Evidence from UK's National Crime Agency 'critical' in sentencing Koh Tao killers to death

[Chetzee]

.. so how do you account for the rumour just hours after the deaths that there was an altercation in AC bar- excellent Chetzee, who was the quarrel between?

you miss my point . Why would i b surprised at that ? Are you from up country of something ?

the point being that rumour very often has at its heart a degree of truth , certainly in this case it was enough you get the old bill out of their billet .

[StealthEnergiser]

Is it actually established translators were threatened? Or is it gossip based on hearsay, gone through some revisions as such is known to do?

The problem as I see with all the conspiracy theories, why I'm not convinced in the latest one at least, is a regular reliance on repeating messages so as to turn them into facts- such as above.

I'm almost convinced there is a small group of gossip mongers, a gaggle I've seen written, based on Samui who have never had their narrative of events challenged in a public manner. They control local press, issue FB meme based on errors, attempt various FB bannings, issue personal attacks on forums, and otherwise attempt censor any kind of discourse that counters their scripts.

While I was of the general impression Nom Sod and clan may well have been guilty as hell, and the B-2 not involved, just reading the seriously deficient arguments here has me wondering. Did the B-2 ( or just the one) partake into the initial rape party? Did he actually drag his friend into the accusation in order to give himself an alibi, which backfired a bit, especially for the friend?

Meanwhile a Thai translator being used by Sky News in court has said she's been "warned off" helping journalists by the Thai "Mafia".

http://news.sky.com/story/1515906/backpacker-murder-dna-setback-for-defence

"Meanwhile a Thai translator being used by Sky News in court has said she's been "warned off" helping journalists by the Thai "Mafia". "

This is a unsubstantiated allegation, no more than tittle-tattle

I suggest you carefully read the link on post 874

[greenchair]

.. so how do you account for the rumour just hours after the deaths that there was an altercation in AC bar- excellent Chetzee, who was the quarrel between?

According to the anonymous speil, that altercation happened with Muang Muang. Which apparently there are 2 Muang Muangs.

The Muang Muang that went back to the beach with Wei Phyo and 1 of the three playing guitar at the beach.

The other Muang Muang talked about in anonymous speil apparently fled the island the day after the murders.

Every corner we turn, those burmese just keep popping up.

[jayjay78]

Clearly Thai thugs committed the crimes. That the court decided otherwise is protecting them. And as the appeal judges are based in Surat thani they will continue to support their fellow samui judges. Probably the only court that could be independent is Chiang Mai

Clearly they are Burmese that committed the crime and are in jail, if it is the court is protecting them how comes all the truthers are now attacking the defense team & Andy Hall ?

Robert Holmes said at the end of the trial the defense did not do enough to discredit the dna evidence, and if found guilty this would be why,

But if it is so clear that Thais committed the crime maybe you would like to share the evidence you have ?

Its never long before we have to wait for one of your posts bringing up the defense is it.

Well just to keep you up to date, people, even adults sometimes disagree, why hell there can even be differences of opinion between experts in the same subject matter. The difference between mature intelligent adults and juvenile undeveloped humans is that they can usually overcome their difficulties and continue to work together with an outcome that can be even more positive.

Robert Holmes & Ian Yarwood had some disagreements with Andy and the Thai defense lawyers although both concede that it was always the Thai defense lawyers call and Andy never had a say in their decisions, even though Andy wanted Jane called it was the Thai lawyers who disagreed with that.

Just to ram the point home to you. Here is a photo of Robert Holmes and the defense team along with Andy Hall working together with Andy doing the translations into Thai for the lawyers. This was on the 5th Feb

And on the 8th Feb Ian Yarwood said this "everyone now seems to be in agreement and communication has improved"

Looks like a team in action for the appeal.

You can if you wish bookmark this post before you blurb out more misinformation about the defense team at each others throats.

As a back up I'll also bookmark it so I can give you the link if you runaway with yourself again.

Edited February 25, 2016 by jayjay78

[jayjay78]

.. so how do you account for the rumour just hours after the deaths that there was an altercation in AC bar- excellent Chetzee, who was the quarrel between?

Police new but failed to check:

The defence asked the colonel about a rumour that a third man pictured in CCTV on a motorbike with the two accused was a man called Muang Muang.

The man is rumoured to have had a row with the Headman’s son in a bar earlier that night, and Mr Miller was said to have intervened.

Colonel Chiewpreecha answered: ‘I have heard the rumour and I believe the Koh Tao police followed it up.’

But he added that as it was a rumour, it had not been investigated further, and the police had lost contact with the third man.

They also failed to check the alleged speedboat leaving at dawn

When Colonel Chiewpreecha was asked about a small boat that was seen leaving the island before dawn, about the time the bodies were discovered, he admitted he knew nothing about it and there had been no investigation.

