Chiang Mai: 100 armed police arrest foreigners for not carrying passports

[glenmohr]

That picture, with a semi-automatic weapon, in the tourist zone of CM is sure to make TAT happy! LOL I wonder how many trips are being cancelled as I write this???

Not enough, Craig, not enough ...

The clichés that prevail about every country are particularly time-resistent. They come up all the time on TVF threads, showing how little use most humans make of their own brain and how happy they are to appropriate ideas that are not theirs. There are positive and negative clichés about every country, and both always have a measure of truth in them, while being at the same time ridiculously reductive.

Here are some of the most resilient positive clichés about Thai people : they're said to be gentle, laid back, tolerant, fun-loving, and quick to smile, which prompted the famous slogan 'Land of Smiles', used at nauseam not only in Thailand itself but by tour operators around the world.

When you read an article like this one and see the very strong image that goes with it, you have to ask yourself (as did you) how deeply it can affect the positive clichés, which in turn would have a domino effect on tourism. Strangely enough, the answer is : very little effect, at least not in the short term or medium term. In this day and age where image is everything, image is also killing itself, in a way, because there is simply too much of it.

When, during the Koh Tao debacle, I read over and over again, on this Forum, comments like 'the world is watching', all I could think was ... 'if only'. The truth is that no, the world was, and is not watching. People plan their holidays according to a number of criteria, and a 'knee-jerk cancellation' due to an incident like this, shocking as it may be, is highly improbable.

In the long run, however ... that's a different thing. The image of Thailand is affected, albeit very slowly and gradually, by this incident and many others where the xenophobia of not only the authorities but also of many Thai people is made apparent.

Thailand prides itself on its thriving tourist 'industry' (the 2 words put together always make me cringe) and there's no doubt that this 'industry' brings in a lot of money. At the same time, and especially in the recent years (oh yes, it started way before the present government), Thailand reveals its visceral dislike of all things foreign in all kinds of ways. People in power are no exception, no exception indeed. There's this pathology called schizophrenia, and you're taught that it happens to human beings, but then you discover it can happen to countries as well.

One very good point you make Yann is that this damage will be more long term damage, in 10/15 years time a retiring couple will be deciding " Thailand? Isnt that the place where they arrest elderly people for playing bridge? Not going there thank you" Some really good leader may take over in the future and be crippled by falling tourism, none of which is his/ her fault. I think the damage will be very long lasting as the nearby countries become better organised in capitalising on Thailand's tailspin.

[T_Dog]

That picture, with a semi-automatic weapon, in the tourist zone of CM is sure to make TAT happy! LOL I wonder how many trips are being cancelled as I write this???

Not enough, Craig, not enough ...

The clichés that prevail about every country are particularly time-resistent. They come up all the time on TVF threads, showing how little use most humans make of their own brain and how happy they are to appropriate ideas that are not theirs. There are positive and negative clichés about every country, and both always have a measure of truth in them, while being at the same time ridiculously reductive.

Here are some of the most resilient positive clichés about Thai people : they're said to be gentle, laid back, tolerant, fun-loving, and quick to smile, which prompted the famous slogan 'Land of Smiles', used at nauseam not only in Thailand itself but by tour operators around the world.

When you read an article like this one and see the very strong image that goes with it, you have to ask yourself (as did you) how deeply it can affect the positive clichés, which in turn would have a domino effect on tourism. Strangely enough, the answer is : very little effect, at least not in the short term or medium term. In this day and age where image is everything, image is also killing itself, in a way, because there is simply too much of it.

When, during the Koh Tao debacle, I read over and over again, on this Forum, comments like 'the world is watching', all I could think was ... 'if only'. The truth is that no, the world was, and is not watching. People plan their holidays according to a number of criteria, and a 'knee-jerk cancellation' due to an incident like this, shocking as it may be, is highly improbable.

In the long run, however ... that's a different thing. The image of Thailand is affected, albeit very slowly and gradually, by this incident and many others where the xenophobia of not only the authorities but also of many Thai people is made apparent.

