'Simply impossible': Husband of Harvard debt-skipping dentist rejects repayment deadline

[sanukjim]

What a dumb move for this farang to get involved publicly.

Cue in millions of Thais who now think they finally have a farang to blame all this on.

Surely his wife should have avoided getting him involved at all

Yes as he could be in for a "thai haircut" from some Thais residing in The US.

[thaihome]

The link is in the OP. I guess you are to busy making personal attacks to find it.

The husband says she had zero income during the 3 years she was getting her immigration status legalized.

My suggestion to you is to try and get all the data available and not base your statements on just your own personal experience which appears to be much different then Doladree's. You might also try not to make personal attacks while having a discussion.

TH

[scorecard]

The link is in the OP. I guess you are to busy making personal attacks to find it.

The husband says she had zero income during the 3 years she was getting her immigration status legalized.

My suggestion to you is to try and get all the data available and not base your statements on just your own personal experience which appears to be much different then Doladree's. You might also try not to make personal attacks while having a discussion.

TH

So she had no income for three years out of some 24? years.

Is it true it takes 3 years of no other activity than getting immigration documents together? Somehow doubt it.

She knew full well she had a responsibility to pay back the money, she should have started the repayments a decade of more back and by now would have cleared 50%? maybe more, all regardless of whether or not she had income for 3 years of the 2 plus decades.

Edited February 20, 2016 by scorecard

[thaihome]

The link is in the OP. I guess you are to busy making personal attacks to find it.

The husband says she had zero income during the 3 years she was getting her immigration status legalized.

My suggestion to you is to try and get all the data available and not base your statements on just your own personal experience which appears to be much different then Doladree's. You might also try not to make personal attacks while having a discussion.

TH

So she had no income for three years out of some 24? years.

Is it true it takes 3 years of no other activity than getting immigration documents together? Somehow doubt it.

She knew full well she had a responsibility to pay back the money, she should have started the repayments a decade of more back and by now would have cleared 50%? maybe more, all regardless of whether or not she had income for 3 years of the 2 plus decades.

She graduated in 2003, 13 years ago. They have paid $50k of the $200k owed to the guarantors. She stated earlier they will pay the debt but need more time then the 30 months demanded. I am not defending her actions, they have been highly irresponsible to date. It sounds like they are trying to make up for it now , likely because of the social media campaign as well as the hiring of the US lawyer.

TH

[atyclb]

Yes theres tons of cheating, stealing and bribery in thai society. abac poll shows near 80% ok with it. apparently the mahidol population represents the % of society not ok with it. more than 5000 scholarships via mahidol did not have anyone default except this dentist.

in return for having a free education including living expenses at harvard she agreed to work as a dentist - teacher at a normal dentist - teacher salary for x number of years. thai dentists i know have quite a decent life.

other such students that decided to not fulfill the terms did indeed reimburse the provider. a usa dentist avg salary is 149,000 dollars/ year, easily enough to repay. she could have easily repaid over the last 20 years had she chosen to do so.

yes it seems like a lot of money now but it did not happen overnight but over 20 years.

Her income is a lot higher than $149k/year. Her salary as a faculty member at the Harvard Dental School was reported as $200,000/year which sounds about right, but she is also a member of a private dental group which certainly nets her several hundred thousand dollars more each year. As a Harvard faculty member she is at the very top of her profession. She probably makes north of $500,000 per year.

She and her husband are garden-variety psychopaths, taking advantage of others in the most blatant way. The world is full of them. One reason, among many, never to co-sign a loan for anyone, ever.

dont fault me or attack me for choosing to do very basic online research rather than using guessing and conjecture. all of my research is obtained from publicly available information (available openly and freely to anyone on the internet.