Edited February 25, 2016 by jayjay78

[StealthEnergiser]

So the defence should have said so you have evidence that she left the bar?

There lies the problem, there were many things the defense could have defended. They chose to go on about gaet analysis and the psychology of a killer .

What will you have to say greenchair when the defence win the appeal because it will happen.

[AleG]

Is it actually established translators were threatened? Or is it gossip based on hearsay, gone through some revisions as such is known to do?

The problem as I see with all the conspiracy theories, why I'm not convinced in the latest one at least, is a regular reliance on repeating messages so as to turn them into facts- such as above.

I'm almost convinced there is a small group of gossip mongers, a gaggle I've seen written, based on Samui who have never had their narrative of events challenged in a public manner. They control local press, issue FB meme based on errors, attempt various FB bannings, issue personal attacks on forums, and otherwise attempt censor any kind of discourse that counters their scripts.

While I was of the general impression Nom Sod and clan may well have been guilty as hell, and the B-2 not involved, just reading the seriously deficient arguments here has me wondering. Did the B-2 ( or just the one) partake into the initial rape party? Did he actually drag his friend into the accusation in order to give himself an alibi, which backfired a bit, especially for the friend?

It's quite possible that the translator was scared into leaving the assignment, but since then I've seen and heard enough to make me very suspicious of that episode.

Some "activists" have made it very clear that their game was to control the flow of information to the public; also have demonstrated, how should I put it, very questionable morals; I have no problem at all imagine one of those people picking up a phone and making that threat to affect the international reports at the time the prosecution was presenting their case.

As for Nomsod, I tried to find out how did he ended up being a suspect and as far as I was able to piece things together it was as a result of him going into the CSI-LA page and arguing against the "internet sleuths", they didn't like it and decided that his beheaviour was suspicious and that he looked like the man on the CCTV footage the police had released. I have no doubt that some "concerned citizen" or two then made a call to tip off the police.

The similarities to what goes on in here may not have gone unnoticed to you, anyone that doesn't buy the Narrative is immediately suspected of being a shill, conspiring in the supposed cover up, connected to the mafia or what not.

[Lancashireman]

Clearly Thai thugs committed the crimes. That the court decided otherwise is protecting them. And as the appeal judges are based in Surat thani they will continue to support their fellow samui judges. Probably the only court that could be independent is Chiang Mai

Clearly they are Burmese that committed the crime and are in jail, if it is the court is protecting them how comes all the truthers are now attacking the defense team & Andy Hall ?

Robert Holmes said at the end of the trial the defense did not do enough to discredit the dna evidence, and if found guilty this would be why,

But if it is so clear that Thais committed the crime maybe you would like to share the evidence you have ?

At risk of repeating my 'take'. I believe the young men are associated with this crime.

It's a nightmare scenario for them; island, sea, sun, beer, party, tourists, girls and boys, money, drugs, party, testosterone, playing away, freedom, chance, dilemma, infatuation, the chase, the prize...then the 'equal and opposition reaction'.

The realisation it had gone totally wrong, realisation that a crime had been committed...

Thereafter, local influence comes to bear...

But I am absolutely convinced one or both were involved in this crime.

The court holds the 'card' as we speak...not you or I.

Regards all

[NCFC]

Is it actually established translators were threatened? Or is it gossip based on hearsay, gone through some revisions as such is known to do?

The problem as I see with all the conspiracy theories, why I'm not convinced in the latest one at least, is a regular reliance on repeating messages so as to turn them into facts- such as above.

I'm almost convinced there is a small group of gossip mongers, a gaggle I've seen written, based on Samui who have never had their narrative of events challenged in a public manner. They control local press, issue FB meme based on errors, attempt various FB bannings, issue personal attacks on forums, and otherwise attempt censor any kind of discourse that counters their scripts.

While I was of the general impression Nom Sod and clan may well have been guilty as hell, and the B-2 not involved, just reading the seriously deficient arguments here has me wondering. Did the B-2 ( or just the one) partake into the initial rape party? Did he actually drag his friend into the accusation in order to give himself an alibi, which backfired a bit, especially for the friend?

Meanwhile a Thai translator being used by Sky News in court has said she's been "warned off" helping journalists by the Thai "Mafia".

http://news.sky.com/story/1515906/backpacker-murder-dna-setback-for-defence

Exactly, no name, no nothing, no quotes from local press, just crap reporting.

This is a direct named quote however and maybe should be listened to?

Ms Witheridge's family said: "Speculation, rumour and theory have been incredibly hurtful to our family and Hannah's friends, making an already unthinkable time harder to bear.

The whole investigation has been riddled with reporting with no names attached. Come to your own conclusions as to why.

Friends say Hannah and David left bar between 3 and 4am.

The person who phoned police when bodies discovered was not named and name not logged.