Thailand prides itself on its thriving tourist 'industry' (the 2 words put together always make me cringe) and there's no doubt that this 'industry' brings in a lot of money. At the same time, and especially in the recent years (oh yes, it started way before the present government), Thailand reveals its visceral dislike of all things foreign in all kinds of ways. People in power are no exception, no exception indeed. There's this pathology called schizophrenia, and you're taught that it happens to human beings, but then you discover it can happen to countries as well.

One very good point you make Yann is that this damage will be more long term damage, in 10/15 years time a retiring couple will be deciding " Thailand? Isnt that the place where they arrest elderly people for playing bridge? Not going there thank you" Some really good leader may take over in the future and be crippled by falling tourism, none of which is his/ her fault. I think the damage will be very long lasting as the nearby countries become better organised in capitalising on Thailand's tailspin.

Seeing how the government behaved right after the most recent coup was one of the factors that made me leave Thailand. Seeing the military pull tourists out of pickup taxis on the way to the elephant camps and lining them up to check passports was a sign where the country was headed. They also marched through foreign owned resorts flaunting their power. Thailand is a police state currently with an indeterminate future for several reasons.

[glenmohr]

Totally OTT and frankly outrageous behaviour in a supposedly civilised country - Thailand is firmly in reverse gear and my wife and I are firmly headed back to the UK in a few weeks as a result.

Goodbye Thailand and we wish Thais all the best in their bleak future.................

Put the shoe on the other foot. How would you react if implementing a raid where X is the unknown factor? Do you know how civilised countries' security forces arm themselves when undertaking similar type raids? If you bothered to check you might think they too are OTT and their actions outrageous. Why is it outrageous, did they assault anyone or place them in harms way.

Maybe there are more reasons for your move then what you are now presenting. Have a safe trip and hope the UK doesn't allow their security forces to act in this manner otherwise, we might see you back here whinging again. Oh, I forgot, they too arm themselves in the same manner. Crikey, where will you go next.

Faced with a potential threat in other countries Thea, there would be a special services unit who would deal with the situation, quickly, efficiently, professionally and if needed ruthlessly. The problem here is that Thailand has no training procedures to produce these units who in other countries are promptly helicoptered in to any flashpoint and take over from the local cops.

[glenmohr]

Yea know I have been here for over 25 years now and I have been asked to see my passport by the police only 2 times. I go through many police check points and they never ask for it. But I always carry it with me. And you should too. And don't say you are scared that someone might steal it from you. You should always be aware of where you are and who is around you so that nothing will happen.

I must have missed something here Diehard ( Nice name )

What exactly is the point of travelling to a country where one has to always sit with ones back to a corner wall with an unobstructed 360 degree view of the surrounding approaches, with ones brief case padlocked to one's wrist when none of the neighbouring countries require these actions?????

Because Malaysia, Vietnam, Philippines, Cambodia, Myanmar, laos don't even come close to the lifestyle thailand offers. There are plenty of threads on these, go read them. I'm here 10 years never pulled a passport, the post above is 25 years for twice.

Where did you get back to the wall from these odds.

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

Die hard said you ALWAYS have to be aware of where you are and who is around you. Well in the years I lived in Philippines I was pretty relaxed because there the death toll from guns is exactly 66% of Thailand, well below, no worries there, went long distance on a bus in Malaysia recently , not sure where my passport was, did not matter, who cared, But I think of the countries you mention Vietnam felt the safest after the shooting stopped in 1975. No worries there, Laos, Cambodia and Myanmar all pleased to see visitors after passing immigration no idea where I kept my passport, didn;t matter. I suspect the difference in those places is that there are simply no Thai police to be found. I ask again why would one want to travel to a country like Thailand which offers cheap girls and expensive cops. You did not mention China, any one ever heard of some one having a problem with carrying passport there, even an old train ticket did the job for me when I lived there.

[CoreanoOzzie]

It is time to go elsewhere and to avoid Thailand. Good morning, Vietnam.

I doubt you would be welcomed very much over there....

[CoreanoOzzie]

That was an official statement from a top cop stating Thai policy regarding passports.

