Mae Wong Dam - eco-disaster by the back door.

[cumgranosalum]

Originally this suggestion was booted out in the 1980s and like a bad penny keeps coming back....the arguments for it change with the times, giving one the impression that they don't so much care for it's benefits or drawbacks, just so long as it's built..

Now the irrigation chief Irrigation Department director general Suthep Noipairoj has put forward another plea for the dam - notable largely for it's coinciding with predictions of nationwide drought.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/PM-urged-to-give-nod-to-Mae-Wong-Dam-30280303.html

The dam has been promoted on various tickets at various times, irrigation, water for industry or housing etc, but none have actually been shown to be improved by this dam.

The chief claims it will help with this drought - which of course is simply not possible.

What is shown is that water saved by the dam would be better sawed by a series of smaller storage systems along the course of the river.

The main problem is the devastating impact this dam will have on the environment - Part of a national park and a wildlife sanctuary it will be another if not the final nail in the coffin of the population of wild tigers in Thailand.

It could ensure that the current regime has the ignoble accolade of being the administration that oversees (if not causes) the extinction of the wild tiger in Thailand Surely this is not how this administration would like to be remembered?

[kannot]

Worry about the dam???? better still look at Thailand as a whole, the Thais have none to little care for their "beloved" country.

[cumgranosalum]

Yes - worry very much about this dam - it is a pivotal point in the way Thailand handles its environment and natural resources. It is connected to the fate of the Tiger in Thailand and there is considerable opposition to it organised by Thai environmentalists - this is a crucial battle in the war.....and should not be brushed aside as an irrelevance.

[billd766]

I live on the other side of the Mae Wong national park and our water supply also comes from the Mae Wong national park.

At least it would do if there was any water to have.

Our supply stopped in mid December 2015 and until there has been at least a months rain it will not return. We had some heavy rain on Wednesday night for an hour or so and the rain which didn't run off just soaked the surface. It was the first rain for 6 weeks.

Whilst I appreciate that tigers live there nobody has actually seen them for many years. The area they are talking about is less than 20 km/sq and the area or the national park is 894 km/sq.

The Mae Wong river which flows out from that side causes flooding and crop damage as far as 30km downstream in the really wet season which is about 3 years in every 8 and in a drought season such as now cuts the available water supply to many villages.

If and when the dam building starts the animals that tiger use for a food supply and the tigers themselves will simply move further into the park to less accessible areas for humans and people still won't see them.

Most of the conservationists and tree huggers don't even live in the area and have no real idea of the problems that local people face on a yearly basis.

As fot the klong across the road that supplies water to quite a few villages around here, well that is now just a series of puddles slowly drying out and there is no water flowing at all.

[cumgranosalum]

I live on the other side of the Mae Wong national park and our water supply also comes from the Mae Wong national park.

At least it would do if there was any water to have.

Our supply stopped in mid December 2015 and until there has been at least a months rain it will not return. We had some heavy rain on Wednesday night for an hour or so and the rain which didn't run off just soaked the surface. It was the first rain for 6 weeks.

Whilst I appreciate that tigers live there nobody has actually seen them for many years. The area they are talking about is less than 20 km/sq and the area or the national park is 894 km/sq.

The Mae Wong river which flows out from that side causes flooding and crop damage as far as 30km downstream in the really wet season which is about 3 years in every 8 and in a drought season such as now cuts the available water supply to many villages.

If and when the dam building starts the animals that tiger use for a food supply and the tigers themselves will simply move further into the park to less accessible areas for humans and people still won't see them.

Most of the conservationists and tree huggers don't even live in the area and have no real idea of the problems that local people face on a yearly basis.

As fot the klong across the road that supplies water to quite a few villages around here, well that is now just a series of puddles slowly drying out and there is no water flowing at all.

Looks to me like you have failed to understand the issues - it not about “tigers live there” - or doubting that they are there.

Tigers are the apex predator of a whole eco- system. Indeed part of that system that tigers actually contribute to - it’s called a trophic cascade - is the streams that they and their prey rely on -(BTW - this cannot be replaced by a lake)

So the” small amount” of acreage would in actual fact have a domino effect of that system and in reality reduce the amount of water available to local people.

The “tree huggers” (this sort of stereotyping show a real lack of critical thinking on your part) as you call them are teams of scientists that have been working for up to 20 years analysing the effects of this dam and government report after government report has rejected it. It cannot be denied that this dam would make a lot of money for some - not locals - there will be govt contracts to be had for both construction and LOGGING, (The Burmese rosewood in the immediate area of the dam is both rare and incredibly valuable) - the roads built into the area will increase access both for poachers and later for development of resorts around the lake...all this will impinge and encroach on the local environment - this encroachment doesn’t stop at the water’s edge of the proposed dame it will infiltrate miles into the regional environment.