Person who took last known photo of Hannah and David declined to be named.

Person who was rumoured to have had argument with Hannah and David not named.

People who posted unofficial crime scene photos to web not named.

Westerners seen walking around with Hannah and David shortly before their deaths not named.

Fat guy and Asian woman seen at 1.26 and 1.56 in spitting distance of running man on CCTV not named.

Almost everyone who spoke to reporters in regards to a mafia presence on Koh Tao not named.

Number 9 man who shook hands with David who police no doubt tracked down not named.

Foreign woman seen running at the time of crimes who police wanted to track down not named.

Close aide (wanted man) of village headman who police said was likely to know something about the murders who fled to Bangkok not named as at 24.9.14.

Person or people who changed the crime scene and picked up all the items of clothing from the sand and placed them on the rock not named.

Person or people who stole the black trousers from the crime scene not named. Ditto wine bottle.

12 original suspects most of whom were not named.

3 westerners seen playing guitar and singing on beach before crime not named.

Local expat business people living on the island who said blame often fell to Burmese community asked not to be named.

Officials who 'lost' Hannah's clothing following Thai autopsy not named.

Police officials who taxi driver reported to have offered him a bribe not named.

Two French girls who McAnna said gave statements to police saying they heard screaming at time of crime not named.

Anyone and everyone who were the last to see Hannah and David alive not named.

Everyone who was reported to have been at the beach party with Hannah and David before their deaths not named. That's every single person!

People who claimed Nomsod had scratches and bruises on his body when seen in Bangkok following the murders not named.

Friends/teachers who could vouch for Nomsod's presence in Bangkok when the crimes were committed not named.

"I have witnesses - university friends and lecturers who saw me at the apartment where I reside. They include the apartment residents. They are all ready to testify to help me. Also there is surveillance camera footage showing me staying at the university and the apartment," he added. - See more at: http://news.asiaone.com/news/crime/thai-pm-vows-crackdown-koh-tao-vices#sthash.aGNUOLCZ.dpuf

http://news.asiaone.com/news/crime/thai-pm-vows-crackdown-koh-tao-vices

Close friend of Chris Ware who told the Mirror the idea Chris Ware could kill David and a girl was incomprehensible asked not to be named.

Running man still not named having previously been named as Mon (by himself).

People who Laura Witheridge claimed made threats to her and her family not named.

This is exactly the same as in the west. Criminal investigations are not carried out in the media. In most cases there is a blanket ban on reporting until trial time except when police ask the public for help in identifying or locating a suspect. You,on the other hand, seem to want the whole investigation to be explained to you while it is an ongoing process. .

This isnt entertainment. But it is being treated as such. Even now posters drag up old snippets of media reports of the investigation and drool over them in the minutest, mostvsalacious detail. The cry is "oh but I dont want to see those two boys die!' as though anything here makes a difference to the case.

The only thing that makes a difference is facts. And very few people are in possession of the facts. Instead we have Thai police who cant help themselves but to blab to the press in order to show off their importance even though their comments are often contradictory and short on fact. Yet that doesnt seem to stop a bunch posters from regurgitating those comments often enough until they become a fact in their minds.

Very early on in this investigation the police put up a poster on the beach appealling for information about the crime from the public. A very normal procedure for police forces around the world, giving a phone number for the public to contact the police anonymously. But this particular poster had four different phone numbers for the public to call each under the control of a different police general. It was clear to me from that moment on that there would not be a single, cohesive investigation into the murders but the typical Thai squabble for face amongst the police officers leading the investigations. And thatvis what we saw. Different police with different "facts" . senior officers admitting in court that they had no idea of what was going on in the investigations, missing evidence, failure to call witnesses.

But equally ridiculous has been the armchair investigators who have sucked up all this nonsence and regurgitated it in the social media over the past almost eighteen months.

Some armchair sleuths in the past few pages are even saying that the court proceedings should be ignored because it os based on a falsehood at odds with what the media has published. Well I'm not sure whether that will be much comfort to the two convicts as they await their appeals.

Despite the bungling and ineptitude of the Thai police, calling for police to release their information about an.ongoing investigation so that it can be dissected in the social media is disrespectful to everyone in the judicial system, including the accused. There is a strong argument that social media comment has actually hindered the defence of the B2. But never mind, hey, it's been damn entertaining for the armchair enthusiasts.

[AleG]

Clearly Thai thugs committed the crimes. That the court decided otherwise is protecting them. And as the appeal judges are based in Surat thani they will continue to support their fellow samui judges. Probably the only court that could be independent is Chiang Mai

Yeah right, the court has it in the two Burmese and, that's why they granted them an appeal extension twice.

[greenchair]

So the defence should have said so you have evidence that she left the bar?

