Evidence from UK's National Crime Agency 'critical' in sentencing Koh Tao killers to death

[boomerangutang]

How did the defense "waste the whole trial going on about gait analysis"? I don't think gait analysis was even mentioned at the trial. Or if so, just fleetingly. I would gladly welcome in-depth & professional gait analysis of the 3 Running Man videos. I think it would show, without a doubt, that RM is Nomsod. For obvious reasons, gait analysis was not done in relation to NS. RM's gait may have been compared to one of the B3, but if there was a match, RTP and prosecution would be crowing about it from the rooftops. Instead: not a peep. Oh, and there persists the recollection of that lovely honest man MON saying it was himself. Anyone who believes that, will want to buy some anti-baldness cream from me - only Bt.39,000 per 1 oz. bottle.

The reason the B2 have stuck with their not guilty plea is because they're not guilty. They knew, before during and after they made that plea that it would carry the death penalty, and a plea of guilty would spare their lives, .....yet they have the strength of character to maintain what's right and speak the truth, even though it could cause them to be killed by Thai authorities before they reach their 25th birthdays. I don't know if I would have such courage. Would you?

the video footage of running man was submitted by the family of the guy who you are trying to say is the running man!!

you may not be aware due to having no knowledge of koh tao whatsoever that that entire end of the beach is owned by the same family....do you think they would have given video footage to the police of 1 of their own??

at the end of the day all off your information comes from csi la, and his came from 3/4/5 hand gossip and hearsay from a frenzy of stories and press itching for the latest headline!

just because you guys think they don't look like butter wouldn't melt doesn't mean they didn't! why wouldn't they at point of death penalty say..enoughs enough and grass up the actual murderers??..they are looking at death either way, why not make it known to the international media and go out in a blaze of glory???

not correct, that video was from an independent shop and published by a senior police officer who was actually doing his job, he was removed from the investigation because he was doing some honest police work, cctv in bars was a legal requirement form a few years now and yet the place (AC Bar) where the two victims were last seen alive was withheld - we cannot show you, I'm pretty sure it was all deleted, you have to ask why, surely such video footage would have helped in solving the two murders and yet someone thought it was best to hide it..........including the police who could have legally demanded it as evidence - maybe they just didn't like what it was showing, evidence like that is either going to support your case or maybe best to hide it - in the west that would put investigators in jail

So anyway how many phones are we up to now, was it 6 or 7 smashed up or otherwise and still only 1 IMEI number and only the Thai police (in whom we trust) know which phone it belonged too..............................prove it, along with the original samples of DNA .......produce them, show the finger prints and dna from the phone.....or better not as that can be challenged, it is quite interesting that not one fingerprint was submitted as evidence - the holy grail of evidence to this day as it cannot be faked or copied and can very easily and 100% be verified............not one fingerprint from a phone that was supposed to have been handled by the accused.......for me just something else that adds to the - stitch up camp, if you handle a phone you leave fingerprints and dna......simple as that

and what about David, where are his clothes, mainly his teeshirt , it would have puncture holes similar to his arms face and neck if he had been wearing it at the time of the assault - which would blow the theory that he took it off if he was in some sort of romantic situation with Hannah (which I doubt) - I believe he heard screams from the beach on his way home and went to investigate -

did his clothes show signs of puncture wounds or dna - oh yeh that's right they seemed to have disappeared, the prosecution/police lost the clothes...........seriously they lost the victims clothes ????????

I honestly wish everything the prosecution presented was authentic and could be backed up.....but it isn't, the prosecution/police case has massive holes that just would never stand up in any western justice system, and before anyone says "this is Thailand - Thai justice system" it comes down to common sense, anyone with an ounce of collective thought would know that you cannot just stand up in court and make a claim without producing evidence to support it........... yes he did it because I say so....prove me wrong - which just about sums up this whole thing, it is antiquated simplistic and a few hundreds years out of date - back in the dark ages but trying to mix in modern tech (like dna) without the standards, it is almost childish to think that sensible people are going to be fooled - although I must admit there are a few posting on TVF that are .........well and truly fooled beyond belief

good night all (I didn't proof read my post - too tired lol)

Glad to learn that you are in possession of all the evidence and have the skills, knowledge and expertise to evaluate its worth.