“If and when the dam building starts the animals that tiger use for a food supply and the tigers themselves will simply move further into the park to less accessible areas for humans and people still won't see them.”

- this is a complete fallacy - animals require certain acreage and have territories, they can’t just “move” to another place, there are already animals there. All the flora and fauna of an eco-system are interlinked, they don’t just hang around regardless, they need the right food in the right place in the right topography and they also need to be undisturbed by human workings.

Many of the locals have been recruited by officials who want to see this dam built - in reality it WON’T bring any water to the area, the dam is actually too small to be of any real benefit and the Mae Wong Stream too small..

“, Sasin Chalermlarp, chairman of the Seub Nakhasathien Foundation, told experts conducting the environment and health impact assessment (EHIA) that building a dam inside Mae Wong National Park in Nakhon Sawan is not worth the investment as it has a very low water storage capacity of around 200 million cubic metres.

Normally, a big dam can store one billion cu/m of water. Mr Sasin said if the government insists on building the dam in the national park, the tigers living in the adjoining Huai Kha Khaeng Wildlife Sanctuary — the largest tiger habitat in Southeast Asia — will lose their home.”

As for locals benefitting, there is actually no guarantee however an alternative scheme would directly benefit locals....

“Mr Sasin said the foundation had earlier proposed an alternative type of water management, suggesting locals living in water-insecure locations dig household ponds to store water during the dry season.

There is no need to lose a fertile forest complex when ponds can hold over 250 million cu/m of water and are six times cheaper to build”

This scheme is currently under scrutiny by the government - it woiuld seem that those who want the dam feel te argument is not going their way....again.....and hope that the fear of drought can be used to hoodwink the public.

conservationist

you may not also realize that the Royal Irrigation Project is not the only body nationally concerned with water supply and the bodies are at loggerheads - I’ll let you work out what’s going on there....but the former is locked into really dated ideas about water supply.

[billd766]

I live on the other side of the Mae Wong national park and our water supply also comes from the Mae Wong national park.

At least it would do if there was any water to have.

Our supply stopped in mid December 2015 and until there has been at least a months rain it will not return. We had some heavy rain on Wednesday night for an hour or so and the rain which didn't run off just soaked the surface. It was the first rain for 6 weeks.

Whilst I appreciate that tigers live there nobody has actually seen them for many years. The area they are talking about is less than 20 km/sq and the area or the national park is 894 km/sq.

The Mae Wong river which flows out from that side causes flooding and crop damage as far as 30km downstream in the really wet season which is about 3 years in every 8 and in a drought season such as now cuts the available water supply to many villages.

If and when the dam building starts the animals that tiger use for a food supply and the tigers themselves will simply move further into the park to less accessible areas for humans and people still won't see them.

Most of the conservationists and tree huggers don't even live in the area and have no real idea of the problems that local people face on a yearly basis.

As fot the klong across the road that supplies water to quite a few villages around here, well that is now just a series of puddles slowly drying out and there is no water flowing at all.

Looks to me like you have failed to understand the issues - it not about “tigers live there” - or doubting that they are there.

Tigers are the apex predator of a whole eco- system. Indeed part of that system that tigers actually contribute to - it’s called a trophic cascade - is the streams that they and their prey rely on -(BTW - this cannot be replaced by a lake)

So the” small amount” of acreage would in actual fact have a domino effect of that system and in reality reduce the amount of water available to local people.

The “tree huggers” (this sort of stereotyping show a real lack of critical thinking on your part) as you call them are teams of scientists that have been working for up to 20 years analysing the effects of this dam and government report after government report has rejected it. It cannot be denied that this dam would make a lot of money for some - not locals - there will be govt contracts to be had for both construction and LOGGING, (The Burmese rosewood in the immediate area of the dam is both rare and incredibly valuable) - the roads built into the area will increase access both for poachers and later for development of resorts around the lake...all this will impinge and encroach on the local environment - this encroachment doesn’t stop at the water’s edge of the proposed dame it will infiltrate miles into the regional environment.

“If and when the dam building starts the animals that tiger use for a food supply and the tigers themselves will simply move further into the park to less accessible areas for humans and people still won't see them.”

- this is a complete fallacy - animals require certain acreage and have territories, they can’t just “move” to another place, there are already animals there. All the flora and fauna of an eco-system are interlinked, they don’t just hang around regardless, they need the right food in the right place in the right topography and they also need to be undisturbed by human workings.

