Thai ex-PM Thaksin: Thailand like Myanmar before reforms

[robblok]

Who is right and who is wrong here,

I do not support Thaksin, however the talk of his attempt at an amnesty being an evil or corrupt thing as it was, needs to be balanced with the acknowledgement of the NCPO and their self applied amnesty on taking power.

Why are some posters so hung up about Thaksin seems to me his way is the Thai way and little different from the actions of those in power at present.

The NCPO only took power AFTER Thaksin wanted his amnesty and messed the country up. There are so many trials waiting for him that are far more serous as the one he was convicted in the guy needs one else he just can't come back. Without his constant causing of problems we would never have been here.

Without the amnesty he would have only messed the country up with the rice deal, the street protests would not have happened and the coup if it had happened would not have been supported by many (in the begin) and would not have gone as far as it has now.

This is like the guy who sets fire to something complains about the damages the firetruck does when putting out the fire.

[eggers]

Thaksin's a joke!!

He states, in part "...There would be a prime minister, but the real power would be in some politburo above him ...." Umm, who was pulling Yingluck's strings when she was in power???? The Puppeteer from Dubai!!

A self centred autocrat with no morals.

[PaullyW]

You presumably westerners who genuinely think that Thaksin is more corrupt or more evil than a host of other Thai politicians are lost.

Thailand is bursting at the seams with people just like Thaksin. They all share the same values but not all are equally competent at being corrupt.

Corruption is a fundamental part of Thai culture. Who would deny it?

Do we have any reasons to believe that the Junta, for example, is clean, or do we have reason to believe exactly the opposite?

What about any other political parties?

Westerners of reasonable intelligence should be better able to notice these patterns. There is no good group vs bad group in Thailand just as there is no good gang vs bad gang. They are all variations of the same lawless, unprincipled lot.

[robblok]

Who is right and who is wrong here,

I do not support Thaksin, however the talk of his attempt at an amnesty being an evil or corrupt thing as it was, needs to be balanced with the acknowledgement of the NCPO and their self applied amnesty on taking power.

Why are some posters so hung up about Thaksin seems to me his way is the Thai way and little different from the actions of those in power at present.

Because many of the posters on this thread are unable to view politics in terms of issues and find it a lot easier to perceive as some great big football match, once you've aligned yourself to a strip, that's it....logic, analysis and reason go out of the window.

Also a good point.. some also forget cause and reaction. Cause Thaksins amnesty .. street protests.. killings by red terrorists and then a coup. They were forced into the coup (and i can honestly say I don't support all things of this new government actually dislike them more and more, but I know who made it possible for this to happen).

[Artisi]

So I suppose he is totally blameless for the state of play in Thailand right now!!!

Trying to put certain mechanics in place to stop this <deleted> and his cohorts lying to the Thai people and milking Thailand all over again isn't going to be easy and I'm sure it's nearly an impossible job.

Although not ideal personally would I rather have the present people in power than his bunch and you can slate my comments as much as you want.

Good morning...

It was a good morning until I saw just another beat up by the media on the ravings of an fugitive idiot criminal.

And yes the current situation bring far from ideal is so far an improvement on the criminal government of Thaksin and family it is streets ahead.

[Rykbanlor]

You presumably westerners who genuinely think that Thaksin is more corrupt or more evil than a host of other Thai politicians are lost.

Thailand is bursting at the seams with people just like Thaksin. They all share the same values but not all are equally competent at being corrupt.

Corruption is a fundamental part of Thai culture. Who would deny it?

Do we have any reasons to believe that the Junta, for example, is clean, or do we have reason to believe exactly the opposite?

What about any other political parties?

Westerners of reasonable intelligence should be better able to notice these patterns. There is no good group vs bad group in Thailand just as there is no good gang vs bad gang. They are all variations of the same lawless, unprincipled lot.

I think a great deal of Farangs get their political opinions from their wives, others want to be viewed as 'in the know" (I know Thai culture, you don't understand).