She is an "instructor" http://hsdm.harvard.edu/people/dolrudee-jumlongras

harvard instructor avg salary 91,000/year https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Harvard-University-Salaries-E2817.htm

her dentist license expired in 2014. https://checkalicense.hhs.state.ma.us/MyLicenseVerification/Details.aspx?agency_id=1&license_id=446475&

search dentist here https://checkalicense.hhs.state.ma.us/MyLicenseVerification/

by not renewing her dentist license she cannot work as a dentist and thus can claim her salary in much lower

[atyclb]

It's very easy for this to be 30M THB. She likely went to 1 year of high school, followed by 4 years of college and 4 years of dental school. Each year she was there she got tuition, health care and a stipend. It's very easy that this would total 300-400,000USD. The terms of repayment are that there is NO interest and no payments due until she graduates. If she goes back to Thailand, there is no payment that needs to be made. She gets all of the education for free. The only stipulation is that she has to stay in Thailand 2 years for every year she spent in the USA. If she stays in the USA, she has to pay back the amount of money that has been paid on her behalf times 3. So, 300-400K becomes over 1M easily and the exchange rate puts that around 30M THB.

essentially correct with some variations. thailand dental-medical school is 6 years after high school.

mahidol universit(public university) is perceived as superior to private universities and the tuition is significantly lower since the government is subsidizing. based on knowing her famil are not paupers it is unlikely she had debt from mahido.

her post graduate studies at harvard rapidly and easily created the debt of the 350k usd scholarship. then the failure to perform penalties kick in as well as interest

[CaptHaddock]

Yes theres tons of cheating, stealing and bribery in thai society. abac poll shows near 80% ok with it. apparently the mahidol population represents the % of society not ok with it. more than 5000 scholarships via mahidol did not have anyone default except this dentist.

in return for having a free education including living expenses at harvard she agreed to work as a dentist - teacher at a normal dentist - teacher salary for x number of years. thai dentists i know have quite a decent life.

other such students that decided to not fulfill the terms did indeed reimburse the provider. a usa dentist avg salary is 149,000 dollars/ year, easily enough to repay. she could have easily repaid over the last 20 years had she chosen to do so.

yes it seems like a lot of money now but it did not happen overnight but over 20 years.

Her income is a lot higher than $149k/year. Her salary as a faculty member at the Harvard Dental School was reported as $200,000/year which sounds about right, but she is also a member of a private dental group which certainly nets her several hundred thousand dollars more each year. As a Harvard faculty member she is at the very top of her profession. She probably makes north of $500,000 per year.

She and her husband are garden-variety psychopaths, taking advantage of others in the most blatant way. The world is full of them. One reason, among many, never to co-sign a loan for anyone, ever.

dont fault me or attack me for choosing to do very basic online research rather than using guessing and conjecture. all of my research is obtained from publicly available information (available openly and freely to anyone on the internet.

She is an "instructor" http://hsdm.harvard.edu/people/dolrudee-jumlongras

harvard instructor avg salary 91,000/year https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Harvard-University-Salaries-E2817.htm

her dentist license expired in 2014. https://checkalicense.hhs.state.ma.us/MyLicenseVerification/Details.aspx?agency_id=1&license_id=446475&

search dentist here https://checkalicense.hhs.state.ma.us/MyLicenseVerification/

by not renewing her dentist license she cannot work as a dentist and thus can claim her salary in much lower

I wasn't attacking you. I was disagreeing with you. I think your estimate is too low. That's all.

The average income I find for US dentists is $192k, but my earlier point is that a Harvard PhD in some dentistry specialization who is also on the Harvard faculty is certain to earn way above the US average. It's fine to do an online search, but then you have to interpret the results with some knowledge of how the world works. If the average annual salary of a Harvard instructor is $91,000 do you think for a moment a Harvard instructor in Latin poetry gets the same as a Harvard instructor in, say, pediatric cardiology? I don't think so. Doctors and dentists are going to get more, for sure. Probably a lot more. The number I read in an article about Dolrudee was $200,000, which seems plausible to me, but might be incorrect. I was personally acquainted with a Harvard PhD in dentistry some years ago. It was clear to me that such people are in high demand in private practices and compensated at the top of the profession.

Dolrudee was reported as belonging to a private practice. Now, as to what she actually makes I don't know, but her earning potential is clearly to be among the top 2% of all Americans where all the other doctors are.

Which is to say that anyone with those credentials could repay her debt even including the penalty for refusing to fulfill her teaching obligation.