The problem being, most Thai officials bought their jobs with money or family influence.

The higher they get, the less competent they get (if that's humanly possible).

Next you'll be claiming the general and his cabinet know how to run a country!

And yet you live here, fancy that hey!

[bkkrooftop]

People are leaving and and going to other places.. this is a fact..

Social media is not helping thailand during the last couple of yrs. everything is so expensive there for locals too.. this is not helping. I love thailand and always will but it does make me think about my choices and try out other places.

[bkkrooftop]

People are leaving and and going to other places.. this is a fact..

Social media is not helping thailand during the last couple of yrs. everything is so expensive there for locals too.. this is not helping. I love thailand and always will but it does make me think about my choices and try out other places.

I think they will always have china bc if i lived there I would go to Thailand too. Good luck with this

[ChoakMyDee]

I don't know what the problem is with carrying a passport at all times while out and about in Thailand. I've been here for 8 years and I NEVER leave the house without it. It's small. It's light. It's easy to carry in my front pocket with a zipper so it doesn't fall out.

You are in a 3rd world country. You have to think for yourself here. It doesn't matter if someone tells you that carrying a copy is OK; you know the rules change all the time. Carry your passport when out at all times and you will never have a problem. <deleted>. How difficult is that?

Thailand is not a third world country.

OK, I'll play your silly game.

Yes it is.

[Rhys]

Thailand doesn't want any foreigners living there. They only want them to go there on holiday, spend lots of money, then go back to their own countries.

Nonsense. This and similar raids in Pattaya and Bangkok are an attempt to be seen to be doing something about the potential terrorist threat. Over the top maybe, but if it led to the apprehension of an ISIL terrorist it would be considered worth it.

same responder...

[chiang mai]

I don't know what the problem is with carrying a passport at all times while out and about in Thailand. I've been here for 8 years and I NEVER leave the house without it. It's small. It's light. It's easy to carry in my front pocket with a zipper so it doesn't fall out.

You are in a 3rd world country. You have to think for yourself here. It doesn't matter if someone tells you that carrying a copy is OK; you know the rules change all the time. Carry your passport when out at all times and you will never have a problem. <deleted>. How difficult is that?

Thailand is not a third world country.

OK, I'll play your silly game.

Yes it is.

The term, "third world country" refers to the cold war days, it was meant to identify those countries that were neither aligned with the West nor with the USSR, ergo, Thailand is certainly not a third world country and the term has been redundant for many many years. But if you're grasping for an economics term to describe Thailand, World Bank classifies it as a "developing country".

[beerzy]

I don't know what the problem is with carrying a passport at all times while out and about in Thailand. I've been here for 8 years and I NEVER leave the house without it. It's small. It's light. It's easy to carry in my front pocket with a zipper so it doesn't fall out.

You are in a 3rd world country. You have to think for yourself here. It doesn't matter if someone tells you that carrying a copy is OK; you know the rules change all the time. Carry your passport when out at all times and you will never have a problem. <deleted>. How difficult is that?

Thailand is not a third world country.

OK, I'll play your silly game.

Yes it is.

The term, "third world country" refers to the cold war days, it was meant to identify those countries that were neither aligned with the West nor with the USSR, ergo, Thailand is certainly not a third world country and the term has been redundant for many many years. But if you're grasping for an economics term to describe Thailand, World Bank classifies it as a "developing country".

Half right Chiang mai.....there are two meanings.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/General/ThirdWorld_def.html

[ChoakMyDee]

I don't know what the problem is with carrying a passport at all times while out and about in Thailand. I've been here for 8 years and I NEVER leave the house without it. It's small. It's light. It's easy to carry in my front pocket with a zipper so it doesn't fall out.

You are in a 3rd world country. You have to think for yourself here. It doesn't matter if someone tells you that carrying a copy is OK; you know the rules change all the time. Carry your passport when out at all times and you will never have a problem. <deleted>. How difficult is that?

Thailand is not a third world country.

OK, I'll play your silly game.

Yes it is.