There lies the problem, there were many things the defense could have defended. They chose to go on about gaet analysis and the psychology of a killer .

What will you have to say greenchair when the defence win the appeal because it will happen.

At best they might get the death penalty overturned to life.

If you want to call that a win then well done.

[AleG]

This is exactly the same as in the west. Criminal investigations are not carried out in the media. In most cases there is a blanket ban on reporting until trial time except when police ask the public for help in identifying or locating a suspect. You,on the other hand, seem to want the whole investigation to be explained to you while it is an ongoing process. .

This isnt entertainment. But it is being treated as such. Even now posters drag up old snippets of media reports of the investigation and drool over them in the minutest, mostvsalacious detail. The cry is "oh but I dont want to see those two boys die!' as though anything here makes a difference to the case.

The only thing that makes a difference is facts. And very few people are in possession of the facts. Instead we have Thai police who cant help themselves but to blab to the press in order to show off their importance even though their comments are often contradictory and short on fact. Yet that doesnt seem to stop a bunch posters from regurgitating those comments often enough until they become a fact in their minds.

Very early on in this investigation the police put up a poster on the beach appealling for information about the crime from the public. A very normal procedure for police forces around the world, giving a phone number for the public to contact the police anonymously. But this particular poster had four different phone numbers for the public to call each under the control of a different police general. It was clear to me from that moment on that there would not be a single, cohesive investigation into the murders but the typical Thai squabble for face amongst the police officers leading the investigations. And thatvis what we saw. Different police with different "facts" . senior officers admitting in court that they had no idea of what was going on in the investigations, missing evidence, failure to call witnesses.

But equally ridiculous has been the armchair investigators who have sucked up all this nonsence and regurgitated it in the social media over the past almost eighteen months.

Some armchair sleuths in the past few pages are even saying that the court proceedings should be ignored because it os based on a falsehood at odds with what the media has published. Well I'm not sure whether that will be much comfort to the two convicts as they await their appeals.

Despite the bungling and ineptitude of the Thai police, calling for police to release their information about an.ongoing investigation so that it can be dissected in the social media is disrespectful to everyone in the judicial system, including the accused. There is a strong argument that social media comment has actually hindered the defence of the B2. But never mind, hey, it's been damn entertaining for the armchair enthusiasts.

That is all exactly right, I find it appalling that some people demand the personal details and information of individuals for no other purpose than to attempt to weave them into their convoluted narratives... and that the police not releasing such information is indicative of, at best lack of professionalism or at worst indicative of a cover up. Heads I win, tails you lose kind of situation.

Yes, the police made plenty of blunders, specially in their management of information, I don't know who is more at fault here, the police jumping the gun and running to the press to release the latest unverified juicy development or the press (and public) that demanded them not now but ye; ultimately the police, I suppose. They should have stuck with the "No comments on an ongoing investigation"... except that then they'd be accused of hiding things, so again that same trick with the coin.

Having said that, it baffles me that people on one hand recognize (and harp on it to no end) the haphazard and often contradictory course of the investigation (and its reporting) and then when it comes the time to prop up their pet theories, they go back into that mess to fish out a quote here or there that says what they want to hear. "The police said this, so that is that" they'd argue, and ignore any subsequent events and developments that show that they were in fact wrong, misquoted or taken out of context.

[Khun Han]

This is exactly the same as in the west. Criminal investigations are not carried out in the media. In most cases there is a blanket ban on reporting until trial time except when police ask the public for help in identifying or locating a suspect. You,on the other hand, seem to want the whole investigation to be explained to you while it is an ongoing process. .

This isnt entertainment. But it is being treated as such. Even now posters drag up old snippets of media reports of the investigation and drool over them in the minutest, mostvsalacious detail. The cry is "oh but I dont want to see those two boys die!' as though anything here makes a difference to the case.

The only thing that makes a difference is facts. And very few people are in possession of the facts. Instead we have Thai police who cant help themselves but to blab to the press in order to show off their importance even though their comments are often contradictory and short on fact. Yet that doesnt seem to stop a bunch posters from regurgitating those comments often enough until they become a fact in their minds.

Very early on in this investigation the police put up a poster on the beach appealling for information about the crime from the public. A very normal procedure for police forces around the world, giving a phone number for the public to contact the police anonymously. But this particular poster had four different phone numbers for the public to call each under the control of a different police general. It was clear to me from that moment on that there would not be a single, cohesive investigation into the murders but the typical Thai squabble for face amongst the police officers leading the investigations. And thatvis what we saw. Different police with different "facts" . senior officers admitting in court that they had no idea of what was going on in the investigations, missing evidence, failure to call witnesses.

But equally ridiculous has been the armchair investigators who have sucked up all this nonsence and regurgitated it in the social media over the past almost eighteen months.

