Visit to UK with child.

[dessieandjohn]

My wife is in Bangkok and is going to the Trendy Building on tomorrow. Someone tell her I have filled out the wrong forms for children. I filled out my wife's form for UK visit then then did child's form after. It even asks if under 18. Surely I'm right and they are wrong. Any one know? Worried.

[Tony M]

It's one of many areas where I think that UKVI fall down in their guidance to visa applicants. As far as I can see, there has never been any clarification or guidance on which "form" should be used in the circumstances you describe. To me, that means there is no right form or wrong form, as long as one of the choices is either a "family" visit ( Standard Visit) or a "child" visit. You are right, there is no difference between the online application forms for a "family"/Standard visa and a "child" visa. That is, the questions are the same, and both forms have a section to complete if you are under 18 (the date of birth, when inputted, actually identifies the applicant as under 18 or not). The "under 18" section, in both forms, asks if the applicant is traveling alone, or with someone else.

For me, the "child" application form should be used when the child applicant is traveling alone. The Standard Visit/family application should, or can be, used when the child applicant is traveling with family. The UKVI guidance says :

If you're under 18

You can apply for a standard visitor visa if you’re under 18 and:

• you’ve made suitable arrangements for your travel and stay in the UK
• you have consent from your parent or guardian to travel to the UK
• you’re able to pay for your return or onward journey
• you have enough money to support yourself without working or getting help from public funds, or you have family and friends that can support you

Travelling alone

You can travel to the UK without an adult (someone over the age of 18).

Your parent or guardian will need to provide their:

• written consent for you to travel to the UK
• full contact details

They’ll also need to provide proof that you have somewhere suitable to live during your stay in the UK, including:

• the name and date of birth of the person that you will be staying with
• an address where you will be living
• details of your relationship to the person who’ll be looking after you
• consent in writing so they can look after you during your stay in the UK

Travelling with an adult

When travelling to the UK with an adult (someone over the age of 18), you’ll need to identify them in your visa application.

If the person you’re travelling with isn’t your parent, you’ll need to provide specific information about them in your application.

Their name will appear on your visa, and you’ll be refused entry to the UK if you arrive in the UK without them.

You can identify up to 2 adults in your visa application, and your visa will only be valid if you travel with at least one of them.

The adult can apply for a visa at the same time, but you must each complete separate applications.

I am aware that VFS ( at the application centre) often tell applicants that, if they have completed the "family" standard visit form, then they have completed the wrong form. They will offer to do a new form ( for a child applicant) while you wait, for, I think, about 500 THB. If you insist that the form be submitted as is, then they must accept it. I honestly don't see how the application could be refused on the grounds that the "wrong" form has been used when UKVI have not specifically identified which is the correct form to use, and the guidance is unhelpful.

[dessieandjohn]

Thanks for quick reply Tony. Like you say, it asks whether under 18 and then asks more questions. My wife in a panic now though and I've told her just to go and hand over the forms and not worry. I even went on visa website again and it takes me to the same forms again. We will see tomorrow.

[dessieandjohn]

It's one of many areas where I think that UKVI fall down in their guidance to visa applicants. As far as I can see, there has never been any clarification or guidance on which "form" should be used in the circumstances you describe. To me, that means there is no right form or wrong form, as long as one of the choices is either a "family" visit ( Standard Visit) or a "child" visit. You are right, there is no difference between the online application forms for a "family"/Standard visa and a "child" visa. That is, the questions are the same, and both forms have a section to complete if you are under 18 (the date of birth, when inputted, actually identifies the applicant as under 18 or not). The "under 18" section, in both forms, asks if the applicant is traveling alone, or with someone else.