The term, "third world country" refers to the cold war days, it was meant to identify those countries that were neither aligned with the West nor with the USSR, ergo, Thailand is certainly not a third world country and the term has been redundant for many many years. But if you're grasping for an economics term to describe Thailand, World Bank classifies it as a "developing country".

I'm not grasping for any term. I'm simply stating my opinion. If you want to get all pedantic then fill your boots.

[Rhys]

Well the police are on task... the bridge players and their evil ways appear to have learned their lessons...now on to......

[chiang mai]

Thailand is not a third world country.

OK, I'll play your silly game.

Yes it is.

The term, "third world country" refers to the cold war days, it was meant to identify those countries that were neither aligned with the West nor with the USSR, ergo, Thailand is certainly not a third world country and the term has been redundant for many many years. But if you're grasping for an economics term to describe Thailand, World Bank classifies it as a "developing country".

Half right Chiang mai.....there are two meanings.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/General/ThirdWorld_def.html

I can't get your link to open (it times out) but I'm guessing it might contain two definitions similar to investopedia:

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/third-world.asp

If so, Thailand was never a colony, it's always been independent hence I don't believe it applies. Also, World Bank has yet a third term which is emerging country which Thailand used to be before it was elevated. Butwhat I think we can probably agree on however is that the term is very old and in this day and age, doesn't really have an application any longer.

[chiang mai]

Thailand is not a third world country.

OK, I'll play your silly game.

Yes it is.

The term, "third world country" refers to the cold war days, it was meant to identify those countries that were neither aligned with the West nor with the USSR, ergo, Thailand is certainly not a third world country and the term has been redundant for many many years. But if you're grasping for an economics term to describe Thailand, World Bank classifies it as a "developing country".

I'm not grasping for any term. I'm simply stating my opinion. If you want to get all pedantic then fill your boots.

On the contrary. Pedantic means to question minutiae whereas I question the gist.

[Si Thea01]

Totally OTT and frankly outrageous behaviour in a supposedly civilised country - Thailand is firmly in reverse gear and my wife and I are firmly headed back to the UK in a few weeks as a result.

Goodbye Thailand and we wish Thais all the best in their bleak future.................

Put the shoe on the other foot. How would you react if implementing a raid where X is the unknown factor? Do you know how civilised countries' security forces arm themselves when undertaking similar type raids? If you bothered to check you might think they too are OTT and their actions outrageous. Why is it outrageous, did they assault anyone or place them in harms way.

Maybe there are more reasons for your move then what you are now presenting. Have a safe trip and hope the UK doesn't allow their security forces to act in this manner otherwise, we might see you back here whinging again. Oh, I forgot, they too arm themselves in the same manner. Crikey, where will you go next.

Faced with a potential threat in other countries Thea, there would be a special services unit who would deal with the situation, quickly, efficiently, professionally and if needed ruthlessly. The problem here is that Thailand has no training procedures to produce these units who in other countries are promptly helicoptered in to any flashpoint and take over from the local cops.

Yes, understand that but there are special units here that are highly trained so your statement is not quite correct. The Crime Suppression Division has an Emergency Unit that is responsible for handling riots and other public disorders, sabotage, counterfeiting, fraud, illegal gambling operations, narcotics trafficking, and the activities of secret societies, and organized criminal associations.

Many of these officers are based in large regional areas and are called upon for their expertise when and if required. Now, with the police or soldiers involved in this incident, can you say that they have not been trained, I couldn't as I do not know their background or level of training. It appears that those involved performed their duties in a professional manner, it was concluded successfully and without anyone being harmed. Just a few idiots rounded up.

[CoreanoOzzie]

I don't know what the problem is with carrying a passport at all times while out and about in Thailand. I've been here for 8 years and I NEVER leave the house without it. It's small. It's light. It's easy to carry in my front pocket with a zipper so it doesn't fall out.

You are in a 3rd world country. You have to think for yourself here. It doesn't matter if someone tells you that carrying a copy is OK; you know the rules change all the time. Carry your passport when out at all times and you will never have a problem. <deleted>. How difficult is that?

Thailand is not a third world country.

OK, I'll play your silly game.

Yes it is.

