EM from Global House..any experiences.

[IsaanAussie]

The standard rate for soil preparation is EM dilution of 1::1000 applied at 1 litre per square metre. So for 1,600 sqm to the rai, you would need 1.6 litres of EM and also of molasses. So round it all up, extend 2 litres as per normal to produce 20 litres then spray that on mixed into a total of 2000 litres of clean water. That will give you a bit stronger mix but makes calculation easier for available plastic drum sizes. 20 x 100 litre drums, each with a litre of extended EM added per rai. (Even my BIL can work that out)

BUT

Can you tell a bit more about what you want to do with this land? The EM needs moisture and organic matter to survive and your soil is dry with a "coverage" of dead grass. Can you irrigate? (maybe a dumb question in a drought!) Do you have straw or other grass mulch type materials?

Added note:

EM is used to promote seed germination, including weed seeds. Depending on the seed load, it can take a year or two to really see the difference. You will need patience.

[ThaiFelix]

Hi Felix,

No arguments about the 'natural' thing. Just highlighting that it is sometimes our actions/fears which cause the out of balance situation and with a little different planning can save more work.

From the post you said earlier I thought you were putting borax in the garden which wouldn't really help your beneficial bacteria/fungi or EM formula. It might work slowly still though. Is your water from the tap? The heavily chlorinated kind or just well water that's been UVed? Soil/plants will survive on that water but might not thrive on it.

Your house is a different space (unless you grow your veggies in there...lol) and even though I am quite happy to sit and watch swarms of ants migrate from one side of the house to inside/under the house just before a big rainstorm and then take all their eggs back out again a few days/weeks later I do not expect anyone else to do that. Anyway, ants in the house is a little off-topic. I do feel they fill the gap of the lack of earthworms where I live, so I let them be. For me this is part of my ecosystem that involves the EM mixture I apply.

I don't feed my fish, but that's not because I try to be 'natural', it's part of the system that has grown around me and it doesn't interfere with me so I leave it alone, apart from taking a few biguns out(for the sake of the little ones of course ). I still don't get the living in caves thing? So sorry I can't comment on that. I have heard of a few people who do, but I don't think that has anything to do with an ecosystem for growing/supporting soil/plants, I think some people just like to do that.

Generally I don't think that fresh water watering, manuring and growing the right kind of plants in abundance would create an ant problem that lasted too long, but I may be wrong.

I'm not saying you have to do any of the things I do, just giving you some different perspective so you can make better decisions. Don't worry if you don't agree with what I do, I am used to a lot of people not understanding where I am coming from. Hope that helps

No, definitely no arguments here....maybe debate would be a better choice of words. While we all may not agree with each other...we all learn something from each other and yes you are correct about "it is sometimes our actions/fears which cause the out of balance situation"...I am too often guilty of this and often need to remind myself to stop being so pedantic and just leave things be.

Water. We have a choice of two different water supplies here. The water in our moo ban comes from a dam fed by a stream but is chlorinated, dusty and unreliable. However, as we live on the border with the adjoining moo ban we were lucky enough to also hook into their supply which comes from a 90 meter well/bore. This water is heavy in minerals of some kind, as shown by the build up of salts on the bathroom tiles, taps, etc but is not treated in any way I have been

assured. We only use the chlorinated water in emergencies such as pump failure etc but never in the fish pond or frog/catfish tanks. For making up my EM I only use rainwater from a small tank off the workshop roof.

Earthworms. We too lack earthworms in our soil and was hoping the addittion of EM and lots of compost to the soil may rectify this. We have a few rai with rubber trees a few kilometers out of town with what appears to be the same clayish soil but is riddled with earthworms. I cant actually say I have seen the worms but the rubber tree groves are littered with pinnacles of worm castings, some over 20 cm high. This I can only put down to years of leaf buildup in the soil. We collect and use these in the garden as well. I am contemplating starting a worm farm and slowly introducing the earthworms into the better composted areas.

