Teaching in Chiang Mai without a TESOL etc

[coincambodia]

Hello everyone. I am planning a trip to Chiang Mai from Cambodia and wanted to know how difficult it is to obtain a teaching position without "certificates." I have a BS in MIS and 6 years experience teaching in Cambodia.

I have a Bitcoin-themed cafe in Phnom Penh and a nascent pepper business that I'll be working on expanding from Thailand. I'm looking forward to getting plugged in with other entrepreneurs in Chiang Mai but I would prefer to have some income along the way. I'd love some insight from other teachers.

Please give me feedback, good or bad. I'm looking forward to a change of scenery. Thanks!

[mesquite]

Once again, I get to be the first!

"Do you have a work permit"?

[TheSiemReaper]

Your best bet is do a CELTA here in Thailand before you look for work. They're pretty cheap here and once you're done; you're a graduate with the required paperwork - which means you can look for jobs at any school.

[anto]

You have a degree plus teaching experience .All you need now is TEFL .Cert that looks genuine .

[dru2]

No Anto - he needs one that IS genuine. Do the morally correct thing for once.

[Loaded]

Your best bet is do a CELTA here in Thailand before you look for work. They're pretty cheap here and once you're done; you're a graduate with the required paperwork - which means you can look for jobs at any school.

TA in CELTA stands for Teaching Adults. Most teaching in Thailand is in formal schools teaching children. The CELTA is a highly respected training course and makes you a very effective language school teacher. It's also the most recognizable certificate if you wish to travel to other parts of the world to teach Adults.

OP

With 6 years of teaching experience under your belt, you won't need a TEFL/CELTA/TESOL certificate to find work. Most schools are actively looking for teachers now ready for the start of the academic year in May. You need to be here though and visit schools.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Loaded

[coincambodia]

These are great comments, thanks a lot.

I was considering doing a CELTA course so if anyone wants to solicit me for a program then please send me a message. I realize I could learn a lot from it but I'm an excellent teacher by now so it would merely be an expensive formality.

I'm more focused on my businesses at the moment so is anyone able to get away with teaching hourly or doing private classes? Are the schools just as zealous for certs with part-timers/hourly?

[fey]

budding businesses, skint, sounds a bit dodgy.

[CNXBKKMAN]

If you want to teach English you can especially if you are native speaker and you are already experienced. The choice is do you want to do it legally or not. If you are going to do it part time you may have no choice but to be non legit. Getting your other businesses up and running may require paperwork, permits and visas that you won't be able to get at the begining even if you wanted them. I would say go for it and good luck. The worst that can happen is you get caught (unlikely) fined and have to leave the country and go back to Cambodia, Indonesia, Sri Lanka, India or anywhere else that might be good for a pepper business.

He who dares wins....Rodney, as they say in the Uk.

[coincambodia]

budding businesses, skint, sounds a bit dodgy.

Haha, yes. It starts with innocent questions about part-time work and then BAM I've got you by the balls.

This is me:

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/post-weekend/superbrew-java-nepal-us

https://www.facebook.com/coincafecambodia

I recently tried a little hiatus to Vietnam that fell flat. Hoping CM will be a different experience. I realize you have to be on the ground in a place to make any kind of progress but I really want to hit the ground running. Also eager to get involved with the "start-up scene" or whatever you have going on there that the internet seems so excited about. I made a brief trip to CM many years ago and trained Muoy Thai (surprise) but I didn't get out much. I'm of a different mind now and want to work hard. Happy to exchange feedback on Cambodia, perhaps in a different thread or pm, if anyone is interested. Cheers!

[Slip]

Some shonky advice on here as normal. Loaded is right- as long as you have a degree and are a native speaker, you will not need any further pieces of paper referring to TEFL/ TESOL/ TOEIC/ and so on, in order to work legally here.

[CNXBKKMAN]

There are a lot of digital nomads in CM. It may even be one of the global hotspots for them but I am sure you know that already. Have a look on YouTube. Many of them are serious about starting businesses, teaming up with others. In years gone by they would have just been called entrepreneurs.

[dru2]

Some shonky advice on here as normal. Loaded is right- as long as you have a degree and are a native speaker, you will not need any further pieces of paper referring to TEFL/ TESOL/ TOEIC/ and so on, in order to work legally here.

