Teacher Licensing, Culture Testing, TCT

[PeaceBlondie]

The votes are pretty much all tallied, and exactly half the voters said it would be of some measurable benefit. I can't help adding that even that half was being theoretical, that if the licensing requirements were done in a reasonable manner, they would be beneficial. IMO, it will surely not be done in a reasonable manner.

If the teaching requirements were substantially raised for academic certification, and rigidly enforced, almost all leuk krung kids would learn English from Filipinos and from semi-illiterate Thai teachers.

[mbkudu]

That says something about Filipinos, doesn't it; that many of them have taken the time and effort it takes to get educated? I have no idea; just a shot in the dark. What does 'semi-illiterate' mean? Or is that another PeaceBlondian sarcasm?

Edited February 12, 2008 by mbkudu

[wangsuda]

I'll take a stap at this one and say he means that students would learn from non-native English speakers who work for peanuts.

[aussiestyle1983]

That says something about Filipinos, doesn't it; that many of them have taken the time and effort it takes to get educated? I have no idea; just a shot in the dark. What does 'semi-illiterate' mean? Or is that another PeaceBlondian sarcasm?

I have to laugh at that, out of the twenty filipinos I worked with not one of them had an education related dergee, in fact, most of them had nursing or IT degrees. So yes, allthough they may be educated, I'n sure being a teacher in LOS wasn't the reason to get their education. They are only there for the money, as bad as that sounds. You can't say they put any effort into being a educated specificcaly to be a teacher unless they have BEd's ; they got their degree, couldn't find work in their home country, and have now used their un-related degree to get a job they would have never thought of doing.

[mbkudu]

Why I said, 'shot in the dark.' At least many of them have degrees; not that it means much anyway. The main motivation for a Thai school owner to hire them is surely the prospect of cheap labor.

[garro]

That says something about Filipinos, doesn't it; that many of them have taken the time and effort it takes to get educated? I have no idea; just a shot in the dark. What does 'semi-illiterate' mean? Or is that another PeaceBlondian sarcasm?

I have to laugh at that, out of the twenty filipinos I worked with not one of them had an education related dergee, in fact, most of them had nursing or IT degrees. So yes, allthough they may be educated, I'n sure being a teacher in LOS wasn't the reason to get their education. They are only there for the money, as bad as that sounds. You can't say they put any effort into being a educated specificcaly to be a teacher unless they have BEd's ; they got their degree, couldn't find work in their home country, and have now used their un-related degree to get a job they would have never thought of doing.

Sorry Aussie but this sounds fishy to me, as any Fillipino with a Nursing degree can easily find well-paid work in many countries. A Fillipino with a Nursing degree is almost certain of getting a green card for America. Why would they choose to work in Thailand for peanuts?

[Xangsamhua]

Some of the Filipinos at our school have teaching degrees; some don't. Some of those that don't have related degrees, e.g. Music for the Music teachers; Nutrition for the Cooking teacher (they teach these subjects in English). Our Filipino teachers get a big increase on their base salary if they can get a 6.0 on IELTS. Nearly all get it. Why blame the Filipinos if they have to leave their homeland to make a living? Isn't that blaming the victim?

[aussiestyle1983]

I'm not blaming the victim, you're not listening. All I said was that most of them, in fact all of the ones at my old scholl, didn't get educated to be teachers. Teaching in Thailand was the only way they could send pesos home to mummy and daddy. I think they are all godd people, but nevertheless, I'm sure if they got the job the studdied at Uni for they would not be teaching in Thailand. And the 4 at my school with nursing degrees, two were husband and wife; and the wife had a MBA as well. Like you said, I'm sure they could have done better, but getting a green card requires more than a degree from a filipino university. I don't blame them for what they do, who wouldn't do the same thing in the same situation. But.................. the point I was trying to make was that they did not put in the effort that others give them credit for. Also, just because the pass rate is 75% in flip land, doesn't mean they're better than graduates from the USA or even worse, Australia where the pass rate is only 50%. Well they seem to think it does

[mbkudu]

I really don't see many differences in the motives between Fillipino and Western teachers working in Thailand. One difference is that Filipinos tend to send money home, but Westerners tend to keep (spend) the money in Thailand. Anyway, it's a moot point.

[aussiestyle1983]

I see a big difference in motive. Most of the filipinos are motivated to teach there for the money, certanily not the lifestyle of living two or three or even more in a room provided by the school. Most farangs are motivated to teach there for the mongering and other plesant things that life in Thailand brings, not the peanuts. Either way, my posts were not intended to bring up the motives; they were suggesting the filipinos put no effort into comming to thailand to teach. They allready had their paper and had no other choice. Like I said before, I don't blame them, but, I get the feeling that most of them would rather be elsewhere and doing something else.

