Thai school corruption I was not aware of!

Moti24 · March 3, 2016

After teaching in Thailand for the best part of 10 years, I have probably seen it all. Students are told not to ask questions of any Thai teacher, and just accept what they are told is correct. I have seen Thai teachers, who can't speak English, teaching English classes, Thai teachers turning up 20 minutes late for lessons and leaving 20 minutes early, Thai teachers getting a massage from their students during an extra class, the list goes on...

As far as Foreign teachers are concerned, some of those are no better. I have seen Foreign teachers sleeping in the staff room instead of going to lessons, Foreign teachers with no understanding of Grammar teaching the upper grades, Foreign teachers playing games on their phone while the students run riot around the class, the list goes on...

I am fed up seeing tweets on ajarn.com from people saying they are thinking of teaching in Thailand and looking after the elephants, people who want to teach in Thailand and be near a beach, people who use the internet as the sole supplier of worksheets, the list goes on...

Well, I retired early because I was fed up watching these Foreign teachers collect their salary at the end of the month, knowing that their students still couldn't put a sentence together.

Congratulations to the M.O.E for allowing all this to happen. The only Foreign teachers you will get now are the back-packers and the illiterate spongers.

henrickkur · March 3, 2016

I have a lot to say about this topic, especially the "I'm not aware" part of it.

Did you know a Thai teacher can 'draw' most of their future earnings RIGHT NOW!

Let that sink in.....

New teacher=no money, sign contract with government get money now! Its my money, I want it now!

I can't remember the exact % but it is above 80%.

Do the math, we are talking big money! (30+- years X salary)

Do you think teacher wants to teach making >20%? for the next 30 years?

Most teachers where I live run a Internet shop, kids play hookie, kids get plagiarism assignments to print print print. Kids pay internet, kids skip school to play internet

shop. Kids get to go to see the aircraft carrier, kids go to temple, kids go to camp. lots and lots of not learning especially the plagiarism part. When I was my kids age I was writing my own stories, writing about topics and doing my own research.

Amazing! I have a lot more I can say, but the kicker is the fist paragraph. I have never seen anybody else mention that part of the problem ever. Teachers don't teach because they spent the money already.

When teacher mess's up, teacher gets transfer to another place. Teacher keeps private car paid by 1st paragraph, gets new government allowance for apt, or rent a house if government apt not available. No accountability. period

This works great for me, because I like Thailand to always be a cheap place to live with lots of servants.

willyumiii · March 3, 2016

I have a lot to say about this topic, especially the "I'm not aware" part of it.

Did you know a Thai teacher can 'draw' most of their future earnings RIGHT NOW!

Let that sink in.....

New teacher=no money, sign contract with government get money now! Its my money, I want it now!

I can't remember the exact % but it is above 80%.

Do the math, we are talking big money! (30+- years X salary)

Do you think teacher wants to teach making >20%? for the next 30 years?

Most teachers where I live run a Internet shop, kids play hookie, kids get plagiarism assignments to print print print. Kids pay internet, kids skip school to play internet

shop. Kids get to go to see the aircraft carrier, kids go to temple, kids go to camp. lots and lots of not learning especially the plagiarism part. When I was my kids age I was writing my own stories, writing about topics and doing my own research.

Amazing! I have a lot more I can say, but the kicker is the fist paragraph. I have never seen anybody else mention that part of the problem ever. Teachers don't teach because they spent the money already.

When teacher mess's up, teacher gets transfer to another place. Teacher keeps private car paid by 1st paragraph, gets new government allowance for apt, or rent a house if government apt not available. No accountability. period

This works great for me, because I like Thailand to always be a cheap place to live with lots of servants.

Judging from your post, I am willing to make a guess about your history.

Either you learned English in the Thai school system,

or you did not pay much attention in class where ever you did go to school.

Hint" I do not see any paragraphs in your post at all!

Let that sink in!

jacky54 · March 3, 2016

Nobody expects the grammar inquisition, boring.

tinat · March 3, 2016

After teaching in Thailand for the best part of 10 years, I have probably seen it all. Students are told not to ask questions of any Thai teacher, and just accept what they are told is correct. I have seen Thai teachers, who can't speak English, teaching English classes, Thai teachers turning up 20 minutes late for lessons and leaving 20 minutes early, Thai teachers getting a massage from their students during an extra class, the list goes on...