For me, the "child" application form should be used when the child applicant is traveling alone. The Standard Visit/family application should, or can be, used when the child applicant is traveling with family. The UKVI guidance says :

If you're under 18

You can apply for a standard visitor visa if you’re under 18 and:

• you’ve made suitable arrangements for your travel and stay in the UK
• you have consent from your parent or guardian to travel to the UK
• you’re able to pay for your return or onward journey
• you have enough money to support yourself without working or getting help from public funds, or you have family and friends that can support you

Travelling alone

You can travel to the UK without an adult (someone over the age of 18).

Your parent or guardian will need to provide their:

• written consent for you to travel to the UK
• full contact details

They’ll also need to provide proof that you have somewhere suitable to live during your stay in the UK, including:

• the name and date of birth of the person that you will be staying with
• an address where you will be living
• details of your relationship to the person who’ll be looking after you
• consent in writing so they can look after you during your stay in the UK

Travelling with an adult

When travelling to the UK with an adult (someone over the age of 18), you’ll need to identify them in your visa application.

If the person you’re travelling with isn’t your parent, you’ll need to provide specific information about them in your application.

Their name will appear on your visa, and you’ll be refused entry to the UK if you arrive in the UK without them.

You can identify up to 2 adults in your visa application, and your visa will only be valid if you travel with at least one of them.

The adult can apply for a visa at the same time, but you must each complete separate applications.

I am aware that VFS ( at the application centre) often tell applicants that, if they have completed the "family" standard visit form, then they have completed the wrong form. They will offer to do a new form ( for a child applicant) while you wait, for, I think, about 500 THB. If you insist that the form be submitted as is, then they must accept it. I honestly don't see how the application could be refused on the grounds that the "wrong" form has been used when UKVI have not specifically identified which is the correct form to use, and the guidance is unhelpful.[/quote

Just seen this on website.

[dessieandjohn]

Basically the one visa now covers all the above. So I must be ok then.

[Tony M]

Basically the one visa now covers all the above. So I must be ok then.

That's the way I see it too. But VFS may try to convince your wife to fill out a new form for 500 THB.

[Bantex]

Last time I was in Trendy building I enquirer about visa forms for my wife and daughter and I was told it was the same forms for the child as the mother.

[dessieandjohn]

Last time I was in Trendy building I enquirer about visa forms for my wife and daughter and I was told it was the same forms for the child as the mother.

Thanks Bantex. I think you are correct.

[dessieandjohn]

Well that didn't go well. Wife told me that upstairs in trendy office, the child forms were wrong ones. They then sent her downstairs to visa agent who "helped" her do forms again. She says everything done now and visa application submitted. Won't tell me how much she paid yet.

[Tony M]

You should submit a complaint. You should ask VFS to send you their instructions from UKVI on the matter, as the UKVI guidance doesn't specify that the "child" form must be used, and that the standard visit for a family visit cannot. VFS cannot tell an applicant what form to submit. VFS can offer advice, but to send an applicant away to obtain new forms is beyond their remit. Did your wife insist on seeing the manager ?

If you require any help with a complaint, just let me know.

[dessieandjohn]

Hi Tony. Haven't got the full details yet as the connection was poor. I'll keep you informed as to what happened. My wife isn't very good when it comes to dealing with these people. She just accepts what they tell her to be the truth.

[7by7]

Are you sure it was VFS staff who told your wife this and sent her downstairs to the agent?

There have been reports before of people hanging around outside the UKVAC office claiming to be VFS staff and conning people in the way your wife was conned..

Of course, if she was definitely in the UKVAC then, as Tony says, she must make an official complaint.

Complaints procedure

[Tony M]

Hi Tony. Haven't got the full details yet as the connection was poor. I'll keep you informed as to what happened. My wife isn't very good when it comes to dealing with these people. She just accepts what they tell her to be the truth.

Just for information, I have details of an almost identical scenario. The applicants ( mother and daughter) applied a couple of weeks ago for visit visas, and the applications were made online using the family visit category. As with your wife, they were informed at VFS that the child's application was on the wrong form. Fortunately, the child's mother had been forewarned, and insisted that VFS accept the application as it was. They declined the "opportunity" to fill out a new form for the child applicant. I have copies of the two visas issued on 29th January.

