Thailand BANNED: Harvard blocks Thai users from its Facebook page over dentist drama

[Tywais]

It would certainly be nice if the article had explained some relevant details such as the fact (?) that she reneged on the terms of her scholarship by not returning to work in Thailand for ten years. Also, why these four guarantors would agree to be responsible for her debt if they didn't even know her. That seems extremely foolish.

The original articles on her defaulting is here with more details - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/891813-mahidol-university-ex-dentistry-lecturer-must-repay-scholarship-loan/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/890906-thai-born-harvard-dentist-accused-of-welching-on-multi-million-baht-scholarship-debt-to-mahidol/

And another topic here - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/892195-thai-dentist-faces-bankruptcy-lawsuit-filed-by-the-oag/

And another - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/892608-thai-bankruptcy-court-sets-march-14-for-first-hearing-of-scholarship-cheat-case/

[PaullyW]

"Ahhh... The prestigious institution would not take any action on their graduates as long as fees have been paid, even if the person is Jack the Ripper!"

Seems that would fall into police jurisdiction, wouldn't it? Would Thais be happy if Harvard did a black bag kidnap and "rendite" her to Thailand. They did have some black sites here during that whole Bush driven debacle. Harvard is there to educate, not be bill collector.

There's also image, reputation, credibility, etc.

Some schools would possibly be concerned that her actions damage the reputation etc., of the school. Harvard does, in the eyes of some, have a '5 star' ranking therefore '5 star' reputation.

IMHO the school should make some effort to indicate that it is not actively involved in this actual case but find some careful words to actively distance itself from the lady.

Also, maybe Some students might be uncomfortable / might refuse to be taught by a person with her reputation. Again in the best interests of Harvard to carefully do some damage control.

This is NOT damaging to Harvard. One of the best schools in the world, it is in no danger from this small, insignificant in every way, underdeveloped backwater of a country we call Thailand.

Neither would anyone at Harvard's endowment or enrollment offices be worried about losing the 1 or 2 likely below average Thais per year they get.

And I strongly doubt many, if any, Thai's have donated to Harvard's endowment.

Edited February 10, 2016 by PaullyW

[atyclb]

The paper has reprorted it being a scholarship. Scholarships are gifts, you don;t repay them, and they don't involve guarantors, either the paper is using the wrong word or the Thai's making all the noise don't understand how a scholarship works. Could be the girl's getting bad press for no good reason.

scholarships are subject to whatever terms are agreed upon.

let me try to help you understand, if that is possible.

you ever heard the term "basketball scholarship" ???

what should the university do if the student/basketball player subsequently decides to not play basketball ?? should the university simply continue to provide tuition and/or living expenses??

in the case of basketball the student fulfills the terms/obligations concurrently while studying. in the case of the dentist in return for getting her harvard costs paid she agreed to return to thailand and fulfill teaching requirements where it was lacking. therefore the dentist does indeed get her harvard expenses paid for in addition to receiving a normal dentist-teacher salary in thailand for the duration of time she agreed.

do you still believe a scholarship in a no strings attached gift?

Classic Ray explained it well in post #26. And yes there are many 'no strings attached' scholarships.

the relevant point is not whether no strings attached scholarships exist or not, but the specific terms of the scholarship the dentist accepted.

furthermore i would venture to say just about any scholarship would as a condition require a certain minimum gpa be maintained. i may be wrong

[Dogmatix]

To be fair it is none of the university's business that she didn't honour her obligations in Thailand. Harvard was not a party to the agreement and it seems as if Mahidol University could have made much greater efforts to recover the money from her, rather than just relying on the guarantors and waiting till the last minute before the statute of limitations was about to run out. The whole system of forcing scholarship recipients to get unrelated third parties to guarantee their obligations is wrong. Most of the debt is penalty and interest anyway. I don't condone Dolrudee's behaviour but think the government should accept that scholars who study overseas might not want to come back and work in low paid jobs back home where they will only be promoted based on seniority, if they have better options. They should certainly not pursue guarantors for any more than the amount of the loan plus interest which is probably only a third of what they are trying to force the guarantors to pay. That would result in a profit for the government