[harrry]

It say also that that was a Faculty licence which could only be used to practice at the named institution

[thaihome]

The husband states that Doladree's income barely cover child care cost which is likely not far off. If they have two preschool children this could run to over $30K a year in the Boston area. Her take home pay even at 100k a year is not going to be not much over 50k. Combine that with a very nice house, they are like most upper middle class professional just keeping their heads above water in today's economy. As the husband said, paying 150k in 30 months is impossible (without a serious change in life style of course).

TH

[CaptHaddock]

The husband states that Doladree's income barely cover child care cost which is likely not far off. If they have two preschool children this could run to over $30K a year in the Boston area. Her take home pay even at 100k a year is not going to be not much over 50k. Combine that with a very nice house, they are like most upper middle class professional just keeping their heads above water in today's economy. As the husband said, paying 150k in 30 months is impossible (without a serious change in life style of course).

TH

Ridiculous assertion. No Harvard PhD dentist is working full-time to pay for daycare for two kids. The husband bought the $1 million home on his own so, assuming he had little or no down payment, a reasonable assumption, his income must be at least $300,000+ to qualify for such a mortgage. This couple's income is in the $500,000 to $800,000 range.

The couple are just whining deadbeats embarrassed to be caught out in the public glare which they never expected.

[atyclb]

a thai gal friend in usa that did her medical residency there had to work in an area deemed to be in need of physicians for 2 years as a requisite to unrestricted work/licensure in future. often the salaries in such areas are even better than those in desirable urban areas

[thaihome]

...embarrassed to be caught out in the public glare which they never expected.

I don't disagree with this assessment

TH

[atyclb]

It say also that that was a Faculty licence which could only be used to practice at the named institution

correct because MA state does not offer full unrestricted licences to dds graduates of non US / canada schools

[scorecard]

It say also that that was a Faculty licence which could only be used to practice at the named institution

correct because MA state does not offer full unrestricted licences to dds graduates of non US / canada schools

She knew from day one she was responsible and should have made some attempt, even a small attempt to make some payments, she didn't.

She knew years ago she was causing deep financial distress to four Thai people who were kind enough to sign guarantees for me, to the point where the guarantors could not provide good support to their own families. She ignored their attempts to discuss with her, she made no attempt to make any, even small, payments.

Who cares what her annual income is, it's irrelevant, she had responsibilities no matter what her income was /is.

She's an immoral lowlife, that's it.

Edited February 20, 2016 by scorecard

[atyclb]

Yes theres tons of cheating, stealing and bribery in thai society. abac poll shows near 80% ok with it. apparently the mahidol population represents the % of society not ok with it. more than 5000 scholarships via mahidol did not have anyone default except this dentist.

in return for having a free education including living expenses at harvard she agreed to work as a dentist - teacher at a normal dentist - teacher salary for x number of years. thai dentists i know have quite a decent life.

other such students that decided to not fulfill the terms did indeed reimburse the provider. a usa dentist avg salary is 149,000 dollars/ year, easily enough to repay. she could have easily repaid over the last 20 years had she chosen to do so.

yes it seems like a lot of money now but it did not happen overnight but over 20 years.

Her income is a lot higher than $149k/year. Her salary as a faculty member at the Harvard Dental School was reported as $200,000/year which sounds about right, but she is also a member of a private dental group which certainly nets her several hundred thousand dollars more each year. As a Harvard faculty member she is at the very top of her profession. She probably makes north of $500,000 per year.

She and her husband are garden-variety psychopaths, taking advantage of others in the most blatant way. The world is full of them. One reason, among many, never to co-sign a loan for anyone, ever.

dont fault me or attack me for choosing to do very basic online research rather than using guessing and conjecture. all of my research is obtained from publicly available information (available openly and freely to anyone on the internet.

