'NO SMOKING, NO INDIA': Casual racism in Thailand

[Saladin]

I am an Australian who lived in London in 1960 when it was usual to find ads for Rooms To Let that said 'No Blacks' and many that said 'No Blacks or Australians'.

[Bluespunk]

I am an Australian who lived in London in 1960 when it was usual to find ads for Rooms To Let that said 'No Blacks' and many that said 'No Blacks or Australians'.

In the 60s it was no blacks, no dogs, no Irish.

The target changes but the prejudice never does.

[TheCruncher]

I'll answer when you remove

"which happens with a certain group of people more than with others, "

From the question

Why should I remove that?

Is it now also racist to ACKNOWLEDGE that Indians have a much higher rate of occupying an apartment with multiple people, and the chance that they leave the property behind with an awful odor due to the national dish they use to cook, is much bigger as well?

Ever heard about hair splitting?

[jippytum]

The way I look at it, it's my Condo and I set the ground rules, .....

So, if that's what that owner's preference is, that's fine by me....

Condo agents rented out my friend's condo to Indians nice people but he had to redecorate to get rid of the curry aroma and you can still smell it .He now instructs 'No Indians'

[Bluespunk]

I'll answer when you remove

"which happens with a certain group of people more than with others, "

From the question

Why should I remove that?

Is it now also racist to ACKNOWLEDGE that Indians have a much higher rate of occupying an apartment with multiple people, and the chance that they leave the property behind with an awful odor due to the national dish they use to cook, is much bigger as well?

Ever heard about hair splitting?

Acknowledge? Hmm, no not the right word at all. You can claim that and yes that is racist.

Yes I have heard of hair sitting. Something racists rarely bother with. Give them their due, hate tends to be all encompassing.

[Asheron]

I'll answer when you remove

"which happens with a certain group of people more than with others, "

From the question

Why should I remove that?

Is it now also racist to ACKNOWLEDGE that Indians have a much higher rate of occupying an apartment with multiple people, and the chance that they leave the property behind with an awful odor due to the national dish they use to cook, is much bigger as well?

Ever heard about hair splitting?

Acknowledge? Hmm, no not the right word at all. You can claim that and yes that is racist.

Yes I have heard of hair sitting. Something racists rarely bother with. Give them their due, hate tends to be all encompassing.

And i heard people who call other people, entirely baselessly, for racists like children in a special way. But they rarely bother to acknowledge that.

[copa8]

Casual might be better than overt...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3460293/White-supremacist-59-attacked-18-year-old-Chinese-girl-hatchet-act-ethnic-cleansing.html

[scorecard]

The way I look at it, it's my Condo and I set the ground rules, .....

So, if that's what that owner's preference is, that's fine by me....

Rightly or wrongly, if an owner (house, condo etc.,) has had more than one bad experience with a certain group, then IMHO it seems fairly normal that that owner would start to have a negative attitude to that certain group.

Right, wrong, or simply human nature?

[Bluespunk]

I'll answer when you remove

"which happens with a certain group of people more than with others, "

From the question

Why should I remove that?

Is it now also racist to ACKNOWLEDGE that Indians have a much higher rate of occupying an apartment with multiple people, and the chance that they leave the property behind with an awful odor due to the national dish they use to cook, is much bigger as well?

Ever heard about hair splitting?

Acknowledge? Hmm, no not the right word at all. You can claim that and yes that is racist.

Yes I have heard of hair sitting. Something racists rarely bother with. Give them their due, hate tends to be all encompassing.

And i heard people who call other people, entirely baselessly, for racists like children in a special way. But they rarely bother to acknowledge that.

Yeah right, sure you have.

Sigh.

[Nicolas32]

Yeah their is casual racism in Thailand ..There was a woman staying next door to me never done a day work in her entire life always complain about me or my girlfriend .. smoking it was like being in a prison in my room with my Burmese girlfriend .. Anyway got to the point where this woman was complain any other different day to the staff at the place where am stay that i deiced to flight back anyway after banging the wall and making so much noises she lost face and move out .. so people if people make you feel unconformable flight back and things will happen trust me it work for me ?

