Russian PM: West is rekindling the Cold War with NATO moves

[rooster59]

Russian PM: West is rekindling the Cold War with NATO moves

DAVID RISING, Associated Press


MUNICH (AP) — Russia's prime minister accused NATO on Saturday of restarting the Cold War amid increased military maneuvers and troop deployments to countries neighboring Russia, moves the alliance's top official defended as a necessary response to aggression from Moscow.

Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev told a meeting of top defense officials, diplomats and national leaders that sanctions imposed after Russia's 2014 annexation of Crimea and new moves by NATO "only aggravate" tensions.

"NATO's policies related to Russia remain unfriendly and opaque — one could go so far as to say we have slid back to a new Cold War," Medvedev said. "On almost a daily basis, we're called one of the most terrible threats either to NATO as a whole, or Europe, or to the United States."

The comments came after NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg told the Munich Security Conference that "Russia's rhetoric, posture and exercises of its nuclear forces are aimed at intimidating its neighbors, undermining trust and stability in Europe."

Later, Stoltenberg told The Associated Press in an interview that all of NATO's moves had been made in response to Russian aggression.

"NATO does not seek confrontation and we do not want a new Cold War. But we had to respond to the Russian military buildup, which we have seen over several years," he said. "Not only a military buildup, but the fact that Russia is willing to use military power to change borders in Europe as they have done in Ukraine."

The annual conference in Munich is one known for frank talk among top officials.

Speaking after Medvedev, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry fired back that Europe and the United States would continue to "stand up to Russia's repeated aggression" and noted that in addition to a joint focus on Ukraine, Washington plans to quadruple spending to help European security. That will allow the U.S. to maintain a division's worth of equipment in Europe and an additional combat brigade in Central and Eastern Europe.

NATO also announced this past week it would add new multinational reinforcements to beef up defenses of front-line alliance members most at risk from Russia.

"Those who claim our trans-Atlantic partnership is unraveling — or those who hope it might unravel — could not be more wrong," Kerry said.

Stoltenberg stressed the need for dialogue, but also defended NATO's move to strengthen defenses, including moving more troops and equipment to countries bordering Russia. He said at a summer summit in Warsaw he expects NATO members "to decide to further strengthen the alliance's defense and deterrence."

He told the AP it was also a positive "first step" that NATO members have mostly stopped cuts to their defense budgets and were working toward NATO's expectation that its members spend 2 percent of GDP on defense — a goal few meet.

"I think all politicians would prefer to spend money on education, health, infrastructure. But security doesn't come for free, and as tensions increase then we have to adapt," he said. "When tensions went down after the end of the Cold War there was a peace dividend and defense spending went down. But when tensions are increasing, then we have to again increase our defense investments."

Expressing the concerns of some Eastern European countries, Lithuanian President Dalia Grybauskaite told the conference that Moscow is already "demonstrating open military aggression in Ukraine, open military aggression in Syria."

"It's nothing about cold," she said, referring to Medvedev's Cold War comments. "It is already very hot."

Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko blasted Russia's actions in both Ukraine and Syria, saying they are "a demonstration that we live in a completely different universe" from Russia.

He said the main danger to Europeans now is an "alternative Europe with alternative values" such as isolation, intolerance and disrespect for human rights. Poroshenko added: "This alternative Europe has its own leader. His name is Mr. Putin."

Stoltenberg, in his conference address, underlined that NATO's deterrent also included nuclear weapons, saying "no one should think that nuclear weapons can be used as part of a conventional conflict — it would change the nature of any conflict fundamentally."

Medvedev scoffed at what he said was a suggestion that Russia may use nuclear weapons in a first strike.

"Sometimes I wonder if it's 2016 or if we live in 1962," he said, referring to the year of the Cuban missile crisis.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov weighed in later, saying "it seems that old instincts are still viable."

"Clichés of ideological confrontation are returning into common use, the conceptual basis of which ceased to exist a quarter of a century ago," he said. "We need to agree on reforms of the world order, because such NATO-centered self-conceit, which reflects political short-sightedness, causes severe damage to the search for responses to common real challenges."