Then those of us being objective are fair game to be accused by either yellow or red for being lackeys of the opposing side depending on the argument.

[PaullyW]

Thais, at the present time in their social and cultural evolution, really know only one style of governance which is based on Feudalism.

Get as much as I can for the people in my clan/group/family. That's it!

I'm not saying Thais are inherently bad. Indeed, the motivations driving them can be said to be good. They desire to take care of their own kin and the people in their sphere of influence and interaction.

What they are not, by and large, are people who operate on principles detached from clan membership. Given a conflicting choice between clan and principle, Thais will almost always protect clan irrespective of principles or law or what they otherwise consider right and wrong.

This is how Thai culture works for most Thais. It does not matter if they are Harvard educated or farmers from Roi Et. They share this trait. And, it is this trait, and not anything to do with their intelligence, that keeps them from making any significant social progress.

[robblok]

You presumably westerners who genuinely think that Thaksin is more corrupt or more evil than a host of other Thai politicians are lost.

Thailand is bursting at the seams with people just like Thaksin. They all share the same values but not all are equally competent at being corrupt.

Corruption is a fundamental part of Thai culture. Who would deny it?

Do we have any reasons to believe that the Junta, for example, is clean, or do we have reason to believe exactly the opposite?

What about any other political parties?

Westerners of reasonable intelligence should be better able to notice these patterns. There is no good group vs bad group in Thailand just as there is no good gang vs bad gang. They are all variations of the same lawless, unprincipled lot.

Not many command an armed group of terrorists that kill and celebrate on stage the deaths of people who oppose them. After the trad killings that left 2 kids dead the reds started cheering on stage. I would say anyone who has an armed wing like that would be bad in my book. (he uses them to get back instead of giving up like others)

As for your corruption argument, i cheer for every corrupt official that gets convicted. I don't care what side they are on (can look and read back in topics to confirm). So I want Thaksin to be punished too, he has been convicted and has serveral more serious cases going that would lead to even more convictions so without a doubt he is one of the worst. (just saying that others are bad too does not excuse him of doing time)

If you want to prove otherwise please give me some examples of corrupt officials that are convicted or have so many court cases going against them. You will see me cheering too if Suthep gets caught or an army general. But for now Thaksin is the one who is caught and has many cases going against him but uses violence and murder to get of the hook.

Do you remember anyone who has openly bribed judges like that (cake incident ?) or used threats and violence (his men in black and armed redshirts).

[webfact]

Thailand’s former leader calls junta’s election plans ‘a charade’
By James Hookway
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

NEW YORK: -- Thailand’s former leader Thaksin Shinawatra said the country’s ruling junta was jeopardizing the fragile economy by pushing plans for a new constitution that would limit the powers of elected governments and could preserve the influence of the generals who ousted his government and that of his sister.

“It’s a charade to show the world that Thailand is returning to democracy,” he said Sunday in a rare interview in a nearby country. “But in reality it would be like Myanmar before its political reforms. There would be a prime minister, but the real power would be in some politburo above him and the economy would suffer. No other government would want to touch Thailand.”

Full story: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/thailands-former-leader-calls-juntas-election-plans-a-charade-2016-02-21

-- MARKET WATCH 2016-02-22

[inbangkok]

Thaksin is out of his mind..... He is what took Thailand in a downward spiral, and his sister did the same... Thailand does Not need his false statement in comparing Thailand to the way Burma was.... BS.... He should come back and do his time in the monkey house... He is the criminal...

I know some people will not agree with my thoughts... So what.... I Love Thailand and only want the best for it...

If you really wanted the best for Thailand you would support the will of the people (it's called democracy).

[Bluespunk]

"Thaksin Shinawatra -- who has been living in exile since 2008"

No hes hasn't.

He's a fugitive criminal evading justice.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Bluespunk

[glenmohr]

As utterly despicable, corrupt, and loathsome as he is, Thaksin is bang on the money with this. And it shows what a low the NCPO has sunk to when Thaksin has the moral high ground

Yes indeed, the coup and subsequent events post coup has turned Yingluk and Thakisn into heroes, a most unlikely couple, but that is the fact.

