catalan language, but in unusual words which the victim never used. There must be a spanish/catalan speaking person who know the victim, but for sure he was not a rocket scientist, caused he let wire the money to thailand. It`s as usual in cases like this, that the murder was knowing the victim pretty good, probably the main reason that he got killed.

[rudy h]

It must be a foreign gang because it was well thought out.

so true

[gk10002000]

Cameras from the ATMs should prove extremely vital.

Linked to an account in Singapore, foreign gangs? Chinese triads? This guy was Spanish and I doubt any western European gangs have a serious foothold here, Russian? Burmese?

Why are they so sure about this?

Another article said he arrived from Iran. Just kind of an odd travel route. Could be routine and legit, business for example. Just seems odd

[bannork]

@Post #88

Alright, challenge accepted.

Let’s review your posts shall we?

#73

“there is nothing in the transcript on either The Daily News or Thai Rath to confirm that, he said 'because the crimes was so audacious or brazen.”

(In that bold font you abhor so much)

That is absolutely correct.

There is not a transcript anywhere, that characterized the crimes as “so audacious or brazen”

That’s just something you made up.

And certainly nothing I quoted.

#77

“I read somewhere…”

“this could have enraged the gang...”

Just made-up speculation substantiated by nothing.

I post published, source based, quotes and links.

Not pointless armchair conjecture.

#84

“to convey the impression Police General Panya believed Thais were involved in the Koh Tao murders.”

Well, of course he did.

And in rapid fashion.

(This is the part where you should “Get with it”)

#88

“Why refer to Panya in the Koh Tao thread?”

Really?

Another “get with it” moment…

P.S. And get the quote right:

“We tend to believe there were Thai nationals involved since the murder was so outrageous.”

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1454582453&typecate=06&section=

I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse but i'll spell it out once again.

I could find nowhere in the Thai scripts for the news conference with Police General Panya any reference to him remarking' he believed Thais must be involved because the crime was so outrageous' I mentioned there was nothing like this in the scripts so I surmised that it is almost certainly a mistranslation. I bet he said the word ookard in Thai ( not allowed to use Thai script here) which translates as daring, audacious, brazen or outrageous. it is often used in cases like bank robberies in broad daylight near a police station, implying no fear of the law,there doesn't have to be a moral element involved.Now don't forget translators in the electronic media have to work to very tight deadlines so I'm certain the translator simply chose outrageous over audacious or brazen.

Now you took what I think is a mis-translation and immediately posted it in bold black font on the Koh Tao thread to imply Panya was saying the crime was so bad morally Thais must be involved ( in the Koh Tao murders too as he was once in charge). That has now been removed by the mods but I'm sure you were the willing victim of a mis-translation.

Once again -do you really think a senior Thai policeman is going to say, 'the crime was so outrageous( with the moral connotation that implies) that Thais must be involved' rather than ' the crime was so audacious that Thais must be involved' especially as he remarks the logistics meant it was likely Thais are involved.

[katana]

"...might be assisted by some locals." ??

Boy, they have sanitized that theory right quick.

From an earlier story and direct quote by Chief Investigator Police.Gen. Panya Maman:

“We tend to believe there were Thai nationals involved since the murder was so outrageous.”

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1454582453&typecate=06&section=

Well I've read that article in Thai on The Daily News website and the Thai Rath website and from what I read Panya said he suspected the mastermind(s) are Spanish but Thais may have assisted in driving vehicles, taking out money from ATMs etc, nothing about saying Thais must be involved because it's so outrageous. He mentions it's a brutal murder which must have involved somewhere between 2 to 10 people.

If someone can send me a link in Thai where he says that I'd be grateful.

Here. Paragraph 5, he uses the word UK-AHT (daring, audacious outrageous etc). It's likely 'daring' or 'brazen' (as you suggest) would be the better English translation, implying that he believes a crime involving a combination of kidnap, murder, theft, cutting up and disposing of body parts all rolled into one is not usually one committed by farang in Thailand.

Edited February 6, 2016 by katana

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Thai Police Hunt for Artur Segarra, Prime Suspect in David Bernat Murder

BANGKOK – Pol Gen Panya Mamen lead investigator of the Chao Phraya River murder case, identified and released photos of a Spanish man considered the prime suspect in the grisly killing and dismemberment of Spaniard David Bernat.

Pol Gen Panya Mamen said investigators have distributed images of Artur Segarra, 37, and said they are trying to track down the alleged killer of David Bernat. They are confident he hasn’t left the country.

According to the Bangkok Post, Pol Gen Panya Mamen, said at a news briefing today that Mr Segarra is believed to still be in Thailand due to records of cash withdrawals made from ATMs in Wang Noi district in Ayutthaya, and another in the Suwinthawong area in Bangkok late Thursday afternoon.

Full story: http://www.chiangraitimes.com/thai-police-hunt-for-artur-segarra-prime-suspect-in-david-bernat-murder.html

-- Chiang Rai Times 2016-02-06

[clockman]

They do not have time, to look for muders.When they are arresting. Old age pensioners!