Medvedev also called for sanctions on Russia imposed after it annexed Crimea to be lifted, saying they are "a road that leads nowhere." He suggested the West would only harm itself if it did not lift the sanctions soon.

"The longer the sanctions continue, the more chances fade for Europeans to keep their positions in Russian markets as investors and suppliers," he said. "That's why one has to act quickly."

Kerry said if Russia wants an end to sanctions, it has the "simple choice" of fully implementing the Minsk peace accord agreed upon last year.

"Russia can prove by its actions that it will respect Ukraine's sovereignty, just as it insists on respect for its own," he said.

-- (c) Associated Press 2016-01-14

[mrrizzla]

It never really ended. ...

[CaptHaddock]

The treacherous US at work again. Just like Truman breaking the Yalta agreements with Stalin once he had the bomb in his pocket. Bush I promised Gorbachev in 1990 not to expand NATO in the east to include Poland, Hungary, or Czechoslovakia. But then they did. The map shows current NATO countries in blue. So, they provoked the Russians who responded predictably enough by invading Ukraine.

[craigt3365]

Of course, it's always the West's fault. Russia has done nothing to make others nervous. Ukraine, Georgia, Syria, Chechnya, massive military buildup, numerous airspace incursions, etc. LOL

http://www.newsweek.com/putin-explores-legal-loopholes-take-back-baltic-nations-354379

Putin Explores Legal Loopholes to Take Back the Baltic Nations

[CaptHaddock]

Of course, it's always the West's fault. Russia has done nothing to make others nervous. Ukraine, Georgia, Syria, Chechnya, massive military buildup, numerous airspace incursions, etc. LOL

http://www.newsweek.com/putin-explores-legal-loopholes-take-back-baltic-nations-354379

Putin Explores Legal Loopholes to Take Back the Baltic Nations

So, if I can summarize your view with all of its nuance: Us good. Them bad.

Certainly keeps things simple.

[craigt3365]

Of course, it's always the West's fault. Russia has done nothing to make others nervous. Ukraine, Georgia, Syria, Chechnya, massive military buildup, numerous airspace incursions, etc. LOL

http://www.newsweek.com/putin-explores-legal-loopholes-take-back-baltic-nations-354379

Putin Explores Legal Loopholes to Take Back the Baltic Nations

So, if I can summarize your view with all of its nuance: Us good. Them bad.

Certainly keeps things simple.

Where did I say that???? I've never said that.

[CaptHaddock]

Of course, it's always the West's fault. Russia has done nothing to make others nervous. Ukraine, Georgia, Syria, Chechnya, massive military buildup, numerous airspace incursions, etc. LOL

http://www.newsweek.com/putin-explores-legal-loopholes-take-back-baltic-nations-354379

Putin Explores Legal Loopholes to Take Back the Baltic Nations

So, if I can summarize your view with all of its nuance: Us good. Them bad.

Certainly keeps things simple.

Where did I say that???? I've never said that.

You completely ignored the point I was making that the US reneged on its promise not to expand NATO to the east, which it in fact proceeded to do aggressively. If you are unable to comprehend that actions by the West, led by the US, are likely to provoke a reaction from the Russians who now face the guns of NATO right at their borders, then your view qualifies as ludicrously simplistic.

[RabC]

Has NATO forced its views on any one? Has NATO invaded a sovereign nation? Does NATO daily push its air force right to the limits of sovereign airspace and occasionally across it? Where is the aggressive stance that NATO is showing?

Having forces on standby to react is not warmongering in my opinion, I call it a sensible precaution. I guess Soviet apologists feel different.

Are you also saying that if a Sovereign nation wishes to join NATO to protect it sovereignty from invasion by the bully on the block that they shouldn't be allowed?

Edited February 14, 2016 by RabC

[craigt3365]

You completely ignored the point I was making that the US reneged on its promise not to expand NATO to the east, which it in fact proceeded to do aggressively. If you are unable to comprehend that actions by the West, led by the US, are likely to provoke a reaction from the Russians who now face the guns of NATO right at their borders, then your view qualifies as ludicrously simplistic.

Where did you say in your post the US reneged on it's promise not to expand Nato? That's a good point for discussion, but you didn't mention it at first.