She is an "instructor" http://hsdm.harvard.edu/people/dolrudee-jumlongras

harvard instructor avg salary 91,000/year https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Harvard-University-Salaries-E2817.htm

her dentist license expired in 2014. https://checkalicense.hhs.state.ma.us/MyLicenseVerification/Details.aspx?agency_id=1&license_id=446475&

search dentist here https://checkalicense.hhs.state.ma.us/MyLicenseVerification/

by not renewing her dentist license she cannot work as a dentist and thus can claim her salary in much lower

I wasn't attacking you. I was disagreeing with you. I think your estimate is too low. That's all.

The average income I find for US dentists is $192k, but my earlier point is that a Harvard PhD in some dentistry specialization who is also on the Harvard faculty is certain to earn way above the US average. It's fine to do an online search, but then you have to interpret the results with some knowledge of how the world works. If the average annual salary of a Harvard instructor is $91,000 do you think for a moment a Harvard instructor in Latin poetry gets the same as a Harvard instructor in, say, pediatric cardiology? I don't think so. Doctors and dentists are going to get more, for sure. Probably a lot more. The number I read in an article about Dolrudee was $200,000, which seems plausible to me, but might be incorrect. I was personally acquainted with a Harvard PhD in dentistry some years ago. It was clear to me that such people are in high demand in private practices and compensated at the top of the profession.

Dolrudee was reported as belonging to a private practice. Now, as to what she actually makes I don't know, but her earning potential is clearly to be among the top 2% of all Americans where all the other doctors are.

Which is to say that anyone with those credentials could repay her debt even including the penalty for refusing to fulfill her teaching obligation.

chill out, i wasnt suggesting you are attacking me, just that the norm for many is guessing and conjecture.

at https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Harvard-Medical-School-Salaries-E484830.htm the harvard medical school (not latin poetry) instructors avg salary is 67k

very high faculty salaries can be offered to celebrity academics (These are not your run-of-the-mill, everyday instructors. They are world-renowned, have made major contributions to society, and stand at the pinnacle of their profession. They are the rock stars of academia.) http://www.thebestschools.org/blog/2013/11/25/10-highest-paid-college-professors-u-s/ the thai dentist would not be a rock star academic.

since you mention pediatric cardiology, a high salary might be given to a famous pediatric cardiologist, one whos presence besides teaching, will attract well insured patients

in addition the dental license for a non us / canada grad is institution limited and hers expired in 2014.

[atyclb]

It say also that that was a Faculty licence which could only be used to practice at the named institution

correct because MA state does not offer full unrestricted licences to dds graduates of non US / canada schools

She knew from day one she was responsible and should have made some attempt, even a small attempt to make some payments, she didn't.

She knew years ago she was causing deep financial distress to four Thai people who were kind enough to sign guarantees for me, to the point where the guarantors could not provide good support to their own families. She ignored their attempts to discuss with her, she made no attempt to make any, even small, payments.

Who cares what her annual income is, it's irrelevant, she had responsibilities no matter what her income was /is.

She's an immoral lowlife, that's it.

im not defending her in the least. i even mentioned she may have not renewed her dds license so she could claim reduced salary.

[CaptHaddock]

So fine, my adjusted estimate of their family income is then $400,000 to $800,000 per year. These are rich people and they can certainly pay. But they would rather stiff her co-signers whose only fault was to be more generous than wise. These are vile people.

[scorecard]

It say also that that was a Faculty licence which could only be used to practice at the named institution

correct because MA state does not offer full unrestricted licences to dds graduates of non US / canada schools

She knew from day one she was responsible and should have made some attempt, even a small attempt to make some payments, she didn't.

She knew years ago she was causing deep financial distress to four Thai people who were kind enough to sign guarantees for me, to the point where the guarantors could not provide good support to their own families. She ignored their attempts to discuss with her, she made no attempt to make any, even small, payments.

Who cares what her annual income is, it's irrelevant, she had responsibilities no matter what her income was /is.

She's an immoral lowlife, that's it.

im not defending her in the least. i even mentioned she may have not renewed her dds license so she could claim reduced salary.

In fact if she did deliberately not renew as an excuse to not pay then this would just prove what a lowlife she is.

I repeat my comment, she's an immoral lowlife, that's it.

[thaihome]

She knew from day one she was responsible and should have made some attempt, even a small attempt to make some payments, she didn't.

