EU reform draft to avoid Brexit

[webfact]

EU reform draft to avoid Brexit
Produced by Beatriz Beiras

BRUSSELS: -- Britain’s place in the EU has always been the uncomfortable seated elephant in the room for the country’s Conservative party so David Cameron’s decision to deal with the issue once and for all has long been awaited.

After short negotiations with the European Council president Donald Tusk, Cameron succeeded in having the majority of his reforms written up in the draft text to avoid a “Brexit.”

Migration

The most controversial proposal would see European workers deprived of extra welfare benefits for four years. In addition they wouldn’t be allowed to claim family allowance payments if their children are not in the country.
However, the extraordinary measure, known as the “emergency brake” rips through one of the EU’s founding principles of free circulation.

National Sovereignty

Another concession concerns Britain’s sovereignty. Tusk has suggested a “red card” penalty system which would allow European legislation to be blocked if a majority of member state parliament fail to approve the measure.

The EU would also have to recognise that Britain has no committement towards a wider, European political integration as its been stated in European treaties.

However, it’s thought extremely unlikely that any treaty will be modified to accomodate the wishes of London as the ratification process may not win popular support amid a wave of mounting euroscepticism.

Euro zone

As Britain is one of two member states to not use the euro or have a committement to adopt it at a later date, London also wants guarantees that the single currency will not become the only currency of the EU; and it wants protection for the City to ensure its vital position is never harmed by eurozone decisions.

Tusk’s proposition excludes non-euro members from having a veto on eurozone measures. They wouldn’t be financially responsible for budgetary measures but they would be allowed to consult and join rescue plans in order to maintain stability across the bloc.


-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2016-02-16

[godden]

will not be worth the paper it's written on

[PETERTHEEATER]

What's it all about Alfie?

[Thongkorn]

It does not say anything about the Taxes the British people are being deprived of paying for The NHS and welfare benefits to foreign people who have paid nothing into the sqeam.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Thongkorn

[uksomchai]

Cameron asked the EU for next to nothing and he got even less. The mood here is for an out vote as the total negativity of the remain campaign has simply consisted of scaremongering about what will happen if we leave. They are today now saying that they might even throw out whatever is agreed after the vote so he is basically asking the mug public to TRUST both HIM and the EU which isn't going to go down well at all.

Saying all that there is a serious risk of there being nothing to vote to leave if the immigration and the financial trouble continues unabated !

[Saradoc1972]

I'd have to say I'm, all in favour of that emergency brake, just not only for Great Britain, but especially for Germany.

It's not just the UK that had loads of Romanian and Gypsy immigrants on welfare, workfare and in the health system. And obviously on child benefits in excess of what a normal worker can earn down there a month, for each single child that is. So that would need to be indexed.

But apparently the East Europeans won't consent to that solution being applied universally, I wonder how that regulation came into being in the first place. Hard to get rid of now.

[MJP]

Cameron asked the EU for next to nothing and he got even less. The mood here is for an out vote as the total negativity of the remain campaign has simply consisted of scaremongering about what will happen if we leave. They are today now saying that they might even throw out whatever is agreed after the vote so he is basically asking the mug public to TRUST both HIM and the EU which isn't going to go down well at all.

Saying all that there is a serious risk of there being nothing to vote to leave if the immigration and the financial trouble continues unabated !

Ruth Lea, Institute of Directors . . .

http://www.cityam.com/234438/ignore-eu-scaremongers-why-britain-would-thrive-post-brexit

[darren84310]

So at the moment they can claim benefits for children that are not even in the UK, not even UK citizens and probably have never set foot in the UK..... That is outrageous and no wonder the likes of Poland and Hungary don't want to give concessions. Their economies are bleeding the likes of Britain dry.... Disgusting!!!

Nothing wrong with them coming to work in Britain but it should be for Britain's benefit and not because they think it's benefits Britain.

[Richard W]

Why is there no mention of the proposal to stop Thai wives of EU residents of Thailand getting free visas to other EU countries? (There are some exceptions).

For the proposal, see the Visas and Migration to Other Countries forum, currently under the misleading title of Surinder Singh.

