Teacher Licensing, Culture Testing, TCT

[Petch01]

Thanks Petch01. I have heard so little about this topic, I had almost forgotten it was a requirement. By the way did you hve to pay or did your employer pay? I have a feeling some people are going to raise a stink on this one.

Teachers from four different schools in our province went to the course:

School 1: The school paid the course, the lodging and a mini-van to BKK and back

School 2: The school paid half of the course only

School 3: Teachers had to pay all

School 4: Teachers had to pay all

Petch01

[Petch01]

Currently the TCB is actively trying to implement teacher licenses for all Thai teachers. In future it’s the intention of the TCB that all foreign teachers in normal private and government schools [15/1] will be required to have them as well, but for now it’s the individual school’s requirement. Foreign teachers in language schools [15/2] and free/merit [15/3] schools will be exempt.

You call it TCB, I like to call it TCT (Teachers' Council of Thailand).

Keep in mind that it's also required to do four TCT tests when the teacher doesn't possess a B.Ed or its equivalent. Information can be found here. http://foreprof.ksp.or.th/foreign-test.pdf

The first batch of 22 foreign teachers and approx. 400 Thai teachers nationwide, did the tests on 8 and 10 December 2007 (obvious, in English for the foreigners and in Thai for the Thai including an extra day on the 10th December).

Cheers,

Petch01

Edited December 14, 2007 by Petch01

[stevemiddie]

John from SEE TEFL interviewed the MoE in Chiang Mai a few months back and asked them directly about Teacher Licences which require Thai Culture Training. It appears nothing is finalised yet, but there are plans for the future. Don't hold your breath though that it will be implemented.

'Is it compulsory to have a teacher licence?

No.

Sorry. Wrong.

Its already finalised and being presented to schools now. Its being rolled out over a 2 year period. After that 2 years it will be a REQUIREMENT that you have the new license. ( compulsory )

I can even tell you how many tests there are now.....how many questions and how long you have to complete it.

That sounds pretty conclusive to me that its being implemented.

[Petch01]

I can even tell you how many tests there are now.....how many questions and how long you have to complete it.

Let me guess.

4 Sections, each section had 150 5-answers multiple choice questions, 150 minutes per section. 2 days.

Petch01

[otherstuff1957]

The TCT is pronounced Kru Sapa in Thai. While the plans have been 'finalized', they are still subject to change. . It has been announced in the Thai press that all foreign teachers will have to get licenses over the next three years (probably 2+ years now). The courses required are being offered by various Rajapats and vary in cost from 4000b to 12,000b. A MOE official told my wife that if people are dumb enough to pay 12,000 instead of finding a cheaper course, well... som nam na ! Those were pretty much his exact words!

The only possible advantage I see is that having a permanant (or at least long term) license might make the whole Work Permit/Visa issue a bit easier when changing jobs.

[PeaceBlondie]

The only possible advantage I see is that having a permanant (or at least long term) license might make the whole Work Permit/Visa issue a bit easier when changing jobs.

Good point, otherstuff. Eventually, having such a long term 'license' (not to be confused with a Teacher's License which some farang TEFLers have for non-govt. jobs), might make it easier when changing jobs. Still, the work permit expires and an extended visa usually expires.

I've been a doubter, but years later now, I'm beginning to think the authorities were maybe 20% serious about this. Maybe in five more years, 72% of legal farang TEFLers with work permits will have this teaching license, also.

[Petch01]

In October 2006, a letter went around that foreign teachers working in formal education should meet requirements set by the Teachers' Council of Thailand. This Council was founded by Thai Law in 2003 and is responsible for the future licensing of teachers. Somewhere in July 2007, teachers at some schools were asked by TCT to do the so called Thai Culture, Language and Etnics course as the first part of the requirements set by TCT. In December 2007, teachers could do the 4 test of TCT (22 teachers did), being the second and final part of getting a TCT Teacher License.

We all know that the process of getting all foreign teachers, in formal education TCT-licensed, can take many years. There are so many hurdles to jump over. Such as, organisational between MoE and TCT, physical; how much time does it take before a teacher is licensed, teachers availability and so on. Everybody knows.

But still, a start has been made in last half year.

What do you think or predict? When will your school (in formal education) receive a letter from the Teacher's Council of Thailand that you have to do the Thai Culture, Language and Etnics course and the 4 tests to get a TCT teacher license?

With this poll I just want to find out how serious or skeptical our members are about this issue.

