Dual Pricing again

[Saan]

I visited Huey Thung Thao, a beautiful lake just outside Chiang Mai on Sunday. For the first time for me dual pricing. I argued that I live in CM, pay tax etc but no go. So I stayed at the booth. Cars backed up behind and I just kept offering the money for two tickets at Thai price. They gave up in the end.

[bazza40]

I can understand people noticing dual pricing. What I can't understand is why they get their knickers in such a twist about it.

If you go to just about any golf club in the world, the price for visitors is always more than for members. That's because members pay annual subscriptions.

So if you are a falang in Thailand, how much tax have you paid compared to a Thai national?

When it comes to the crunch, if you think the green fees for a visitor at a golf club are too steep or poor value, you walk away.

It baffles me why the pissers and moaners on TV can't grasp the same principle applies to dual pricing in Thailand.

It's also somewhat pathetic when it's 100 baht versus 200 baht - if that signals impending bankruptcy, you shouldn't be here.

Rant over.

[inbangkok]

You think too much!

Maybe you don't think enough.....

Quite possible! But after 10+ years of living here I"ve learned that getting upset or angry at Thai ways is rather pointless.

That's cool.... Just give in and accept everything. But don't expect others to do the same.

If you are going to make the conscious and entirely free choice to go and live in another country, then it is only polite and respectful to accept the ways and customs of your hosts. Nobody forces anyone to go and live in another country. Thais are no more likely to change their ways to accommodate western sensitivities, than say the UK is to accept Sharia law in order to appease the Muslim immigrants, or a middle eastern country is going to allow girls to go topless on their beaches. It is no big secret that dual pricing targeting foreigners exists in Thailand, as it does in may other Asian countries. Five minutes on Google is all it takes to educate oneself about that. So armed with that knowledge why on earth would anyone then make the decision to settle in Thailand if they found the practice to be so unpalatable?

There are 2 choices - either the ' when in Rome do as the Romans do' option, or if it's bothering one so much then find another country where you will be happier. If you are unable to choose either of those then I'm afraid you will forever remain a part of the problem rather than a part of the solution.

Wow... What an intellectual you are! Comparing dual pricing and sharia law.

Seriously, your post is such nonsense I am not going to spend too much time responding. All that's really important is the FACT that just because I live in another country does not mean I have to absolutely adore everything about it. No differently, there are plenty of things in my home country I am not thrilled with either.

Yes you don't have to adore everything about the country you have chosen to live in - just accept it. If you cannot accept it then clearly you have made the wrong choice of destination; and if you can't accept that, then it does rather look like you are set to forever remain a part of the problem rather than a part of the solution.

You are so pathetic. There is no country in the world I will adore 100 percent. I will not expect my wife to adore everything about my country when we move there either. I think you are trolling at this point.......

And what problems? Expressing my opinion on an anonymous Web board? Seriously? This is why I am convinced you are trolling me...... No one can be this dim......

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts have been removed.

[bazza40]

Most foreign countries have dual pricing.

It's only fair as most citizens here have much less than most tourists and retirees.

If it annoys you go home and pay much higher prices and be invisible to most women.

so when youre in a queue in a 15 year old car and everyone around you is in new mercs and camrys its right that the white guy pays more than the rich thais?

another thai ashlicker.

My Thai friends (business owners) recently decided to visit Mimosa shopping "mall" in Pattaya and asked if I would like to join them. We pulled up in a 5 million baht BMW and parked right next to the entrance gate. My friends were ushered through but I was stopped. I asked why.

Thais free, farang 300 Baht. We are discussed for a few minutes and eventually I got in using my DL. I am glad I didn't have to pay. What a complete waste of money and time.

By the way, I later saw on Internet it was 100 (or 150 baht for foreigners). Why on earth they asked for 300 I don't know.

Being charged to visit a <deleted> shopping mall? Well I never, and never will.

[n210mp]

I can understand people noticing dual pricing. What I can't understand is why they get their knickers in such a twist about it.

If you go to just about any golf club in the world, the price for visitors is always more than for members. That's because members pay annual subscriptions.

So if you are a falang in Thailand, how much tax have you paid compared to a Thai national?

When it comes to the crunch, if you think the green fees for a visitor at a golf club are too steep or poor value, you walk away.

It baffles me why the pissers and moaners on TV can't grasp the same principle applies to dual pricing in Thailand.