Living in a cave hahaha What I was getting at here was an exaggeration of going totally natural. In other words giving up everything in order to have no impact on the environment in which we live. Maybe this time its me where no-one understands where I am coming from

[ThaiFelix]

Oh yeah, ants!

Try dusting with cinnamon powder, amazing stuff. You can use it on plant stems or around the house and the ants will be gone. I am told it also helps with damping off of seedlings and as a rooting powder for cuttings.

Give it a crack.

Cinnamon powder eh. I have to make a trip to Udon next week or so and will look at for it....maybe Makro stock it as I dont think its a normal Thai thing to find in Tesco or Big C etc?

Bloody ants decided to take up residence this morning in a pedistal fan we use on the verandah against mosquito invasion. Fan wont work now so imagine they have gummed up the contacts in the speed selector....same thing happened 6 months ago when they got into the kettle switch....they must get some kind of buzz out of being near electricity

I knew an old guy back home who always sprinkled lime along the edges of his garden paths to stop the ants undermining it and swore by it. Dont fancy sprinkling lime on my nice verandah tiles though!

Incidently I have been using EM instead of salt last two water changes in my catfish tanks and so far no problems...they are thriving and no signs of the bacterial infections making a comeback. I have also been adding EM in my bullfrog (gop) tanks each water change but doesnt seem to be lessening the smell.

[farmerjo]

The standard rate for soil preparation is EM dilution of 1::1000 applied at 1 litre per square metre. So for 1,600 sqm to the rai, you would need 1.6 litres of EM and also of molasses. So round it all up, extend 2 litres as per normal to produce 20 litres then spray that on mixed into a total of 2000 litres of clean water. That will give you a bit stronger mix but makes calculation easier for available plastic drum sizes. 20 x 100 litre drums, each with a litre of extended EM added per rai. (Even my BIL can work that out)

BUT

Can you tell a bit more about what you want to do with this land? The EM needs moisture and organic matter to survive and your soil is dry with a "coverage" of dead grass. Can you irrigate? (maybe a dumb question in a drought!) Do you have straw or other grass mulch type materials?

Added note:

EM is used to promote seed germination, including weed seeds. Depending on the seed load, it can take a year or two to really see the difference. You will need patience.

The land will be going into sunn hemp.

Have water but not viable at this stage for that piece of land so will be rainy season for water.

Have an abundance of corn stalks supplying a layer on top with the grasses.

And the land won't be ploughed.(no-till seeding)(it's been subsoiled 15" deep in 1.5 metre rows)

To add it had 400 kg of gypsum spread on it with only 25mm of rain since.

The interesting part to me besides rates is the timing of when to apply as you have highlighted. .

Thanks I/A.

[IsaanAussie]

I haven't tried a no-till system. I would be composting or making bokashi from the corn stalks at this time of year. Waiting until the first rain so I can get a plough into the ground and incorporating the compost. About the closest in my experience is Foreverford, who harrows his crop residues in (sprayed first with EM) prior to planting sun hemp. But he has water and floods the ground first.

If your corn stalks are spread already then you could try spraying at the 1::1000, 1litre per sqm rate, but I would think you will need to repeat the process every week or so to maintain some moisture level. As a suggestion, if you are going to start prior to the rain, I would spray twice prior to planting your hemp a week apart and maybe once or twice after it germinates.

Anyone else out there tried EM in what FJ is proposing?

[Foreverford]

hey all this is an interesting path that Felix has started. Remember well what IA has said about EM needing water. Some of his earlier explanations confused me slightly due to nomenclature. I think a good term for EM is to just refer to it as "Activated". I think earlier it was referred to as EM-A and would assume this is EM-1 that has been mixed with 1 liter of molasses and 18 liters of water.