[cyberfarang]

I have always been a stickler for getting my paperwork in order and go to great lengths in doing so. This week my two 5 year Thai driving license were due, car and motorbike. Last Monday began to do all the paperwork and forms required. Tuesday went and applied for a residency certificate and went for the medical. Yesterday went and collected my residency certificate. Today went to the licensing centre that is in the provinces to apply for my 2 driving licenses. Had god knows how many photocopies, photos and forms, there were stacks of them. Went in was told to place all my paperwork in a tray. 1 and a half hours later was called over to the desk by a government officer. He looked through everything and I smiled thinking I know it’s all perfect, signed and dated. Then he decided to make me sign and date the same paperwork all over again. Luckily I’m a quick signer. Although having 2 copies of everything he made me go downstairs and photocopy 5 more pages of the same stuff placing them with the copies I all ready brought with me. Then he ripped out my 90 day receipt from my passport and made me do 2 copies of that. Still desperate to find something wrong the man asked; how long have I been in Thailand? I said; 15 years. But your passport is only 4 years old he said. I know, my last passport expired 4 years ago, that’s my latest passport. You go and bring me your old passport he said. Then it came to a point that I had nothing to lose, it seemed that man was determined I wasn’t getting my licenses today. I said firmly, don’t have my old passport; what do you want me to do? I have brought you everything required in perfect order. Then he said, OK, I went to get my photo taken, licenses issued, paid the money, no receipts given, and off I went completely stressed out and thinking, the bustards.

I know many Thais that use that licensing centre and no problems, but that officer made me dance, juggle and jump through hoops for him today. And that to me has to be a form of racism, he did not like the Farlang having a Thai driving license and when it comes to dealing with government departments and essential services I have experienced similar before.

[Jingthing]

First they came for the Indians ...

[xen]

There are some appartments around BKK that are almost exclusively Indian, Bangladeshi , Pakistani or Nepalese . That is the clientèle they cater for. There was one we looked at a few years ago and it was dirty, expensive for what it was and reeked of cooking. Plus my gf was ogled by the guests and she did not feel safe . We went to one a few doors up and took that and stayed 5 years and all the indians that came to these apartments were directed to that one up the road. Some came back and said it wasn't suitable so there are some picky indians too. Then there was one in the next soi that was almost exclusively Sikh and that was the opposite- very clean and well kept from the outside at least.

[arunsakda]

I have always been a stickler for getting my paperwork in order and go to great lengths in doing so. This week my two 5 year Thai driving license were due, car and motorbike. Last Monday began to do all the paperwork and forms required. Tuesday went and applied for a residency certificate and went for the medical. Yesterday went and collected my residency certificate. Today went to the licensing centre that is in the provinces to apply for my 2 driving licenses. Had god knows how many photocopies, photos and forms, there were stacks of them. Went in was told to place all my paperwork in a tray. 1 and a half hours later was called over to the desk by a government officer. He looked through everything and I smiled thinking I know it’s all perfect, signed and dated. Then he decided to make me sign and date the same paperwork all over again. Luckily I’m a quick signer. Although having 2 copies of everything he made me go downstairs and photocopy 5 more pages of the same stuff placing them with the copies I all ready brought with me. Then he ripped out my 90 day receipt from my passport and made me do 2 copies of that. Still desperate to find something wrong the man asked; how long have I been in Thailand? I said; 15 years. But your passport is only 4 years old he said. I know, my last passport expired 4 years ago, that’s my latest passport. You go and bring me your old passport he said. Then it came to a point that I had nothing to lose, it seemed that man was determined I wasn’t getting my licenses today. I said firmly, don’t have my old passport; what do you want me to do? I have brought you everything required in perfect order. Then he said, OK, I went to get my photo taken, licenses issued, paid the money, no receipts given, and off I went completely stressed out and thinking, the bustards.