What qualification(s) do you have exactly? ------------Are you a lawyer trained in Thai jurisprudence , a trained and qualified investigator or a forensic scientist ?

Maybe you are some other kind of "expert" if so please tell us.

He has abilities which can discern between buffaloshit and truth. Some RTP have that ability also, but they've chosen to lock arms to shovel out only buffaloshit in this case, because their superiors told them to squelch the truth. Justice in Thailand is all about 'social status' and 'how rich a person is, and how much gravy that person can spread around.' Thai justice laughs at truth. Thai officials cannot function without knowing the social status of the person they're dealing with.

Right now (headline news in Thailand), there's a head monk who is being shown as having done some illegal things. Thai officials are being forced (by public concern) to look at it (even tho RTP would rather ignore it), but even so, they're only focused on one of the head monk's underlings. They can't even fathom looking at the head monk himself, from a legal perspective. The head monk is the opposite of B2 from a Thai legal perspective.

[lucky11]

Frank,

Nobody owns the beach!! Stop passing misinformation on dressed as fact

Then you go on to accuse others of misinforming, when your lot are the main culprits of this tactic - don't worry, we are not taken in by this ploy as we realise that your case is so weak that you have to resort to this type of thing. We are on your case and we will continue to post truths only rather than stoop to your level!!

[lucky11]

For those of us who know Thailand relatively well, will be well aware of what happens to the guilty party(ies) of a crime during a murder re-enactment, right?

So, my question to those are pressing for the B2 to be executed is: during their re-enactment on the beach where the savage murders took place, why oh why was there not a murmur of hatred, passion, revenge etc. within a tight community whereby two supposedly lower migrant workers raped, murdered and mutilated two young, intelligent tourists to their island? The very people who fill their pockets and keep their economy alive?

Surely such a close knit community will know who or at least who did not do it?! I saw none of that and that speaks volumes more than the lies, and smoke and mirror shows on here and at the circus of a trial.

They are not the killers and the whole island knows it!

Two 'supposedly lower migrant workers" and two 'young and intelligent tourists' - statements like this speaks volumes about your general views regarding class differences.

Do you think that women are equal to men? Be careful how you answer this as there are two prominent women on this show!!

Edited February 20, 2016 by lucky11

[frank83628]

Frank,

Nobody owns the beach!! Stop passing misinformation on dressed as fact

Then you go on to accuse others of misinforming, when your lot are the main culprits of this tactic - don't worry, we are not taken in by this ploy as we realise that your case is so weak that you have to resort to this type of thing. We are on your case and we will continue to post truths only rather than stoop to your level!!

you know exactly what i meant by own the beach...that family occupies the land on that entire stretch of the beach...is that better for you???

is that all you can pick up on from what i wrote??...how about your answer to the fact that it was NS family that the cctv comes from?..how would you explain them giving the cops their nephew on tape if they were involved.. people claim they are SO powerful, surely they would have been able to put a stop to that straight away?

Edited February 20, 2016 by frank83628

[catsanddogs]

Common sense would tell you that the middle line is longer but it isn't:

That is not common sense. It's eyes tricking mind into perceiving something which is not fact. Common sense tells one to measure the lines to check the lengths.

[JLCrab]

Common sense would tell you that the middle line is longer but it isn't:

That is not common sense. It's eyes tricking mind into perceiving something which is not fact. Common sense tells one to measure the lines to check the lengths.

Right -- common sense dictates that everyone carry around a ruler with them.

[catsanddogs]

Common sense would tell you that the middle line is longer but it isn't:

That is not common sense. It's eyes tricking mind into perceiving something which is not fact. Common sense tells one to measure the lines to check the lengths.

Right -- common sense dictates that everyone carry around a ruler with them.

Common sense dictates that police forces ensure crimes of scenes are not tampered with, evidence is bagged, photographed and stored securely etc etc. Easy as pie, even for a kiddy. One doesn't need a ruler for you example - piece of paper, string or something cut to the length of one of the lines to check would do the trick. 'Oh!' I hear you cry - 'but does everyone carry paper or string or scissors around with them'.

[JLCrab]

Common sense can be right and common sense can be wrong.

[KunMatt]

Frank,

Nobody owns the beach!! Stop passing misinformation on dressed as fact

Then you go on to accuse others of misinforming, when your lot are the main culprits of this tactic - don't worry, we are not taken in by this ploy as we realise that your case is so weak that you have to resort to this type of thing. We are on your case and we will continue to post truths only rather than stoop to your level!!