I think we can now say and assume you don't want to put EM-1 (un-"activated") on your garden or in your livestock. always brew it first and give away the other 19 liters if you don't need it but activation gets the stew brewing and that is what you want. When I first told IA about the product I was told that it was used for hogs in their drinking water and the fellow added one liter to about 200 liters and didn't get his desired results.His Thai Mom in law told him he wasn't using enough so he went to 3 liters and the results were significant. IA has made a science of it in regards to even different types of EM but it really isn't so necessary as the one liter EM-1 that is found in feed and seed stores throughout the country will suffice for 99% of the people.

I don't flood fields normally before applying EM but if the if I had a dry field, as was mentioned earlier, with grass, weeds and corn stalks I would spray a strong mixture (20+%) with a hand sprayer on the plot before and after using sprinklers to wet the soil. thereafter I would disc (I have an adjustable two gang 18 blade disc/harrow) as IA has said and then let the grass and weeds sit in the sun the entire day to kill them off. I have also put high concentrations in my encircling klong and pumped it dry to irrigate (sprinklers and flooding).

We grow predominantly rice in the lowlands of the farm and EM should be applied constantly (higher %'s depending on frequency) on the cut straw and stubble immediately after harvest and bi-weekly until the soil is dry enough so you can get in a planting of sunn hemp (pah teung). When the hemp is growing it can be sprayed topically at 2% solution nearly weekly. IA's formula of 1/1000 requires one liter per square meter and requires the application of a good amount of solution at that rate. I believe the reason for the rate and high volume is to get the solution into the soil so it stands a chance of surviving and growing and working. If it is applied to dry ground and thereafter irrigated to some extent your chances will be good that you are getting benefit. My higher solutions will only work on wet ground and dead plant material or dry ground that will be immediately irrigated in some form or another. Obviously the best time to apply is during rainy times as you an use the rain to dilute your solution and allow higher concentrations to be applied which means less backpacks full of spray. this isn't such a big factor on a one rai plot but can be significant for a plot like IA has that is nearly 20 rai or so.

So wet soil and rainy times are the excellent conditions to apply your ''Activated" (EM-A) Em solutions. I have always feared that I could kill my seed if i applied high %'s on them so I never do this but I am never reticent in regards to applying 20-30% on a harvested rice field and then discing and immediately in one day seeding and planting sun hemp which is a very fragile seed when wet as it will start sprouting in much less than a half day if you try to pre-germinate it by wetting your bags of seeds with luke warm water. Be advised!!! don't wet the seeds and let them sit more than a couple of hours before planting.

Ants shall rule the world. I always felt that building a home in the country required that a small canal/ditch (15cmx15cmx15cm) would need to be built completely around the home and filled with water (keep it well dosed with EM) so you could keep ants from crossing and getting into living spaces. Amazingly thereafter i went to visit the old palace outside of Hua Hin and that is exactly what King Chulalakorn did with his palace so it is a practice that has been used and obviously does work. It could be incorporated into a landscape system with waterfalls etc to keep it from looking so clinical but with ant infestation ANY solution is a good solution and think cinnamon would be a grand fix and will wait to see how others fare.

With the Bullfrogs I would take the water you think is stinky and you will replace with new water and put it in a similar or smaller vessel and have three frogs in that water and start to add EM at least 10% but even 20% to that water and see what results you get. i don;'t knowif EM is able to create impossible tasks as you may just have way way too many frogs in way way to little water and space but if anything can prolong the life of the water I think EM is it as i saw IA's hog operation and septic systems and ponds and it was as sanitary as could be imagined and I believe EM was the determining factor after the knowledge or when and how to use it on his excellently designed operation. Remember the original fellow who turned me onto the EM was using almost 2% solution as drinking water for his hogs so I think frogs could survive and do well in a solution of 5% and higher especially with so much feces and urine and unconsumed food to work out the EM. I hope you can do an experiment with your frogs and update us. Choke dee peace love and Fords FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFForever

ps hey Issan Aussie i thinks these two songs might be just about right for you as i think you are airborne about now and heading north to us in the land of smiles today!! Welcome home!!!

substitute Australia for LA Freeway in this song

gee but it IS great to be back home And Tone they have our photo on this link too

one more as this should bring it all home

[IsaanAussie]

I'm back at last and about to board the mini bus to the farm. Well be very interested to see what has/has not be maintained. Zero expectations is the way to go.