She knew years ago she was causing deep financial distress to four Thai people who were kind enough to sign guarantees for me, to the point where the guarantors could not provide good support to their own families. She ignored their attempts to discuss with her, she made no attempt to make any, even small, payments.

Who cares what her annual income is, it's irrelevant, she had responsibilities no matter what her income was /is.

She's an immoral lowlife, that's it.

I think your being a bit harsh in your judgement. There are a number of errors in your post.

She has made payments of some 50k and claims to have made smaller payments through the guarantors in the past.

The guarantors have only been made to pay within the past few months. This situation came to light when one of the guarantors (who did not even know Dolduree) made his share of the payment last month and posted his receipt on his Facebook page.

Dolduree claims she has always intended to pay the debt but there has been personal and financial issues that have only recently been resolved. What has angered the one guarantor is finding out Dolduree and her husband bought a house for some $1.2 million in 2014. This appears to be on the upper side of median house price of $900k for that location.

I don't think they deserve to be called immoral lowlifes, somewhat irresponsible in ignoring education debts certainly. With social network attention this getting and the threat of lawsuits in the US by both the guarantors to get their 8 million baht and Maidol to collect the full $22 million baht penalty some settlement is sure to be arrived at.

Unfortunately it appears that some level of irrational revenge (along the lines of your post) has entered into the equation.

I do think there is some level of envy entering into this as well. In point of fact, making even $500k a year and living in the Boston area with children does not make you "rich". Upper middle class, but not rich and it is very easy to get over extended. Coming up with $150k cash would be very difficult.

TH

[Artisi]

She knew from day one she was responsible and should have made some attempt, even a small attempt to make some payments, she didn't.

She knew years ago she was causing deep financial distress to four Thai people who were kind enough to sign guarantees for me, to the point where the guarantors could not provide good support to their own families. She ignored their attempts to discuss with her, she made no attempt to make any, even small, payments.

Who cares what her annual income is, it's irrelevant, she had responsibilities no matter what her income was /is.

She's an immoral lowlife, that's it.

I think your being a bit harsh in your judgement. There are a number of errors in your post.

She has made payments of some 50k and claims to have made smaller payments through the guarantors in the past.

The guarantors have only been made to pay within the past few months. This situation came to light when one of the guarantors (who did not even know Dolduree) made his share of the payment last month and posted his receipt on his Facebook page.

Dolduree claims she has always intended to pay the debt but there has been personal and financial issues that have only recently been resolved. What has angered the one guarantor is finding out Dolduree and her husband bought a house for some $1.2 million in 2014. This appears to be on the upper side of median house price of $900k for that location.

I don't think they deserve to be called immoral lowlifes, somewhat irresponsible in ignoring education debts certainly. With social network attention this getting and the threat of lawsuits in the US by both the guarantors to get their 8 million baht and Maidol to collect the full $22 million baht penalty some settlement is sure to be arrived at.

Unfortunately it appears that some level of irrational revenge (along the lines of your post) has entered into the equation.

I do think there is some level of envy entering into this as well. In point of fact, making even $500k a year and living in the Boston area with children does not make you "rich". Upper middle class, but not rich and it is very easy to get over extended. Coming up with $150k cash would be very difficult.

TH

Would suggest she thought all this thru' before living in the Boston area, having 2 kids etc. Her first commitment was to return to Thailand and teach as per the contract she signed or pay the money.

I personally know many University lecturers, including my wife, who agreed to return and teach for the set period to off-set the monies spent on their education - so bleeding heart nonsense doesn't cut-it for me.

[trainman34014]

>>Her nickname is "Porsche"? Looks more like a Corolla.<<....Fiat Lada ,an old one more like.

I think a Trabant would be nearer the mark !

[atyclb]

Is the husband a dentist also?