I know many Thais that use that licensing centre and no problems, but that officer made me dance, juggle and jump through hoops for him today. And that to me has to be a form of racism, he did not like the Farlang having a Thai driving license and when it comes to dealing with government departments and essential services I have experienced similar before.

I wonder if they actually even save all these photocopies at Banks and Govt. Offices in files after making me run around like a circus chimp. L

[spidermike007]

I can understand why some Thai's may get put off by the fact that some Indian people do not like to use deodorant. But, that is about it. The vast majority of Indians possess intelligence and creativity and business acumen that most Thais can only dream about having. They are so superior on so many levels, it is almost unfathomable. Indians have been winning Nobel Peace prizes for almost as long as that institution has been in existence, perhaps starting with the brilliant poet Rabindranath Tagore, back in 1913. Then C.V. Raman in 1930 for his cutting edge Physics discoveries. The Amartya Sen in 1998 for his study of economics, and then Kailash Satharthi for his promotion of peace initiatives and the rights of children to have an education. They you have a world class film industry, that creates more films each year than Hollywood. They have a world class tradition of literature, poetry, and culture. Indians have accomplished so much, in such a relatively short period of time, in the fields of Math, Science, Medicine, Technology, etc. The Indian nation has contributed so many brilliant scientists, and doctors to the world at large. How many of those brilliant minds who are improving the world come from Thailand? How many? India was one of the richest countries in the world until the Dutch, and then the British started plundering the country for four centuries, reducing it to one of the poorest countries in the world. That was not of their own making. Their educational system was one of the best in the world, before the British systematically dismantled it over the course of a century, in an effort to dumb down the population. The fact that they have not only been able to recover, but to become one of the world's largest economies, and intellectually productive nations, says alot. There is no yardstick by which the Thai people can even begin to compare themselves to the Indian people, who are vastly superior on so many levels. The same could be said about the Chinese people, especially when it comes to what they have accomplished in terms of productivity and education. Both the Chinese and the Indian educational standards are so much higher, and both nations realize the value of education and put alot of resources into improving it, unlike the Thais, who have failed dismally, when it comes to education their people. Also, both nations overseas, her tutors to make sure their children are outstanding, when it comes to being a student. How many Thais take education that seriously? The Indian nation and it's people have accomplished so much more, and been able to contribute to the world on a level the Thai people could not even consider, nor dream about. This tremendous lack of accomplishment on the world stage, should make any Thai person quite full of humility. But, due to blind nationalism, they can be quite the opposite. Arrogance is not always a bad thing, when it is backed up with substance. But, arrogance when it is not based on anything except political dribble, hyperbole, and false nationalism, is meaningless and an impediment to personal growth. Any Thai landlord should consider themselves honored to have an Indian tenant. Maybe, they could even learn something from them.

The level of ignorance that would lead to a statement like this, about not renting to Indians just boggles the mind. The small mindedness that some Thai people have is staggering. Talk about not knowing your place in the grand scheme of things. In many countries behavior like this would be rewarded with sanctions. Here, it is normal. Even the government commits these kinds of racist, nationalistic acts regularly. Shame on them for being so small minded.

The Thais have alot of lovely qualities. But, their racism and bigotry, and closed mindedness when it comes to the outside world is positively a detriment to Thai society, on so many levels. It really holds them back, as a nation. Surely, there must be a percentage of the population that does not buy into the nonsense. But, far too many do. It is unjustifiable on every level.

And what does Nobel prizes have anything to do with a condo smelling like shit after they move out?