Says the man who deliberately pretended to not understand a Tweet from AH and posted the same lie over and over for a week on here just to cause as much disruption as possible about nothing. You cannot stoop to any level from your lowly position after that. We won't forget about that.

[lucky11]

Frank,

Nobody owns the beach!! Stop passing misinformation on dressed as fact

Then you go on to accuse others of misinforming, when your lot are the main culprits of this tactic - don't worry, we are not taken in by this ploy as we realise that your case is so weak that you have to resort to this type of thing. We are on your case and we will continue to post truths only rather than stoop to your level!!

Says the man who deliberately pretended to not understand a Tweet from AH and posted the same lie over and over for a week on here just to cause as much disruption as possible about nothing. You cannot stoop to any level from your lowly position after that. We won't forget about that.

It seems that you have memorised the same post and churned it out again, how utterly boring!!

I couldn't careless if you don't forget it - it was a genuine misunderstanding of how Twitter works and it is up to you whether you take my word for it. You can remember for eternity if you want, it will simply lie their dormant cluttering up your brain (even more).

This is making a mountain out of a mole hill and it is quite unbelievable why you keep on harping on about it.

I can imagine you in your 70's telling your grand children about this, as it seems to have made such a big affect on your life!!

[Khun Han]

"He's useful for the 'disruption factor'. He stays on the team."

[catsanddogs]

What about this phone (unbagged!)? The iphone police said they found in David's luggage with long blonde hairs snagged in it maybe? It doesn't have a cracked screen (yet). Was this phone shown in court?

Edited February 20, 2016 by catsanddogs

[StealthEnergiser]

Frank,

Nobody owns the beach!! Stop passing misinformation on dressed as fact

Then you go on to accuse others of misinforming, when your lot are the main culprits of this tactic - don't worry, we are not taken in by this ploy as we realise that your case is so weak that you have to resort to this type of thing. We are on your case and we will continue to post truths only rather than stoop to your level!!

Says the man who deliberately pretended to not understand a Tweet from AH and posted the same lie over and over for a week on here just to cause as much disruption as possible about nothing. You cannot stoop to any level from your lowly position after that. We won't forget about that.

It seems that you have memorised the same post and churned it out again, how utterly boring!!

I couldn't careless if you don't forget it - it was a genuine misunderstanding of how Twitter works and it is up to you whether you take my word for it. You can remember for eternity if you want, it will simply lie their dormant cluttering up your brain (even more).

This is making a mountain out of a mole hill and it is quite unbelievable why you keep on harping on about it.

I can imagine you in your 70's telling your grand children about this, as it seems to have made such a big affect on your life!!

No need to get upset miss he makes a very good point you should be a bit more careful before making such statements.

[StealthEnergiser]

What about this phone (unbagged!)? The iphone police said they found in David's luggage with long blonde hairs snagged in it maybe? It doesn't have a cracked screen (yet). Was this phone shown in court?

exactly C&D what happened with that phone ,they were very quick to pin davids picture on the sheet yet now its seems to be missing like Hannah's clothes.

[Khun Han]

According to AleG, Chris Ware or someone else left it in David's bag . Like you do. A 30,000 Baht iphone's just a disposable item like an empty box of matches or snack wrapper, isn't it?

[KunMatt]

According to AleG, Chris Ware or someone else left it in David's bag . Like you do. A 30,000 Baht iphone's just a disposable item like an empty box of matches or snack wrapper, isn't it?

Yes it makes no sense for it to be anyone's phone other than David's inside his own luggage. Like a normal person, you take a cheap phone out with you on a pub crawl and lock your expensive real phone away in your luggage. That's what I've always ever done.

[stephenterry]

At the end of the day, the brit police were quite within their rights to confirm the phone issue.

Not according to the article that this thread has been about. Mainly because the UK foreign policy is not to provide any evidence to a country that carries a death penalty. And especially Thailand where any such information is used to the benefit of the prosecution even if the wrong men are on trial and since convicted with a death sentence.

[catsanddogs]

Photo of black iphone4 from wiki.

Photo of phone on sheet of paper which appears to be a black iphone4 with what seems to be a photo of David Miller.