The primary functions of EM include competing and antagonising against the pathogenic organisms. This is, cleaning the water by eliminating the bad guys.

Haven't listened to the music yet FFF but will get around to it.

[IsaanAussie]

Arrived early this morning in the village by mini bus. Straight off into a full blown demonstration of the EM "manual". Vindicated at last, "Same, same farang do before". But I doubt there will be many takers when it comes to using white whiskey in EM5. Good chat with the rep and showed him what a 3 box compost system looks like. Karma at work?

[Foreverford]

here you go sing it loud IA

one of my heroes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hlTHsojrxc

[IsaanAussie]

Been thinking about the dosage rates by EM concoctions. Here in Thailand most EM applications are based on aerobic conditions as the indigenous organisms used prefer oxygen rich environments. Not true for all EM usage, but for most including composting where the organisms and the decomposition process uses oxygen. In a pond or tank environment, fish rely on an acceptable level in the water to be able to breathe. Whilst starting with a higher level of organisms will mean their population will grow faster and so the benefits, there has to be a balance. I initially dosed my pond with the septic tank effluent from the pigs in order to run a green pond system. I didn't use much, but enough to kill most of the fish I didn't know were even in the pond within a day. So if you are using EM in a pond that is high in nutrients, my advice is to make sure you aerate the water.

[ThaiFelix]

Pla Duk (catfish) I have been noticing about 24 hours after each time I have dosed the tank with EM after a 50% water change, there have appeared floating on the surface quite a few spirals or coils of a kind of hard almost clear mucous. Hard to describe but looks to me like some sort of discharge....suggesting to me an affect on their digestive system?? Maybe a good thing, maybe bad. As the fish have been healthy, very active, growing, and eating well with no losses for months I have decided to fall back on the old Russian saying...."if somethings not broken- dont repair it". So I have stopped dosing with EM for the present. There are other reasons too and the main one is that at the moment were are suffering from a serious shortage of water. Both of my supplies have dwindled to only having water for a couple of hours each morning and afternoon and even then it is down to a mere trickle. We barely get enough to keep the gardens going apart from showering and laundary etc. So water changes have been out of the question. The pla duk however are very hardy and will survive in almost any water conditions. This leads me to IsaanAussies informative post re nutrients and oxygen. While I am sure the tank is very rich in nutrients considering the number of fish per litre plus the fact that water changes now are not happening, pla duk merely swim to the surface and gulp air normally. I believe they can also breathe air from the surface through their whiskers. I think if they were short of oxygen they would be spending a lot more time at the surface, which they are not.

Gop (bullfrogs) As the quantity of water in the frog tank is quite small (apprx 150 litres) I have been able to continue my twice a week water changes along with EM dosing. Each time I have increased the dosage with the last being apprx 600 ml of EMA to 150 lt of water. Still doesnt seem to have lessened the smell but I can live with that. Considering there are apprx 300+ bullfrogs of 3/4 full size pooping in 150 litres of water for 3 days, and in this heat, I think the EM is hard pressed to take over completely. My main reason for dosing them with EM, apart from their general health, is that they sometimes bite each other. Their sight is tuned to movement so when they are feeding they will sometimes strike at a nearby frog that happens to move, irregardless of their target's size. Mostly their is no problem with this but sometimes they break the skin, even slightly, and once that happens they seem to get sick, dont eat and slowly fade away. I was hoping the EM may be a benefit in their recovery in those cases. Our losses however are very small with about only 2 frogs being lost per month. Sometimes there are cases where EM could never help, such as today when we had to remove one of our largest frogs because it had been completely disemboweled! As the rest of the frogs are healthy, eating well, growing and noisy before feeding time haha I will continue with the EM.