Be nice.

[CaptHaddock]

Has NATO forced its views on any one? Has NATO invaded a sovereign nation? Does NATO daily push its air force right to the limits of sovereign airspace and occasionally across it? Where is the aggressive stance that NATO is showing?

Having forces on standby to react is not warmongering in my opinion, I call it a sensible precaution. I guess Soviet apologists feel different.

Are you also saying that if a Sovereign nation wishes to join NATO to protect it sovereignty from invasion by the bully on the block that they shouldn't be allowed?

NATO should have disbanded when the Warsaw Pact disbanded. In the absence of the Pact and the dissolution of the Soviet Union what legitimate function does NATO serve? Disbanding NATO, either in 1990 or now, would serve to reduce tensions in the area. Instead they push right up to the Russian border and then claim to be bewildered when the Russians get panicky.

But I forget. WE are the good ones. Our intentions are forever pure and peaceful. THEY are the evil empire, etc. etc.

[klauskunkel]

The treacherous US at work again. Just like Truman breaking the Yalta agreements with Stalin once he had the bomb in his pocket. Bush I promised Gorbachev in 1990 not to expand NATO in the east to include Poland, Hungary, or Czechoslovakia. But then they did. The map shows current NATO countries in blue. So, they provoked the Russians who responded predictably enough by invading Ukraine.

I don't quite understand the logic of your post: Poland, Hungary and Czechoslovakia are sovereign nations who chose to join NATO. And therefore Russia invaded Ukraine...?!

Now, if Poland, Hungary and Czechoslovakia had allied with Russia instead, do you think by the same token that America would have invaded Ukraine?

[CaptHaddock]

The treacherous US at work again. Just like Truman breaking the Yalta agreements with Stalin once he had the bomb in his pocket. Bush I promised Gorbachev in 1990 not to expand NATO in the east to include Poland, Hungary, or Czechoslovakia. But then they did. The map shows current NATO countries in blue. So, they provoked the Russians who responded predictably enough by invading Ukraine.

I don't quite understand the logic of your post: Poland, Hungary and Czechoslovakia are sovereign nations who chose to join NATO. And therefore Russia invaded Ukraine...?!

Now, if Poland, Hungary and Czechoslovakia had allied with Russia instead, do you think by the same token that America would have invaded Ukraine?

Ukraine applied to join NATO in 2008. When Cuba went communist in 1960 the US indeed had multiple plans to invade Cuba and only failed to do so because JFK would not go along with the military.

The US should disband NATO now since there is not legitimate reason other to threaten the Russians.

[craigt3365]

The treacherous US at work again. Just like Truman breaking the Yalta agreements with Stalin once he had the bomb in his pocket. Bush I promised Gorbachev in 1990 not to expand NATO in the east to include Poland, Hungary, or Czechoslovakia. But then they did. The map shows current NATO countries in blue. So, they provoked the Russians who responded predictably enough by invading Ukraine.

I don't quite understand the logic of your post: Poland, Hungary and Czechoslovakia are sovereign nations who chose to join NATO. And therefore Russia invaded Ukraine...?!

Now, if Poland, Hungary and Czechoslovakia had allied with Russia instead, do you think by the same token that America would have invaded Ukraine?

Ukraine applied to join NATO in 2008. When Cuba went communist in 1960 the US indeed had multiple plans to invade Cuba and only failed to do so because JFK would not go along with the military.

The US should disband NATO now since there is not legitimate reason other to threaten the Russians.

NATO is primarily a European organization. Headquartered in Europe, run by a European, and primarily funded by European countries. How can the US disband this?

[RabC]

Has NATO forced its views on any one? Has NATO invaded a sovereign nation? Does NATO daily push its air force right to the limits of sovereign airspace and occasionally across it? Where is the aggressive stance that NATO is showing?

Having forces on standby to react is not warmongering in my opinion, I call it a sensible precaution. I guess Soviet apologists feel different.

Are you also saying that if a Sovereign nation wishes to join NATO to protect it sovereignty from invasion by the bully on the block that they shouldn't be allowed?