A lot. More than likely it has little to do with a different choice of spices that the Indian people use in cooking. And it probably has alot to do with a darker skin color, and the associations the Thai people make with that dark skin. And the feeling of superiority that comes with those false and ignorant notions and prejudices. And my rant was meant to reflect the possibility that most Thai people have absolutely no business deluding themselves into a false sense of superiority over this vastly superior nation (at least on many levels), and their vastly more accomplished people, who have far finer education, speak far better english, and are far more aware of the world at large, the sciences, math, arts, culture, literature, theatre, international film, dance, etc, etc.

Perhaps some of this false pride and nationalism is the result of 80 years of indoctrination, starting with one of the most ignorant men in worldwide politics in the past century, Field Marshal Plank Phibunsongkhram, otherwise known as Phibun, who assumed leadership of Thailand in the 1930's, and began the dangerous policy of extreme nationalism.

[mrrizzla]

I wonder if this condo owner thinks the Buddha was Thai.....

[JHolmesJr]

This sort of cultural bias seems to matter most at the lower end of the rent chain…as you go higher and higher, the bias vanishes as the quality of tenants seems to improve.

[ttthailand]

You see it everywhere here. Even foreigner places get into the game with the "Japanese only" signs.

[roo860]

I have always been a stickler for getting my paperwork in order and go to great lengths in doing so. This week my two 5 year Thai driving license were due, car and motorbike. Last Monday began to do all the paperwork and forms required. Tuesday went and applied for a residency certificate and went for the medical. Yesterday went and collected my residency certificate. Today went to the licensing centre that is in the provinces to apply for my 2 driving licenses. Had god knows how many photocopies, photos and forms, there were stacks of them. Went in was told to place all my paperwork in a tray. 1 and a half hours later was called over to the desk by a government officer. He looked through everything and I smiled thinking I know it’s all perfect, signed and dated. Then he decided to make me sign and date the same paperwork all over again. Luckily I’m a quick signer. Although having 2 copies of everything he made me go downstairs and photocopy 5 more pages of the same stuff placing them with the copies I all ready brought with me. Then he ripped out my 90 day receipt from my passport and made me do 2 copies of that. Still desperate to find something wrong the man asked; how long have I been in Thailand? I said; 15 years. But your passport is only 4 years old he said. I know, my last passport expired 4 years ago, that’s my latest passport. You go and bring me your old passport he said. Then it came to a point that I had nothing to lose, it seemed that man was determined I wasn’t getting my licenses today. I said firmly, don’t have my old passport; what do you want me to do? I have brought you everything required in perfect order. Then he said, OK, I went to get my photo taken, licenses issued, paid the money, no receipts given, and off I went completely stressed out and thinking, the bustards.

I know many Thais that use that licensing centre and no problems, but that officer made me dance, juggle and jump through hoops for him today. And that to me has to be a form of racism, he did not like the Farlang having a Thai driving license and when it comes to dealing with government departments and essential services I have experienced similar before.

So you're not Indian?

[mrfaroukh]

The way I look at it, it's my Condo and I set the ground rules, .....

So, if that's what that owner's preference is, that's fine by me....

Sorry to say, but I think only a person of same attitude would agree with this.

[robertthebruce]

The way I look at it, it's my Condo and I set the ground rules, .....

So, if that's what that owner's preference is, that's fine by me....

Sorry to say, but I think only a person of same attitude would agree with this.

Like I said, My Condo, My Rules...., My Choice....

Like it or lump it....

[ffaarraanngg]

Indians have to be some of the most racist people on the planet, see the views of those of a lighter caste.

[ffaarraanngg]

This sort of cultural bias seems to matter most at the lower end of the rent chain…as you go higher and higher, the bias vanishes as the quality of tenants seems to improve.

Are you really dumb enough to claim that racism is bad, but then claim wealthy people are of higher quality?

[kannot]

My Wife works in this field, there are quite a few owners who stipulate "no Indians", their reason for this was the state of their rooms once the Indians had left, in a lot of cases it was disgusting, on top of this they would rent a room then cram in 3-4 more people in a room stating "for two people only"

They often also stipulate "no children or young children" as the youngsters tended to draw on the walls and at the end of the contract the tenant would complain it "wasnt there fault" and argue over repainting.