Photo of smashed phone police say is a black iphone4 belonging to David which was found behind lodgings. Is that an iphone4?

Was the smashed phone presented in court?

[boomerangutang]

how about your answer to the fact that it was NS family that the cctv comes from?..how would you explain them giving the cops their nephew on tape if they were involved.. people claim they are SO powerful, surely they would have been able to put a stop to that straight away?

Frank, I agree with most you write, but can't quite agree that the 3 'Running Man' segments were given to cops by anyone connected to the Headman. I think Mon was so busy in those hours after the crime, trying to hide everything that might possibly point to his nephew (and himself and his tough-guy buddies?) That he didn't plug that hole. It's likely he didn't know of the tape before it was given/shown to police. He's a powerful player at that beach, but that doesn't mean he can control every little thing that goes on there. Someone mentioned earlier that a cop came forth with the tape (an uncorrupt cop, wow, that would be cool) - and that cop was quickly disciplined for that.

At the end of the day, the brit police were quite within their rights to confirm the phone issue.

Not according to the article that this thread has been about. Mainly because the UK foreign policy is not to provide any evidence to a country that carries a death penalty. And especially Thailand where any such information is used to the benefit of the prosecution even if the wrong men are on trial and since convicted with a death sentence.

Right. It highlights how out of touch Brit officials are with how things actually happen in Thailand. Brits could redeem some of their tarnished reputation if they would do their jobs, like publishing David's autopsy or interviewing D & H's friends or questioning Sean. As it stands, by doing the following, they show how they're too meek to stand up to Thai officials:

>>> Not insisting on a thorough investigation for their countrymen. Same as happened with Kirsty Jones unsolved rape/murder,

>>> Doing nothing during their 2 day, 4 hour total, non-investigation at the island. Oh, perhaps they got some foot massages,

>>> Reporting untruths to UK social workers, who conveyed the lies to the victims' families,

>>> Not following up on the two Brit backpackers who mysteriously died since Hannah's and David's murders. One died in Mon's g.h. She was majoring in journalism. What do journalists do? Among other things, they ask uncomfortable questions re; crimes. Did she ask a KT crime-related question re; Mon? She died from pharma pill overdose? Young, smart, beautiful girl like that? Doesn't seem likely.

>>> Channeling data to Thai officials, but not to defense team. (Brits know all about channeling) .

>>> Providing data that helped the subjective court convict and move toward executing the B2, contrary to British law,

>>> confirming; 'not rocking the ship of state is priority over finding who killed fellow Brits.'

David and Hannah deserve better from their country's authorities.

Edited February 20, 2016 by boomerangutang

[Khun Han]

Difficult to say from that poor quality screenshot. But the corners look a bit sharp for an iphone 4, and don't appear to have the antenna fixings. Are there any better photos of it?

[catsanddogs]

Difficult to say from that poor quality screenshot. But the corners look a bit sharp for an iphone 4, and don't appear to have the antenna fixings. Are there any better photos of it?

[AleG]

What about this phone (unbagged!)? The iphone police said they found in David's luggage with long blonde hairs snagged in it maybe? It doesn't have a cracked screen (yet). Was this phone shown in court?

There you (general you) go again, it's like you are misleading yourself on purpose or something. Where did the police said they found an iPhone in Miller's luggage? You are conflating things, then StealthEnergiser to comes along and doubles down on the BS by saying that's David Miller in the photo, I suppose after they found a passport sized photo where he died his hair black... which I'm sure I have pointed out before.

Yes, yes I did, to StealthEnergiser

So what we have here is StealthEnergiser (again) posting "material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false". Is it just to get attention?

AFAIK that's one of the phones found in the rooms of one of the Burmese taken in for questioning early on the investigation.

[AleG]

Difficult to say from that poor quality screenshot. But the corners look a bit sharp for an iphone 4, and don't appear to have the antenna fixings. Are there any better photos of it?

That's part of a video shot when the police found the phone, right?

[catsanddogs]

What about this phone (unbagged!)? The iphone police said they found in David's luggage with long blonde hairs snagged in it maybe? It doesn't have a cracked screen (yet). Was this phone shown in court?

There you (general you) go again, it's like you are misleading yourself on purpose or something. Where did the police said they found an iPhone in Miller's luggage? You are conflating things, then StealthEnergiser to comes along and doubles down on the BS by saying that's David Miller in the photo, I suppose after they found a passport sized photo where he died his hair black... which I'm sure I have pointed out before.