[glenmohr]

Thais, at the present time in their social and cultural evolution, really know only one style of governance which is based on Feudalism.

Get as much as I can for the people in my clan/group/family. That's it!

I'm not saying Thais are inherently bad. Indeed, the motivations driving them can be said to be good. They desire to take care of their own kin and the people in their sphere of influence and interaction.

What they are not, by and large, are people who operate on principles detached from clan membership. Given a conflicting choice between clan and principle, Thais will almost always protect clan irrespective of principles or law or what they otherwise consider right and wrong.

This is how Thai culture works for most Thais. It does not matter if they are Harvard educated or farmers from Roi Et. They share this trait. And, it is this trait, and not anything to do with their intelligence, that keeps them from making any significant social progress.

Well said Paully.

In many Asian societies it is 1) the family, 2) the government and 3) the law.

In western societies it is the reverse order 1) The law, 2) the government and 3 ) the family.

[Bluespunk]

As utterly despicable, corrupt, and loathsome as he is, Thaksin is bang on the money with this. And it shows what a low the NCPO has sunk to when Thaksin has the moral high ground

Until after he has come back, served his current sentence and, one hopes, stood trial for the extra-judicial slaughter his war on drugs caused thaksin can never hold any form of moral ground.

[cumgranosalum]

Who is right and who is wrong here,

I do not support Thaksin, however the talk of his attempt at an amnesty being an evil or corrupt thing as it was, needs to be balanced with the acknowledgement of the NCPO and their self applied amnesty on taking power.

Why are some posters so hung up about Thaksin seems to me his way is the Thai way and little different from the actions of those in power at present.

Because many of the posters on this thread are unable to view politics in terms of issues and find it a lot easier to perceive as some great big football match, once you've aligned yourself to a strip, that's it....logic, analysis and reason go out of the window.

Also a good point.. some also forget cause and reaction. Cause Thaksins amnesty .. street protests.. killings by red terrorists and then a coup. They were forced into the coup (and i can honestly say I don't support all things of this new government actually dislike them more and more, but I know who made it possible for this to happen).

"red terrorists"? as in Man U? QED

Edited February 22, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[MZurf]

Thailand’s former leader calls junta’s election plans ‘a charade’

By James Hookway

THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

NEW YORK: -- Thailand’s former leader Thaksin Shinawatra said the country’s ruling junta was jeopardizing the fragile economy by pushing plans for a new constitution that would limit the powers of elected governments and could preserve the influence of the generals who ousted his government and that of his sister.

“It’s a charade to show the world that Thailand is returning to democracy,” he said Sunday in a rare interview in a nearby country. “But in reality it would be like Myanmar before its political reforms. There would be a prime minister, but the real power would be in some politburo above him and the economy would suffer. No other government would want to touch Thailand.”

Full story: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/thailands-former-leader-calls-juntas-election-plans-a-charade-2016-02-21

-- MARKET WATCH 2016-02-22

Now this should put a bee in the bonnet of a certain excitable someone! Imaging the little guy sitting at the kitchen table with his morning coffee, reading the paper and finding this story - priceless!

Edited February 22, 2016 by MZurf

[smedly]

it doesn't limit the power it spreads the power for a better representation of all the people, below copied from another thread

quote -

I honestly think that it is a good thing that no one single party holds all the cards and ultimately all the power, it is a good thing that the smaller parties will have a bigger say in what goes on and can only be good for the people in general, I can also see why PTP and Thaksin wouldn't like that as he stated in a recent statement, it's quite ironic that a man who was convicted in court and did a runner - has many more charges pending feels he is in a position to criticise anything

[cumgranosalum]

Who is right and who is wrong here,

I do not support Thaksin, however the talk of his attempt at an amnesty being an evil or corrupt thing as it was, needs to be balanced with the acknowledgement of the NCPO and their self applied amnesty on taking power.