I think your wife was badly advised by VFS, and was obliged (by VFS) to pay for a new application form to be completed when it wasn't necessary. You should have the name of the VFS counter agent on the receipt given to your wife, if you wish to make a complaint. Do you know which agency your wife was advised to go to for the new form to be filled out ? If so, can you let me know by PM, as one of the agencies in VFS used to run a similar scam when they, and VFS, were located in Regent House. It would be interesting, and useful, to know if they have started it up again.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Tony M

[dessieandjohn]

Printed off my copy and copy made by Visa company. In all 12 pages, the circled parts are the only difference.

[dessieandjohn]

And the cost of their service.

[dessieandjohn]

Amazed I got them to send me a pdf without billing me.

[dessieandjohn]

Sorry about photos.

[Tony M]

That is not the company that was operating a scam a couple of years ago. That said, the fee they have charged is fairly high ! Did VFS insist on new appointments being made, new application fee, etc ? Were the original appointments cancelled ? In theory ( even if new a new form was needed for the child), your wife's application didn't need redoing !

I am helping with a complaint on the application I told you about earlier. If you want me to include yours, I am happy to do so, and to request a refund of the fees you had to pay to the agency.

[dessieandjohn]

That is not the company that was operating a scam a couple of years ago. That said, the fee they have charged is fairly high ! Did VFS insist on new appointments being made, new application fee, etc ? Were the original appointments cancelled ? In theory ( even if new a new form was needed for the child), your wife's application didn't need redoing !

I am helping with a complaint on the application I told you about earlier. If you want me to include yours, I am happy to do so, and to request a refund of the fees you had to pay to the agency.

Hello Tony. My wife said that an officer checked her forms before she went in and was informed that they were wrong ones for children. She told her that they wont accept the forms and it would be best to use a visa agent downstairs. This happened on the day before her appointment so she still managed to get to it.

Thanks for the offer Tony but I might follow this up myself. Have to firstly claim my money back for the 2 visas that didn't get submitted, the wrong ones. Then I will wait to see if we get the visas first, then make the complaint.

[theoldgit]

My wife said that an officer checked her forms before she went in and was informed that they were wrong ones for children. She told her that they wont accept the forms and it would be best to use a visa agent downstairs. This happened on the day before her appointment so she still managed to get to it.

That seems to me to be one of the lurkers that prey on people entering the area, and may appear to be a bit lost, and not one of the VFS staff, though I could be wrong.

Not sure that I understand what you mean when you say she was stopped the day before her actual appointment

[billphillips]

Am I seeing 18k baht for filling in a couple of forms? That's a months pay for a bank employee at supervisor level. I think this is a scam on multiple levels. I'd be tempted to make formal complaints of corruption to the Thai and UK authorities now. If your visas are refused you would have excellent grounds for appeal with your pre recorded complaint.

It would be interesting to find out who sewed the seed of scam by suggesting to your wife that the original forms submitted were wrong.

[Tony M]

That seems to me to be one of the lurkers that prey on people entering the area, and may appear to be a bit lost, and not one of the VFS staff, though I could be wrong.

Not sure that I understand what you mean when you say she was stopped the day before her actual appointment

I thought that too, but the OP did say that this happened upstairs ( VFS office is upstairs, and no "lurkers" can operate there). The lurkers are all down in the entrance area on the ground floor. However, the OP might want to find out from his wife exactly where this happened, and who (if she knows) gave her the advice to complete new forms. Was the advice given upstairs or downstairs ?

[Tony M]

Am I seeing 18k baht for filling in a couple of forms? That's a months pay for a bank employee at supervisor level. I think this is a scam on multiple levels. I'd be tempted to make formal complaints of corruption to the Thai and UK authorities now. If your visas are refused you would have excellent grounds for appeal with your pre recorded complaint.