Feeding catfish and bullfrogs I have a question re feeding which maybe Foreverford (or others) could help as I believe he has some expertise in this field. From day one I have been feeding the catfish and bullfrogs twice a day and increasing the amount as they grow. The catfish I have fed, mid morning and late afternoon, the amount they can eat in 10 minutes, which is usually when they lose interest in any case. The bullfrogs I feed at the same time and the quantity I judge by what is left over from the last feed. Last week my wife, who has no experience with either, apart from chatting with others in the village, informs me that I am overfeeding, that once a day now is sufficient. The frogs are 3/4 grown and the catfish average approx 20cm in length (I dont as yet have any scales to weigh). Anybody have any info here?

Ants I am very pleased to announce that my ant problems have abated at present. The borax, sometimes with sugar and water, sometimes with chicken soup, has cleared the verandah of 90% of the ants and the house is completely free.

[IsaanAussie]

I think your frog pond could be out of balance in terms of C:N ratio. If you have an ammonia like smell then you have way to much nitrogen and probably little carbon at all since you are exchanging the water. Micro-organisms need carbon to build their cells as does all life forms.

Perhaps you should try adding a carbon source to the water and see if the smell diminishes. Tie a handful of straw into a bundle and stand it in the pond.

[ThaiFelix]

I think your frog pond could be out of balance in terms of C:N ratio. If you have an ammonia like smell then you have way to much nitrogen and probably little carbon at all since you are exchanging the water. Micro-organisms need carbon to build their cells as does all life forms.

Perhaps you should try adding a carbon source to the water and see if the smell diminishes. Tie a handful of straw into a bundle and stand it in the pond.

Thanks IsaanAussie. We do have quite a few plants (water hyacinth) for shelter in the tank which I imagine would be consuming some of the nitrogen, especially considering the are a rich green in colour and flourishing. But carbon, yes that is a good idea. The water in the tank is only about 6 cm deep, do you consider this sufficient to stand the bundle?

I am attaching a photo of the frog tank (after cleaning haha) so you get a better idea. This was taken apprx 1 month ago so the frogs are bigger now. The other pic is of the frog and catfish tanks side by side.

[IsaanAussie]

One impressive frog pond TF, wow. The frog "farms" I have seen have never been tiled and as clean as your aquarium. I was about comment of the need to feed them at all given the insects at this time of year until I notice the flyscreens. Looking at what appears to be feed pellets, I would think you may be overfeeding them. There is plenty of vegetative food which they would probably eat more of with a bit of a push.

It is hard to see an problems with what you have got there as It is so clean. Perhaps if you could find the source of the smell it might give some clue. Is it the plants, the frogs, spoilt feed or even the algae on the rocks? Can you describe the smell?

[ThaiFelix]

One impressive frog pond TF, wow. The frog "farms" I have seen have never been tiled and as clean as your aquarium. I was about comment of the need to feed them at all given the insects at this time of year until I notice the flyscreens. Looking at what appears to be feed pellets, I would think you may be overfeeding them. There is plenty of vegetative food which they would probably eat more of with a bit of a push.

It is hard to see an problems with what you have got there as It is so clean. Perhaps if you could find the source of the smell it might give some clue. Is it the plants, the frogs, spoilt feed or even the algae on the rocks? Can you describe the smell?

Thank you for your kind comments IA, I always strive to do a good job with everything I do, but as mentioned before I think sometimes I'm a bit too pedantic,my T. wife is the same. I believe keeping their environment clean aids the frogs health. The tiles make it easier to clean and also is less damaging to the frogs. Growing up as a kid in Oz I always kept lots of wild critters at home and soon realised that rough concrete tank walls caused injuries/abrasions, particularly to their noses. Flyscreens, no, its just 3/4" plastic mesh. Insects will/have entered, in fact I have lights above to attract them but we dont see them this time of the year except for mosquitos and the odd fly. Once the rains come its a totally different story, every light in the pace is swarming with bugs.