Some armchair sleuths in the past few pages are even saying that the court proceedings should be ignored because it os based on a falsehood at odds with what the media has published. Well I'm not sure whether that will be much comfort to the two convicts as they await their appeals.

Despite the bungling and ineptitude of the Thai police, calling for police to release their information about an.ongoing investigation so that it can be dissected in the social media is disrespectful to everyone in the judicial system, including the accused. There is a strong argument that social media comment has actually hindered the defence of the B2. But never mind, hey, it's been damn entertaining for the armchair enthusiasts.

Social media have straightened the RTP out with facts on more than one occasion during this case. Hannah's phone being 'found' behind the Burmese lodgings being an obvious and glaring example. The RTP don't like it of course, and posters on here of a certain ilk don't like it either.

[KunMatt]

So the defence should have said so you have evidence that she left the bar?

There lies the problem, there were many things the defense could have defended. They chose to go on about gaet analysis and the psychology of a killer .

What will you have to say greenchair when the defence win the appeal because it will happen.

I'm gonna guess that she will flip-flop again and try to sell some t-shirts based on the B2 to raise some money. Unless the Koh Tao cheerleading squad up their package for her and her friend, obviously.

[smedly]

DNA is physical evidence, it seems a few people don't understand this

Honestly it is just like testing a weapon for ballistics - it is tested, you produce results and connect the weapon to the crime . you must have the actual weapon - physical evidence, you cannot claim that there is a match and then say you lost the gun, DNA is actually no different - you cannot claim you have a match and then say you no longer have the original sample, that would be like saying - we have a match to the weapon but no longer have it - so here is a photo....honest

[boomerangutang]

Nomsod is shown in the 3 Running Man videos. Nomsod is probably shown in parts of the 59 hours of videos that RTP won't show - and that's not counting the hours of CCTV which Mon refused to hand over to RTP. ....and not counting the CCTV which RTP deemed "too unimportant to even look at" , which may have shown boats leaving the island in the hour after the crime. And there's Maung Maung, a Burmese DJ at AC bar who is said to have claimed to have seen NS in one of the bars that Sunday night. No one is surprises that MM the DJ split to Burma, never to be heard from. Of course, prosecution didn't want the other MM (formerly of the B3) testifying. He also split to Burma, to be incognito. And RTP/prosecution didn't want anything from Sean - who similarly was scooted out of Thailand a.s.a.p. and not heard from again. Those are 3 potential witnesses which Thai authorities (working hand in hand with the Headman's people) don't want to hear a peep from. There are probably others. Even Thai cops admitted that some islanders are too afraid to speak the truth of what they heard/saw.

As for airport: Can we see CCTV of passengers entering or leaving that Monday morning flight to Bkk from Chumpon? Can we see the passenger manifest? Of course not. It's all part of the bungled cover-up which goes all the way up to the self-appointed PM. We, the general public seeking truth & justice will also never see/hear about cell phone histories from that night and the next day. Similarly, we will never see/hear about any money transactions between the Headman's people (including Mon, Headman's wife, NS, NS's lawyer) which likely involved top brass cops. RTP aren't going to incriminate themselves, are they? ha ha ha, they're laughing all the way to the bank. While Nomsod can dress in flimsy white cotton smock with a gold crown, showing the world what a devout lovely Buddhist boy he is.

Note: Bribing is common in Thailand. It's more often done indirectly, rather than from a principle player to the other principle player. It's more common for money or valuables to be transferred clandestinely via a family member or trusted acquaintance. Thaksin transferred money to his chauffeur and maid. Later, he had agents try to transfer money to a judge. A lawyer is often a good conduit, because even if he's caught carrying something, he can claim 'lawyer/client confidentiality.' On the day after the OJ murders in L.A., OJ's lawyer went in alone to visit OJ at his mansion, then came out carrying a suitcase. Cops couldn't stop or search the lawyer, who was grinning the whole time the press cameras were on him. Go figure.

Again this is you speculating as always, the running man video is not evidence good enough to suggest it is Nomsod, Mon or anyone else . Nomsod has not been seen on the island . Mon and B2 we can be sure about were there that night.

Yes, I'm speculating, though much of that speculation is based on facts and knowledge of human nature. It's also based on knowledge/experience of a third of a century visiting Thailand, and nearly 20 yrs residing here full-time. RTP investigators should also be speculating, as part of their job description. From such speculations, they should then act to see if evidence backs up possible scenarios. They did that, BUT ONLY IN RELATION TO TRYING TO NAIL BURMESE MIGRANTS. If you look at what was investigated by RTP, you'll see it all points to issues regarding the migrants. NONE OF THE INVESTIGATION, from October 2014 onwards, looks at anything related to Mon, Nomsod or their tough-guy island buddies. ZERO. ....both of whom were THE PRIME SUSPECTS early in the investigation. The investigative team declared, in Sept. 2014 (days after the crime) that they knew who did the crime and would arrest those people soon.