It's people like us (try not to laugh) who return to school after being away from that system for years that are the ones putting in the effort to get a education; in my case, specifically to teach there. All of the farangs who have returned home to study or sweated in out at a BKK uni to get a degree in order to stay there and teach have put a lot more effort into their education and being able to teach in Thailand; a lot more than a filipino who stays there for a few years until enough money has been save to buy a new bungalo for their parents.

[PeaceBlondie]

I agree with the nurse about nurses. They (Filipino nurses) are all over the USA.

"semi-illiterate" means that most Thai teachers of English, especially in prathom schools and in the provinces, are nearly or actually (functionally) illiterate in standard, spoken English. I've seen them being trained at conferences, poor women with Thai 'educational degrees' from rajabats, who never learned English, assigned to teach it to primary children. It wouldn't really matter if your leuk krung kid has a native English speaking parent, but then there was Lek, who spoke Magyar and a bit of English. Actually, Lek was fairly good, and so was the 19 year old who....I'd better not finish that sentence.

[Loaded]

Actually, Lek was fairly good, and so was the 19 year old who....

....wore a short black skirt and tight white blouse uni uniform and rode side-saddle on the back of a honda dream causing many farang teachers to be distracted and drive into the back of songtaews....

[Thaiboxer]

Driving into the back of songthaews may result in smaller classes...not a bad thing I'd say!

[paulmw]

Just renewed my 90 days living in Thailand at the local Immigration office.

As I am a teacher they gave me a letter from the Thai teachers council to give to my school this will apply to every one renewing their 90 days living in Thailand.

As there is little English up here at Immerigration & school, What I gleened from my school.

It seems to be about all schools should have applied for the teachers licence for falang teachers If why not.

I have enclosed a scan of the letter from Immigration/ Thai teachers council to the school.

Edited February 13, 2008 by paulmw

[Petch01]

It seems to be about all schools should have applied for the teachers licence for falang teachers If why not.

I have enclosed a scan of the letter from Immigration/ Thai teachers council to the school.

Thank you very much for the scan.

The letter is from the TCT, sent on 7 November 2007 to Immigration.

It refers to the Teachers and Educational Personnel Act 2003 and the The Notification ....... document known on this forum as 570-8429.pdf.

Its says that all teachers MUST have a Teacher License from TCT.

It doesn't write about what Immigration should do in case the visa-applicant hasn't a teacher license.

Petch01

[paulmw]

Thanks Petch 01.

Only been waiting 2 years last application for T/L May last year.

As they is only 8 weeks left for the renewal on my contract should be interesting ha ha.

Thankfully Immigration know that the MoE here don't know what they are doing.

Edited February 13, 2008 by paulmw

[Loaded]

So to extend your non-imm B you need the culture course thing

you have to have 1 year's experience teaching in Thailand before you take this course

If you arrive in Thailand with a single-entry non-imm B, you need to extend if you want a wp. But you can't extend because you haven't done the culture course and you can't take the culture course until you've worked 1 year!

My opinion is if they proceed and are consistent, it has to fall aprt very quickly. The phds who run the MOE are clowns with no common sense.

[PeaceBlondie]

So to extend your non-imm B you need the culture course thing

you have to have 1 year's experience teaching in Thailand before you take this course

If you arrive in Thailand with a single-entry non-imm B, you need to extend if you want a wp. But you can't extend because you haven't done the culture course and you can't take the culture course until you've worked 1 year!

My opinion is if they proceed and are consistent, it has to fall apart very quickly.

A perfect example of Catch22.

As a retired bureaucrat, I cannot imagine one agency taking orders from another agency how to do its own business.

[mopenyang]

So to extend your non-imm B you need the culture course thing

you have to have 1 year's experience teaching in Thailand before you take this course

If you arrive in Thailand with a single-entry non-imm B, you need to extend if you want a wp. But you can't extend because you haven't done the culture course and you can't take the culture course until you've worked 1 year!

My opinion is if they proceed and are consistent, it has to fall apart very quickly.

A perfect example of Catch22.

As a retired bureaucrat, I cannot imagine one agency taking orders from another agency how to do its own business.

Doesn't have to be viewed as "taking orders."

Government agencies around the world cooperate with each other in order to effectively enforce and administer regulations and laws that touch on more than a single agency.

In fact, from my experience, it is the very rare agency that would operate only within its own little world.

[PeaceBlondie]

Okay, I'll agree. After all, I suppose the police only extend visas for teachers that have work permits. And, I suppose the labour offices only give work permits to teachers with proper visas. Those two agencies both work at one stop offices.