The tank in the picture had only just been cleaned and the frogs given their morning feed just before the photo was taken. In fact I had not yet even added the EM otherwise the water would be slightly brownish. Two hours later 99% of that food would be eaten. By the afternoon there would be poop everywhere in the water. Spoilt feed, I dont think so. I like to always spend a bit of time in the tank doorway before, during, and after feeding. The same when we are cleaning the tank. It gives us a chance to look over the stock to check their condition. Inspecting the tank also gives me an idea of how much to feed them as they are growing. If the food disappears too quickly I tend to increase the amount, if food is left over in the morning (rarely) I reduce. Normally they clear up all the food in the water and on the (dry) island within a couple of hours. Sometimes there is some food left over on the shelter roof (Qcon blocks) because there are only a few frogs that go up there, but it is dry so not rotten thus little smell. Dry food smells a bit like blood and bone. There may be a small amount of food that gets lost among the plants but I have never noticed any...unless it dissolves and looks the same as the frog faeces,

No the smell is definitely from the faeces (not sure if I can say shit here hahaha!). As mentioned in previous post, I have questions regarding how many times to feed a day. I have now changed to feeding them only once a day, so half the amount per day. Since this reduction, starting three days ago, the smell has actually reduced. I think it is now a more manageable amount for the EM. The frogs dont smell, the plants are ok, but the rocks have a slight algae or green water type smell. The main smell to me is definitely a poop smell.

[green thumb]

Impressive frog pond there. What sort of dimentions is the frog tank?

[ThaiFelix]

Impressive frog pond there. What sort of dimentions is the frog tank?

Thank you green thumb. The whole structure is 6 mt x 2.5 mt x 1.2 mt high (wall height) with a centre dividing wall making each tank apprx 3 x 2.5 mt. One side for frogs the other for catfish. The frogs have an island in the middle apprx 1.4 mt x .90 at the base and apprx .10 high. The netting enclosure above the walls is .93 high because that was the width of the netting I used, it makes the whole enclosing job a lot easier, less cutting and joining. Hope that helps.

[green thumb]

Yup that gives me an idea. You can jam alot of frogs in a 7.5 SqM area. How many Pla Duk in the tank?

[ThaiFelix]

Yup that gives me an idea. You can jam alot of frogs in a 7.5 SqM area. How many Pla Duk in the tank?

There is about 500 in same size tank.

[IsaanAussie]

Having seen your frog palace I am thinking that perhaps EM is not the answer alone. You have a small amount of water which is changed regularly and a large population of frogs and their excretions. Could you filter most of the solids out of the water rather than change the whole volume?

[ThaiFelix]

Having seen your frog palace I am thinking that perhaps EM is not the answer alone. You have a small amount of water which is changed regularly and a large population of frogs and their excretions. Could you filter most of the solids out of the water rather than change the whole volume?

Filter the solids? Not really, not without making some major modifications. 60mm is too shallow to have even a very small submersible pump. Maybe a sump in the floor to house a pump might work if I was to build another one. What some commercial operators have is water running continuously through their tanks. out of the question here. No the smell I am going to have to grin and bear with. As mentioned in the previous post, since I have reduced daily feed to once a day, the odour is not so bad. And it is only when the frogs are getting quite big so only about a month.

Something cropped up yesterday which I didn't foresee. We had some Thai friends around yesterday and decided to try out a few catfish and frogs on the BBQ for the first time. Hahaha! They tasted like EM! Everyone said they were good but tasted like my workshop smelled......of fish pellets and EM! I believe feeding the catfish with fruit (papaya) etc cleans out the pellet taste but not sure about the EM. Thinking I might just confine using the EM to the garden or only use it in the tanks while they are small, well before harvest time. You live and learn!!