Why are some posters so hung up about Thaksin seems to me his way is the Thai way and little different from the actions of those in power at present.

Because many of the posters on this thread are unable to view politics in terms of issues and find it a lot easier to perceive as some great big football match, once you've aligned yourself to a strip, that's it....logic, analysis and reason go out of the window.

Also a good point.. some also forget cause and reaction. Cause Thaksins amnesty .. street protests.. killings by red terrorists and then a coup. They were forced into the coup (and i can honestly say I don't support all things of this new government actually dislike them more and more, but I know who made it possible for this to happen).

BTW - if you think that Thaksin was the main reason the junta took power then you seriously need a lesson in Thai history and current affairs.

[mike324]

I think its safe to say both the DEM and PTP don't agree with what the Gen. Prayuth is doing now. So yes as much as I don't like Thaksin, what he says its true, we are sliding down the wrong path. Gen. Prayuth could have easily played this out so it would be a win win for citizens while enforcing laws and curbing corruption.

[Artisi]

I seem to remember Thailand being a role model of democracy when Thaksin and his corrupt family and friends held power, but then I woke up and realised it was all a dream,

[bobmac10]

If not for him pushing his amnesty through the whole coup would not have happened. His arrogance set this in motion (or at least gave it the perfect excuse) and now the guy is commenting on a situation he is the main responsible reason for. Priceless.

Some say there is an other reason for the coup (could be well true) but without Thaksin and his amnesty it would have looked totally different and all the changes would not have happened.

If he had not pushed as much and released his red terrorists we would not have been in this mess.

Robblok, you couldn't be more wrong.

Thaksin upset the powers that have ruled Thailand forever.

He got too big for his boots.

They had no control over him.

He had the populace behind him, thus undermining their control.

He also took everything for himself, leaving them the scraps.

He had to go.

That is why they put in the Democrats in control (their party) after the coup, but as soon as the next election was called it was obvious the populace was having none of it and voted in Yingluck.

Now they're making sure another populist government will EVER get elected.

This country is run by half a dozen families who I can't name for obvious reasons.

[robblok]

Who is right and who is wrong here,

I do not support Thaksin, however the talk of his attempt at an amnesty being an evil or corrupt thing as it was, needs to be balanced with the acknowledgement of the NCPO and their self applied amnesty on taking power.

Why are some posters so hung up about Thaksin seems to me his way is the Thai way and little different from the actions of those in power at present.

Because many of the posters on this thread are unable to view politics in terms of issues and find it a lot easier to perceive as some great big football match, once you've aligned yourself to a strip, that's it....logic, analysis and reason go out of the window.

Also a good point.. some also forget cause and reaction. Cause Thaksins amnesty .. street protests.. killings by red terrorists and then a coup. They were forced into the coup (and i can honestly say I don't support all things of this new government actually dislike them more and more, but I know who made it possible for this to happen).

BTW - if you think that Thaksin was the main reason the junta took power then you seriously need a lesson in Thai history and current affairs.

Learn to read.. i have mentioned the possible other reason.. but Thaksin has given them the perfect excuse. Without him they would have far less support and would not have been able to do what they do now.

[dageurreotype]

So I suppose he is totally blameless for the state of play in Thailand right now!!!

Trying to put certain mechanics in place to stop this <deleted> and his cohorts lying to the Thai people and milking Thailand all over again isn't going to be easy and I'm sure it's nearly an impossible job.

Although not ideal personally would I rather have the present people in power than his bunch and you can slate my comments as much as you want.

Good morning...

I can't think of one member of Taksin's government and it's many proxies I would piss on if they were on fire, so agree to that extent. However, sadly his shenanigans have lead to military rule in perpetuity. Even though some would argue, given 22 coups, it always was.