[Ghostnigel]

Cameron asked the EU for next to nothing and he got even less. The mood here is for an out vote as the total negativity of the remain campaign has simply consisted of scaremongering about what will happen if we leave. They are today now saying that they might even throw out whatever is agreed after the vote so he is basically asking the mug public to TRUST both HIM and the EU which isn't going to go down well at all.

Saying all that there is a serious risk of there being nothing to vote to leave if the immigration and the financial trouble continues unabated !

I was gonna write pretty much what you have said, but you wrote it better, because you said it without swearing....makes me spit feathers, and i don't even live there anymore...

[NeverSure]

The UK needs to focus on getting more manufacturing and more exports regardless of Brexit. It now runs a huge trade deficit as a percentage with the #1 origin being German goods and #2 being China. Brits should get riled up about supporting Germany and China so much, but even that won't help if the UK doesn't ramp up it own manufacturing. Look how Thailand has benefited by manufacturing - even manufacturing for others. Look at how China has done the same but on a much bigger scale.

Manufacturing is the only significant way for a country to "create new wealth" unless it has massive amounts of farmland. Look at various countries in Asia that have small land masses but have long been focused on manufacturing.

There's only so much wealth in the world to pass around and the only way to get more of it is to create new wealth. A crop coming out of the ground is new wealth. Iron being made into steel is new wealth. Oil coming out of the ground is new wealth. Steel, glass and plastic (all new wealth in themselves when made) being molded into a new car is a lot of new wealth.

The UK needs to focus like a laser on obtaining manufacturing because it isn't going to find new farmland and perhaps not new oil. Germany is eating the UK's lunch with manufacturing and sadly, so is China. A bit off topic but look at how Americans are drooling at the promise of bringing jobs back from China and Mexico. The people can see how this has hurt the middle class. Once proud manufacturing cities like Detroit are in ruins.

In or out of the EU, "trading partners" aren't going to matter if the UK has little to trade. When the UK buys so much more than it sells, that's a harbinger of decline. It would take a change of thinking about taxing companies that want to provide jobs, but the UK needs to provide incentives for manufacturers to move in. The new wealth they create is paid mostly out as payroll.

I hope the UK gets out of the EU and starts focusing on the UK and its needs. The members of the EU will still be there wanting trade. Anything else is a bluff.

Cheers.

[sandyf]

EU deal gives UK special status, says PM

• 1 hour ago
• From the sectionUK Politics

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35616768

[billd766]

If Cameron cannot convince the UK electorate it doesn't really matter what concessions he got from the EU if the electorate vote for a Brexit.

The EU will not be able to say that because they don't like the result there should be another referendum.

The scaremongering from both sides will ramp up to new heights in the next few weeks.

If there is a Brexit then IMHO the Tories will hang onto power to the very last day of the national elections but I think if Cameron has any morals he will resign as PM. I do however understand that politicians and morals rarely go together and are an oxymoron.

[Ghostnigel]

The UK needs to focus on getting more manufacturing and more exports regardless of Brexit. It now runs a huge trade deficit as a percentage with the #1 origin being German goods and #2 being China. Brits should get riled up about supporting Germany and China so much, but even that won't help if the UK doesn't ramp up it own manufacturing. Look how Thailand has benefited by manufacturing - even manufacturing for others. Look at how China has done the same but on a much bigger scale.

Manufacturing is the only significant way for a country to "create new wealth" unless it has massive amounts of farmland. Look at various countries in Asia that have small land masses but have long been focused on manufacturing.

There's only so much wealth in the world to pass around and the only way to get more of it is to create new wealth. A crop coming out of the ground is new wealth. Iron being made into steel is new wealth. Oil coming out of the ground is new wealth. Steel, glass and plastic (all new wealth in themselves when made) being molded into a new car is a lot of new wealth.

The UK needs to focus like a laser on obtaining manufacturing because it isn't going to find new farmland and perhaps not new oil. Germany is eating the UK's lunch with manufacturing and sadly, so is China. A bit off topic but look at how Americans are drooling at the promise of bringing jobs back from China and Mexico. The people can see how this has hurt the middle class. Once proud manufacturing cities like Detroit are in ruins.