It would be interesting to find out who sewed the seed of scam by suggesting to your wife that the original forms submitted were wrong.

The cost includes two visa application fees. The OP has said that he is going to apply for refunds of the original fees. I'm not sure what the "letter" is, and how much of the fee relates to that.

[dessieandjohn]

My wife said that an officer checked her forms before she went in and was informed that they were wrong ones for children. She told her that they wont accept the forms and it would be best to use a visa agent downstairs. This happened on the day before her appointment so she still managed to get to it.

That seems to me to be one of the lurkers that prey on people entering the area, and may appear to be a bit lost, and not one of the VFS staff, though I could be wrong.

Not sure that I understand what you mean when you say she was stopped the day before her actual appointment

My wife wanted to ask a question about a translation, whether it was needed or not and the woman asked what she was applying for and looked at the printed visa forms. This is when she told her that the child visa was wrong and that it needed changing and told her to go and use a visa agent downstairs.

[7by7]

Was this definitely inside the VFS office?

Was the woman who told her this definitely a VFS staff member?

If so then the woman was acting way outside the remit of VFS, and possibly without their knowledge, and you must complain; if only to help stop the same happening to others.

VFS staff have no business sending people to or recommending or even suggesting an agent. I'm sure that doing so is in direct contravention of the terms of their contract with UKVI.

[Jip99]

If it was Vfs staff it could only have been at a) The ground floor reception (highly unlikely as they only check the appointment letter) or Reception on the 28th floor.

In the latter case I am only aware that they check the appointment again and take a cursory look at the application. That may, of course, been sufficient to identify that the wrong form had been used.

I am not sure what the best advice would have been at that time but I agree with Tony M that it is way beyond the remit of Vfs staff and undoubtedly a conflict of interest - especially if they are getting kick backs !!

[dessieandjohn]

Was this definitely inside the VFS office?

Was the woman who told her this definitely a VFS staff member?

If so then the woman was acting way outside the remit of VFS, and possibly without their knowledge, and you must complain; if only to help stop the same happening to others.

VFS staff have no business sending people to or recommending or even suggesting an agent. I'm sure that doing so is in direct contravention of the terms of their contract with UKVI.

Hi 7by7. My wife tells me it was past the reception part upstairs on whatever floor but before the doors to let you actually inside the office.

[dessieandjohn]

If it was Vfs staff it could only have been at a) The ground floor reception (highly unlikely as they only check the appointment letter) or Reception on the 28th floor.

In the latter case I am only aware that they check the appointment again and take a cursory look at the application. That may, of course, been sufficient to identify that the wrong form had been used.

I am not sure what the best advice would have been at that time but I agree with Tony M that it is way beyond the remit of Vfs staff and undoubtedly a conflict of interest - especially if they are getting kick backs !!

Hi jip99. Definitely not on ground floor. We have been here before and my wife knows not to speak to anyone downstairs. The only think was, she had to get a translation done. I think this is where it all started.

My wife now tells me that they looked over her forms and told her they were the wrong ones for child visit. She then went upstairs to ask a VFS member . She confirm they were wrong and told her to go to visa agent downstairs for them to sort out for her.

[Tony M]

If your wife got the same information from an agency and from VFS, then she would no doubt believe what she was told. I still don't think that the information was correct. I have submitted a complaint on behalf of the applicants I know, and I have asked UKVI to give me the proper guidance in this matter. When I receive a response, I will post it here.

[dessieandjohn]

If your wife got the same information from an agency and from VFS, then she would no doubt believe what she was told. I still don't think that the information was correct. I have submitted a complaint on behalf of the applicants I know, and I have asked UKVI to give me the proper guidance in this matter. When I receive a response, I will post it here.

Thanks Tony that would be most helpful. Been told by email today that a decision on visa, all 3, has been made. Very quick. I fear we will fail this time.