It's also somewhat pathetic when it's 100 baht versus 200 baht - if that signals impending bankruptcy, you shouldn't be here.

Rant over.

Some pissers and moaners just dont like pure chuffin racism

Some pissers actually in the end can make a difference but then again this pisser is possibly wasting his time on trying to convince those with a paucity of any understanding of the issues involved in dual pricing that not only is it blatantly unfair it is actual bigoted and pure RACISM

Edited February 24, 2016 by n210mp

[Happy Grumpy]

Some farangs are embarrassingly immature.

Perhaps they have underlying issues that they misdirect into this.

[MartinL]

I can understand people noticing dual pricing. What I can't understand is why they get their knickers in such a twist about it.

If you go to just about any golf club in the world, the price for visitors is always more than for members. That's because members pay annual subscriptions.

So if you are a falang in Thailand, how much tax have you paid compared to a Thai national?

When it comes to the crunch, if you think the green fees for a visitor at a golf club are too steep or poor value, you walk away.

It baffles me why the pissers and moaners on TV can't grasp the same principle applies to dual pricing in Thailand.

It's also somewhat pathetic when it's 100 baht versus 200 baht - if that signals impending bankruptcy, you shouldn't be here.

Rant over.

Below is based on information extracted from the Thailand Revenue Department website; http://www.rd.go.th/publish/24602.0.html 2014 Report, table on p. 94:-

Average (Personal Income Tax [PIT] + VAT) per person = 10,620 + 4,194 = 14,814 Baht.

(Assuming a Thailand population of 67,000,000)

Since the only one of those I pay on a regular basis is VAT, this equates to a VAT-liable annual spend of 14,814 / 7% = 211,628 Baht, i.e. if I spend more than 211,628 Baht p.a. on VAT-liable goods & services, I meet the average (PIT + VAT) tax payment per person in Thailand.

Without checking all my bills for VAT content, I reckon I pay quite a bit more than the average annual payment of (VAT + PIT) and therefore pay my way taxwise as a retired, non-working foreigner living in Thailand.

Why is only INCOME tax considered relevant when discussing this subject? The Thai Revenue Dept. receives 2.5x as much from VAT as it does from PIT.

As for the golf club analogy, how would someone feel if they'd paid their annual subs. (tax) and were then barred from the golf course because they weren't of the local nationality?

[Robert24]

Complaining about dual pricing won't change anything. Just wasted energy. Either accept or don't go to such places with dual pricing.

[Shadychris]

You think too much!

Maybe you don't think enough.....

Quite possible! But after 10+ years of living here I"ve learned that getting upset or angry at Thai ways is rather pointless.

That's cool.... Just give in and accept everything. But don't expect others to do the same.

If you are going to make the conscious and entirely free choice to go and live in another country, then it is only polite and respectful to accept the ways and customs of your hosts. Nobody forces anyone to go and live in another country. Thais are no more likely to change their ways to accommodate western sensitivities, than say the UK is to accept Sharia law in order to appease the Muslim immigrants, or a middle eastern country is going to allow girls to go topless on their beaches. It is no big secret that dual pricing targeting foreigners exists in Thailand, as it does in may other Asian countries. Five minutes on Google is all it takes to educate oneself about that. So armed with that knowledge why on earth would anyone then make the decision to settle in Thailand if they found the practice to be so unpalatable?

There are 2 choices - either the ' when in Rome do as the Romans do' option, or if it's bothering one so much then find another country where you will be happier. If you are unable to choose either of those then I'm afraid you will forever remain a part of the problem rather than a part of the solution.

Wow... What an intellectual you are! Comparing dual pricing and sharia law.

Seriously, your post is such nonsense I am not going to spend too much time responding. All that's really important is the FACT that just because I live in another country does not mean I have to absolutely adore everything about it. No differently, there are plenty of things in my home country I am not thrilled with either.

Yes you don't have to adore everything about the country you have chosen to live in - just accept it. If you cannot accept it then clearly you have made the wrong choice of destination; and if you can't accept that, then it does rather look like you are set to forever remain a part of the problem rather than a part of the solution.

You are so pathetic. There is no country in the world I will adore 100 percent. I will not expect my wife to adore everything about my country when we move there either. I think you are trolling at this point.......

