Living offgrid with small solar system(s)

[Jing Joe]

Just two cents worth; a bit extra for other battery types.

State of Charge Sealed or Flooded Lead Acid Gel battery AGM battery

100% 12.70+ 12.85+ 12.80+

75% 12.40 12.65 12.60

50% 12.20 12.35 12.30

25% 12.00 12.00 12.00

0% 11.80 11.80 11.80

From; http://www.energymatters.com.au/components/battery-voltage-discharge/

and even better; http://modernsurvivalblog.com/alternative-energy/battery-state-of-charge-chart/

[Jing Joe]

 

As expected most germans like @naam arranged all well and surprisingly also your english is like an aussie hahahahha....unlike other germans i know its thump up @naam.

Ok...according to the specs of this dc toy it can pump 13000 ltr in one hour. With 200wp panel it can run easily during peak hours with a (dummy) battery. Lets say i can pump 8000ltr per hour x 4 then i think i can plan for my small pool attached to my planned gazebo above the pond

 

George I'm glad you wrote "DC TOY" because as about 15 pages back on this great forum I reckoned I'd never use a brush pump again. Brushless, magnetically coupled and PV tolerant; only way to go. Remarkably short life with brushes. Good luck.

[Naam]

checking the specific gravity would be a trifle tricky with sealed batteries

one could drill a little hole...

[Naam]

when there is a full powercut or on one specific phase only where the demand on the inverter is highest, the voltage drops to 24.5 under no load all systems show a steady 27.1 no matter whether inverter is on or switched off. any comments?

No matter if the inverter is on or off and no charging???? Do you have a 10watt inverter? Hehehehehe

i don't understand your silly @comment.

[Naam]

Maybe you should buy some rubber adult diapers and a big container of ice. You could keep dropping ice cubes in you pants. That should keep you cool.

that would make the pecker shrivel

[George Harmony]

As i am still orientating for a solar setup of the planned pool (pump) i came across this interesting detailed description of a greenpeace pumping project. Just wanna share it with you.

My idea is to implement a solar powered pump. That could be fixed in a small movable carriage/trolley and the pump that is needed can be of 1- HP/0.75HP/0.5 HP capable of discharging more than 22000 litres of water per hour (lph) or 2308.70 gallons of water per hour at total head range of 5-14 metres.

Half of the capacity of the described pump should be enough for a small swimming pool.

https://greenpeacechallenge.jovoto.com/ideas/32221

Edited April 22, 2016 by George Harmony

[Muhendis]

As I said, I'm not into the high tech precision methods. Using a hydrometer is not possible with sealed batteries. Reading the voltage is easy and gives me enough information. I think the most important thing is not to discharge your batteries more than 50 percent even if that means buying an extra battery or two.

I'm happy to wait a while until Tesla gets the prices down for the li-ion batteries. That will happen, I'm sure.

OK so checking the specific gravity would be a trifle tricky with sealed batteries. That leaves you with coulomb counting.

For that you need this.........http://www.ebay.com/bhp/battery-charge-meter

Having re-read my comment I think I was a bit too glib with the information I gave. Coulomb counting is nothing special except that it is an incredibly tiny quantity (check it out on the internet). The city supply company however uses it to measure how much electricity you use. They call it a watt/hour meter. My suggestion is to measure the energy going into the battery when you charge it then measure the energy going out when you discharge it. Providing the battery is fully charged when you start then you will have an accurate measure of the state of charge of the battery at all times. I am highlighting this particular product.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-120V-100A-Voltage-Forward-Reverse-Current-Ah-Time-Meter-Battery-AGM-SLA-LEAD/172173342813?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36499%26meid%3D173dfeea1a224c09a4d0cc640fbf0f45%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D170483294165

It is inexpensive and will calculate the percentage of charge left in the battery. I am quite impressed with it on paper so I am tempted to get one for myself.

Reading the battery voltage is a very rough guide to its state of charge and tells you nothing about the other all important characteristic which is the internal resistance of the battery. This is something that is variable and is a characteristic of the chemistry of the battery. If you like you can think of the battery as an electroplating plant, As you charge it, the sulphate in solution is transferred to one of the plates then as you discharge it the sulphate is mostly returned to the solution. This process is not 100% some of the sulphate gets left behind on the lead plate where it will crystallize. This will reduce the capacity of the battery and increase the internal resistance. When this happens the battery will appear to become fully charged sooner which is particularly noticeable with a three stage charger. It is for this reason that voltage measurements for the state of charge can only ever be regarded as a rough guide. As the battery ages so the voltage reading will change.

[Muhendis]

i will be initially walking around wearing a thick bathrobe and a furcap (if i find one)

I think I'm going to have nightmares tonight.............

[Muhendis]

checking the specific gravity would be a trifle tricky with sealed batteries

one could drill a little hole...

I guess that was a funny remark however it has been done some people. Americans ('cause they are poor) have done youtubes of removing the top from a sealed battery pouring out the acid into a suitable container then removing the plates to physically remove the sulphate. The battery is then reassembled and is "as good as new". They don't explain that the battery is no longer capable of reabsorbing the gasses produced during charge.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Muhendis

[Naam]

As i am still orientating for a solar setup of the planned pool (pump) i came across this interesting detailed description of a greenpeace pumping project. Just wanna share it with you.