Yet, pressure from BKK and TAT ("oh, this is sooooo bad for tourism") compelled top brass to excuse Nomsod on the flimsiest pseudo alibi imaginable, after the punk had been hiding from police for a week.

There is at least one eyewitness who said he saw NS on the island that night (MM the DJ). And try as you might to discount the 3 'Running Man' videos, that is Nomsod shown. Not just I and tens of thousands of other observers can see that, but also the entire RTP team under Panya saw it also. That's why Panya was pulled from heading the investigation, and that's why he has not been heard from since. ....not even called as a witness. Sean could probably attest to NS being on the island that night, but Sean doesn't want to get knocked off, and I can't blame him for thoughts of self-preservation. I can almost hear Crab saying "how could mafia-types knock off Sean when he's far away in Italy, ha ha ha." Believe it or not, Crab, millionaire mafia-types can have a long reach.

Both Burmese Maung Maungs plus Sean were allowed (encouraged?) to leave Thailand never to be heard from re; the trial. One of the MM's (formerly B3) was seen in several CCTV footages that night and early morning. Sean almost got killed by Mon and his cop buddy, because Sean 'knew too much.' None of those people or incidents were mentioned by prosecution. Neither was the couple (farang man, Asian woman) in Running Man CCTV. Any one of those folks would have been considered possible eyewitness in any half-assed prosecution of a crime. Because none were mentioned or called to testify speaks volumes to prove the blatant cover-up by Thai authorities.

The evidence was presented to the court, the prosecution and defence presented their case and provide counter arguments and they were found guilty.

They had the power of the judicial process to protect their rights and still have while the appeal is in process.

Now, you may not agree or like the verdict, but that's the facts.

This is a discussion. It's a mix of opinions and facts and speculation. We don't all have to agree with a subjective Thai court's decision. At the OJ trial, OJ wasn't proved guilty according to the subjective jury. Does that mean he wasn't guilty of the crime?

[boomerangutang]

Is it actually established translators were threatened? Or is it gossip based on hearsay, gone through some revisions as such is known to do?

The problem as I see with all the conspiracy theories, why I'm not convinced in the latest one at least, is a regular reliance on repeating messages so as to turn them into facts- such as above.

I'm almost convinced there is a small group of gossip mongers, a gaggle I've seen written, based on Samui who have never had their narrative of events challenged in a public manner. They control local press, issue FB meme based on errors, attempt various FB bannings, issue personal attacks on forums, and otherwise attempt censor any kind of discourse that counters their scripts.

While I was of the general impression Nom Sod and clan may well have been guilty as hell, and the B-2 not involved, just reading the seriously deficient arguments here has me wondering. Did the B-2 ( or just the one) partake into the initial rape party? Did he actually drag his friend into the accusation in order to give himself an alibi, which backfired a bit, especially for the friend?

It's quite possible that the translator was scared into leaving the assignment, but since then I've seen and heard enough to make me very suspicious of that episode.

Some "activists" have made it very clear that their game was to control the flow of information to the public; also have demonstrated, how should I put it, very questionable morals; I have no problem at all imagine one of those people picking up a phone and making that threat to affect the international reports at the time the prosecution was presenting their case.

As for Nomsod, I tried to find out how did he ended up being a suspect and as far as I was able to piece things together it was as a result of him going into the CSI-LA page and arguing against the "internet sleuths", they didn't like it and decided that his beheaviour was suspicious and that he looked like the man on the CCTV footage the police had released. I have no doubt that some "concerned citizen" or two then made a call to tip off the police.

The similarities to what goes on in here may not have gone unnoticed to you, anyone that doesn't buy the Narrative is immediately suspected of being a shill, conspiring in the supposed cover up, connected to the mafia or what not.

That's silly, at best. Here's the reason Nomsod's name kept popping up as being involved in the crime: He was likely involved in the crime. From the first hour the bodies were found, rumors were swirling around about NS's involvement. Rumors are often based on truth. Rumors are often started by locals who are closest to the crime scene. Right after 9-11, there were rumors of Islamist terrorists being involved. That turned out to be true. Right after the two bodies were found murdered in L.A. (including OJ's ex-wife), rumors of OJ's involvement spread like wildfire.

Re; the KT murders, what many of us have been doing for the past 17 months, is trying to find clues as to who really did the crimes. The vast majority of those who have been closely observing all the info related to the crime, have concluded steadfastly that the B2 are scapegoats, and the actual vicious murderers are you know who. Just as steadfastly, Thai officials have studiously avoided mentioning anyone or anything which would indicate who really did the crimes.