In or out of the EU, "trading partners" aren't going to matter if the UK has little to trade. When the UK buys so much more than it sells, that's a harbinger of decline. It would take a change of thinking about taxing companies that want to provide jobs, but the UK needs to provide incentives for manufacturers to move in. The new wealth they create is paid mostly out as payroll.

I hope the UK gets out of the EU and starts focusing on the UK and its needs. The members of the EU will still be there wanting trade. Anything else is a bluff.

Cheers.

I want to vote out, just so i don't have to see that smug bitch Mother Merkel acting like the queen of europe, Germany have come to own europe without firing a single bullet, and i cannot see why other countries can let her swat them about like flies. My opinion anyway.

[sirineou]

The UK needs to focus on getting more manufacturing and more exports regardless of Brexit. It now runs a huge trade deficit as a percentage with the #1 origin being German goods and #2 being China. Brits should get riled up about supporting Germany and China so much, but even that won't help if the UK doesn't ramp up it own manufacturing. Look how Thailand has benefited by manufacturing - even manufacturing for others. Look at how China has done the same but on a much bigger scale.

Manufacturing is the only significant way for a country to "create new wealth" unless it has massive amounts of farmland. Look at various countries in Asia that have small land masses but have long been focused on manufacturing.

There's only so much wealth in the world to pass around and the only way to get more of it is to create new wealth. A crop coming out of the ground is new wealth. Iron being made into steel is new wealth. Oil coming out of the ground is new wealth. Steel, glass and plastic (all new wealth in themselves when made) being molded into a new car is a lot of new wealth.

The UK needs to focus like a laser on obtaining manufacturing because it isn't going to find new farmland and perhaps not new oil. Germany is eating the UK's lunch with manufacturing and sadly, so is China. A bit off topic but look at how Americans are drooling at the promise of bringing jobs back from China and Mexico. The people can see how this has hurt the middle class. Once proud manufacturing cities like Detroit are in ruins.

In or out of the EU, "trading partners" aren't going to matter if the UK has little to trade. When the UK buys so much more than it sells, that's a harbinger of decline. It would take a change of thinking about taxing companies that want to provide jobs, but the UK needs to provide incentives for manufacturers to move in. The new wealth they create is paid mostly out as payroll.

I hope the UK gets out of the EU and starts focusing on the UK and its needs. The members of the EU will still be there wanting trade. Anything else is a bluff.

Cheers.

value can be added on intermediate steps other than the actual manufacture

Finance, innovation , distribution, logistics, etc

Cheers

Edited February 20, 2016 by sirineou

[sandyf]

The UK needs to focus on getting more manufacturing and more exports regardless of Brexit. It now runs a huge trade deficit as a percentage with the #1 origin being German goods and #2 being China. Brits should get riled up about supporting Germany and China so much, but even that won't help if the UK doesn't ramp up it own manufacturing. Look how Thailand has benefited by manufacturing - even manufacturing for others. Look at how China has done the same but on a much bigger scale.

Manufacturing is the only significant way for a country to "create new wealth" unless it has massive amounts of farmland. Look at various countries in Asia that have small land masses but have long been focused on manufacturing.

There's only so much wealth in the world to pass around and the only way to get more of it is to create new wealth. A crop coming out of the ground is new wealth. Iron being made into steel is new wealth. Oil coming out of the ground is new wealth. Steel, glass and plastic (all new wealth in themselves when made) being molded into a new car is a lot of new wealth.

The UK needs to focus like a laser on obtaining manufacturing because it isn't going to find new farmland and perhaps not new oil. Germany is eating the UK's lunch with manufacturing and sadly, so is China. A bit off topic but look at how Americans are drooling at the promise of bringing jobs back from China and Mexico. The people can see how this has hurt the middle class. Once proud manufacturing cities like Detroit are in ruins.

In or out of the EU, "trading partners" aren't going to matter if the UK has little to trade. When the UK buys so much more than it sells, that's a harbinger of decline. It would take a change of thinking about taxing companies that want to provide jobs, but the UK needs to provide incentives for manufacturers to move in. The new wealth they create is paid mostly out as payroll.

I hope the UK gets out of the EU and starts focusing on the UK and its needs. The members of the EU will still be there wanting trade. Anything else is a bluff.

Cheers.