[atyclb]

after 20 years of attempting to get repayment per contract terms a deadline is not unreasonable. now in the USA they started arresting people that defaulted on student loans http://www.fox26houston.com/news/local-news/92232732-story

Dr Dorludee is a stellar role model for her students at harvard.

i ran it by an actual north american attorney. he said take the thai court monetary judgement to a US court and hope for reciprocity in collection

[atyclb]

Theres many many student loan defaulters in the usa but they are not famous like the dentist since she is 1 / 5000, at harvard and from mahidol in thailand. she is a superstar.

[thaihome]

..return to Thailand and teach as per the contract she signed or pay the money.

I personally know many University lecturers, including my wife, who agreed to return and teach for the set period to off-set the monies spent on their education - so bleeding heart nonsense doesn't cut-it for me.

Her contact stated she had to teach for 3 times as many years as she was away to pay back money. For whatever reason, it took her 10 years to get her masters and PHD.

She obviously has some personal issues and was not a good choice for some one to guarantee, especially not even knowing her. I just think posters should have their facts straight before they start name calling.

TH

[CaptHaddock]

She knew from day one she was responsible and should have made some attempt, even a small attempt to make some payments, she didn't.

She knew years ago she was causing deep financial distress to four Thai people who were kind enough to sign guarantees for me, to the point where the guarantors could not provide good support to their own families. She ignored their attempts to discuss with her, she made no attempt to make any, even small, payments.

Who cares what her annual income is, it's irrelevant, she had responsibilities no matter what her income was /is.

She's an immoral lowlife, that's it.

I think your being a bit harsh in your judgement. There are a number of errors in your post.

She has made payments of some 50k and claims to have made smaller payments through the guarantors in the past.

The guarantors have only been made to pay within the past few months. This situation came to light when one of the guarantors (who did not even know Dolduree) made his share of the payment last month and posted his receipt on his Facebook page.

Dolduree claims she has always intended to pay the debt but there has been personal and financial issues that have only recently been resolved. What has angered the one guarantor is finding out Dolduree and her husband bought a house for some $1.2 million in 2014. This appears to be on the upper side of median house price of $900k for that location.

I don't think they deserve to be called immoral lowlifes, somewhat irresponsible in ignoring education debts certainly. With social network attention this getting and the threat of lawsuits in the US by both the guarantors to get their 8 million baht and Maidol to collect the full $22 million baht penalty some settlement is sure to be arrived at.

Unfortunately it appears that some level of irrational revenge (along the lines of your post) has entered into the equation.

I do think there is some level of envy entering into this as well. In point of fact, making even $500k a year and living in the Boston area with children does not make you "rich". Upper middle class, but not rich and it is very easy to get over extended. Coming up with $150k cash would be very difficult.

TH

I think you are missing an essential point here. Dolrudee is not in the same situation as an American student of say 20 years ago, who simply skipped off on his student debt and suffered no consequences for it. (They could do that then, but they cannot now.) Sure, they broke a promise, but the federal government or bank who made the loan seemed a somewhat abstract entity and it was hard to say that any person was actually harmed by it. What makes Dolrudee stand out among all the other defaulting students, is that she stiffed four real co-signers with faces and families. And these people trusted her as a person, also. Initially, the co-signers were going to be on the hook for the full 30 million baht although the university has since decided to hold them liable only for the initial loan amount, not the 3x penalty, which has now become 8 million baht somehow.

So each co-signer has to repay, on average, 2 million baht. As I recall at least two of the cosigners are faculty members at Mahidol. I don't know what their salaries are, but I'll bet they are shockingly low. The only comparable data point I happen to know is the salary of an actual clinical psychologist at Chulalongkorn Hospital which is 20,000 baht per month. Pretty shocking, right? Healthcare professionals can earn income on the side and probably do. I'll bet the Mahidol faculty co-signer makes no more than 40,000 or 50,000 baht in salary per month, if that. For these people to be saddled with repaying Dolrudee's debt because she could not flinch from her ironclad commitment to her own upper-middleclass lifestyle in Cambridge is almost inconceivably cruel. But that's they way psychopaths think: every detail of their own lives is crucially important, and other people are just an occasional annoyance.

Americans who earn $500k/yr don't ride around in their own jets like Donald Trump, but they are nevertheless rich by American standards and vastly rich by Thai standards. Over the years I have known a number of high-income deadbeats who stiffed others for money, including family members. They all sound just like the whining husband.