[taony]

To be fair it is none of the university's business that she didn't honour her obligations in Thailand. Harvard was not a party to the agreement and it seems as if Mahidol University could have made much greater efforts to recover the money from her, rather than just relying on the guarantors and waiting till the last minute before the statute of limitations was about to run out. The whole system of forcing scholarship recipients to get unrelated third parties to guarantee their obligations is wrong. Most of the debt is penalty and interest anyway. I don't condone Dolrudee's behaviour but think the government should accept that scholars who study overseas might not want to come back and work in low paid jobs back home where they will only be promoted based on seniority, if they have better options. They should certainly not pursue guarantors for any more than the amount of the loan plus interest which is probably only a third of what they are trying to force the guarantors to pay. That would result in a profit for the government

Too much logic.

[SheungWan]

Many nice people graduate from Harvard in addition to the shysters, ratbags, crooks, cronies and corrupt. But lOok at any financial scandal and you'll see Harvard grads in the thick of it. Apart from dentistry what do they teach? Grad school in how to become rich at the expense of others? In this case the 2 were combined.

A short trip to the Harvard website would tell you what they teach but don't let that stop your simplistic observations.

[SheungWan]

"Ahhh... The prestigious institution would not take any action on their graduates as long as fees have been paid, even if the person is Jack the Ripper!"

Seems that would fall into police jurisdiction, wouldn't it? Would Thais be happy if Harvard did a black bag kidnap and "rendite" her to Thailand. They did have some black sites here during that whole Bush driven debacle. Harvard is there to educate, not be bill collector.

There's also image, reputation, credibility, etc.

Some schools would possibly be concerned that her actions damage the reputation etc., of the school. Harvard does, in the eyes of some, have a '5 star' ranking therefore '5 star' reputation.

IMHO the school should make some effort to indicate that it is not actively involved in this actual case but find some careful words to actively distance itself from the lady.

Also, maybe Some students might be uncomfortable / might refuse to be taught by a person with her reputation. Again in the best interests of Harvard to carefully do some damage control.

This is NOT damaging to Harvard. One of the best schools in the world, it is in no danger from this small, insignificant in every way, underdeveloped backwater of a country we call Thailand.

Neither would anyone at Harvard's endowment or enrollment offices be worried about losing the 1 or 2 likely below average Thais per year they get.

And I strongly doubt many, if any, Thai's have donated to Harvard's endowment.

A thoroughly uninformed and prejudiced contribution. Just a little research would reveal that Harvard has a Thai Studies programme Your 'doubts' just purely plucked out of thin air.

[jacko45k]

They do employ her....despite aparent character issues that they were aware.

I was not aware that a facebook user could put a geoblock on his site,s visitors.

Time for a VPN?

[Artisi]

What will Thailand do if all the US simply bans Thailand from most US interactions, FB, internet, business, banking, etc???

Why would they do that?

[kamahele]

Thais posted bad reviews and comments over the universitys refusal to take action against its Thai lecturer who skipped out on her THB30 million scholarship debt in Thailand and left four guarantors to pay it off.

Attack the American University and not the Thai.

The graduate paid for her course with them, just because she was a lying, conniving, scamming Thai, that's their fault how?

Ahhh... The prestigious institution would not take any action on their graduates as long as fees have been paid, even if the person is Jack the Ripper!

Why would an employer get involved in the personal financial problems of their employee? This matter is between the employee and those poor people that guaranteed her scholarship.

[Emster23]

Of course she should pay the money back. I am sure many of us here have found out that words "loan" and "gift" seem to have same meaning to quite a few.

Harvard perhaps could have uni here act as agent and 1. sue all those posters for defamation and 2. have them charged with computer crime act. That is how Thais would do it. When in Rome.....