I want to vote out, just so i don't have to see that smug bitch Mother Merkel acting like the queen of europe, Germany have come to own europe without firing a single bullet, and i cannot see why other countries can let her swat them about like flies. My opinion anyway.

And a perfectly valid viewpoint, most of the problems have arisen from the vision of an EU empire. Many of the peripheral countries should not have been allowed to join in the first place.

I do not see an exit as the solution, the UK can never regain the status that it once held and may well be perceived as an unreliable partner.

It is up to the EU to try and put the house in order and recent events may well be a wake up call.

[Ghostnigel]

The UK needs to focus on getting more manufacturing and more exports regardless of Brexit. It now runs a huge trade deficit as a percentage with the #1 origin being German goods and #2 being China. Brits should get riled up about supporting Germany and China so much, but even that won't help if the UK doesn't ramp up it own manufacturing. Look how Thailand has benefited by manufacturing - even manufacturing for others. Look at how China has done the same but on a much bigger scale.

Manufacturing is the only significant way for a country to "create new wealth" unless it has massive amounts of farmland. Look at various countries in Asia that have small land masses but have long been focused on manufacturing.

There's only so much wealth in the world to pass around and the only way to get more of it is to create new wealth. A crop coming out of the ground is new wealth. Iron being made into steel is new wealth. Oil coming out of the ground is new wealth. Steel, glass and plastic (all new wealth in themselves when made) being molded into a new car is a lot of new wealth.

The UK needs to focus like a laser on obtaining manufacturing because it isn't going to find new farmland and perhaps not new oil. Germany is eating the UK's lunch with manufacturing and sadly, so is China. A bit off topic but look at how Americans are drooling at the promise of bringing jobs back from China and Mexico. The people can see how this has hurt the middle class. Once proud manufacturing cities like Detroit are in ruins.

In or out of the EU, "trading partners" aren't going to matter if the UK has little to trade. When the UK buys so much more than it sells, that's a harbinger of decline. It would take a change of thinking about taxing companies that want to provide jobs, but the UK needs to provide incentives for manufacturers to move in. The new wealth they create is paid mostly out as payroll.

I hope the UK gets out of the EU and starts focusing on the UK and its needs. The members of the EU will still be there wanting trade. Anything else is a bluff.

Cheers.

I want to vote out, just so i don't have to see that smug bitch Mother Merkel acting like the queen of europe, Germany have come to own europe without firing a single bullet, and i cannot see why other countries can let her swat them about like flies. My opinion anyway.

And a perfectly valid viewpoint, most of the problems have arisen from the vision of an EU empire. Many of the peripheral countries should not have been allowed to join in the first place.

I do not see an exit as the solution, the UK can never regain the status that it once held and may well be perceived as an unreliable partner.

It is up to the EU to try and put the house in order and recent events may well be a wake up call.

These peripheral countries are the real problem. They are not wealthy countries, so the first thing they are gonna do is move to the richer countries, then grab a fistfull of money, and send it back to their own country. I hate that for the simple reason, we work our balls off, and then our government gives it to people who haven't earnt it. Next will be Turkey? Millions more that will up-sticks, and just walk on in with a "give me money" attitude. Bye europe, been nice knowing you.

[sandyf]

And a perfectly valid viewpoint, most of the problems have arisen from the vision of an EU empire. Many of the peripheral countries should not have been allowed to join in the first place.

I do not see an exit as the solution, the UK can never regain the status that it once held and may well be perceived as an unreliable partner.

It is up to the EU to try and put the house in order and recent events may well be a wake up call.

These peripheral countries are the real problem. They are not wealthy countries, so the first thing they are gonna do is move to the richer countries, then grab a fistfull of money, and send it back to their own country. I hate that for the simple reason, we work our balls off, and then our government gives it to people who haven't earnt it. Next will be Turkey? Millions more that will up-sticks, and just walk on in with a "give me money" attitude. Bye europe, been nice knowing you.

I don't disagree but there has to be a solution somewhere. Membership could be tiered, a bit like air miles, you don't get to use the business class lounge unless you have paid into the system.

[allane]

Likely, as a non-European, I am missing something here, but permit me a question and a comment.