As far as Foreign teachers are concerned, some of those are no better. I have seen Foreign teachers sleeping in the staff room instead of going to lessons, Foreign teachers with no understanding of Grammar teaching the upper grades, Foreign teachers playing games on their phone while the students run riot around the class, the list goes on...

I am fed up seeing tweets on ajarn.com from people saying they are thinking of teaching in Thailand and looking after the elephants, people who want to teach in Thailand and be near a beach, people who use the internet as the sole supplier of worksheets, the list goes on...

Well, I retired early because I was fed up watching these Foreign teachers collect their salary at the end of the month, knowing that their students still couldn't put a sentence together.

Congratulations to the M.O.E for allowing all this to happen. The only Foreign teachers you will get now are the back-packers and the illiterate spongers.

Seems you don't understand the rules of capitalization.

HauptmannUK · March 3, 2016

It can't always have been this bad. My wife is in her forties and attended elementary school in rural Isaan. Never went to high school. She can write very good Thai, with good grammar and tone marking (only ocassionally confusing ร and ล, which is understandable given Isaan dialect). Her maths is pretty good and she seems to have a good knowledge of Thai history and is not too bad at world geography. She can rattle-off kings, battles and a load of other stuff about Thailand, Lao and Burma. She recalls as a schoolchild having to go up to the front of class and write out sentences, recount fables etc. She never learned English, of course.

I work in high-tech and have a PhD in physics, but I certainly don't feel I've married an uneducated peasant. Was she just lucky or has it all gone wrong in recent years?

HauptmannUK · March 3, 2016

It can't always have been this bad. My wife is in her forties and attended elementary school in rural Isaan. Never went to high school. She can write very good Thai, with good grammar and tone marking (only ocassionally confusing ร and ล, which is understandable given Isaan dialect). Her maths is pretty good and she seems to have a good knowledge of Thai history and is not too bad at world geography. She can rattle-off kings, battles and a load of other stuff about Thailand, Lao and Burma. She recalls as a schoolchild having to go up to the front of class and write out sentences, recount fables etc. She never learned English, of course.

I work in high-tech and have a PhD in physics, but I certainly don't feel I've married an uneducated peasant. Was she just lucky or has it all gone wrong in recent years?

henrickkur · March 3, 2016

I have a lot to say about this topic, especially the "I'm not aware" part of it.

Did you know a Thai teacher can 'draw' most of their future earnings RIGHT NOW!

Let that sink in.....

New teacher=no money, sign contract with government get money now! Its my money, I want it now!

I can't remember the exact % but it is above 80%.

Do the math, we are talking big money! (30+- years X salary)

Do you think teacher wants to teach making >20%? for the next 30 years?

Most teachers where I live run a Internet shop, kids play hookie, kids get plagiarism assignments to print print print. Kids pay internet, kids skip school to play internet

shop. Kids get to go to see the aircraft carrier, kids go to temple, kids go to camp. lots and lots of not learning especially the plagiarism part. When I was my kids age I was writing my own stories, writing about topics and doing my own research.

Amazing! I have a lot more I can say, but the kicker is the fist paragraph. I have never seen anybody else mention that part of the problem ever. Teachers don't teach because they spent the money already.

When teacher mess's up, teacher gets transfer to another place. Teacher keeps private car paid by 1st paragraph, gets new government allowance for apt, or rent a house if government apt not available. No accountability. period

This works great for me, because I like Thailand to always be a cheap place to live with lots of servants.

Judging from your post, I am willing to make a guess about your history.

Either you learned English in the Thai school system,

or you did not pay much attention in class where ever you did go to school.

Hint" I do not see any paragraphs in your post at all!

Let that sink in!

Nice one Wilburt. Your the best. Best with conjunction, interjunction, nouns, verbs and paragraphs. Try thinking that not everybody uses a desktop computer on TV.

Your better then me Willy in every way.

tinat · March 4, 2016

I have a lot to say about this topic, especially the "I'm not aware" part of it.

Did you know a Thai teacher can 'draw' most of their future earnings RIGHT NOW!

Let that sink in.....

New teacher=no money, sign contract with government get money now! Its my money, I want it now!

I can't remember the exact % but it is above 80%.

Do the math, we are talking big money! (30+- years X salary)

Do you think teacher wants to teach making >20%? for the next 30 years?