My idea is to implement a solar powered pump. That could be fixed in a small movable carriage/trolley and the pump that is needed can be of 1- HP/0.75HP/0.5 HP capable of discharging more than 22000 litres of water per hour (lph) or 2308.70 gallons of water per hour at total head range of 5-14 metres.

Half of the capacity of the described pump should be enough for a small swimming pool.

https://greenpeacechallenge.jovoto.com/ideas/32221

pertaining to pump capacities the expression "small" pool without stating length, width and depth or volume can only be called "@half-àssed", alternatively @BU££shàt

[Naam]

checking the specific gravity would be a trifle tricky with sealed batteries

one could drill a little hole...

I guess that was a funny remark however it has been done some people. Americans ('cause they are poor) have done youtubes of removing the top from a sealed battery pouring out the acid into a suitable container then removing the plates to physically remove the sulphate. The battery is then reassembled and is "as good as new". They don't explain that the battery is no longer capable of reabsorbing the gasses produced during charge.

30 years ago in India lead acid batteries were cut open, plates cleaned and reassembled. these batteries did their job for another year or more.

[George Harmony]

@naam,

For me is a small pool 24-36m2, begin from 20cm up to 1.20 (1.50)m deep. Challenge for me would be a solar powered pump that do the job only during peakhours.

Although you sound a bit arrogant @naam, ive learned form you. Danke. Ofcourse thanks also to jingjoe, muhendis, crossy, gary and all others in this thread.

[Naam]

@naam,

For me is a small pool 24-36m2, begin from 20cm up to 1.20 (1.50)m deep. Challenge for me would be a solar powered pump that do the job only during peakhours.

Although you sound a bit arrogant @naam, ive learned form you. Danke. Ofcourse thanks also to jingjoe, muhendis, crossy, gary and all others in this thread.

asking to be precise has nothing to do with arrogance and a good example of you being unprecise is defining a "small" pool with a difference in measurement of 50% (see above)

[IMHO]

@naam,

For me is a small pool 24-36m2, begin from 20cm up to 1.20 (1.50)m deep. Challenge for me would be a solar powered pump that do the job only during peakhours.

Although you sound a bit arrogant @naam, ive learned form you. Danke. Ofcourse thanks also to jingjoe, muhendis, crossy, gary and all others in this thread.

In that case you will need 0.75HP to 1.5HP of pump.

Don't forget that the reason you pump water in a pool is so you can filter it, and filters are not particularly low resistance.

[George Harmony]

Thanks imho.

@naam., let me be arrogant. Half of the capacity of that indian solar pump project is how many liters pm or per hour flow? From this you can imagine that my planned pool wont be like a public pool where 100+ people can swim hehehehe....

@imho, i was thingking of making a pool with a pump of max. 0.5hp. Maybe a pool for foot bath only and i will invite some thai foot massage gals to be present when its ready hahahaha, sure @naam knows a few in pattaya ......??

[George Harmony]

Like this pump for example:

a Badu TOP S 8 pump, for example, rated at 0.4hp moves 9.1m3/hr and uses 0.3kW of power. This is 15% more flow using 20% less power than other major brand pumps rated at 0.5hp. So you can filter your pool quieter, faster and cheaper. That's good for the environment, good for your neighbours and good for your pocket.

https://www.dolphinpools.co.uk/equipment-and-accessories/pumps-and-filters/pumps

This was the plan:

Im in process of making a terrace/gazebo above my fishpond. On that roof i will install solar panels. I will add more panels if my budget permits. Like @gary i will slowly expand the system untill i have enough to run such a pump. But, when i read that indian story and how much he inevsted its not so huge. So, the planned pool will def come.

Edited April 23, 2016 by George Harmony

[Naam]

This is 15% more flow using 20% less power than other major brand pumps rated at 0.5hp.

XYZ makes you laundry whiter and costs less than any other major brand washing powder.

ABC cars are more reliable and use 20% less fuel than any other major brand cars.

QED massage girls give a better foot massage than any other girls.

LMN beer tastes much better and is cheaper than any other major brand beer.

to power pool pumps a grid connection is not mandatory, solar panels are sufficient because 5 consecutive rainy or cloudy days never happen in South East Asia.

marketing slogans blatant lies are made for suckers who will accept anything as long as it suits their wet dreams.

[Muhendis]

This is 15% more flow using 20% less power than other major brand pumps rated at 0.5hp.

XYZ makes you laundry whiter and costs less than any other major brand washing powder.

ABC cars are more reliable and use 20% less fuel than any other major brand cars.

QED massage girls give a better foot massage than any other girls.

LMN beer tastes much better and is cheaper than any other major brand beer.

to power pool pumps a grid connection is not mandatory, solar panels are sufficient because 5 consecutive rainy or cloudy days never happen in South East Asia.

marketing slogans blatant lies are made for suckers who will accept anything as long as it suits their wet dreams.