[webfact]

And we're back! Harvard's Facebook page accessible
By Coconuts Bangkok



BANGKOK: -- Harvard University's Facebook page is accessible to Thai users again, a day after the university appeared to have blocked users across the country.

The Facebook page was down yesterday in Thailand after thousands of Thais posted critical comments and 1 star ratings on the page, protesting against the university's silence over Thai-born lecturer Dr Dolrudee Jumlongras who skipped out on THB30 million scholarship in Thailand, leaving four guarantors to pay it off on her behalf.

It was unclear if the US college or Facebook had taken steps to block Thai users, or if it was a programming glitch, but either way Thai users were engraged by the action and continued posting on the page through technical workarounds like proxy sites and VPNs.

Full story: http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2016/02/11/and-were-back-harvards-facebook-page-accessible-again-thailand


-- Coconuts Bangkok 2016-02-11

[Ceruhe]

It was unclear if the US college or Facebook had taken steps to block Thai users, or if it was a programming glitch

Programming glitch. The lolz.

[Usernames]

Well, Bernie Sanders has promised to pay off student loans if elected. Now that this woman is either a resident or citizen of the US, maybe he'll pay hers off too.

[Usernames]

BTW, if you go to the Harvard FB page and read the reviews from Thailand, you will see that they are making absolute fools of themselves posting poorly written cut and paste entries. Does anybody REALLY want to compare the hiring policies of Harvard with those of Mahidol University???

Edited February 11, 2016 by Usernames

[bim]

BTW, if you go to the Harvard FB page and read the reviews from Thailand, you will see that they are making absolute fools of themselves posting poorly written cut and paste entries. Does anybody REALLY want to compare the hiring policies of Harvard with those of Mahidol University???

I agree. And 28.000 plus 1 star comments? Now dont get me wrong. I love Thailand and the many people I live with here in the main but why is it the concern of this many people over one person. Are they all related to the person(s) who is owed the money? Well maybe in my village they would be. But the poor English aside I see many state the word Morals. I doubt many understand the copy and paste comments they put anyway but is the response due to the fact that Harvard is a non Thai institution and would the outcry be the same if it was? I dig deeper here into the Thailands nationalist view of themselves and there standing in the world. The one big flaw in the Thai view that I believe effects there standing in the world and one that is so inward looking. Because whilst there comments refer many times to morals I sit back everyday in puzzlement that my neighbours burn Charcoal, Rubber and even worse plastic in effect poisoning there fellow citizens and no one..... and I mean no one says anything. No complaint to the Police or local Amphoe. But when I feed a dog outside our local 7-11 I get a visit to the house by two memebers of staff asking me not to feed him because they dont want the dog there. The dog is there everyday anyway and have seen many kind hearted Thais give him food. My point is if I had been Thai would the response have been the same. Im not sure and dont know if anyone here has had similar exepriences. But without wanting to go off topic my point is would the Thai response have been the same if Harvard was a Thai institution? Just an observation. Edited February 11, 2016 by bim

[William C F Pierce]

It's OK America is the land of the free. {Except on Facebook & in Harvard University}. Seems like Harvard is willing to support corruption by not investigating the situation and answering the critics. That is what debate in free speech is about. When people go outside of Thailand they can still comment on FB!

Edited February 11, 2016 by metisdead
Oversize bold font reset to normal.

[Usernames]

BTW, if you go to the Harvard FB page and read the reviews from Thailand, you will see that they are making absolute fools of themselves posting poorly written cut and paste entries. Does anybody REALLY want to compare the hiring policies of Harvard with those of Mahidol University???