[makavelithedon]

Hi all,

Not a regular here but thought I would share what I have been told this morning with the rest of you maybe to get a clearer picture on this new policy and the recent shift real or imagined in this area.

Yesterday the head of English (Thai) had a regional meeting with Government officials and other government schools where this teacher license was on the agenda. She has told me that I will have to submit the documents to the school as normal for WP renewal + 2 extra photos but that all of this will be sent to Bangkok to be held on a database. I will then be issued with one of these new licenses (I already have the old one) for a 2 year period. After the 2 years I don't know what happens.

Only then with this document sent down I presume from there will a new WP/visa extention be issued at immigration/labour office for the next school year.

I have a very good relationship with the head of English and is always very open about everything. The school has a lot of regional weight and some students who attend are from MP's families etc. The reason given to her from the brass at the meeting was a tightening of checks due to criminality concerns in the recent past- the spate of highlighted cases going back to the American teacher who was arrested (sorry name eludes me) for the pedo episode in America. So it seems the reason given is due to these pedo episodes and a murder or two (according to what she was told) and that's the only reason.

Is it the real reason or an excuse as some have suggested to get rid of nearly all long term farang here? I don't know. But ever since that incident I have heard rumours of tightenings, tuts, groans and the like, and I had pretty much come to the conclusion some time ago this is why more hoops were being added to the circus activity of teaching. Will it work? Don't know. Just thought it may be of interest.

I have also been told in about 2 years there will have to be a meeting of all foreign teachers at some seminar in Bangkok for 'culture training' etc. Maybe for newbies, but for the rest of us it's as welcome as you are to Thailand these days. Like I need to know anything else about the culture I don't already!

For those of us who just want to keep our head down, try to do a good job with the facilities available and massive classes it has the usual negative psychological effect- We're all pedo's or murderers and I bet this database is real secure and they'll willingly delete any records when you quit. Yeh, right.

Mak.

Edited February 28, 2008 by makavelithedon

[aussiestyle1983]

Maybe the complete opposite will happen and in the future you will need a criminal record at least five pages long with at least ten child sex charges in order to get a teachers licnece.......

[PeaceBlondie]

Mak, your boss's second hand rumour is about as good as the next one. Those culture classes may be coming much sooner than two years. Nobody knows. Even the big-wigs at TCT (teachers council of thailand) probably don't know.

Thanks, and welcome here.

[alaina]

Another thanks makavelithedon, as I have asked anyone and everyone for some clarification and even passed along rumors with disclaimers. I'm off to Cambodia soon because there's nothing that can be done to renew my TL before my visa expires. School's almost out and when I return in May, I get to start the whole process of getting legal again I'm feeling almost too optimistic in hoping the situation gets clarified by May. (And, I almost miss the TRT regime...almost.)

[Kilgore Trout]

Hi, I'm a teacher at an international school here in LOS and I have recently been told that I have to take a cultural training course. I have been here 8 years and speak pretty fluent Thai, can read and write, know heaps about the culture (have had a Thai wedding etc.).

My school has told me that it is possible that I pass out but I have to schedule a test early and they are very weary of the beaurocratic system. Apparently if you take the course you don't have to take the test (one day training course). You can imagine how excited I am about sitting through that.

Been here long enough to know that probably even the ministry guys don't even know what's going on, the office staff at my school suggest I just sit through the course.

Does anyone know anything about this?

[mrt273nva]

If I had to sit through a cultural class I think I'd pass out too.

[sbk]

Moving to the teaching in Thailand forum

///MOVED///

[Petch01]

Hi, I'm a teacher at an international school here in LOS and I have recently been told that I have to take a cultural training course. I have been here 8 years and speak pretty fluent Thai, can read and write, know heaps about the culture (have had a Thai wedding etc.).

The Thai Language, Culture and Ethics Course is given by several institutes. Some are 3 consecutive days, others are 2 weekends. The costs vary between 4,000 and 8,000 THB. There is NO test or exam. You will get a certificate though.

When you would have applied for a TCT-Teacher License before the end of 2006, you would have been exempted and by now you would be one of the happy few with the Teachers License of The Teachers' Council of Thailand.

http://www.ksp.or.th/upload/301/files/570-8429.pdf Clause 6.

Petch01

[Petch01]

School's almost out and when I return in May, I get to start the whole process of getting legal again I'm feeling almost too optimistic in hoping the situation gets clarified by May. (And, I almost miss the TRT regime...almost.)

Alaina,

I dearly hope everything works out fine for you.

Good luck.

Petch01

[Loaded]

Heard a rumour that Chaing Mai Rajabaht are offering the 4 Teacher Proficiency Tests on April 4th for 4k THB. This is around the same time that teachers eligible to take the test will be on their summer hols sitting on a beach on one of the islands 800kms away.