And what problems? Expressing my opinion on an anonymous Web board? Seriously? This is why I am convinced you are trolling me...... No one can be this dim......

Talk about dim... are you being deliberately disingenuous or is your level of comprehension really so low?

I had already said that you don't have to adore the place - just ACCEPT it. Thailand and the Thai people have no obligation or duty to change their ways to pander to your perception of what is right and wrong.

The 'problem' I refer to is not that you are posting your opinion on a web board - I have no idea how you reached that conclusion - have you been drinking?

I would have thought it obvious even to the dullest of brains that the 'problem' I refer to is the problem that you (and some others) seem to have with dual pricing. It is not the Thai's problem, and nor is it mine or any of the others who can accept the ways and culture of the place they CHOOSE to live. If you cannot accept the ways of your host country then you have the choice to live somewhere else. It's not rocket science - if you are incapable of doing either then you are always going to be part of your own problem. Comprendez?

Edited February 24, 2016 by Shadychris

[MartinL]

My Thai friends (business owners) recently decided to visit Mimosa shopping "mall" in Pattaya and asked if I would like to join them. We pulled up in a 5 million baht BMW and parked right next to the entrance gate. My friends were ushered through but I was stopped. I asked why.

Thais free, farang 300 Baht. We are discussed for a few minutes and eventually I got in using my DL. I am glad I didn't have to pay. What a complete waste of money and time.

By the way, I later saw on Internet it was 100 (or 150 baht for foreigners). Why on earth they asked for 300 I don't know.

Didn't a single one of your oh-so-important friends do what I'd expect of anybody I called a friend and kick-up a stink on your behalf?

Didn't they say anything like "If my mate isn't good enough to come in & spend his money with us, without being charged an extra fee, then we're all leaving right now"?

Did they all just march in before you & leave you to discuss the matter alone?

If they didn't, they're not real friends and think so little of you (just a foreigner) that they think you should pay extra.

As the saying goes "With friends like that, who needs enemies".

But maybe you just omitted to mention that they were in your corner over this.

Edited February 24, 2016 by MartinL

[smotherb]

It's just Thai-logic: Farang is automatically rich, so can easily pay more.

Just buy fewer lady-drinks next time you go out and you will have made your money back :-)

Happy, Happy... Relak and Big Smile :-D

Exactly, so if you're not rich, you should be fined for false representation. You ought to be ashamed of yourself; making Thais think you're rich.

[inbangkok]

You think too much!

Maybe you don't think enough.....

Quite possible! But after 10+ years of living here I"ve learned that getting upset or angry at Thai ways is rather pointless.

That's cool.... Just give in and accept everything. But don't expect others to do the same.

If you are going to make the conscious and entirely free choice to go and live in another country, then it is only polite and respectful to accept the ways and customs of your hosts. Nobody forces anyone to go and live in another country. Thais are no more likely to change their ways to accommodate western sensitivities, than say the UK is to accept Sharia law in order to appease the Muslim immigrants, or a middle eastern country is going to allow girls to go topless on their beaches. It is no big secret that dual pricing targeting foreigners exists in Thailand, as it does in may other Asian countries. Five minutes on Google is all it takes to educate oneself about that. So armed with that knowledge why on earth would anyone then make the decision to settle in Thailand if they found the practice to be so unpalatable?

There are 2 choices - either the ' when in Rome do as the Romans do' option, or if it's bothering one so much then find another country where you will be happier. If you are unable to choose either of those then I'm afraid you will forever remain a part of the problem rather than a part of the solution.

Wow... What an intellectual you are! Comparing dual pricing and sharia law.

Seriously, your post is such nonsense I am not going to spend too much time responding. All that's really important is the FACT that just because I live in another country does not mean I have to absolutely adore everything about it. No differently, there are plenty of things in my home country I am not thrilled with either.

Yes you don't have to adore everything about the country you have chosen to live in - just accept it. If you cannot accept it then clearly you have made the wrong choice of destination; and if you can't accept that, then it does rather look like you are set to forever remain a part of the problem rather than a part of the solution.

You are so pathetic. There is no country in the world I will adore 100 percent. I will not expect my wife to adore everything about my country when we move there either. I think you are trolling at this point.......

And what problems? Expressing my opinion on an anonymous Web board? Seriously? This is why I am convinced you are trolling me...... No one can be this dim......

Talk about dim... are you being deliberately disingenuous or is your level of comprehension really so low?