[romeijoe]

Sadely i have learnt that thais trully do not like to repay a debt.

[scorecard]

...embarrassed to be caught out in the public glare which they never expected.

I don't disagree with this assessment

TH

Quote: "...embarrassed to be caught out in the public glare which they never expected."

I add: , and regardless of how embarrassed they now are they have no intention of ever paying.

[scorecard]

She knew from day one she was responsible and should have made some attempt, even a small attempt to make some payments, she didn't.

She knew years ago she was causing deep financial distress to four Thai people who were kind enough to sign guarantees for me, to the point where the guarantors could not provide good support to their own families. She ignored their attempts to discuss with her, she made no attempt to make any, even small, payments.

Who cares what her annual income is, it's irrelevant, she had responsibilities no matter what her income was /is.

She's an immoral lowlife, that's it.

I think your being a bit harsh in your judgement. There are a number of errors in your post.

She has made payments of some 50k and claims to have made smaller payments through the guarantors in the past.

The guarantors have only been made to pay within the past few months. This situation came to light when one of the guarantors (who did not even know Dolduree) made his share of the payment last month and posted his receipt on his Facebook page.

Dolduree claims she has always intended to pay the debt but there has been personal and financial issues that have only recently been resolved. What has angered the one guarantor is finding out Dolduree and her husband bought a house for some $1.2 million in 2014. This appears to be on the upper side of median house price of $900k for that location.

I don't think they deserve to be called immoral lowlifes, somewhat irresponsible in ignoring education debts certainly. With social network attention this getting and the threat of lawsuits in the US by both the guarantors to get their 8 million baht and Maidol to collect the full $22 million baht penalty some settlement is sure to be arrived at.

Unfortunately it appears that some level of irrational revenge (along the lines of your post) has entered into the equation.

I do think there is some level of envy entering into this as well. In point of fact, making even $500k a year and living in the Boston area with children does not make you "rich". Upper middle class, but not rich and it is very easy to get over extended. Coming up with $150k cash would be very difficult.

TH

I think you are missing an essential point here. Dolrudee is not in the same situation as an American student of say 20 years ago, who simply skipped off on his student debt and suffered no consequences for it. (They could do that then, but they cannot now.) Sure, they broke a promise, but the federal government or bank who made the loan seemed a somewhat abstract entity and it was hard to say that any person was actually harmed by it. What makes Dolrudee stand out among all the other defaulting students, is that she stiffed four real co-signers with faces and families. And these people trusted her as a person, also. Initially, the co-signers were going to be on the hook for the full 30 million baht although the university has since decided to hold them liable only for the initial loan amount, not the 3x penalty, which has now become 8 million baht somehow.

So each co-signer has to repay, on average, 2 million baht. As I recall at least two of the cosigners are faculty members at Mahidol. I don't know what their salaries are, but I'll bet they are shockingly low. The only comparable data point I happen to know is the salary of an actual clinical psychologist at Chulalongkorn Hospital which is 20,000 baht per month. Pretty shocking, right? Healthcare professionals can earn income on the side and probably do. I'll bet the Mahidol faculty co-signer makes no more than 40,000 or 50,000 baht in salary per month, if that. For these people to be saddled with repaying Dolrudee's debt because she could not flinch from her ironclad commitment to her own upper-middleclass lifestyle in Cambridge is almost inconceivably cruel. But that's they way psychopaths think: every detail of their own lives is crucially important, and other people are just an occasional annoyance.

Americans who earn $500k/yr don't ride around in their own jets like Donald Trump, but they are nevertheless rich by American standards and vastly rich by Thai standards. Over the years I have known a number of high-income deadbeats who stiffed others for money, including family members. They all sound just like the whining husband.

"...and it was hard to say that any person was actually harmed by it. "

Perhaps you could explain this point, there is strong discussion that 4 local folks have been strongly financially affected when they were forced to pay up as guarantors.

[CaptHaddock]

She knew from day one she was responsible and should have made some attempt, even a small attempt to make some payments, she didn't.