Many of the locals have been recruited by officials who want to see this dam built - in reality it WON’T bring any water to the area, the dam is actually too small to be of any real benefit and the Mae Wong Stream too small..

“, Sasin Chalermlarp, chairman of the Seub Nakhasathien Foundation, told experts conducting the environment and health impact assessment (EHIA) that building a dam inside Mae Wong National Park in Nakhon Sawan is not worth the investment as it has a very low water storage capacity of around 200 million cubic metres.

Normally, a big dam can store one billion cu/m of water. Mr Sasin said if the government insists on building the dam in the national park, the tigers living in the adjoining Huai Kha Khaeng Wildlife Sanctuary — the largest tiger habitat in Southeast Asia — will lose their home.”

As for locals benefitting, there is actually no guarantee however an alternative scheme would directly benefit locals....

“Mr Sasin said the foundation had earlier proposed an alternative type of water management, suggesting locals living in water-insecure locations dig household ponds to store water during the dry season.

There is no need to lose a fertile forest complex when ponds can hold over 250 million cu/m of water and are six times cheaper to build”

This scheme is currently under scrutiny by the government - it woiuld seem that those who want the dam feel te argument is not going their way....again.....and hope that the fear of drought can be used to hoodwink the public.

conservationist

you may not also realize that the Royal Irrigation Project is not the only body nationally concerned with water supply and the bodies are at loggerheads - I’ll let you work out what’s going on there....but the former is locked into really dated ideas about water supply.

You and I have had this argument before and we can only agree to disagree.

I prefer to think of people and you prefer to think of animals.

One thing is certain though and that is the need for water to sustain ALL forms of life.

[cumgranosalum]

I live on the other side of the Mae Wong national park and our water supply also comes from the Mae Wong national park.

At least it would do if there was any water to have.

Our supply stopped in mid December 2015 and until there has been at least a months rain it will not return. We had some heavy rain on Wednesday night for an hour or so and the rain which didn't run off just soaked the surface. It was the first rain for 6 weeks.

Whilst I appreciate that tigers live there nobody has actually seen them for many years. The area they are talking about is less than 20 km/sq and the area or the national park is 894 km/sq.

The Mae Wong river which flows out from that side causes flooding and crop damage as far as 30km downstream in the really wet season which is about 3 years in every 8 and in a drought season such as now cuts the available water supply to many villages.

If and when the dam building starts the animals that tiger use for a food supply and the tigers themselves will simply move further into the park to less accessible areas for humans and people still won't see them.

Most of the conservationists and tree huggers don't even live in the area and have no real idea of the problems that local people face on a yearly basis.

As fot the klong across the road that supplies water to quite a few villages around here, well that is now just a series of puddles slowly drying out and there is no water flowing at all.

Looks to me like you have failed to understand the issues - it not about “tigers live there” - or doubting that they are there.

Tigers are the apex predator of a whole eco- system. Indeed part of that system that tigers actually contribute to - it’s called a trophic cascade - is the streams that they and their prey rely on -(BTW - this cannot be replaced by a lake)

So the” small amount” of acreage would in actual fact have a domino effect of that system and in reality reduce the amount of water available to local people.

The “tree huggers” (this sort of stereotyping show a real lack of critical thinking on your part) as you call them are teams of scientists that have been working for up to 20 years analysing the effects of this dam and government report after government report has rejected it. It cannot be denied that this dam would make a lot of money for some - not locals - there will be govt contracts to be had for both construction and LOGGING, (The Burmese rosewood in the immediate area of the dam is both rare and incredibly valuable) - the roads built into the area will increase access both for poachers and later for development of resorts around the lake...all this will impinge and encroach on the local environment - this encroachment doesn’t stop at the water’s edge of the proposed dame it will infiltrate miles into the regional environment.

“If and when the dam building starts the animals that tiger use for a food supply and the tigers themselves will simply move further into the park to less accessible areas for humans and people still won't see them.”

- this is a complete fallacy - animals require certain acreage and have territories, they can’t just “move” to another place, there are already animals there. All the flora and fauna of an eco-system are interlinked, they don’t just hang around regardless, they need the right food in the right place in the right topography and they also need to be undisturbed by human workings.

Many of the locals have been recruited by officials who want to see this dam built - in reality it WON’T bring any water to the area, the dam is actually too small to be of any real benefit and the Mae Wong Stream too small..