I had already said that you don't have to adore the place - just ACCEPT it. Thailand and the Thai people have no obligation or duty to change their ways to pander to your perception of what is right and wrong.

The 'problem' I refer to is not that you are posting your opinion on a web board - I have no idea how you reached that conclusion - have you been drinking?

I would have thought it obvious even to the dullest of brains that the 'problem' I refer to is the problem that you (and some others) seem to have with dual pricing. It is not the Thai's problem, and nor is it mine or any of the others who can accept the ways and culture of the place they CHOOSE to live. If you cannot accept the ways of your host country then you have the choice to live somewhere else. It's not rocket science - if you are incapable of doing either then you are always going to be part of your own problem. Comprendez?

You are like a whining child who simply can't accept that other people have their right to an opinion different than yours.

And I don't drink..... I am sure you do though. Your attitude totally coincides with the elderly, nasty alcoholic expats that Thailand is so famous for.

And talk about being completely disingenuous..... When did I ever claim Thailand needs to cater/pander to me or my beliefs? Don't worry, it's a rhetorical question since we both know I never suggested such a thing.

You should really get over yourself. I don't have to accept anything.....i am perfectly capable of living here.... AND.....(wait for it)..... At the SAME TIME not be super satisfied with a few things. And the crazy part is, it's generally some dim witted foreigner who claims this can't be done. The "love it or leave it" brigade. Well, newsflash Einstein....... I am perfectly capable of of living a nice life here while dealing with a few annoyances along the way.......

[1BADDAT]

I can understand people noticing dual pricing. What I can't understand is why they get their knickers in such a twist about it.

If you go to just about any golf club in the world, the price for visitors is always more than for members. That's because members pay annual subscriptions.

So if you are a falang in Thailand, how much tax have you paid compared to a Thai national?

When it comes to the crunch, if you think the green fees for a visitor at a golf club are too steep or poor value, you walk away.

It baffles me why the pissers and moaners on TV can't grasp the same principle applies to dual pricing in Thailand.

It's also somewhat pathetic when it's 100 baht versus 200 baht - if that signals impending bankruptcy, you shouldn't be here.

Rant over.

Below is based on information extracted from the Thailand Revenue Department website; http://www.rd.go.th/publish/24602.0.html 2014 Report, table on p. 94:-

Average (Personal Income Tax [PIT] + VAT) per person = 10,620 + 4,194 = 14,814 Baht.

(Assuming a Thailand population of 67,000,000)

Since the only one of those I pay on a regular basis is VAT, this equates to a VAT-liable annual spend of 14,814 / 7% = 211,628 Baht, i.e. if I spend more than 211,628 Baht p.a. on VAT-liable goods & services, I meet the average (PIT + VAT) tax payment per person in Thailand.

Without checking all my bills for VAT content, I reckon I pay quite a bit more than the average annual payment of (VAT + PIT) and therefore pay my way taxwise as a retired, non-working foreigner living in Thailand.

Why is only INCOME tax considered relevant when discussing this subject? The Thai Revenue Dept. receives 2.5x as much from VAT as it does from PIT.

As for the golf club analogy, how would someone feel if they'd paid their annual subs. (tax) and were then barred from the golf course because they weren't of the local nationality?

I pay a ton of personal income tax and VAT and airport taxes. Fortunately I make enough money that I don't care if I get charged 100 or 200 baht extra to enter a temple..etc

[bazza40]

I can understand people noticing dual pricing. What I can't understand is why they get their knickers in such a twist about it.

If you go to just about any golf club in the world, the price for visitors is always more than for members. That's because members pay annual subscriptions.

So if you are a falang in Thailand, how much tax have you paid compared to a Thai national?

When it comes to the crunch, if you think the green fees for a visitor at a golf club are too steep or poor value, you walk away.

It baffles me why the pissers and moaners on TV can't grasp the same principle applies to dual pricing in Thailand.

It's also somewhat pathetic when it's 100 baht versus 200 baht - if that signals impending bankruptcy, you shouldn't be here.

Rant over.

Below is based on information extracted from the Thailand Revenue Department website; http://www.rd.go.th/publish/24602.0.html 2014 Report, table on p. 94:-

Average (Personal Income Tax [PIT] + VAT) per person = 10,620 + 4,194 = 14,814 Baht.