I agree. And 28.000 plus 1 star comments? Now dont get me wrong. I love Thailand and the many people I live with here in the main but why is it the concern of this many people over one person. Are they all related to the person(s) who is owed the money? Well maybe in my village they would be. But the poor English aside I see many state the word Morals. I doubt many understand the copy and paste comments they put anyway but is the response due to the fact that Harvard is a non Thai institution and would the outcry be the same if it was? I dig deeper here into the Thailands nationalist view of themselves and there standing in the world. The one big flaw in the Thai view that I believe effects there standing in the world and one that is so inward looking. Because whilst there comments refer many times to morals I sit back everyday in puzzlement that my neighbours burn Charcoal, Rubber and even worse plastic in effect poisoning there fellow citizens and no one..... and I mean no one says anything. No complaint to the Police or local Amphoe. But when I feed a dog outside our local 7-11 I get a visit to the house by two memebers of staff asking me not to feed him because they dont want the dog there. The dog is there everyday anyway and have seen many kind hearted Thais give him food. My point is if I had been Thai would the response have been the same. Im not sure and dont know if anyone here has had similar exepriences. But without wanting to go off topic my point is would the Thai response have been the same if Harvard was a Thai institution? Just an observation.

Believe me. They are making a BIG mistake here. Most American and European universities have no idea that Mahidol University even exists. I would guess that 98 percent wouldn't recognize the name at all. Maybe five percent would recognize Chulalongkhorn University. But by turning the Thai spotlight on Harvard, there will be a reflection back on Mahidol. Somebody at the Chronicle of Higher Education might get interested enough to see just how Mahidol hires its faculty, ask questions about building projects, academic administration, research, plagiarism, etc. And I wonder how eager Mahidol would be for that to happen. I don't know. Maybe very eager. Maybe they are just waiting to advertise the high caliber research and teaching faculty they have. Maybe. We might all find out. Soon.

[CantSpell]

The link doesn't work.

Who's she owe the money to, and what kind of scholarship requires a 30 mil Baht repayment?

10M B Scholarship.. 20 M B interest for late payment...

She proposed a repayment scheduled that was refused by Mahidol apparently...

[mike324]

Those who debated saying that she did not need to pay it back, and whether its a scholarship or not - she did admit to borrowing the money, and said she will pay back (according to one of the guarantors). So its not a simple no need to pay back type of scholarship. Singapore runs a similar program for students where government gives out scholarship loans, when they graduate they have to work for the goverment X number of years, if they break the contract they are require to pay it back. I have a handful of singporean friends who went down this path before.

[dotpoom]

Thank God it's back...will never know how I managed this long without it?

[taony]

BTW, if you go to the Harvard FB page and read the reviews from Thailand, you will see that they are making absolute fools of themselves posting poorly written cut and paste entries. Does anybody REALLY want to compare the hiring policies of Harvard with those of Mahidol University???

I agree. And 28.000 plus 1 star comments? Now dont get me wrong. I love Thailand and the many people I live with here in the main but why is it the concern of this many people over one person. Are they all related to the person(s) who is owed the money? Well maybe in my village they would be. But the poor English aside I see many state the word Morals. I doubt many understand the copy and paste comments they put anyway but is the response due to the fact that Harvard is a non Thai institution and would the outcry be the same if it was? I dig deeper here into the Thailands nationalist view of themselves and there standing in the world. The one big flaw in the Thai view that I believe effects there standing in the world and one that is so inward looking. Because whilst there comments refer many times to morals I sit back everyday in puzzlement that my neighbours burn Charcoal, Rubber and even worse plastic in effect poisoning there fellow citizens and no one..... and I mean no one says anything. No complaint to the Police or local Amphoe. But when I feed a dog outside our local 7-11 I get a visit to the house by two memebers of staff asking me not to feed him because they dont want the dog there. The dog is there everyday anyway and have seen many kind hearted Thais give him food. My point is if I had been Thai would the response have been the same. Im not sure and dont know if anyone here has had similar exepriences. But without wanting to go off topic my point is would the Thai response have been the same if Harvard was a Thai institution? Just an observation.