Yes, yes I did, to StealthEnergiser

So what we have here is StealthEnergiser (again) posting "material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false". Is it just to get attention?

AFAIK that's one of the phones found in the rooms of one of the Burmese taken in for questioning early on the investigation.

No, it is the phone found in the grounds at the lodgings not in one of the rooms of other Burmese earlier on. The photo of David is possibly a photocopy of his passport photo. There are plenty of photos of David on the web in which his hair looks dark. Photo below. It's all over the news should you care to look that police say they found an iphone snagged with long blonde hair in David's luggage.

[AleG]

What about this phone (unbagged!)? The iphone police said they found in David's luggage with long blonde hairs snagged in it maybe? It doesn't have a cracked screen (yet). Was this phone shown in court?

There you (general you) go again, it's like you are misleading yourself on purpose or something. Where did the police said they found an iPhone in Miller's luggage? You are conflating things, then StealthEnergiser to comes along and doubles down on the BS by saying that's David Miller in the photo, I suppose after they found a passport sized photo where he died his hair black... which I'm sure I have pointed out before.

Yes, yes I did, to StealthEnergiser

So what we have here is StealthEnergiser (again) posting "material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false". Is it just to get attention?

AFAIK that's one of the phones found in the rooms of one of the Burmese taken in for questioning early on the investigation.

No, it is the phone found in the grounds at the lodgings not in one of the rooms of other Burmese earlier on. The photo of David is possibly a photocopy of his passport photo. There are plenty of photos of David on the web in which his hair looks dark. Photo below. It's all over the news should you care to look that police say they found an iphone snagged with long blonde hair in David's luggage.

I suggest you get your facts from somewhere different from the echo chamber you are using now.

By the way, link to that video, pretty please?

Edited February 20, 2016 by AleG

[jayjay78]

Difficult to say from that poor quality screenshot. But the corners look a bit sharp for an iphone 4, and don't appear to have the antenna fixings. Are there any better photos of it?

Hey cats, just to add to the mix, better photo allegedly showing the phone found in the bushes, according to this its implying that its a samsung?

[Khun Han]

Well spotted jayjay. I've never seen a black iphone 4s with a silver frame around the screen on the front (and I just Google Imaged to confirm). They all have a metal band around the narrow edge which acts as an antenna.

[catsanddogs]

Difficult to say from that poor quality screenshot. But the corners look a bit sharp for an iphone 4, and don't appear to have the antenna fixings. Are there any better photos of it?

Hey cats, just to add to the mix, better photo allegedly showing the phone found in the bushes, according to this its implying that its a samsung?

Doing a google search of those phone images brings up a tutorial on changing a screen on the iphone5 on youtube (on the first photo with the orange tool being used). Still looking at the rest.

[boomerangutang]

Since we're talking about phones, here's a question:

Why didn't investigators scrutinize phones of all 'people of interest' as soon as possible? Mon's, NS's, the headman's, headman's wife, NS's brother, stingray man, hoe-man, big-ears cop.

Probably the same reason cops didn't investigate calling histories from the phone companies.

Answer: because the data would further incriminate the initial 2 prime suspects: Mon and Nomsod.

It's as though the RTP are living in a world which pre-dates mobile phone technology. Maybe not such a stretch when you figure RTP couldn't get photocopies made for court sessions, they couldn't get DNA data written down in professional way. They couldn't find a way to keep digital photos. They couldn't hold on to the hair or Hannah's clothing or the bottle from the crime scene. They didn't look at crucial CCTV because they deemed it was unimportant. The other 60 hours they looked at, but then destroyed (if not destroyed, where is it?). RTP didn't follow up with fast boat drivers who were too drugged to talk when first found. I better stop now, I'm getting carried away. If I keep listing things which RTP screwed up, it would fill dozens of pages. It's late and I don't want to get carpal tunnel.

[jayjay78]

Ok found another and this is the caption that goes with it

"This is David'd iPhone. According to the police Mr. Win stole it, smashed it and threw it to the jungle behind Mr. Mao Mao's resident.
If you observe this iPhone carefully, it looks like somebody tried to open the screen rather than smashing it. It also looks like somebody put this phone under the water or suffer from water damage."