Most teachers where I live run a Internet shop, kids play hookie, kids get plagiarism assignments to print print print. Kids pay internet, kids skip school to play internet

shop. Kids get to go to see the aircraft carrier, kids go to temple, kids go to camp. lots and lots of not learning especially the plagiarism part. When I was my kids age I was writing my own stories, writing about topics and doing my own research.

Amazing! I have a lot more I can say, but the kicker is the fist paragraph. I have never seen anybody else mention that part of the problem ever. Teachers don't teach because they spent the money already.

When teacher mess's up, teacher gets transfer to another place. Teacher keeps private car paid by 1st paragraph, gets new government allowance for apt, or rent a house if government apt not available. No accountability. period

This works great for me, because I like Thailand to always be a cheap place to live with lots of servants.

Judging from your post, I am willing to make a guess about your history.

Either you learned English in the Thai school system,

or you did not pay much attention in class where ever you did go to school.

Hint" I do not see any paragraphs in your post at all!

Let that sink in!

Nice one Wilburt. Your the best. Best with conjunction, interjunction, nouns, verbs and paragraphs. Try thinking that not everybody uses a desktop computer on TV.

Your better then me Willy in every way.

What is that?

Lorn · March 4, 2016

I have a lot to say about this topic, especially the "I'm not aware" part of it.

Did you know a Thai teacher can 'draw' most of their future earnings RIGHT NOW!

Let that sink in.....

New teacher=no money, sign contract with government get money now! Its my money, I want it now!

I can't remember the exact % but it is above 80%.

Do the math, we are talking big money! (30+- years X salary)

Do you think teacher wants to teach making >20%? for the next 30 years?

Most teachers where I live run a Internet shop, kids play hookie, kids get plagiarism assignments to print print print. Kids pay internet, kids skip school to play internet

shop. Kids get to go to see the aircraft carrier, kids go to temple, kids go to camp. lots and lots of not learning especially the plagiarism part. When I was my kids age I was writing my own stories, writing about topics and doing my own research.

Amazing! I have a lot more I can say, but the kicker is the fist paragraph. I have never seen anybody else mention that part of the problem ever. Teachers don't teach because they spent the money already.

When teacher mess's up, teacher gets transfer to another place. Teacher keeps private car paid by 1st paragraph, gets new government allowance for apt, or rent a house if government apt not available. No accountability. period

This works great for me, because I like Thailand to always be a cheap place to live with lots of servants.

Judging from your post, I am willing to make a guess about your history.

Either you learned English in the Thai school system,

or you did not pay much attention in class where ever you did go to school.

Hint" I do not see any paragraphs in your post at all!

Let that sink in!

Nice one Wilburt. Your the best. Best with conjunction, interjunction, nouns, verbs and paragraphs. Try thinking that not everybody uses a desktop computer on TV.

Your better then me Willy in every way.

What is that?

Maybe he meant interjection? Surprised you didn't correct his your/you're issues too. On the other hand I'm sure you meant wherever not 'where ever'.

simonuk · March 5, 2016

They really need to clear out the educational system and start again from scratch.

And the police.

And the.....

The short list would be establishments that are running smoothly and clear of corruption.

Can anyone name one?

misterfloppy · March 5, 2016

The sharp end of the 'patronage' system, perhaps?

PT4 · March 5, 2016

simonuk wrote:

"The short list would be establishments that are running smoothly and clear of corruption. Can anyone name one?

.

"Simonuk" asks the key question. In every society, institutions like education and law enforcement are derived from the values of the underlying culture. It is simply impossible to "clear out" and "start from scratch" as suggested previously. Any attempts to do so would result in new bad ideas on top of old bad ideas. Any effective clearing out and starting over can only be done in the wake of a major calamity: war or overwhelming natural disaster.

This thread is an excellent reminder of why I do as much as possible to avoid anything operated by locals. If I had children here, they would be home schooled or attend international/parochial schools. Not just to achieve a higher academic standard, but so the children would be immersed in Western values throughout their growing years.

otherstuff1957 · March 5, 2016

simonuk wrote:

"The short list would be establishments that are running smoothly and clear of corruption. Can anyone name one?