NATO should have disbanded when the Warsaw Pact disbanded. In the absence of the Pact and the dissolution of the Soviet Union what legitimate function does NATO serve? Disbanding NATO, either in 1990 or now, would serve to reduce tensions in the area. Instead they push right up to the Russian border and then claim to be bewildered when the Russians get panicky.

But I forget. WE are the good ones. Our intentions are forever pure and peaceful. THEY are the evil empire, etc. etc.

The Warsaw Pact wasn't disbanded it fell apart in a snotty heap. NATO was never and is not solely defence from Russia it is there to protect the interests of its members from any threat whether Russian, mad men or aliens from Mars. The fact you thought NATO was solely for defence from Russia shows your lack of understanding of defence policies and totally invalidates your comments.

You have a pacifist outlook on life and feel free to maintain it, but it was normally those kind of guys who were left crying in the school playground as they didn't believe in safety in numbers.

Edited February 14, 2016 by RabC

[craigt3365]

Good point RabC. As far as military operations, I don't see any against Russia. Nor it's partners:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO#Military_operations

[jesimps]

Has NATO forced its views on any one? Has NATO invaded a sovereign nation? Does NATO daily push its air force right to the limits of sovereign airspace and occasionally across it? Where is the aggressive stance that NATO is showing?

Having forces on standby to react is not warmongering in my opinion, I call it a sensible precaution. I guess Soviet apologists feel different.

Are you also saying that if a Sovereign nation wishes to join NATO to protect it sovereignty from invasion by the bully on the block that they shouldn't be allowed?

NATO should have disbanded when the Warsaw Pact disbanded. In the absence of the Pact and the dissolution of the Soviet Union what legitimate function does NATO serve? Disbanding NATO, either in 1990 or now, would serve to reduce tensions in the area. Instead they push right up to the Russian border and then claim to be bewildered when the Russians get panicky.

But I forget. WE are the good ones. Our intentions are forever pure and peaceful. THEY are the evil empire, etc. etc.

What's the mental condition called that causes people to hate their own side? Seems to be prevalent on the left of the political spectrum. Do these people flay themselves every night to atone for being who they are?

Nowt queer as folk.

[klauskunkel]

The treacherous US at work again. Just like Truman breaking the Yalta agreements with Stalin once he had the bomb in his pocket. Bush I promised Gorbachev in 1990 not to expand NATO in the east to include Poland, Hungary, or Czechoslovakia. But then they did. The map shows current NATO countries in blue. So, they provoked the Russians who responded predictably enough by invading Ukraine.

I don't quite understand the logic of your post: Poland, Hungary and Czechoslovakia are sovereign nations who chose to join NATO. And therefore Russia invaded Ukraine...?!

Now, if Poland, Hungary and Czechoslovakia had allied with Russia instead, do you think by the same token that America would have invaded Ukraine?

Ukraine applied to join NATO in 2008. When Cuba went communist in 1960 the US indeed had multiple plans to invade Cuba and only failed to do so because JFK would not go along with the military.

The US should disband NATO now since there is not legitimate reason other to threaten the Russians.

You call the US treacherous, but you condone and even justify Russia's aggression? According to you, Truman broke the Yalta agreement and the US had plans to invade Cuba, but they didn't invade... Yet Russia's aggression is being absolved by you because they "had been provoked"? In essence, according to all the points you are making, you are siding with a murderer against someone who "had plans"...

[Grouse]

Again, you really need to know the history

How many times has Russia been invaded?

Casualties?

So, assuming you have looked it all up, maybe you can understand Russia's fear if not paranoia

Russia wants a buffer zone of independent countries surrounding it

The thought of American military ( did I say trigger happy) on their borders is bound to be worrying.

Read the history and learn before invading anyone!

[Enoon]

Again, you really need to know the history

How many times has Russia been invaded?

Casualties?

So, assuming you have looked it all up, maybe you can understand Russia's fear if not paranoia

Russia wants a buffer zone of independent countries surrounding it

The thought of American military ( did I say trigger happy) on their borders is bound to be worrying.

Read the history and learn before invading anyone!

Poor little paranoid fearful Russia.