But you will need a work permit to work legally...

[Compo]

OP, you need to be a bit guarded.

There are several ( adjective self censored ) on here who would happily report another westerner for visa / work permit violations, even though it would have no bearing or benefit whatsoever on their life.

I guess they get some sort of kick from the righteous spite and malice or something.

Very sad.

I had one member here flood one of my email addresses with spam because he didn't like my views.

He boasted about it to a mutual acquaintance.

Pretty sick really.

Good luck with finding your niche.

[puukao]

do you care if the kids learn the right way, or do you just want money? TESOL exists for a reason. not the best, but clearly a good starting point.

how can you come to LOS to only worry about money and not care the kids get the best education???!!!

i could get a degree in English, teach in your home country first, get TESOL, work with other teachers and give the kids a chance!!!

bad teachers = kids who are doomed.

don't doom the kids!!!!

[landtrout]

OP, you need to be a bit guarded.

There are several ( adjective self censored ) on here who would happily report another westerner for visa / work permit violations, even though it would have no bearing or benefit whatsoever on their life.

I guess they get some sort of kick from the righteous spite and malice or something.

Very sad.

I had one member here flood one of my email addresses with spam because he didn't like my views.

He boasted about it to a mutual acquaintance.

Pretty sick really.

Good luck with finding your niche.

I've been failing for the past ten minutes or so to come up with any adjective that could possibly be slipped inside of your parentheses in order to make plausible sense of your second sentence.

Is it possible that instead of "(adjective self censored)", you meant to write "(plural noun self censored)"?

Since it seems that the OP has an interest in helping those in need of improving their basic language skills, maybe he'd be open to a barter arrangement? He could teach you the difference between nouns and adjectives, and in exchange I'm sure that he could probably use some help splitting his coconuts, milking his yaks and buttering his "bulletproof" coffee.

Needless to say, both of you would require a work permit in order to engage legally in such an enterprise within the borders of Thailand, but then..... you knew that.

Edited February 23, 2016 by landtrout

[smotherb]

Once again, I get to be the first!

"Do you have a work permit"?

Duh, he's in Cambodia, planning a trip to CM, and wants to know if he can work as a teacher. Why would you expect him to have a work permit? How many currently employed NES teachers do not have a work permit?

[mesquite]

Once again, I get to be the first!

"Do you have a work permit"?

Duh, he's in Cambodia, planning a trip to CM, and wants to know if he can work as a teacher. Why would you expect him to have a work permit? How many currently employed NES teachers do not have a work permit?

[smotherb]

do you care if the kids learn the right way, or do you just want money? TESOL exists for a reason. not the best, but clearly a good starting point.

how can you come to LOS to only worry about money and not care the kids get the best education???!!!

i could get a degree in English, teach in your home country first, get TESOL, work with other teachers and give the kids a chance!!!

bad teachers = kids who are doomed.

don't doom the kids!!!!

Oh, omniscient one, what pray tell is the right way for kids to learn?

Have you ever considered the reason why so many NES teachers employed in Thailand are not qualified to teach in their own countries? Do you think the Thais are simply unaware of this fact? I doubt it, more likely they believe some English is better than none?

I’ll make no judgement on your written English, but you assume far too much—you say, he thinks only of money and not the kids and he will be a bad teacher and doom the kids. The fact you say, “ . . . i could get a degree in English, teach in your home country first, get TESOL, work with other teachers and give the kids a chance . . .” is nothing but conjecture.

He appears to write well, says he has six years teaching experience and a degree. Sounds to me he is more qualified than most NES teachers currently employed in Thailand. I’ll wager many of these unqualified NES teachers have made a difference, do care about the kids and are teaching them English.

[1FinickyOne]

I think once you are in CM things will happen for you - assuming all work and business permits are in place, I think there is plenty of room for a hard working entrepreneur... Even where I am, out in the countryside, there is increasing demand for English schooling on an afternoon, after school basis and I think there are some teachers doing quite well with this.

And the coffee sounds great. There is some great coffee grown in the area, Chiang Rai in particular... It sounds like you have a bright future - but as a retired businessman, best advice is to avoid partners - always sounds great at first to share the enthusiasm but things happen - unexpected things and these can never fully be accounted for in partnership agreements...

best of luck to you - and I look forward to one day having one of your monster coffees...