Do you have any proof to back your claim? Cos I see flashy malls, more flashy cars on the road these days, lots of nice restaurants and bars.....hardly "3rd-world" if you ask me.

[CoreanoOzzie]

I don't know what the problem is with carrying a passport at all times while out and about in Thailand. I've been here for 8 years and I NEVER leave the house without it. It's small. It's light. It's easy to carry in my front pocket with a zipper so it doesn't fall out.

You are in a 3rd world country. You have to think for yourself here. It doesn't matter if someone tells you that carrying a copy is OK; you know the rules change all the time. Carry your passport when out at all times and you will never have a problem. <deleted>. How difficult is that?

Thailand is not a third world country.

OK, I'll play your silly game.

Yes it is.

The term, "third world country" refers to the cold war days, it was meant to identify those countries that were neither aligned with the West nor with the USSR, ergo, Thailand is certainly not a third world country and the term has been redundant for many many years. But if you're grasping for an economics term to describe Thailand, World Bank classifies it as a "developing country".

TVF doesn't contain the sharpest tools in the shed hey....good luck in educating the masses =(

[sandyf]

There is a difference between being detained and being arrested. Arrested just makes better headlines. The latter means going through the full process of booking the person in preparation for court appearance. One member who was caught up in it said none of that happened and many just walked away from the station.

Media hype it up and TVF makes it an issue.

A couple of months back I was at Nong Khai bus station waiting to go over the bridge and the police and army were going around taking photos and checking ID's. They never bothered with me, or any other western foreigner. Whenever anything happens western paranoia comes to the fore.

You cannot determine what gets caught in a net.

[Roomuck]

Here we go again " another nail in the tourist coffin" blah,blah blah.

Tourism up, year on year, not that you would think it reading thaivisa.

And it will be up again next year, and the year after like it always is. Bombs in the streets two years ago, the tourists keep coming. Bomb last year that killed tourists at Erawan temple. The doomsayers were saying the coup would ruin tourism blah,blah,blah.

I think the people who would be scared off by a routine passport check are not the type who would come to Thailand anyway.

The only thing that would cause a drop would be huge bomb like the Bali bombings, but it would bounce back again.

Roomuk, when the Yellows were patrolling the streets of Bangkok tourism went down, well down.If you are measuring against that you are correct, it is now up.

HOWEVER: the nature of Thai tourism has changed dramatically, 3 years ago it was mainly Caucasian, suddenly it is now Chinese, small and medium sized businesses, which should be the driver of the local economy, are suffering and the big business is flourishing from this change in tourism demographics. Chinese stay at 5 star hotels, eat at 5 star restaurants, buy ice creams and take pictures. Family run enterprises used to be the backbone of the Thai society, they are under threat same as us Caucasian inhabitants, changing times, not good.

So what you are saying is that they are better quality, better behaved tourists. Who do you think works serving at five star hotels? Hiso Thais? Where do you think the food in the restaurants they are eating comes from? Hi so Thai out in the rice fields?

Saturday I went to the Dusit zoo. I reckon there were more white people than Chinese. Then I went to the royal building next to the zoo, a spectacular building, well, bugger me, there were thousands, no exaggeration, thousands of Chinese there.

Yesterday went on a boat trip fro ayyutaya to Bangkok, it was close to full, if not full. On our bus load there were five chinesse in a family, one Thai, one Aussie, a Swiss couple, a Canadian woman, three Koreans, eight loud Italians, a group of five middle eastern types, and three Germans.

The Thais are good at making people from all nationalities welcome, always have been.

You think a Thai in a hotel cares that his customers are not white? We are not special.

[Roomuck]

You think they are going to notice 10 people from 30 million? If any of your friends end up needing medical traetment over there you will end up regretting it. Good luck.

No, but I doubt I'm the only one. I was responding to the person who said "no-one" will cancel. And I'm one of the people who is a regular in Thailand, and on here, as opposed to tourists who will read about bridge clubs getting raided and tourists harrassed for not taking their passports to nightclubs.