Having said all that Ive found 6-10 renters are pretty dirty animals anyway form what Ive seen and they are mainly Thais although no nation seems exempt form being filthy pigs.

Experience 10 years renting condos in Thailand, 20+ years in the UK

As for no smoking it makes perfect sense, after a smoker has left you may as well throw out all furniture bed linen everything then re paint and again the problems have been youll say smoke only on the balcony to accommodate them, then later you see they ignore it and smoked in the room.

Edited February 26, 2016 by kannot

[JHolmesJr]

This sort of cultural bias seems to matter most at the lower end of the rent chain…as you go higher and higher, the bias vanishes as the quality of tenants seems to improve.

Are you really dumb enough to claim that racism is bad, but then claim wealthy people are of higher quality?

That went straight over your head…dinnit?

[Inyourendo]

It's only the single apartment and not the entire apartment building?

I just lost interest.

Think of the fun you could have every night painting stuff on the door....special drops in their post box etc.....not all bad

[scorecard]

I wonder if this condo owner thinks the Buddha was Thai.....

Or thinks that AEC is a project to make a copy of Thailand because Thailand is so successful, so professional and so modern (this comment from one of my exuberant MBA students. Next question to student 'Where is this new country'? Response - silence.)

[arunsakda]

Not all Indians annoy people with cooking odours or smell bad. This is a fact. I also remember how foul my friends parents' house stunk growing up. Reeking of lambshanks, cigar butt overflowing ashtrays, stinky cheese and rancid smelling butter left out unrefrigerated. Old furniture and draperies likely not cleaned in years. I remember being shocked that they would wear jumpers (sweaters) all winter without sending them to the cleaners. The entire clan pure blond hair blue eyed "White British"!

Still this malodorous family gets a pass and can rent any BKK condo without any addtional considerations whilst others are to be rejected offhand, solely based on nationality.

A perfect example of the "white privlege" it is so fashionable for bigots to deny, and even to turn around and say they are now the ones being discriminated against.

Edited February 27, 2016 by arunsakda

[Tomtomtom69]

Racism and prejudice is common here, as with other countries, and barely disguised as there's really little comeback as far as I can see.

Imagine the reaction to something like this in western countries.

Well next time I'm in Australia I'll be taking pictures of some of the "flat mates wanted" adverts, some in English only others in Chinese/English or just in Chinese which clearly advertise "Chinese only" or "Asian only". Asian only in their context means no Indians either. It means east Asian.

That's just as racist and IS happening (or at least was happening the last time I checked 2-3 years ago) in Australia.

I am not sure what the reaction was, but I can't remember it making the news.

[Tomtomtom69]

Not all Indians annoy people with cooking odours or smell bad. This is a fact. I also remember how foul my friends parents' house stunk growing up. Reeking of lambshanks, cigar butt overflowing ashtrays, stinky cheese and rancid smelling butter left out unrefrigerated. Old furniture and draperies likely not cleaned in years. I remember being shocked that they would wear jumpers (sweaters) all winter without sending them to the cleaners. The entire clan pure blond hair blue eyed "White British"!

Still this malodorous family gets a pass and can rent any BKK condo without any addtional considerations whilst others are to be rejected offhand, solely based on nationality.

A perfect example of the "white privlege" it is so fashionable for bigots to deny, and even to turn around and say they are now the ones being discriminated against.

Spare us the self-hating cultural Marxism. We've had enough of that crap in the west and don't need it here in Thailand.

White privilege doesn't exist in the west anymore. And it's completely irrelevant in Thailand where we are now. Why are you posting this on a Thai based forum?

Look around you. 99% of the population is Thai, i.e. Asian. Westerners are present, but they can't own land, they are often subjected to higher prices, occasionally to stares. That isn't white privilege my friend, that is discrimination.