[seedy]

Troll / Flaming post removed

[JLCrab]

<snip> I can almost hear Crab saying "how could mafia-types knock off Sean when he's far away in Italy, ha ha ha." Believe it or not, Crab, millionaire mafia-types can have a long reach.

<snip2>

Yes -- even to Chiang Rai if they really cared which they seem to not. So far nobody connected to the crime has been knocked off but, if the B2 were sitting on anything which would decisively work against the mafia-types interests, they most likely would be tops on the knock-off list.

Edited February 26, 2016 by JLCrab

[IslandLover]

catsanddogs, on 25 Feb 2016 - 09:59, said:

Moonsterk, on 25 Feb 2016 - 04:50, said:

jayjay78, on 25 Feb 2016 - 04:42, said:

Meanwhile a Thai translator being used by Sky News in court has said she's been "warned off" helping journalists by the Thai "Mafia".

http://news.sky.com/story/1515906/backpacker-murder-dna-setback-for-defence

Exactly, no name, no nothing, no quotes from local press, just crap reporting.

This is a direct named quote however and maybe should be listened to?

Ms Witheridge's family said: "Speculation, rumour and theory have been incredibly hurtful to our family and Hannah's friends, making an already unthinkable time harder to bear.

The whole investigation has been riddled with reporting with no names attached. Come to your own conclusions as to why.

Friends say Hannah and David left bar between 3 and 4am.

The person who phoned police when bodies discovered was not named and name not logged.

Person who took last known photo of Hannah and David declined to be named.

Person who was rumoured to have had argument with Hannah and David not named.

People who posted unofficial crime scene photos to web not named.

Westerners seen walking around with Hannah and David shortly before their deaths not named.

Fat guy and Asian woman seen at 1.26 and 1.56 in spitting distance of running man on CCTV not named.

Almost everyone who spoke to reporters in regards to a mafia presence on Koh Tao not named.

Number 9 man who shook hands with David who police no doubt tracked down not named.

Foreign woman seen running at the time of crimes who police wanted to track down not named.

Close aide (wanted man) of village headman who police said was likely to know something about the murders who fled to Bangkok not named as at 24.9.14.

Person or people who changed the crime scene and picked up all the items of clothing from the sand and placed them on the rock not named.

Person or people who stole the black trousers from the crime scene not named. Ditto wine bottle.

12 original suspects most of whom were not named.

3 westerners seen playing guitar and singing on beach before crime not named.

Local expat business people living on the island who said blame often fell to Burmese community asked not to be named.

Officials who 'lost' Hannah's clothing following Thai autopsy not named.

Police officials who taxi driver reported to have offered him a bribe not named.

Two French girls who McAnna said gave statements to police saying they heard screaming at time of crime not named.

Anyone and everyone who were the last to see Hannah and David alive not named.

Everyone who was reported to have been at the beach party with Hannah and David before their deaths not named. That's every single person!

People who claimed Nomsod had scratches and bruises on his body when seen in Bangkok following the murders not named.

Friends/teachers who could vouch for Nomsod's presence in Bangkok when the crimes were committed not named.

"I have witnesses - university friends and lecturers who saw me at the apartment where I reside. They include the apartment residents. They are all ready to testify to help me. Also there is surveillance camera footage showing me staying at the university and the apartment," he added. - See more at: http://news.asiaone.com/news/crime/thai-pm-vows-crackdown-koh-tao-vices#sthash.aGNUOLCZ.dpuf

http://news.asiaone.com/news/crime/thai-pm-vows-crackdown-koh-tao-vices

Close friend of Chris Ware who told the Mirror the idea Chris Ware could kill David and a girl was incomprehensible asked not to be named.

Running man still not named having previously been named as Mon (by himself).

People who Laura Witheridge claimed made threats to her and her family not named.

Excellent post, catsanddogs.

[IslandLover]

JLCrab, on 25 Feb 2016 - 13:50, said:

Mr. Samuels wrote on 9 JULY 2015 that his translator had been warned off by the Mafia and on 10 JULY 2015 he was submitting dispatches from the Samui Courtroom on his Twitter account.

He is also recorded on video outside the courtroom saying that his translator had been warned off. He described those threatening his female translator as "mafia".

[JLCrab]

JLCrab, on 25 Feb 2016 - 13:50, said:

Mr. Samuels wrote on 9 JULY 2015 that his translator had been warned off by the Mafia and on 10 JULY 2015 he was submitting dispatches from the Samui Courtroom on his Twitter account.

He is also recorded on video outside the courtroom saying that his translator had been warned off. He described those threatening his female translator as "mafia".

So on 9 JULY 2015 he wrote and said on video that his translation had been scared off by mafia types and on July 10 he was able to submit his own Twitter dispatches from the courtroom so he apparently found another translator.