Petch01

Edited December 15, 2007 by Petch01

[stevemiddie]

WE have been informed that we are doing this in March 2008.

There is apparently a 3 year timetable to all of this which commenced running in October 2006 and so I believe they are keen to stick to this timetable. They do seem serious about it.

I am quite happy about it. A teachers license that belongs to US for life. No more seperate applications to the MoE every time I may change schools ( apparently )

Edited December 15, 2007 by stevemiddie

[Loaded]

John from SEE TEFL interviewed the MoE in Chiang Mai a few months back and asked them directly about Teacher Licences which require Thai Culture Training. It appears nothing is finalised yet, but there are plans for the future. Don't hold your breath though that it will be implemented.

'Is it compulsory to have a teacher licence?

No.

Sorry. Wrong.

Its already finalised and being presented to schools now. Its being rolled out over a 2 year period. After that 2 years it will be a REQUIREMENT that you have the new license. ( compulsory )

I can even tell you how many tests there are now.....how many questions and how long you have to complete it.

That sounds pretty conclusive to me that its being implemented.

i've heard of one teacher in CM being told that they must complete this year or next year and or if it rains the year after. maybe you could post a link if it's finalised? you may be correct at this particular moment, but I would be more convinced if i saw confirmation from an official source. your anecdotal evidence doesn't convince me and doesn't sound pretty (or ugly) conclusive to me.

[Loaded]

I voted never.

I remember child-centred education being 'introduced' as compulsory methodology - not happening in CM

I remember the you-must-have-a-police-check being introduced by the MoE, or was it Immigration - not happening in CM

I remember the colour pink being introduced as a learning material - happened

Every few months the Minister of Education vacates his seat so that another politician can move in and arrange their scams

[stevemiddie]

I remember the you-must-have-a-police-check being introduced by the MoE, or was it Immigration - not happening in CM

REQUIRED in Pattaya/Jomtien now..........along with Tax card ( this is for extension of stay )

[stevemiddie]

I can even tell you how many tests there are now.....how many questions and how long you have to complete it.

Let me guess.

4 Sections, each section had 150 5-answers multiple choice questions, 150 minutes per section. 2 days.

Petch01

Correct

( I am studying the Thai Education Act now as I type )

[stevemiddie]

John from SEE TEFL interviewed the MoE in Chiang Mai a few months back and asked them directly about Teacher Licences which require Thai Culture Training. It appears nothing is finalised yet, but there are plans for the future. Don't hold your breath though that it will be implemented.

'Is it compulsory to have a teacher licence?

No.

Sorry. Wrong.

Its already finalised and being presented to schools now. Its being rolled out over a 2 year period. After that 2 years it will be a REQUIREMENT that you have the new license. ( compulsory )

I can even tell you how many tests there are now.....how many questions and how long you have to complete it.

That sounds pretty conclusive to me that its being implemented.

i've heard of one teacher in CM being told that they must complete this year or next year and or if it rains the year after. maybe you could post a link if it's finalised? you may be correct at this particular moment, but I would be more convinced if i saw confirmation from an official source. your anecdotal evidence doesn't convince me and doesn't sound pretty (or ugly) conclusive to me.

Well.............its happening now in Bangkok and Pattaya/Chonburi.

Some foreign teachers ( as reported on that OTHER forum ) have already sat the course. What other evidence do you require?

I just can,t see how when some areas in Thailand are now implementing this that somehow CM will not bother?

Just a question of time I think.

Edited December 15, 2007 by stevemiddie

[Petch01]

( I am studying the Thai Education Act now as I type )

You have to study at two acts:

- National Education Act of B.E. 2542 (1999)

- Teachers and Educational Personnel Council Act B.E. 2546 (2003)

Good luck, I probably failed the questions from the TCT test about these topics. I didn't study them.

By the way, I found a nice website which could be very helpful for self-study:

http://www.teachasiaonline.com/pmwiki/inde...heoryOfTeaching

Petch01

[Loaded]

Some foreign teachers ( as reported on that OTHER forum ) have already sat the course. What other evidence do you require?

Again - not anecdotal evidence. Some teachers sitting doesn't make it policy. But it may be or become. A link to an official source would be good. There are links to the proposal so why not the finalised policy?

[Loaded]

If you have a work permit, you pay tax and your employer should supply you with a tax card. This isn't part of the teacher licence process as it's issued by the Ministry of Labour. But as you correctly say to extend the visa/renew wp tax affairs have to be in order.