[smedly]

It's all about checks and balances, (supposidly) the most powerful political position in the world - the US President can do little domestically without Senate approval and yet weirdly enough he has ultimate power over the military - can start wars and has the means to destroy the whole planet

All governemts in the world have limits to what they can do without going through a process of approvals and checks from other bodies and groups, the sooner Thailand accepts this concept the better - especially politicians

[dageurreotype]

Thailand’s former leader calls junta’s election plans ‘a charade’

By James Hookway

THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

NEW YORK: -- Thailand’s former leader Thaksin Shinawatra said the country’s ruling junta was jeopardizing the fragile economy by pushing plans for a new constitution that would limit the powers of elected governments and could preserve the influence of the generals who ousted his government and that of his sister.

“It’s a charade to show the world that Thailand is returning to democracy,” he said Sunday in a rare interview in a nearby country. “But in reality it would be like Myanmar before its political reforms. There would be a prime minister, but the real power would be in some politburo above him and the economy would suffer. No other government would want to touch Thailand.”

Full story: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/thailands-former-leader-calls-juntas-election-plans-a-charade-2016-02-21

-- MARKET WATCH 2016-02-22

Now this should put a bee in the bonnet of a certain excitable someone! Imaging the little guy sitting at the kitchen table with his morning coffee, reading the paper and finding this story - priceless!

Given that just a few days ago P was strutting about telling Thailand 'Obama understands the situation here', I tend to agree. However, Taksin tad disingenuous when stating junta's self interest. Pot meet kettle.

[craigt3365]

It's all about checks and balances, (supposidly) the most powerful political position in the world - the US President can do little domestically without Senate approval and yet weirdly enough he has ultimate power over the military - can start wars and has the means to destroy the whole planet

All governemts in the world have limits to what they can do without going through a process of approvals and checks from other bodies and groups, the sooner Thailand accepts this concept the better - especially politicians

Incorrect:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution

The War Powers Resolution (also known as the War Powers Resolution of 1973 or the War Powers Act) (50 U.S.C. 1541–1548)^[1] is a federal law intended to check the president's power to commit the United States to an armed conflict without the consent of the U.S. Congress. The Resolution was adopted in the form of a United States Congress joint resolution. It provides that the U.S. President can send U.S. Armed Forces into action abroad only by declaration of war by Congress, "statutory authorization," or in case of "a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces."

[2fishin2]

You presumably westerners who genuinely think that Thaksin is more corrupt or more evil than a host of other Thai politicians are lost.

Thailand is bursting at the seams with people just like Thaksin. They all share the same values but not all are equally competent at being corrupt.

Corruption is a fundamental part of Thai culture. Who would deny it?

Do we have any reasons to believe that the Junta, for example, is clean, or do we have reason to believe exactly the opposite?

What about any other political parties?

Westerners of reasonable intelligence should be better able to notice these patterns. There is no good group vs bad group in Thailand just as there is no good gang vs bad gang. They are all variations of the same lawless, unprincipled lot.

You are so correct.

Its astounding to me the percentage of TV members that falls into the Westerners who lack "reasonable intelligence" and can't figure this all out.

Ironic that this article came out today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/22/world/asia/reporting-on-life-death-and-corruption-in-southeast-asia.html?_r=0

Edited February 22, 2016 by 2fishin2

[soalbundy]

The force is strong in this one.....i think. Where is his black helmet ?

[rebelplatoon]

He's NOT spot on, quite a few differences with Myanmar. The new constitution and election laws are meant to prevent future chaos. Meanwhile the military IS hanging on way too long and should let society get back in control. After that the people can make any change they want. There is after all no quotum for seats reserved in government as is in Myanmar right now.

[gregk0543]

When Donald Trump becomes President of the United states the army there may have to do the same thing and take over to clean up the senate and congress.

Imagine that.

I have lived in Myanmar for most of the past 35 years so it comes as a shock how little Thaksin seems to know about Myanmar and how it was run prior to the reforms.

Thailand is becoming like Thailand and it is a long way from Myanmar except in the most superficial likenesses politically.

Having read the article I see he is being concerned about the new charter. Is he concerned about the country or just concerned about his own interests? That seems to be the question.

Edited February 22, 2016 by gregk0543