[IslandLover]

bannork, on 25 Feb 2016 - 14:17, said:

.. so how do you account for the rumour just hours after the deaths that there was an altercation in AC bar- excellent Chetzee, who was the quarrel between?

The "rumour" is that Mon was involved.

[JLCrab]

bannork, on 25 Feb 2016 - 14:17, said:

.. so how do you account for the rumour just hours after the deaths that there was an altercation in AC bar- excellent Chetzee, who was the quarrel between?

The "rumour" is that Mon was involved.

He lives across the street.

[IslandLover]

@catsanddogs - just one small mistake in your otherwise excellent post. Fat guy and Asian woman were seen in close proximity to the running man at 4:51 and 5:46. It's important we get our facts right on this forum

[IslandLover]

jayjay78, on 25 Feb 2016 - 15:07, said:

bannork, on 25 Feb 2016 - 14:17, said:

.. so how do you account for the rumour just hours after the deaths that there was an altercation in AC bar- excellent Chetzee, who was the quarrel between?

Police new but failed to check:

The defence asked the colonel about a rumour that a third man pictured in CCTV on a motorbike with the two accused was a man called Muang Muang.

The man is rumoured to have had a row with the Headman’s son in a bar earlier that night, and Mr Miller was said to have intervened.

Colonel Chiewpreecha answered: ‘I have heard the rumour and I believe the Koh Tao police followed it up.’

But he added that as it was a rumour, it had not been investigated further, and the police had lost contact with the third man.

They also failed to check the alleged speedboat leaving at dawn

When Colonel Chiewpreecha was asked about a small boat that was seen leaving the island before dawn, about the time the bodies were discovered, he admitted he knew nothing about it and there had been no investigation.

Now that's interesting because it states the argument was between Nomsod (who was not on the island that night, right?) and Maung Maung, the 3rd Burmese who was arrested with Wei Phyo and Zaw Lin. Yet Maung Maung (the 3rd Burmese) was working at the AC2 bar that night and Maung Maung (the Burmese DJ) was working at the AC bar.

[Moonsterk]

since you bring it up - it seems that you didn't read what Hannah's sister said recently about the case, go have a look

Laura was subjected to that incredibly misleading video posted by a Anonymous conspiracy theory central FB page.

you couldn't make it up - oh wait you just did lol

She has a mind and a voice, her opinion was mostly based on how she was treated in Thailand - read it again

I'm not arguing Laura Witheridge has no right to an opinion which is based on whatever experiences she has had- and to make the claim I am is a straw man.

She posted the video that was chock full of supposition and hysteria regarding 3 of 5 deaths it reported on , so I think it is fair to assume she was influenced by it enough to want to spread it around. She probably is getting an earful from the Samui Gaggle, too.

[IslandLover]

JLCrab, on 26 Feb 2016 - 02:22, said:

IslandLover, on 26 Feb 2016 - 02:15, said:

bannork, on 25 Feb 2016 - 14:17, said:bannork, on 25 Feb 2016 - 14:17, said:

.. so how do you account for the rumour just hours after the deaths that there was an altercation in AC bar- excellent Chetzee, who was the quarrel between?

The "rumour" is that Mon was involved.

He lives across the street.

He manages the AC bar.

[IslandLover]

JLCrab, on 26 Feb 2016 - 02:11, said:

IslandLover, on 26 Feb 2016 - 01:58, said:

JLCrab, on 25 Feb 2016 - 13:50, said:JLCrab, on 25 Feb 2016 - 13:50, said:

Mr. Samuels wrote on 9 JULY 2015 that his translator had been warned off by the Mafia and on 10 JULY 2015 he was submitting dispatches from the Samui Courtroom on his Twitter account.

He is also recorded on video outside the courtroom saying that his translator had been warned off. He described those threatening his female translator as "mafia".

So on 9 JULY 2015 he wrote and said on video that his translation had been scared off by mafia types and on July 10 he was able to submit his own Twitter dispatches from the courtroom so he apparently found another translator.

I have no idea whether he found another translator or not but that does not alter the fact that one of his translators was warned off.

[IslandLover]

JLCrab, on 26 Feb 2016 - 01:11, said:

boomerangutang, on 25 Feb 2016 - 23:32, said:

balo, on 25 Feb 2016 - 12:26, said:

boomerangutang, on 25 Feb 2016 - 04:55, said:

<snip> I can almost hear Crab saying "how could mafia-types knock off Sean when he's far away in Italy, ha ha ha." Believe it or not, Crab, millionaire mafia-types can have a long reach.

<snip2>

Yes -- even to Chiang Rai if they really cared which they seem to not. So far nobody connected to the crime has been knocked off but, if the B2 were sitting on anything which would decisively work against the mafia-types interests, they most likely would be tops on the knock-off list.

Allegedly two people connected to the crime have been knocked off, and possibly a third. This information comes from a Koh Tao resident.