Russias "fear" is the fear of a crumbling absolutist empire. One that has ruled it's own "citizens" by intimidation and outright terror for nearly 1000 years.

"Russia wants a buffer zone of independent countries surrounding it"

No it doesn't, it wants countries under it's hegemony surrounding it, as before. Just as China wants "tributary" countries surrounding itself.

Even better, and what is bubbling in the proud (but bruised, a dangerous combination) Nationalist/Imperialist/President for Life mind of ex KGB man Putin, is the return of the Old Empire. (Romanov and Soviet)

A bit like the UK wanting to reclaim the Republic of Ireland or India.

How mad would that be? But not, (apparently in your mind) for Russia!

[daveAustin]

Oh what a different place the world would be without Russia and... islam (sorry, had to get it in, it's in every other thread). One can but dream.

[SOTIRIOS]

.......the populace.....poor saps....... will continue to pay taxes all their lives for such charades....

[klauskunkel]

You call the US treacherous, but you condone and even justify Russia's aggression? According to you, Truman broke the Yalta agreement and the US had plans to invade Cuba, but they didn't invade... Yet Russia's aggression is being absolved by you because they "had been provoked"? In essence, according to all the points you are making, you are siding with a murderer against someone who "had plans"...

How is it possible to be so ignorant of this history? The US did invade Cuba, by proxy, in April of 1962, equipping a force of Cubans supervised by the CIA and with some (but not enough) support of repainted US planes and overflight by spy palnes. Thereafter, despite the unanimous urging of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Secretary of Defence and other cabinet members, JFK declined to allow a full-scale invasion by the US military. He did continue to support plan after plan to overthrow the Cuban government by assassination and inciting a coup, although these plans all failed. You miss the aggression in that?

I didn't express any opinion about the Russian actions, much less did I "absolve" them. I merely pointed out that given the breaking of diplomatic promises by expanding NATO aggressively threatening Russia, they provoked the Russian response which they could and should have foreseen.

Fine, I concede your historical points of the US being aggressive towards Cuba from 50 years ago...Yet you have not answered my question earlier: "Now, if Poland, Hungary and Czechoslovakia had allied with Russia instead, do you think by the same token that America would have invaded Ukraine?"

[RabC]

Can we please move the focus off the USA, the topic is NATO. Just as when the UK went to war with Argentina in 1982 was nothing to do with NATO, neither was the Bay of Pigs anything to do with NATO. If NATO is the supposed evil empire that the tree huggers think it is, then it's is every member nation and not just the USA that is evil. Also it was not for Bush to say that he wouldn't allow NATO to expand, it was for all NATO members to agree to stop expansion.

To clarify, is this thread to beat up America for its foreign policy, or is it to respond to the Russian PMs comments about NATO?

Edited February 14, 2016 by RabC

[ardokano]

The treacherous US at work again. Just like Truman breaking the Yalta agreements with Stalin once he had the bomb in his pocket. Bush I promised Gorbachev in 1990 not to expand NATO in the east to include Poland, Hungary, or Czechoslovakia. But then they did. The map shows current NATO countries in blue. So, they provoked the Russians who responded predictably enough by invading Ukraine.

Us?

NATO

Headquarters -Brussels, Belgium

Secretary General-Jens Stoltenberg

Chairman of the NATO Military Committee- Petr Pavel

"Just like Truman breaking the Yalta agreements with Stalin once he had the bomb in his pocket."

Yes, breaking agreements its no good. But in my opinion make agreements with crime and terrorist(who was Stalin )worse.

"Bush I promised Gorbachev in 1990 not to expand NATO"

Who is Bush?

What power his have in NATO?

So, they provoked the Russians who responded predictably enough by invading Ukraine.

Please not say this is. If you do not know what about you talking

Putin nots not Russians.

did not hear that he refused membership in the bandit groups of Communists. Bandit group of Communists from the beginning of its existence was anti- Russian.

[Grouse]

Again, you really need to know the history

How many times has Russia been invaded?

Casualties?

So, assuming you have looked it all up, maybe you can understand Russia's fear if not paranoia

Russia wants a buffer zone of independent countries surrounding it

The thought of American military ( did I say trigger happy) on their borders is bound to be worrying.