.
"Simonuk" asks the key question. In every society, institutions like education and law enforcement are derived from the values of the underlying culture. It is simply impossible to "clear out" and "start from scratch" as suggested previously. Any attempts to do so would result in new bad ideas on top of old bad ideas. Any effective clearing out and starting over can only be done in the wake of a major calamity: war or overwhelming natural disaster.

This thread is an excellent reminder of why I do as much as possible to avoid anything operated by locals. If I had children here, they would be home schooled or attend international/parochial schools. Not just to achieve a higher academic standard, but so the children would be immersed in Western values throughout their growing years.

I would avoid the Catholic Schools here. I taught at one for about 3 years and, aside from uglier uniforms and higher prices, there is little to distinguish them from the government schools.

Jeremy50 · March 5, 2016

It's the older teachers who usually control the 'tuition' racket. A young Thai teacher can't just come in and set up shop. Generally the senior 5 teachers of the English Department will be actively promoting their after school classes,using the class time at school for advertising. Otherwise school time for most Thai teachers is for socializing, eating, and some marking if they have time. Then of course there are the seminars, learning camps at school, ASEAN camps, and English camps which take place over 3 days, and involve long bus journeys and hotels. All these activities are carefully costed for maximum profit, proceeds are often handed out at the end of the school year, which is why you will often see teachers in the staff room using the school computers to browse new cars, clothes etc, come March.

Don't criticize this corruption, or you probably won't make it to the end of the year. Thai teachers will badmouth you to the students, and then go and boast and laugh about it to their nefarious buddies in the staffroom. What a lovely bunch.

Jeremy50 · March 5, 2016

simonuk wrote:

"The short list would be establishments that are running smoothly and clear of corruption. Can anyone name one?

.
"Simonuk" asks the key question. In every society, institutions like education and law enforcement are derived from the values of the underlying culture. It is simply impossible to "clear out" and "start from scratch" as suggested previously. Any attempts to do so would result in new bad ideas on top of old bad ideas. Any effective clearing out and starting over can only be done in the wake of a major calamity: war or overwhelming natural disaster.

This thread is an excellent reminder of why I do as much as possible to avoid anything operated by locals. If I had children here, they would be home schooled or attend international/parochial schools. Not just to achieve a higher academic standard, but so the children would be immersed in Western values throughout their growing years.

I would avoid the Catholic Schools here. I taught at one for about 3 years and, aside from uglier uniforms and higher prices, there is little to distinguish them from the government schools.

Smaller classes, better equipment, all classrooms with air-con, better motivated students. Maybe none of that matters to you. Girls wear long sleeves, otherwise the uniforms are the same.

willyumiii · March 5, 2016

simonuk wrote:

"The short list would be establishments that are running smoothly and clear of corruption. Can anyone name one?

.
"Simonuk" asks the key question. In every society, institutions like education and law enforcement are derived from the values of the underlying culture. It is simply impossible to "clear out" and "start from scratch" as suggested previously. Any attempts to do so would result in new bad ideas on top of old bad ideas. Any effective clearing out and starting over can only be done in the wake of a major calamity: war or overwhelming natural disaster.

This thread is an excellent reminder of why I do as much as possible to avoid anything operated by locals. If I had children here, they would be home schooled or attend international/parochial schools. Not just to achieve a higher academic standard, but so the children would be immersed in Western values throughout their growing years.

I would avoid the Catholic Schools here. I taught at one for about 3 years and, aside from uglier uniforms and higher prices, there is little to distinguish them from the government schools.

A major distinction is the brand of oppressive, sexest, superstition they teach. It's called Christianity...and it comes with it's own unique kinds of corruption.

BruceMangosteen · March 5, 2016

Whoever it was who had insight on currying sexual favors from the new/young female teachers please tell me more? I've never even been able to hold her hand. Thanks.

puchooay · March 6, 2016

simonuk wrote:

"The short list would be establishments that are running smoothly and clear of corruption. Can anyone name one?

.
"Simonuk" asks the key question. In every society, institutions like education and law enforcement are derived from the values of the underlying culture. It is simply impossible to "clear out" and "start from scratch" as suggested previously. Any attempts to do so would result in new bad ideas on top of old bad ideas. Any effective clearing out and starting over can only be done in the wake of a major calamity: war or overwhelming natural disaster.

This thread is an excellent reminder of why I do as much as possible to avoid anything operated by locals. If I had children here, they would be home schooled or attend international/parochial schools. Not just to achieve a higher academic standard, but so the children would be immersed in Western values throughout their growing years.