[coincambodia]

This thread has been very valuable. It's really giving me a sense of how things work there, so thanks everyone.

Kenk, that's interesting what you say about partners because I could probably kill for one right now in Cambodia. Thanks for the warning. Also, you can make bulletproof coffee yourself. Lots of info online. I recently made this advertisement: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2dl1z7q&s=9

[gandalf12]

Why not have a word with your Embassy Commercial Division? They should be able to give you some good advice

[spectrumisgreen]

These are great comments, thanks a lot.

I was considering doing a CELTA course so if anyone wants to solicit me for a program then please send me a message. I realize I could learn a lot from it but I'm an excellent teacher by now so it would merely be an expensive formality.

I'm more focused on my businesses at the moment so is anyone able to get away with teaching hourly or doing private classes? Are the schools just as zealous for certs with part-timers/hourly?

Seems to me the Thai governement/ Ministry of Education, are getting stricter on foreign teacher requirements to do the job, part or full-time, online, private or whatever.. whilst putting less and less effort and resources (money!!) into their children's education. Hence, it's never a good idea to try to 'work under the radar' and 'get away with it', so to speak, whilst staying in Thailand. Getting caught may well mean getting deported and not being allowed back!... worse if they really want to throw the book at you!! I personally haven't done the CELTA yet, as I've never needed it for any position I've gone for (I have full 120 hour TESOL [TEFL/TESL] cert, which means it wasn't done online and also has teaching practice hours built in, a pre-requisite many places, but even that hasn't always been necessary previously in Thailand.. they always just wanted to see something with the word 'Degree' on it!) but those educators whom I know have completed the CELTA course all say how much they learned from it. Meaning, it wouldn't be the expensive formality you may think, as it is:

1) What is required by genuine 'international' (and so better paying!) schools and centres, whichever country, and 2) It WILL improve your teaching skills however good you already believe yourself to be.

Again, it obviously follows that if you prove yourself to a new company, you get kept on beyond the contract remit, you can get promotions, pay-rises etc.

Note, I wouldn't go for a Thai public school post unless you just want to keep yourself 'busy', 'keep ticking over' as it were, as the pay remains very low, conditions aren't always the best (including often being offered just 11 months, not 12 months, contracts, meaning you're off in April when the Thai teachers are, but WON'T get paid for it!!), and this 'interim' government is also actually looking to phase-out many foreign English teachers, instead 'training up' their own to do the job better. This intent on the government's part, actually amounts to an unrealstic scenario but clearly doesn't bode well for either their own childrens' English language learning, or for foreign teachers in Thailand, and might just explain why I'm actually sending this post from China, where I've just started my new teaching job!!! (Also, nice one.. not.. the British Council, for accepting the govt dosh to do this English training for Thais, and so help put a lot of my old colleagues jobs even further at risk!!!).

Anyway, good luck, and I genuinely hope you find what you are looking for (in your business or your teaching!)...

Edited February 24, 2016 by spectrumisgreen

[Compo]

OP, you need to be a bit guarded.

There are several ( adjective self censored ) on here who would happily report another westerner for visa / work permit violations, even though it would have no bearing or benefit whatsoever on their life.

I guess they get some sort of kick from the righteous spite and malice or something.

Very sad.

I had one member here flood one of my email addresses with spam because he didn't like my views.

He boasted about it to a mutual acquaintance.

Pretty sick really.

Good luck with finding your niche.

I've been failing for the past ten minutes or so to come up with any adjective that could possibly be slipped inside of your parentheses in order to make plausible sense of your second sentence.

Is it possible that instead of "(adjective self censored)", you meant to write "(plural noun self censored)"?

Since it seems that the OP has an interest in helping those in need of improving their basic language skills, maybe he'd be open to a barter arrangement? He could teach you the difference between nouns and adjectives, and in exchange I'm sure that he could probably use some help splitting his coconuts, milking his yaks and buttering his "bulletproof" coffee.

Needless to say, both of you would require a work permit in order to engage legally in such an enterprise within the borders of Thailand, but then..... you knew that.

How very droll....

You well illustrate my point.

[smotherb]

OP, you need to be a bit guarded.