“, Sasin Chalermlarp, chairman of the Seub Nakhasathien Foundation, told experts conducting the environment and health impact assessment (EHIA) that building a dam inside Mae Wong National Park in Nakhon Sawan is not worth the investment as it has a very low water storage capacity of around 200 million cubic metres.

Normally, a big dam can store one billion cu/m of water. Mr Sasin said if the government insists on building the dam in the national park, the tigers living in the adjoining Huai Kha Khaeng Wildlife Sanctuary — the largest tiger habitat in Southeast Asia — will lose their home.”

As for locals benefitting, there is actually no guarantee however an alternative scheme would directly benefit locals....

“Mr Sasin said the foundation had earlier proposed an alternative type of water management, suggesting locals living in water-insecure locations dig household ponds to store water during the dry season.

There is no need to lose a fertile forest complex when ponds can hold over 250 million cu/m of water and are six times cheaper to build”

This scheme is currently under scrutiny by the government - it woiuld seem that those who want the dam feel te argument is not going their way....again.....and hope that the fear of drought can be used to hoodwink the public.

conservationist

you may not also realize that the Royal Irrigation Project is not the only body nationally concerned with water supply and the bodies are at loggerheads - I’ll let you work out what’s going on there....but the former is locked into really dated ideas about water supply.

You and I have had this argument before and we can only agree to disagree.

I prefer to think of people and you prefer to think of animals.

One thing is certain though and that is the need for water to sustain ALL forms of life.

Even your assessment of how we disagree is incorrect...and you don't understand that to sustain life the water has to be in an appropriate form.as you'll find out if they ever build the dam.

[GuestHouse]

I live on the other side of the Mae Wong national park and our water supply also comes from the Mae Wong national park.

At least it would do if there was any water to have.

Our supply stopped in mid December 2015 and until there has been at least a months rain it will not return. We had some heavy rain on Wednesday night for an hour or so and the rain which didn't run off just soaked the surface. It was the first rain for 6 weeks.

Whilst I appreciate that tigers live there nobody has actually seen them for many years. The area they are talking about is less than 20 km/sq and the area or the national park is 894 km/sq.

The Mae Wong river which flows out from that side causes flooding and crop damage as far as 30km downstream in the really wet season which is about 3 years in every 8 and in a drought season such as now cuts the available water supply to many villages.

If and when the dam building starts the animals that tiger use for a food supply and the tigers themselves will simply move further into the park to less accessible areas for humans and people still won't see them.

Most of the conservationists and tree huggers don't even live in the area and have no real idea of the problems that local people face on a yearly basis.

As fot the klong across the road that supplies water to quite a few villages around here, well that is now just a series of puddles slowly drying out and there is no water flowing at all.

The purpose of an environmental impact analysis is, amongst other things, to gather the views and opinions of local people and place these in context of a systematic scientifically based assessment of what the existing environmental conditions are and how they might change due to the project.

Up until now the proposals for the dam have not been able to produce even near credible Environmental Impact Studies, while the proponents of the alternative multiple smaller dams have.

Your if and when assessment of what the impacts would be on the local fauna have not been supported by the EIS and are little more than a uneducated guess. Not a good basis for implementing an irreversible change in the environment (even if it is over the hill and out of your own personal line of sight).

[cumgranosalum]

There have been 5 reports into this dam...none have recommended it...

"Sasin Chalermlarp, president of the Seub Nakhasathien Foundation, revealed that there was still no official feedback from the government or Irrigation Department to his suggestion that smaller, integrated water management projects be set up. These, he said, could store up to 200 million cubic metres of water and would be six times cheaper than building the Mae Wong Dam." - the Nation

one has to conclude that the interested parties in this dam have other conccerns than either irrigation or flood prevention - one suspects that the huge sums of money that would be made available are clouding people's judgement.

[BookMan]

If and when the dam building starts the animals that tiger use for a food supply and the tigers themselves will simply move further into the park to less accessible areas for humans and people still won't see them.

Most of the conservationists and tree huggers don't even live in the area and have no real idea of the problems that local people face on a yearly basis.

Maybe the people in the area like yourself need to adjust to the conditions better, or move to another area

[cumgranosalum]

The idea that the dam will help locals needs to be examined thoroughly - it appears to be pure pie-in-the-sky, propaganda.

[cumgranosalum]

If and when the dam building starts the animals that tiger use for a food supply and the tigers themselves will simply move further into the park to less accessible areas for humans and people still won't see them.

Most of the conservationists and tree huggers don't even live in the area and have no real idea of the problems that local people face on a yearly basis.

Maybe the people in the area like yourself need to adjust to the conditions better, or move to another area

i think bild now realises that his statement is utter nonsense.