Why was the rest of Europe even interested in negotiating with Cameron on this ?

The UK joined the club after being given some concessions to do so. Now, one member of the club is demanding more changes if all of the other members want it (the UK) to continue to grace the clubhouse with its presence. The EEC, as I believe it was still called when the UK joined, used to survive without the UK as a member. I think it could do so again. Anyone who says "If I can't change the rules to be in my favour, I am going to take my ball and go home".should be told "We are sorry you feel that way.Come back if you decide you want to play by the agreed rules."

Edited February 20, 2016 by allane

[Ghostnigel]

And a perfectly valid viewpoint, most of the problems have arisen from the vision of an EU empire. Many of the peripheral countries should not have been allowed to join in the first place.

I do not see an exit as the solution, the UK can never regain the status that it once held and may well be perceived as an unreliable partner.

It is up to the EU to try and put the house in order and recent events may well be a wake up call.

These peripheral countries are the real problem. They are not wealthy countries, so the first thing they are gonna do is move to the richer countries, then grab a fistfull of money, and send it back to their own country. I hate that for the simple reason, we work our balls off, and then our government gives it to people who haven't earnt it. Next will be Turkey? Millions more that will up-sticks, and just walk on in with a "give me money" attitude. Bye europe, been nice knowing you.

I don't disagree but there has to be a solution somewhere. Membership could be tiered, a bit like air miles, you don't get to use the business class lounge unless you have paid into the system.

I did actually come to Thailand business...lol. I needed the extra baggage allowance....

I have just listened to David Cameron's statement, and it looks like he has done a fine job of getting what we/he wanted from the eu, Hope he got it down in writing....lol

I will wait for a full analysis, but I feel it could be worth staying in...we'll see.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Ghostnigel

[sandyf]

Likely, as a non-European, I am missing something here, but permit me a question and a comment.

Why was the rest of Europe even interested in negotiating with Cameron on this ?

The UK joined the club after being given some concessions to do so. Now, one member of the club is demanding more changes if all of the other members want it (the UK) to continue to grace the clubhouse with its presence. The EEC, as I believe it was still called when the UK joined, used to survive without the UK as a member. I think it could do so again. Anyone who says "If I can't change the rules to be in my favour, I am going to take my ball and go home".should be told "We are sorry you feel that way.Come back if you decide you want to play by the agreed rules."

Not quite true. The UK has been formally trading with Europe since 1961(EFTA).

De Gaulle vetoed the first application by the UK to the EEC because of the close ties with the US, but the UK was still involved.

Europe needs the UK as much as the UK needs Europe.

[TommyUK1960]

Many are coming out in favour of Britexit. EU has failed and its time for it to be dissolved.

[sunnyjim5]

​I will suspend judgement until I have had opportunity to study the detail of this "deal"

On a purely pragmatic basis I tend to believe the UK should leave the EU which is a deeply undemocratic bureaucracy which is unaccountable to the general public and has never had its financial affairs given a clean bill of health by the Auditors.

[NeverSure]

The UK needs to focus on getting more manufacturing and more exports regardless of Brexit. It now runs a huge trade deficit as a percentage with the #1 origin being German goods and #2 being China. Brits should get riled up about supporting Germany and China so much, but even that won't help if the UK doesn't ramp up it own manufacturing. Look how Thailand has benefited by manufacturing - even manufacturing for others. Look at how China has done the same but on a much bigger scale.

Manufacturing is the only significant way for a country to "create new wealth" unless it has massive amounts of farmland. Look at various countries in Asia that have small land masses but have long been focused on manufacturing.

There's only so much wealth in the world to pass around and the only way to get more of it is to create new wealth. A crop coming out of the ground is new wealth. Iron being made into steel is new wealth. Oil coming out of the ground is new wealth. Steel, glass and plastic (all new wealth in themselves when made) being molded into a new car is a lot of new wealth.

The UK needs to focus like a laser on obtaining manufacturing because it isn't going to find new farmland and perhaps not new oil. Germany is eating the UK's lunch with manufacturing and sadly, so is China. A bit off topic but look at how Americans are drooling at the promise of bringing jobs back from China and Mexico. The people can see how this has hurt the middle class. Once proud manufacturing cities like Detroit are in ruins.