There are several ( adjective self censored ) on here who would happily report another westerner for visa / work permit violations, even though it would have no bearing or benefit whatsoever on their life.

I guess they get some sort of kick from the righteous spite and malice or something.

Very sad.

I had one member here flood one of my email addresses with spam because he didn't like my views.

He boasted about it to a mutual acquaintance.

Pretty sick really.

Good luck with finding your niche.

I've been failing for the past ten minutes or so to come up with any adjective that could possibly be slipped inside of your parentheses in order to make plausible sense of your second sentence.

Is it possible that instead of "(adjective self censored)", you meant to write "(plural noun self censored)"?

Since it seems that the OP has an interest in helping those in need of improving their basic language skills, maybe he'd be open to a barter arrangement? He could teach you the difference between nouns and adjectives, and in exchange I'm sure that he could probably use some help splitting his coconuts, milking his yaks and buttering his "bulletproof" coffee.

Needless to say, both of you would require a work permit in order to engage legally in such an enterprise within the borders of Thailand, but then..... you knew that.

How very droll....

You well illustrate my point.

Compo, now you have me trying to figure out how landtrout's post well illustrates your post. Could you enlighten me?

[connda]

Word of advice: Don't. Now that you've been warned, don't whine if you get 'popped'.

[smotherb]

Once again, I get to be the first!

"Do you have a work permit"?

Duh, he's in Cambodia, planning a trip to CM, and wants to know if he can work as a teacher. Why would you expect him to have a work permit? How many currently employed NES teachers do not have a work permit?

My, what an eloquent retort. I see you put as much thought into that as in your original post.

[eaglesflight]

These are great comments, thanks a lot.

I was considering doing a CELTA course so if anyone wants to solicit me for a program then please send me a message. I realize I could learn a lot from it but I'm an excellent teacher by now so it would merely be an expensive formality.

I'm more focused on my businesses at the moment so is anyone able to get away with teaching hourly or doing private classes? Are the schools just as zealous for certs with part-timers/hourly?

Seems to me the Thai governement/ Ministry of Education, are getting stricter on foreign teacher requirements to do the job, part or full-time, online, private or whatever.. whilst putting less and less effort and resources (money!!) into their children's education. Hence, it's never a good idea to try to 'work under the radar' and 'get away with it', so to speak, whilst staying in Thailand. Getting caught may well mean getting deported and not being allowed back!... worse if they really want to throw the book at you!! I personally haven't done the CELTA yet, as I've never needed it for any position I've gone for (I have full 120 hour TESOL [TEFL/TESL] cert, which means it wasn't done online and also has teaching practice hours built in, a pre-requisite many places, but even that hasn't always been necessary previously in Thailand.. they always just wanted to see something with the word 'Degree' on it!) but those educators whom I know have completed the CELTA course all say how much they learned from it. Meaning, it wouldn't be the expensive formality you may think, as it is:

1) What is required by genuine 'international' (and so better paying!) schools and centres, whichever country, and 2) It WILL improve your teaching skills however good you already believe yourself to be.

Again, it obviously follows that if you prove yourself to a new company, you get kept on beyond the contract remit, you can get promotions, pay-rises etc.

Note, I wouldn't go for a Thai public school post unless you just want to keep yourself 'busy', 'keep ticking over' as it were, as the pay remains very low, conditions aren't always the best (including often being offered just 11 months, not 12 months, contracts, meaning you're off in April when the Thai teachers are, but WON'T get paid for it!!), and this 'interim' government is also actually looking to phase-out many foreign English teachers, instead 'training up' their own to do the job better. This intent on the government's part, actually amounts to an unrealstic scenario but clearly doesn't bode well for either their own childrens' English language learning, or for foreign teachers in Thailand, and might just explain why I'm actually sending this post from China, where I've just started my new teaching job!!! (Also, nice one.. not.. the British Council, for accepting the govt dosh to do this English training for Thais, and so help put a lot of my old colleagues jobs even further at risk!!!).

Anyway, good luck, and I genuinely hope you find what you are looking for (in your business or your teaching!)...

As far as I know, international schools expect proper educational qualifications, i.e. a B.Ed and/or other evidence that you are a fully qualified teacher in your home country (a PGCE from the UK for example), not some certificate you can gain in a few weeks.

Edited February 26, 2016 by eaglesflight