[kiwikeith]

"The latest transaction of money by the victim was over 100,000 US dollars from his Singapore account, a police officer said."

and he did this by internet banking!?,

and no money laundering flags were raised!?,

and the recipient is pulling this sort of cash out of an ATM!?

DAILY ATM TRANSACTION LIMIT AT KASIKORN IS 40000 BAHT

I could do that on line in two squirts without so much as a ripple of interest from banking people

& my SCB ATM cards have a daily limit of 200,000 Baht each, would still take a bit of effort to milk out $100K worth

The BK post reports that the police have found transfers of 37 million BHT, they are also interested in 12 Thai accomplaces that helped to open Bank accounts for the suspect.

The suspect is now an overstayer, his pics are also in the post. He don't look like a nice guy.

The question is ,if the victims money was ligitamitly aquired then this is an extortion murder but also asks questions as to the company he kept.

If the money is not legit then drugs or something else may be involved.

I think that more will come out in the next few days.

The police are hunting a so called gang, which points to something sinister but then the guy might be legit and to many bad guys knew of his wealth, might even have been having an affair with the perp?? who knows.

[ezzra]

" due to records of cash withdrawals made from ATMs in Wang Noi district in Ayutthaya, and another in the Suwinthawong area in Bangkok late Thursday afternoon."

I think the above is more of an incentive to catch this guy than any other reason.....

[catman20]

They do not have time, to look for muders.When they are arresting. Old age pensioners!

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[gandalf12]

"The latest transaction of money by the victim was over 100,000 US dollars from his Singapore account, a police officer said."

and he did this by internet banking!?,

and no money laundering flags were raised!?,

and the recipient is pulling this sort of cash out of an ATM!?

DAILY ATM TRANSACTION LIMIT AT KASIKORN IS 40000 BAHT

I have transferred sums in the amount stated from Singapore to Thailand when the wife bought the house for example. The Singapore bank phoned me and asked questions before they would send the money. If they took the money out over the counter it would raise eyebrows in any Thai bank I am sure. When the wife bought the house we got a cashiers cheque, so I dont believe it was foreigners who did this. I would never say they couldnt or wouldnt but the way this report is presented it does not look typical of a foreign crime

Depends on your banking relationship.. My primary bankers transfer amounts into the million plus without confirm when receiving fax instruction with my signature and code words. Online banking is a few 100k USD.

As for cash withdrawals.. For a land purchase I was able to get 5 mil, without any prior appointment, over the counter in a fairly small shopping mall branch. Just passbox and Thai DL and out it came. No private room available for counting either so way too public for my taste.

I think I would change my bank if I was you. When I transfer an unusual amount or send money to a bank I have not used before there is always a confirmation phone call to make sure it is I who requested he transfer. Without it someone could drain your account and you wouldnt know. That is scary

[technologybytes]

He don't look like a nice guy.

Strange thing to say.. I guess you are making that assumption based on him being a suspect in a murder case, because Its difficult to asses someones personality from a photo!

[kiwikeith]

He don't look like a nice guy.

Strange thing to say.. I guess you are making that assumption based on him being a suspect in a murder case, because Its difficult to asses someones personality from a photo!

True, but he don't look that crash hot to me, maybe a very nice guy, very nice he has been running around milking the victims money from ATM,s he's an overstyayer, 37 million BHT involved in transfers, up to 12 thais suspected of helping him set up thai bank accounts --- he's a wondefull man, then another twist he might have been the victims lover.

[wow64]

I don't see how they have planned this in every detail?

1) they didn't bother adding weight to the body parts ensuring that they would not resurface

2) it looks like he was kidnapped whilst entering his condo. No cctv footage?

3) no cctv footage at the banks or ATMs?

Poor guy obviously didn't know about keying in his PIN code in reverse to alert authorities

RIP

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/south-east/police-warn-dialling-triple-zero-the-only-option-in-wake-of-hoax-emails-claiming-reverse-pin-into-atm-pad-will-alert-them-to-robbery/news-story/8eb4f71dbd91b5c094b7225d65cf6394

Reverse pin is an internet hoax... Would be good if it was true.

Sent from my c64

Edited February 6, 2016 by wow64

[Bluespunk]

They do not have time, to look for muders.When they are arresting. Old age pensioners!

I think we are being unfair on the BIB over this bridge club thing. Let's face it the bridge clubbers are old and won't run away, they are old and unlikely to fight, they are old and probably easily intimidated, bridge players tend to be from a social strata with money and can therefore probably pay "fines" and they knew where they met on a regular basis.

Who would you rather arrest? The harmless bridge players or the rather more dangerous psychopaths behind this murder?

[ozyjon]

WOW Watch this space

(but not if you play cards, a game of 21 anyone)

[mikiea]

They do not have time, to look for muders.When they are arresting. Old age pensioners!

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

it is true catman , wake up .