Believe me. They are making a BIG mistake here. Most American and European universities have no idea that Mahidol University even exists. I would guess that 98 percent wouldn't recognize the name at all. Maybe five percent would recognize Chulalongkhorn University. But by turning the Thai spotlight on Harvard, there will be a reflection back on Mahidol. Somebody at the Chronicle of Higher Education might get interested enough to see just how Mahidol hires its faculty, ask questions about building projects, academic administration, research, plagiarism, etc. And I wonder how eager Mahidol would be for that to happen. I don't know. Maybe very eager. Maybe they are just waiting to advertise the high caliber research and teaching faculty they have. Maybe. We might all find out. Soon.

If 0.005% of Americans recognized the name Chulalongkorn, it would be massive.

[rchapstick]

Was not HM the King born at a Harvard teaching hospital? Was not his father a student at Harvard Medical School?

Would not such criticism potentially constitute a violation of LM laws?

Just asking .....

[Artisi]

BTW, if you go to the Harvard FB page and read the reviews from Thailand, you will see that they are making absolute fools of themselves posting poorly written cut and paste entries. Does anybody REALLY want to compare the hiring policies of Harvard with those of Mahidol University???

I agree. And 28.000 plus 1 star comments? Now dont get me wrong. I love Thailand and the many people I live with here in the main but why is it the concern of this many people over one person. Are they all related to the person(s) who is owed the money? Well maybe in my village they would be. But the poor English aside I see many state the word Morals. I doubt many understand the copy and paste comments they put anyway but is the response due to the fact that Harvard is a non Thai institution and would the outcry be the same if it was? I dig deeper here into the Thailands nationalist view of themselves and there standing in the world. The one big flaw in the Thai view that I believe effects there standing in the world and one that is so inward looking. Because whilst there comments refer many times to morals I sit back everyday in puzzlement that my neighbours burn Charcoal, Rubber and even worse plastic in effect poisoning there fellow citizens and no one..... and I mean no one says anything. No complaint to the Police or local Amphoe. But when I feed a dog outside our local 7-11 I get a visit to the house by two memebers of staff asking me not to feed him because they dont want the dog there. The dog is there everyday anyway and have seen many kind hearted Thais give him food. My point is if I had been Thai would the response have been the same. Im not sure and dont know if anyone here has had similar exepriences. But without wanting to go off topic my point is would the Thai response have been the same if Harvard was a Thai institution? Just an observation.

Believe me. They are making a BIG mistake here. Most American and European universities have no idea that Mahidol University even exists. I would guess that 98 percent wouldn't recognize the name at all. Maybe five percent would recognize Chulalongkhorn University. But by turning the Thai spotlight on Harvard, there will be a reflection back on Mahidol. Somebody at the Chronicle of Higher Education might get interested enough to see just how Mahidol hires its faculty, ask questions about building projects, academic administration, research, plagiarism, etc. And I wonder how eager Mahidol would be for that to happen. I don't know. Maybe very eager. Maybe they are just waiting to advertise the high caliber research and teaching faculty they have. Maybe. We might all find out. Soon.

Can't see any US university even bothering to type the name of any Thai university into a search engine.... Let alone care....

[AZBill]

Haha Thais clearly have no understanding of US liberal elites who have no sense or concern for any form of fiscal responsibility.

[gk10002000]

I don't use facebook. But I think it is funny that people or institutions love to post their view on Facebook, but as soon as they see something negative from somebody they block comments or reviews or block entire countries!

[djlest]

i dont get it - this is a fellow Thai that decided not to pay back her 30m loan because didnt plan on going back home, however instead of attacking the THAI they attack harvard? <deleted> has harvard got to do with her decission to not pay back the loan in THailand>

[LannaGuy]

i dont get it - this is a fellow Thai that decided not to pay back her 30m loan because didnt plan on going back home, however instead of attacking the THAI they attack harvard? <deleted> has harvard got to do with her decission to not pay back the loan in THailand>

everything when they employ her as most Unis have ethics committees and Harvard's have gone to sleep

[bim]

i dont get it - this is a fellow Thai that decided not to pay back her 30m loan because didnt plan on going back home, however instead of attacking the THAI they attack harvard? <deleted> has harvard got to do with her decission to not pay back the loan in THailand>

everything when they employ her as most Unis have ethics committees and Harvard's have gone to sleep

Emmm Unis have ethics???? Intersting. Did anyone kick up a fuss when the Uni in Switzerland educated Kim Jung or the one in France who educated Pol Pot? Me thinks not.