And there are plenty of decent hospitals and clinics in Cambodia, clearly you don't realise how many wealthy people visit the place these days, both for the casinos and the world heritage sites.

But to an extent, you are right. The "powers that be" will notice, because they do get the real figures, but they won't care, because they're too stupid and they don't care about anyone but themselves.

They won't care because the figures will be up. Your 10 will be replaced by thousands of others. Tourism to Thailand is increasing. Find me any source other than some posters on Thaivisa that says otherwise.

[petedk]

Thailand doesn't want any foreigners living there. They only want them to go there on holiday, spend lots of money, then go back to their own countries.

Nonsense. This and similar raids in Pattaya and Bangkok are an attempt to be seen to be doing something about the potential terrorist threat. Over the top maybe, but if it led to the apprehension of an ISIL terrorist it would be considered worth it.

I think most potential terrorists would hold a low profile and not run around enjoying the nightlife until the early hours of the morning, especially in Thailand where nightly pub raids can happen at any time.

[petedk]

I don't know what the problem is with carrying a passport at all times while out and about in Thailand. I've been here for 8 years and I NEVER leave the house without it. It's small. It's light. It's easy to carry in my front pocket with a zipper so it doesn't fall out.

You are in a 3rd world country. You have to think for yourself here. It doesn't matter if someone tells you that carrying a copy is OK; you know the rules change all the time. Carry your passport when out at all times and you will never have a problem. <deleted>. How difficult is that?

Thailand is not a third world country.

OK, I'll play your silly game.

Yes it is.

Do you have any proof to back your claim? Cos I see flashy malls, more flashy cars on the road these days, lots of nice restaurants and bars.....hardly "3rd-world" if you ask me.

Not to mention the price of food and drinks in these flashy malls. Thailand is no longer the cheap tourist destination it used to be.

[NCC1701A]

Ever notice how when you read stuff on TV and then get the F away from the computer and walk outside, none of this sh*t is happening?

[spidermike007]

These actions, and the similar action a couple of days earlier in Pattaya, combined with the raid of the bridge club, under false pretenses, present a very difficult and uncomfortable position for foreigners and ex-pats within the Kingdom. Are the authorities deliberately trying to tell us something? Are they going out of their way to say that we are no longer welcome here? It does appear that they are deliberately showing a level of hostility and callousness. If that is not the case, could it simply be a stunning lack of vision, clear and articulate policy, common sense and reason, and abuse of power on the part of both the army and the police? They know by now that this news travels all over the world. Is it possible they have made a policy decision to discourage western tourists and ex-pats, and just make the entire tourist industry primarily Chinese? If so, that would be a decision of spectacular ignorance, and lack of vision, which would not be a surprise at all. The Chinese do not spend nearly as much as the Westerners, and their economy is faltering also.

Regardless of how you view this recent series of fiascos, they are beyond the pale. They have stepped so far over the line in the past few weeks, and the damage is not retractable. One simply has to wonder what their motives are. They cannot really be this ignorant. Could they?

[spidermike007]

You are in a 3rd world country. You have to think for yourself here. It doesn't matter if someone tells you that carrying a copy is OK; you know the rules change all the time. Carry your passport when out at all times and you will never have a problem. <deleted>. How difficult is that?

Thailand is not a third world country.

OK, I'll play your silly game.

Yes it is.

Do you have any proof to back your claim? Cos I see flashy malls, more flashy cars on the road these days, lots of nice restaurants and bars.....hardly "3rd-world" if you ask me.

Not to mention the price of food and drinks in these flashy malls. Thailand is no longer the cheap tourist destination it used to be.

Thailand has not been cheap for years now. Reasonable. But not cheap. When Thais tell me how cheap the place is, I give them an ear full. You are mistaken. There are many items in the US that are cheaper. Many.

And in regard to the third world post, Thailand is definitely third world. Just travel out to the provinces, where the majority of the population lives. Check out the dirt floors and the typical homes. Many are very, very basic. Sure there is prosperity in the big cities, and plenty of bling. But, 3rd world it remains. Nearly all developed and first world countries have fully implemented 4G nationwide, traffic safety campaigns in place, a functional police force and judicial system, sidewalks and roads in good repair (with the exception of the US, which is degrading quickly), and good railroad systems. Just to name a few. I could go on for days.