I'm inclined to agree with you although most of the time it's down to only mentioning the good news. The potential customer has to research carefully to decide whether there is any bad news lurking in the background or not.

[IMHO]

Like this pump for example:

a Badu TOP S 8 pump, for example, rated at 0.4hp moves 9.1m3/hr and uses 0.3kW of power. This is 15% more flow using 20% less power than other major brand pumps rated at 0.5hp. So you can filter your pool quieter, faster and cheaper. That's good for the environment, good for your neighbours and good for your pocket.

https://www.dolphinpools.co.uk/equipment-and-accessories/pumps-and-filters/pumps

This was the plan:

Im in process of making a terrace/gazebo above my fishpond. On that roof i will install solar panels. I will add more panels if my budget permits. Like @gary i will slowly expand the system untill i have enough to run such a pump. But, when i read that indian story and how much he inevsted its not so huge. So, the planned pool will def come.

Rule of thumb: whatever the spec is on a pump, reality is half once it's used for a pool with filter, pipes, bends, valves etc.

Let's say that pump can move 4,500L/hr once it's all setup. With 4-5 hours harvest time, in which you need to make 2 full turnovers of the pool, it can support:

4,500 *4.5 = 20,250 / 2 = 10,125L pool size (+/- 10%)

So you'll need several of them for your example pool. I can't see how that saves money over just buying one pump with the required flow rate.

Edited April 23, 2016 by IMHO

[George Harmony]

I was thinking of a pool 4m wide and 7m long, if possible. If its 28m3 its then 28000ltr. If cause of the differences in depth the volume of water is half or less i must worry for the capacity of the filter pump.

@imho,is it a must to pump around twice a day?? If for healthy reasons better to pump twice a day....pfffff....it must indeed be a higher hp

[George Harmony]

marketing slogans blatant lies are made for suckers who will accept anything as long as it suits their wet dreams.

Yeah....you r right...like my tv projector's specs.

16watt...forget it....its much more. ??

[Gary A]

This is 15% more flow using 20% less power than other major brand pumps rated at 0.5hp.

XYZ makes you laundry whiter and costs less than any other major brand washing powder.

ABC cars are more reliable and use 20% less fuel than any other major brand cars.

QED massage girls give a better foot massage than any other girls.

LMN beer tastes much better and is cheaper than any other major brand beer.

to power pool pumps a grid connection is not mandatory, solar panels are sufficient because 5 consecutive rainy or cloudy days never happen in South East Asia.

marketing slogans blatant lies are made for suckers who will accept anything as long as it suits their wet dreams.

The Chinese are quite creative. You can buy a mobile phone battery that has twice the power of the original. The amazing thing is that they are the same size physically as the original battery.

[Crossy]

The Chinese are quite creative. You can buy a mobile phone battery that has twice the power of the original. The amazing thing is that they are the same size physically as the original battery.

And they sell power-banks that should put Tesla out of business.

[Muhendis]

The Chinese are quite creative. You can buy a mobile phone battery that has twice the power of the original. The amazing thing is that they are the same size physically as the original battery.

And they sell power-banks that should put Tesla out of business.

I have some deep cycle 200Ah sealed batteries from China which are 10% lighter (weight) than the same size NC batteries I got from Bang Na. I would think the Chinese have skimped on the amount of lead so they cannot possibly last as long. The Moral to this is that whatever you buy, if it's cheap so is it's performance/longevity.

[Gary A]

I have always wondered why the people who invent the gadgets that are guaranteed to give you 30 percent better fuel economy don't sell them to the automotive companies.

[Naam]

IMHO

Rule of thumb: whatever the spec is on a pump, reality is half once it's used for a pool with filter, pipes, bends, valves etc.

you beat me to it!

[Naam]

I have always wondered why the people who invent the gadgets that are guaranteed to give you 30 percent better fuel economy don't sell them to the automotive companies.

a former neighbour of mine (Florida) swore all holy oaths that the additive he is using ($19.95 plus shipping, handling, tax, tag and title) reduces his gasoline consumption by 35%

comments from my wife "Bob is such a nice and polite chap! why argue?"

[George Harmony]

If i see examples of solar powered (pool)projects of lorentz ...wow....must sure wait a bit longer for my planned pool ??

https://www.lorentz.de/en/references/asia__thailand_1342.html

[IMHO]

@imho,is it a must to pump around twice a day?? If for healthy reasons better to pump twice a day....pfffff....it must indeed be a higher hp

If I wasn't sure, why would I post it? hehe

Outdoor pool: turnover full water volume 2x per day

Indoor pool: turnover full water volume 1x per day

Double or more for commercial pools.

Once you see what ends up in your water (dirt, leaves, bird shit etc), you will understand

[Muhendis]

@imho,is it a must to pump around twice a day?? If for healthy reasons better to pump twice a day....pfffff....it must indeed be a higher hp

If I wasn't sure, why would I post it? hehe

Outdoor pool: turnover full water volume 2x per day

Indoor pool: turnover full water volume 1x per day

Double or more for commercial pools.

Once you see what ends up in your water (dirt, leaves, bird shit etc), you will understand

So now we know why Naam built his pool indoors. To save electricity. That's why he has so much money.