In or out of the EU, "trading partners" aren't going to matter if the UK has little to trade. When the UK buys so much more than it sells, that's a harbinger of decline. It would take a change of thinking about taxing companies that want to provide jobs, but the UK needs to provide incentives for manufacturers to move in. The new wealth they create is paid mostly out as payroll.

I hope the UK gets out of the EU and starts focusing on the UK and its needs. The members of the EU will still be there wanting trade. Anything else is a bluff.

Cheers.

value can be added on intermediate steps other than the actual manufacture

Finance, innovation , distribution, logistics, etc

Cheers

Innovation yes, the others require existing wealth to function. They take care of existing wealth. The UK needs to create more new wealth so that everyone isn't trying to live from the same basket.

[nontabury]

Likely, as a non-European, I am missing something here, but permit me a question and a comment.

Why was the rest of Europe even interested in negotiating with Cameron on this ?

The UK joined the club after being given some concessions to do so. Now, one member of the club is demanding more changes if all of the other members want it (the UK) to continue to grace the clubhouse with its presence. The EEC, as I believe it was still called when the UK joined, used to survive without the UK as a member. I think it could do so again. Anyone who says "If I can't change the rules to be in my favour, I am going to take my ball and go home".should be told "We are sorry you feel that way.Come back if you decide you want to play by the agreed rules."

Not quite true. The UK has been formally trading with Europe since 1961(EFTA).

De Gaulle vetoed the first application by the UK to the EEC because of the close ties with the US, but the UK was still involved.

Europe needs the UK as much as the UK needs Europe.

Certainly the EU needs the UK to continue paying in millions each day, likewise the EU needs to trade with the UK,a trading pact that benefits the EU to the tune of billions each year. What I cannot work out is why the UK needs to remain in this corrupt Union.

[VIPinasia]

UK don't exist, it s a hoax.

been there, and all I see is water.

[sunnyjim5]

UK don't exist, it s a hoax.

been there, and all I see is water.

If all you saw was water you, quite clearly, are living on a different Planet.

[MAJIC]

Cameron asked the EU for next to nothing and he got even less. The mood here is for an out vote as the total negativity of the remain campaign has simply consisted of scaremongering about what will happen if we leave. They are today now saying that they might even throw out whatever is agreed after the vote so he is basically asking the mug public to TRUST both HIM and the EU which isn't going to go down well at all.

Saying all that there is a serious risk of there being nothing to vote to leave if the immigration and the financial trouble continues unabated !

I was gonna write pretty much what you have said, but you wrote it better, because you said it without swearing....makes me spit feathers, and i don't even live there anymore...

With what was on the table, Cameron came away with a paupers breakfast,of course it will be talked up into a lord mayor banquet,let us pray our kinsmen also don't fall fall for this Blatent B*** S****

[VIPinasia]

UK don't exist, it s a hoax.

been there, and all I see is water.

If all you saw was water you, quite clearly, are living on a different Planet.

so explain to me why at the custom, immigration agents with big scarf around their head are stamping passport. the guy look like he was imported from Kashmir. he asked me why I came to his country. I told him to eat curry and smoke some opium and I was welcome in his country.

I thought I landed in Kazakhstan or India last time I was in your UK la la land.

again UK is a hoax... it doesn't exist.

now I m on my way to eat a chichkebab and maybe f... a donkey with a pair of friends.

Edited February 20, 2016 by VIPinasia

[MAJIC]

Cameron asked the EU for next to nothing and he got even less. The mood here is for an out vote as the total negativity of the remain campaign has simply consisted of scaremongering about what will happen if we leave. They are today now saying that they might even throw out whatever is agreed after the vote so he is basically asking the mug public to TRUST both HIM and the EU which isn't going to go down well at all.

Saying all that there is a serious risk of there being nothing to vote to leave if the immigration and the financial trouble continues unabated !

I was gonna write pretty much what you have said, but you wrote it better, because you said it without swearing....makes me spit feathers, and i don't even live there anymore...

With what was on the table, Cameron came away with a paupers breakfast,of course it will be talked up into a lord mayor banquet,let us pray our kinsmen also don't fall for this Blatent $*** $****