Frog palace eh! They are, after all, hi-so frogs. They actually used to have a TV in their 'palace', but I took it away from them because they were naughty.....they wouldn't stay quiet come bed time!

[IsaanAussie]

Before you abandon the effort, can you try placing a "liner" of fine happa net (the blue stuff people dry rice on) on the floor of the pond and let the frogs do their business on that. Then you can just lift it out. The idea is to just remove most of the crap as some is desireable to feed the EM biology.

The lactic acid bacteria is EM is having a sterilising effect so you won't be poisoning anyone. But you have been overdosing with EM. Back it right off.

Another thing you could try is to add some lumps of charcoal in a small pile. When you clean, sweep the manure into a corner and place the charcoal on top. This will tend to trap/react with the ammonia emissions as the bacteria and balance the C:N ratio.

[Foreverford]

I just posted about 45 minutes of typing and this is what I received for all that effort

There appears to be an error with the database.

If you are seeing this page, it means there was a problem communicating with our database, or we are over capacity. Sometimes this error is temporary and will go away when you refresh the page. Sometimes the error will need to be fixed by an administrator before the site will become accessible again.

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Does anyone know how to get what I tyoed back as when i refreshed the page my script was gone. Very sad and I am off into the ocean. is there anywhere that Thaivisa might automatically save my posts and did I go wrong by reloading the farming forum and posting this. Quite a waste of a grand morning and I'm off to jump into the gulf and swim out as far as I can if I become fish food I'll welcome it

[loong]

It is annoying when all your typing disappears into cyberspace!!

I try to get into the habit of copying the text before I add the reply. Or if I know it is going to be lengthy, I will type it into a word document first.

Pressing the back button on your browser sometimes works, but I don't think that it works for all browsers and maybe not with the quick reply window..

I am using the back button now, as I have had that message 4 times, trying to post this.

[loong]

It is annoying when all your typing disappears into cyberspace!!

I try to get into the habit of copying the text before I add the reply. Or if I know it is going to be lengthy, I will type it into a word document first.

Pressing the back button on your browser sometimes works, but I don't think that it works for all browsers and maybe not with the quick reply window..

I am using the back button now, as I have had that message 4 times, trying to post this.

[loong]

It is annoying when all your typing disappears into cyberspace!!

I try to get into the habit of copying the text before I add the reply. Or if I know it is going to be lengthy, I will type it into a word document first.

Pressing the back button on your browser sometimes works, but I don't think that it works for all browsers and maybe not with the quick reply window..

I am using the back button now, as I have had that message 4 times, trying to post this.

[loong]

It is annoying when all your typing disappears into cyberspace!!

I try to get into the habit of copying the text before I add the reply. Or if I know it is going to be lengthy, I will type it into a word document first.

Pressing the back button on your browser sometimes works, but I don't think that it works for all browsers and maybe not with the quick reply window..

I am using the back button now, as I have had that message five Loads of times, trying to post this.

[Foreverford]

Thanks long loong for your reply and as you know it's been a while and you are 101% write and left about creating your reply outside of Thaivisa as this was an ongoing problem in the years past when i would reply and as you see the post I got entered was something that I tried to post twice but was smart enough to have it saved outside of TV and it appears that this one was pulled t=from the depths and posted but alas the long and hopefully informative reply to this link appears to be lost and I will attempt to respond again after a bit of Crciket Sixes in Hua Hin and hopefully dial in the Fine Feline Felix from Fords FFFFForever

ps this was attached to my response and maybe more relevant now

[loong]

Maybe a moderator can remove the additional posts that appeared to fail to upload, but obviously did.

[loong]

FF,

I have just realised that the content of your post are auto-saved every 2 minutes or so.

If you need to reload

If you right click in the reply window to expand the reply options for editing a message is in the bottom left hand corner to view auto saved content.

If you click on the message, you can restore the saved text.

I don't know if this would auto save while the server is having problems and I don't know if it will still be available as you may have overwritten it.

It's worth a try as some of your post may still be there.