And in regard to asking a tourist or ex-pat to carry their original passport at all times, this is nothing but hooliganism and foolishness on the part of the authorities. Nobody in their right mind would carry their passport around daily. Nobody. A color copy and/or a valid Thai drivers license should suffice. And if it does not, where are we anyway? N. Korea?

[Mot Dang]

Perhaps we should all just sew Yellow Star on our clothes, as it seems thats the way its heading....

Yes you are right. It seems to be that nations have forgot that China is still COMMUNIST. China may have put a sugar coating on their image over the past years, but they still are a world threat. Look how they are militarizing the South China Sea for a start, much to the condemnation of South East Asia. But not Thailand, they suck up to China where-ever they can, kowtowing no-less, and Thailand 30-40 years ago was the bastion of anticommunism. Thailand can only lose crawling into bed with China.

Mot Dang, I'm sorry but I beg to differ. China is not dangerous because it is communist. It is dangerous because it is China. The present Chinese system has nothing to do with the principles of communism as established by Karl Marx and everything to do with the Chinese mentality, especially when it comes to the question of territory.

Excuse me for saying so, but when you react like you do in your post, you show that you are just as brainwashed as the Chinese. You need to think deeper and understand what is really at stake here. There are two books that would help you immensely in doing just that :

- 'Mao the Unknown Story', by Jun Chang and Jon Halliday.

Best ever biography of the 'Great Helmsman', damning, terrifying, accurate, comprehensive. You will see that the 'Last Emperor' was definitely not Pu Yi but Mao himself. China never ceased to be an empire. It never was a communist country either. Mao just used communist ideas and methods (mostly copied from Stalin) to reach his goal, in Line with another emperor, Qin Shi Huang, who lived two and a half centuries before Christ, and to whom Mao often and explicitely compared himself.

- 'When China Rules the World', by Martin Jacques.

A superbly written analysis of contemporary China, with a thorough scientific approach and intellectual honesty that is not so frequent in the publishing world nowadays.

I totally agree with you. China is dangerous because of Chinese mentality. I lived there working for 12 months in the R&D Park of Tianjin. And grew to respect, and like, those young Chinese professionals that quite verbally denounce Marx, Mao and his cohorts. Some very openly had concerns about China's military view of the world. If you wish to be a China apologist go right ahead.

To call me brainwashed is questioning my intelligence, and is insulting. You don't know me, and by way of one casual paragraph I had written you think you do, well you would be in for a shock. We are all brainwashed in some manner or another, you obviously know China, and using that knowledge of China to attach me. No I don't wish to read your books, I would rather read another analysis of Thai history, as a resident of Thailand for 3 decades that is more relevant to me. Which I promise I will not shove down the throat of another TVF poster who disagrees with me.

You seem to miss the simple point I was trying to make, that I believe that it is dangerous to crawl into bed with China whilst moving away from traditional allies. The future Thailand may find that it may not like being in the pocket of China. I don't trust and dislike China, and even more so I don't like Chinese tourists coming into Thailand treading all over Thai customs and sensibilities. So call be brainwashed.

Tell me did you send the same treatise to tthMann, whose posting I had commented on ?

[luke000]

And in regard to asking a tourist or ex-pat to carry their original passport at all times, this is nothing but hooliganism and foolishness on the part of the authorities. Nobody in their right mind would carry their passport around daily. Nobody. A color copy and/or a valid Thai drivers license should suffice. And if it does not, where are we anyway? N. Korea?

Thai citizens have IC cards and people in Thailand are required to carry their ID cards at all times .

Foreigners do not have ID cards , so they have to have other forms of official ID , which is a pa[passport, even so, Foreigners are not required to carry their passports at all times, they just have to have access to it when asked to show it

[khunpa]

They raid a bar-area mostly visited by a bunch of low-budget wannabe hippies. Honestly who cares?

When they start raiding 5-stars hotels, you should start worrying...