(Assuming a Thailand population of 67,000,000)

Since the only one of those I pay on a regular basis is VAT, this equates to a VAT-liable annual spend of 14,814 / 7% = 211,628 Baht, i.e. if I spend more than 211,628 Baht p.a. on VAT-liable goods & services, I meet the average (PIT + VAT) tax payment per person in Thailand.

Without checking all my bills for VAT content, I reckon I pay quite a bit more than the average annual payment of (VAT + PIT) and therefore pay my way taxwise as a retired, non-working foreigner living in Thailand.

Why is only INCOME tax considered relevant when discussing this subject? The Thai Revenue Dept. receives 2.5x as much from VAT as it does from PIT.

As for the golf club analogy, how would someone feel if they'd paid their annual subs. (tax) and were then barred from the golf course because they weren't of the local nationality?

So you've lived here all your life, have you? That's the only way you can compare yourself to a Thai national. Doesn't matter if it's VAT or PIT.

The only reason a member gets barred from most golf courses is disciplinary. Nothing to do with race. Although that icon of American golf, Augusta, did take its time admitting an African-American to membership.

[bazza40]

I can understand people noticing dual pricing. What I can't understand is why they get their knickers in such a twist about it.

If you go to just about any golf club in the world, the price for visitors is always more than for members. That's because members pay annual subscriptions.

So if you are a falang in Thailand, how much tax have you paid compared to a Thai national?

When it comes to the crunch, if you think the green fees for a visitor at a golf club are too steep or poor value, you walk away.

It baffles me why the pissers and moaners on TV can't grasp the same principle applies to dual pricing in Thailand.

It's also somewhat pathetic when it's 100 baht versus 200 baht - if that signals impending bankruptcy, you shouldn't be here.

Rant over.

Some pissers and moaners just dont like pure chuffin racism

Some pissers actually in the end can make a difference but then again this pisser is possibly wasting his time on trying to convince those with a paucity of any understanding of the issues involved in dual pricing that not only is it blatantly unfair it is actual bigoted and pure RACISM

Ah, the racism card. Odd how it's usually played when the dealer has run out of any other form of rational argument. Of course, you are not racist yourself, are you?

[Johnniey]

Whilst farang are often charged more than Thais, there are many things that work in our favour. I am let off by traffic police all the time, for example, especially with my little one in the car. I can get discount that Thais wouldn't have the nerve to ask for, and better service in shops. Bank workers go out of their way to help me. I don't lose face very easily, which enables me to get away with a lot more than my Thai brothers and sisters.

People remember me which is an advantage. Thai people are not all after money(anymore than foreigners) and the longer I live out of Bangkok/tourist areas, I realize this.

I hate to hear the farang saying, "they can't do this to me, do you know what would happen in United Farangland if they did this?". Quite simply, I have started a new life in a country, which will never accept me as one of them, even if I pass a degree in Thai, become a monk, or have GP's daughter as a "mia noi".

I have to chill out and adjust certain ideas and attitudes. I must remember that this is not my home country, and therefore has different ways of doing things. Christ, that is one of the reasons I love it here. I used to want them to keep doing the things I liked and stop doing the things I didn't like. What a shitty attitude!

Realize what I can change and what I can't. Don't let the things that you can't get on top of you, they're not worth it. Once you have done this, weigh up the pros and cons of living in a new land and decide if it is for me or not. I have not been sentenced to live in Thailand, it is my choice.

Some things like double pricing are the Thai way an I sometimes think I should simply respect their decision - when I do this I usually see that they have a valid reason for doing something that thought 'racist' or unfair.

It's my fear of being take advantage of that I have to address. "can't have them Thais getting the better of ME, the almighty!

I know that if I want to become a Thai citizen I can, but when I weigh up all the pros and cons, I would rather keep my British passport.

Once you've seen one temple, you've seen them all anyway.

[KMartinHandyman]

Has anybody tryed this: .. farang goes with a group .. 2 or more people ..all thai buy their thai-price ticket.. give then 1 ticket to the farang and buy then 1 more thai-ticket?

Won't work as the ticket taker will see you're not Thai is my opinion

[hobobo]

Has anybody tryed this: .. farang goes with a group .. 2 or more people ..all thai buy their thai-price ticket.. give then 1 ticket to the farang and buy then 1 more thai-ticket?