Read the history and learn before invading anyone!

Poor little paranoid fearful Russia.

Russias "fear" is the fear of a crumbling absolutist empire. One that has ruled it's own "citizens" by intimidation and outright terror for nearly 1000 years.

"Russia wants a buffer zone of independent countries surrounding it"

No it doesn't, it wants countries under it's hegemony surrounding it, as before. Just as China wants "tributary" countries surrounding itself.

Even better, and what is bubbling in the proud (but bruised, a dangerous combination) Nationalist/Imperialist/President for Life mind of ex KGB man Putin, is the return of the Old Empire. (Romanov and Soviet)

A bit like the UK wanting to reclaim the Republic of Ireland or India.

How mad would that be? But not, (apparently in your mind) for Russia!

Dear me.

Russia has been INVADED on several occasions. We, the British, have not been invaded for a thousand years. I think that could be considered a basis for some Paranoia!

Putin is an evil bugger but I was considering the Russian people not just him

We have no interest in Eire, in fact we would like them to take Ulster

As for India, most want the British back! At least you would not have to worry about Pakistan! However, my mate Deepak reckons they are taking us over via immigration and Chicken Vindaloo

[ardokano]

The treacherous US at work again. Just like Truman breaking the Yalta agreements with Stalin once he had the bomb in his pocket. Bush I promised Gorbachev in 1990 not to expand NATO in the east to include Poland, Hungary, or Czechoslovakia. But then they did. The map shows current NATO countries in blue. So, they provoked the Russians who responded predictably enough by invading Ukraine.

I don't quite understand the logic of your post: Poland, Hungary and Czechoslovakia are sovereign nations who chose to join NATO. And therefore Russia invaded Ukraine...?!

Now, if Poland, Hungary and Czechoslovakia had allied with Russia instead, do you think by the same token that America would have invaded Ukraine?

Ukraine applied to join NATO in 2008. When Cuba went communist in 1960 the US indeed had multiple plans to invade Cuba and only failed to do so because JFK would not go along with the military.

The US should disband NATO now since there is not legitimate reason other to threaten the Russians.

I think NATO its not clean and not for protect millitary aliance.

But Communist was show face before 1960.

Oficial policy communist its TERROR.

Read history

RED TERROR on Territory REAL Russia.

Read what happened in China.

German Nacist nothing new do what wasnt communist.

So you compare Terrorist group( its they self say when make RED TERROR as oficial policy they group) with military aliance?

Yes its aliance not clean

In this is aliance not evry where follow rules and lows.

But its not be not near with terrorist group of communist.

[GeorgesAbitbol]

For those complaining about Ukraine, they maybe should look at the Serbia/bosnia war. Russia did the same.

Now let jist imagine USA has russia friends close to its border :mexico, canada, and of course Cuba. What uncle Sam would do.?

Russia has a tough government but they see USA and nato all around their borders. Being countries or USA army bases.

Usa and europe play a dangerous hegemonic game around the world, and everywhere they go they bring mess instead of stability

[derator01]

Several off topic posts have been removed from view. Please stick to the topic. Apologies to the members with the appropriate replies.

Per forum rules:

Posting Content & General Conduct

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[MZurf]

Of course, it's always the West's fault. Russia has done nothing to make others nervous. Ukraine, Georgia, Syria, Chechnya, massive military buildup, numerous airspace incursions, etc. LOL

http://www.newsweek.com/putin-explores-legal-loopholes-take-back-baltic-nations-354379

Putin Explores Legal Loopholes to Take Back the Baltic Nations

So, if I can summarize your view with all of its nuance: Us good. Them bad.

Certainly keeps things simple.

"So, if I can summarize your view with all of its nuance: Us good. Them bad."

Spot on!

[simple1]

Before further comments by members might be a good idea to review NATO's official response to Russian accusations.

NATO-Russia relations: the facts

Since Russia began its illegal military intervention in Ukraine, Russian officials have accused NATO of a series of mythical provocations, threats and hostile actions stretching back over 25 years. This webpage sets out the facts.

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_111767.htm?