[digibum]

Thailand likes to put the blame on someone else. This is between Mahidol University and this dentist. The loan/scholarship was done in Thailand. They need to revisit their process and stop putting blame to the third party. Harvard is an institution for education, not their debt collector. It's a different system in the US. Follow the house rules and file a case with the court.

Unfortunately, this is simply another example of Thais having a problem with other Thais and then projecting their feelings on a non-Thai in order to keep that red, white, and blue Thai blood pumping patriotic.

Isn't this almost a daily occurrence? The Thai government cracks down on dissent, the US ambassador makes a comment referencing such, pro-government protestors direct their anger at the US ambassador.

Or how many times do we have to be told that anybody who comments about anything going on in Thailand is wrong and should shut up and go home but if a Thai is wronged (in reality or just in their imagination) anywhere in the world, Thais flock to social media to voice their outrage.

Harvard really has nothing to do with this. Whether they did or did not know about her arrangements with Mahidol University is immaterial. Harvard doesn't care if you pay off your student loans. That's not their responsibility. Claim it immoral or whatever but financing your education and your academic performance are two entirely separate issues.

And so what if they hired her as a lecturer? Are we saying that if I default on my student loan to Bank of America that my employer should fire me? The dispute is between her and Mahidol. Harvard isn't even a party to the dispute.

Just to be clear, I think she pulled a fast one. I think she is 100% wrong. But her right or wrongness in this situation is, again, between her and Mahidol. Tens of thousands of Thais demanding that Harvard get involved in this and take action is simply wrongheaded.

First off, the contract between Mahidol was executed in Thailand by two Thai parties. Harvard would have to become, in essence, the judge and jury in this matter. Why is Harvard being called in to rule on a dispute that involves Thai contract law?

That also brings up another issue, her contract basically said that she would come back and teach at Mahidol in exchange for her tuition fees to Harvard. Obviously Mahidol was not unaware that she might renege on this deal and forced her to obtain guarantors for the contract who would be on the hook financially if she did not keep her side of the contract. In essence, they were like co-signers on a loan. They were relying on the fact that she had enough personal dignity to not burden those who trust her enough to vouch for her financially.

And that's what's happening. She defaulted and Mahidol is going after her guarantors and forcing them to pay.

Is she a dirtbag for letting that happen to people who trusted her? Yes. Were the guarantors naive for guaranteeing her loan? Definitely.

Mahidol made a bad business deal. Her guarantors also completely misjudged her integrity. So, how is that Harvard's problem now?

This happens every day around the world. Parents co-sign for their children who miss payments and ruin their parent's credit. Spouses co-sign for husbands and wives who run up bills and can't pay.

But you know what happens in every other case than this? You take the deadbeat to civil court and sue for damages or you accept that fact that you got duped. You don't try to rally tens of thousands of people to force the deadbeat's employer to take a side in this case.

I'm assuming that there are avenues of recourse for her co-signers in Thai law. Why don't they utilize their own legal system rather than bullying a university in the US to take sides in a dispute to which they are not even a party?

Unfortunately, when all is said and done, Harvard will probably quietly relieve her of her duties. In other words, this childish tactic will have served its purpose and it will embolden others to use the same tactics in the future.

Not that it's unfortunate that she'll eventually have to deal with her actions but it's unfortunate that in this day and age of social media, being right or wrong is irrelevant if you can just get enough trolls to take up your cause.