Some consulates and embassies require a police check before issuing a non-imm B for teaching but not all - no consistency. Provincial MoEs run their own shows and some (Chonburi) seem to be insisting. probably others as well.

Edited December 15, 2007 by Loaded

[stevemiddie]

Some consulates and embassies require a police check before issuing a non-imm B for teaching but not all - no consistency. Provincial MoEs run their own shows and some (Chonburi) seem to be insisting. probably others as well.

Probably because Chonburi ( read.....Pattaya ) is full of " bad " farangs.

[stevemiddie]

( I am studying the Thai Education Act now as I type )

You have to study at two acts:

- National Education Act of B.E. 2542 (1999)

- Teachers and Educational Personnel Council Act B.E. 2546 (2003)

Good luck, I probably failed the questions from the TCT test about these topics. I didn't study them.

By the way, I found a nice website which could be very helpful for self-study:

http://www.teachasiaonline.com/pmwiki/inde...heoryOfTeaching

Petch01

THANKS !

[mopenyang]

The TCT is pronounced Kru Sapa in Thai. While the plans have been 'finalized', they are still subject to change. . It has been announced in the Thai press that all foreign teachers will have to get licenses over the next three years (probably 2+ years now). The courses required are being offered by various Rajapats and vary in cost from 4000b to 12,000b. A MOE official told my wife that if people are dumb enough to pay 12,000 instead of finding a cheaper course, well... som nam na ! Those were pretty much his exact words!

The only possible advantage I see is that having a permanant (or at least long term) license might make the whole Work Permit/Visa issue a bit easier when changing jobs.

As was reported elsewhere, the "licenses" will not not be required for all teachers in Thailand as there are specific exclusions and the one concerning lecturers at universities is particularly significant for many teaching at the higher education level:

"Section 43 The Profession of Teachers, Educational Institution Administrators and Education Administrators shall be a licensed Profession under this Act. Other licensed Professions shall be as stipulated in ministerial regulations.

No one shall practice a licensed Profession without a License under this Act, except in any of the following cases:

(1) Those occasionally providing knowledge to learners in any Educational Institution as guest educational lecturers;

(2) Those whose primary Profession does not relate to the teaching and learning process, but has the occasional duty to teach;

(3) Students, trainees or those with a practical training license apprenticing or training under the supervision of Professional Educators, subject to the criteria, procedures and conditions set forth by the Teachers Council of Thailand Board;

(4) Those arbitrarily offering educational courses;

(5) Those teaching in any learning center under the law governing national education or learning establishments arbitrarily operated by nonformal educational agencies, individuals, families, communities, community organizations, local administrative organizations, private organizations, Professional organizations, religious institutions, business establishments, hospitals, medical institutions, charitable shelters and other social institutions;

(6) Public and private instructors, Educational Institution Administrators and Education Administrators at the higher education level;

(7) Education Administrators of a level higher than educational districts;

(8) Other persons as designated by the Teachers Council of Thailand Board."

[Ijustwannateach]

Oh, it's that time of year again, is it? When they wave around a test which has been required for over 3 years now, yet doesn't even seem to exist, and get us to sign up for courses which never seem to be quite on the level or definitely approved by any spokesperson from the government who's willing to admit it, anyway...

The problem with this little graft plan is that they implemented it at the same time they took other measures which really discouraged most of the foreign teachers who would actually need such a course, by the new standards... many of them have left and there aren't a lot of replacements around. I can't see enough candidates going through with it to make full development BY THE GOVERNMENT a financially viable concern, and so they'll probably either let the requirement fizzle or, more entertainingly, raise the test/course cost to such unholy levels that no one even considers being legal anymore.

From what I can tell, those who were more or less "in" by last year are ok if they're not changing jobs right now, especially if they already had a teacher's license before whatever date was listed last year (about 3 years ago). And if you're really planning to stick around long enough to change jobs again, I'd recommend getting a real masters or some other actual certification which will qualify you above and beyond this scam.

Once again, I'd like to call on the government to crack down on ILLEGAL teachers and the SCHOOLS who hire them- the type of teachers who have been in almost EVERY scandal or story of arrest over the last year or two- those WITHOUT paperwork- rather than making the lives of the few regulated teachers more difficult for no serious reason (everybody ready to learn the names of parts of Thai musical instruments, now?)

Good luck, everyone.

"S"

[Scott]

Thanks. I was a little unsure, but now I am completely confused--which is where I feel most comfortable in Thailand!!

All joking aside, the information and experiences are valuable, since they will no doubt vary from place to place. I hope people keep posting them.