She knew years ago she was causing deep financial distress to four Thai people who were kind enough to sign guarantees for me, to the point where the guarantors could not provide good support to their own families. She ignored their attempts to discuss with her, she made no attempt to make any, even small, payments.

Who cares what her annual income is, it's irrelevant, she had responsibilities no matter what her income was /is.

She's an immoral lowlife, that's it.

I think your being a bit harsh in your judgement. There are a number of errors in your post.

She has made payments of some 50k and claims to have made smaller payments through the guarantors in the past.

The guarantors have only been made to pay within the past few months. This situation came to light when one of the guarantors (who did not even know Dolduree) made his share of the payment last month and posted his receipt on his Facebook page.

Dolduree claims she has always intended to pay the debt but there has been personal and financial issues that have only recently been resolved. What has angered the one guarantor is finding out Dolduree and her husband bought a house for some $1.2 million in 2014. This appears to be on the upper side of median house price of $900k for that location.

I don't think they deserve to be called immoral lowlifes, somewhat irresponsible in ignoring education debts certainly. With social network attention this getting and the threat of lawsuits in the US by both the guarantors to get their 8 million baht and Maidol to collect the full $22 million baht penalty some settlement is sure to be arrived at.

Unfortunately it appears that some level of irrational revenge (along the lines of your post) has entered into the equation.

I do think there is some level of envy entering into this as well. In point of fact, making even $500k a year and living in the Boston area with children does not make you "rich". Upper middle class, but not rich and it is very easy to get over extended. Coming up with $150k cash would be very difficult.

TH

I think you are missing an essential point here. Dolrudee is not in the same situation as an American student of say 20 years ago, who simply skipped off on his student debt and suffered no consequences for it. (They could do that then, but they cannot now.) Sure, they broke a promise, but the federal government or bank who made the loan seemed a somewhat abstract entity and it was hard to say that any person was actually harmed by it. What makes Dolrudee stand out among all the other defaulting students, is that she stiffed four real co-signers with faces and families. And these people trusted her as a person, also. Initially, the co-signers were going to be on the hook for the full 30 million baht although the university has since decided to hold them liable only for the initial loan amount, not the 3x penalty, which has now become 8 million baht somehow.

So each co-signer has to repay, on average, 2 million baht. As I recall at least two of the cosigners are faculty members at Mahidol. I don't know what their salaries are, but I'll bet they are shockingly low. The only comparable data point I happen to know is the salary of an actual clinical psychologist at Chulalongkorn Hospital which is 20,000 baht per month. Pretty shocking, right? Healthcare professionals can earn income on the side and probably do. I'll bet the Mahidol faculty co-signer makes no more than 40,000 or 50,000 baht in salary per month, if that. For these people to be saddled with repaying Dolrudee's debt because she could not flinch from her ironclad commitment to her own upper-middleclass lifestyle in Cambridge is almost inconceivably cruel. But that's they way psychopaths think: every detail of their own lives is crucially important, and other people are just an occasional annoyance.

Americans who earn $500k/yr don't ride around in their own jets like Donald Trump, but they are nevertheless rich by American standards and vastly rich by Thai standards. Over the years I have known a number of high-income deadbeats who stiffed others for money, including family members. They all sound just like the whining husband.

"...and it was hard to say that any person was actually harmed by it. "

Perhaps you could explain this point, there is strong discussion that 4 local folks have been strongly financially affected when they were forced to pay up as guarantors.

I was contrasting American student defaulters of the past who reneged on their obligation to repay the federal govt with Dolrudee. Those American students did not adversely affect any actual individual, only the taxpayers in the aggregate. Dolrudee, on the other hand, stiffed her advisor, possibly her parents, and at least one other faculty member at Mahidol all of whom will suffer serious financial loss. So, Dolrudee is far more morally offensive because she is not merely shirking her financial responsibility, but actually imposing it on innocent people who trusted her and will suffer as a result. Basically, her victims are subsidizing her upper-middle-class lifestyle in the US. "They" in that passage refers to the American students of the past, not Dolrudee.