I was told that the Vikings only knew rape and pillage, but you, realviking48, have more. Good on you, mate!

[petedk]

I can understand people noticing dual pricing. What I can't understand is why they get their knickers in such a twist about it.

If you go to just about any golf club in the world, the price for visitors is always more than for members. That's because members pay annual subscriptions.

So if you are a falang in Thailand, how much tax have you paid compared to a Thai national?

When it comes to the crunch, if you think the green fees for a visitor at a golf club are too steep or poor value, you walk away.

It baffles me why the pissers and moaners on TV can't grasp the same principle applies to dual pricing in Thailand.

It's also somewhat pathetic when it's 100 baht versus 200 baht - if that signals impending bankruptcy, you shouldn't be here.

Rant over.

I have paid a lot of tax in Thailand in the years I have lived here.

You are right...100 baht won't make me bankrupt BUT if everyone charges double (some places 10 times the Thai price) as much for their products and services, then it will begin to hurt.

As I mentioned in another post more and more Thais are beginning to jump on the bandwagon and charge farangs more. Yes, we can walk out of the shop, refuse to go into the park, refuse a taxi ride, choose a different hospital, buy a different house and so on. YesI even had a house price jump nearly 80% when they found out I was farang.

It shouldn't be like that just because of the colour of our skin.!

Edited February 24, 2016 by petedk

[recycler]

Let's all move to a decent country!

[recycler]

I can understand people noticing dual pricing. What I can't understand is why they get their knickers in such a twist about it.

If you go to just about any golf club in the world, the price for visitors is always more than for members. That's because members pay annual subscriptions.

So if you are a falang in Thailand, how much tax have you paid compared to a Thai national?

When it comes to the crunch, if you think the green fees for a visitor at a golf club are too steep or poor value, you walk away.

It baffles me why the pissers and moaners on TV can't grasp the same principle applies to dual pricing in Thailand.

It's also somewhat pathetic when it's 100 baht versus 200 baht - if that signals impending bankruptcy, you shouldn't be here.

Rant over.

I have paid a lot of tax in Thailand in the years I have lived here.

You are right...100 baht won't make me bankrupt BUT if everyone charges double (some places 10 times the Thai price) as much for their products and services, then it will begin to hurt.

As I mentioned in another post more and more Thais are beginning to jump on the bandwagon and charge farangs more. Yes, we can walk out of the shop, refuse to go into the park, refuse a taxi ride, choose a different hospital, buy a different house and so on. YesI even had a house price jump nearly 80% when they found out I was farang.

It shouldn't be like that just because of the colour of our skin.!

It's extremely annoying when you have to pay the farang rate at government hospitals, attractions or parks etc. certainly when you can be sure you are by far the biggest tax payer in 100 meters distance...

[dandsi]

Yes, that is just how I see it

[federico]

I was wondering: is there dual price for driving license ?

[Thunderbirds20]

Sounds like bovine doodoo to me. The ticket seller probably made that up on her own and then pocketed the extra cash.

I went to the hospital in Banglamung this morning. They call you up in groups of 5. My name was the first called, and I arrived at the counter first, but she processed the four Thais before me, ..so I had to wait for the four of them to see the doctor before I could! That kind of stuff makes my blood boil.

[1BADDAT]

I was wondering: is there dual price for driving license ?

only if you aren't really a resident and have to pay a little under the table. This happened to me and I was totally fine with it at the time.

[Johnniey]

I was wondering: is there dual price for driving license ?

only if you aren't really a resident and have to pay a little under the table. This happened to me and I was totally fine with it at the time.

You are a corrupt criminal, don't try to make light of it.

[1BADDAT]

I was wondering: is there dual price for driving license ?

only if you aren't really a resident and have to pay a little under the table. This happened to me and I was totally fine with it at the time.

You are a corrupt criminal, don't try to make light of it.

I don't even understand what you are trying to say. A corrupt criminal? Am I in a position of authority? How can I be corrupt as a tourist at the time?

[Lannig]

No one has discussed by how much farangs can be overcharged yet.

Sometimes it gets plain ridiculous.

I mean, paying 100B vs. 50B for thais? even 500B instead of 200B? I'm not happy but I can get over it.

But how about being asked 500B compared to 30B for thais as I recall in a national park? pretty damn ignominious I'd say.

[bbbbooboo]

Simple really......vote with your feet