With regards to the Teacher's License, I know that people who had a TL prior to 2003 are grandfathered in and do not need to take the course or test.

[Scott]

This is a potential method of getting money--they will do it. If schools are forced to pay, then they won't do it.

[PeaceBlondie]

Does anybody remember the 15 credit hours of education courses, or the 15 xlio aoiols of Etruscan candlemaking lessons, that were going to be required to get a teacher's license, or to extend your visa, or to buy somtam at a discount? I offered 1000 baht for proof of such a requirement, and haven't even had a challenger yet. I voted never, because the poll has no option "When the 15 credit simoleonaolsdeiopr's in higher education will be required."

[mezcal]

Here you can see for yourself what the new teacher licences is all about.

I understand that nobody wants to hear doom and gloom stories but to just stick your head in the sand doesn't make the thread go away and closing the previous tread doesn't solve anything either. Everybody can now judge for themselves if they want to take this seriously or not.

Since I didn't read any reassuring posts regarding this issue, I'm still worried.

good luck

[Petch01]

Mezcal,

Thank you very much for the scans. I just went with the two first letters to my assistant and she's translating them now.

It's not that posters on this board are sticking their heads in the sand. It's just that you can't simply believe everything that's being posted.

In a previous thread you wrote that you couldn't find any previous posts on this topic on this board. Well, there are a lot starting somewhere in October 2007. Just search around and use the keywords "TCT", Teachers'Council" or "Teacher License".

I belong to the first batch, October 2007, of 35 persons who did the Thai Language, Culture and Ethics Course. I also belong to the 22 foreigners and the 400-600 Thai teachers nationwide who did the first test round of The Teachers'Council of Thailand in December 2007.

I don't have a B.Ed. I have a M.Sc. I didn't do a Graduate Diploma in Teaching course. I simply applied for the tests, was approved and did it. The test result will come soon. When you read the document of TCT about the tests, I posted in your previous post, you'll see that there was no requirement of having the diploma your local Rajabhat is offering.

Petch01

My assistant just informed me about the content of the two Thai Letters.

- They are both from the Service Area of The MOE

- One letter is about that ALL teachers (B.Ed., B.A., etc) should attend the Thai Language, Culture and Ethics Course

- The other letter is about the teaching knowledge required by TCT. Teachers who lack this knowledge COULD do the Graduate Diploma in Teaching offered by that Rajabhat institute. When more than 15 teachers want to do it they can teaching in-school.

Petch01

Edited February 1, 2008 by Petch01

[mezcal]

Thanks for the reply Petch01.

I was looking for another post about this 75.000Bath teacher lottery but I will try again with your search words.

I'm well aware that we shouldn't believe everything they put under our nose and that laws can change from one day to another or one city to another. Nonetheless, I don't want to find myself in the situation were I'm left without any other choice other than packing, which would not only be trouble for me but would hurt my girlfriend too.

I will show this document to my employer and see what she says.

Sidenote: My friend asked a thai Dr. teaching at our local university and he said: just forget about it...

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks to both of you. Now we can leave this thread open, unless the more ambitious and ambidextrous moderator wishes to merge the two topics.

I try to stay out of this dogfiight, since I don;t have a dog in it.

[Petch01]

Nonetheless, I don't want to find myself in the situation were I'm left without any other choice other than packing, which would not only be trouble for me but would hurt my girlfriend too.

For what I see, you do have a choice;

- study yourself and do the tests (4,000 THB)

- do the Rajabhat Course (75,000 THB). I am not sure, doing the course will exempt you from the tests!

- take your wife to your home country (2 x 35,000 THB, airline) and live together an unhappy life with 1,200 - 1,500 Euro nett per month).

Petch01

[garro]

I am very confused by this new requirement and the documents scanned haven't really provided me with more clarity. I have looked at a thread about this on another Thai teacher forum and they seem equally as confused. I couldn't see any mention there though of a 75,000 baht course. There are people talking about a course costing 3,500 baht which can be completed over a few days with other courses and the maximum amount being 10,000.

I tried to read the Thai documents and my understanding from them (limited) was that they are looking for certificates (เอกสาร) for the Thai cultural course, I could be wrong of course.

Out of curiosity mezcal, were all of these documents presented to you as belonging to the same information pack?

[mezcal]

Out of curiosity mezcal, were all of these documents presented to you as belonging to the same information pack?

The documents were given to me by a thai teacher at my school and they were all stapled together. I can just assume they all belong together.