I would avoid the Catholic Schools here. I taught at one for about 3 years and, aside from uglier uniforms and higher prices, there is little to distinguish them from the government schools.

Smaller classes, better equipment, all classrooms with air-con, better motivated students. Maybe none of that matters to you. Girls wear long sleeves, otherwise the uniforms are the same.

How many Catholic schools have you been to? Obviously not all of them.

Stone Inscription 1 · March 6, 2016

Some of this sounds similar to the situation in Canadian private schools. If your child is doing poorly in regular high school, just send him/her to a private school and the student who was struggling to achieve a fifty will now be getting over 90%. Some of the owners of these private schools (many of whom are Chinese and Indians) just ask the student what mark is desired and that is it. In Canada's major city, Toronto, there is a Jewish private school that has never graduated anyone but that gives out 90%+ to anyone who pays the fees to take one of their classes.

Anastasios · March 7, 2016

Quite seriously. I have taught at a Thai university and several high schools, including a top ranked one for an entire province. Education means two things... everywhere, not just in Thailand. One is to acquire a love of learning, and usually that's something special that happens. The other is indocrination and obedience. In Thailand, education is about the latter almost wholly. That's why nothing can make a Thai teacher more happy and proud than to oversee a student diligently copying another students work or something straight out of a book or off the internet etc. As one example, but a good one. The Thai system also rewards those who are good at memorizing what they are told, and not ever questioning any of it. Assessments are done just so there is paperwork. This is the way it is for almost all public and private schools in Thailand. School is also about having fun. It's very depressing to think about or be a part of it in any manner. In Thailand, "student" is someone of a certain age who attends school or university. In the west, if you ever stop being a student you never were a student. Very different concepts and culture. I have yet to live in any major Thai town or even a provincial capitol and know, or even know who to ask, where the main branch public library is. Let alone the local branch. Hospital? yeah. Airport? yeah. Post office? Yeah. Local public library? Nope. At home I can find my way to a local library with my eyes closed.

I wonder which western school you are talking about which provides its students with a love of learning. In my school in Sweden, we had kids with knives in school. I can not remember learning a single thing from my teachers - I was an avid user of the internet and studied various subjects on my own.

By the way, this type of corruption is very common. At least the alternative to getting the possibility to learn exists. In Greece its called "φροντιστήριο", where you pay for an afternoon class to get an explanation of what the morning class meant.

A Lurker · March 8, 2016

Here's the million baht question though: why isn't there affordable private schools coming onto the market to fill the gap between dysfunctional government schools, awful for-profit schools and insanely high priced private schools?

Couple of possibilities:

- private schools are employing the same pool of Thai teachers with poor teaching ability and corrupt habits?

- good farang teachers too expensive?

- Government licensing costs a bomb?

- still have to follow crap government curriculum?

- all of the above?

I have no problem with for-profit schools: if you are overwhelming a good quality, non-corrupt, disciplined school the demand would be overwhelming.

For whatever reason though these type of schools do not seem to exist.

BruceMangosteen · March 8, 2016

Here's the million baht question though: why isn't there affordable private schools coming onto the market to fill the gap between dysfunctional government schools, awful for-profit schools and insanely high priced private schools?

Couple of possibilities:

- private schools are employing the same pool of Thai teachers with poor teaching ability and corrupt habits?

- good farang teachers too expensive?

- Government licensing costs a bomb?

- still have to follow crap government curriculum?

- all of the above?

I have no problem with for-profit schools: if you are overwhelming a good quality, non-corrupt, disciplined school the demand would be overwhelming.

For whatever reason though these type of schools do not seem to exist.

You are allowing those on here to skew your opinion of the situation. You see mate, this is a third world country and they do the best they can. All these farangs with their ideas, well, the Thai's don't to know what they think. It's better here than many countries and things change over time. Your and perhaps my perception of "better" is not only of no merit here, it matters now. Love it or leave it. You aren't going to fix it on Thai Visa or any other place. Money talks, BS walks in the third world. Education is about money here and actually, most if not all other countries as well. Have you ever seen the wages earned by administrators in the USA? The "governments" are paying these folks way over the top, to the point it would be called corruption but it isn't. Why not? And why to so many come on here and call the Thai's corrupt when they do the exact same thing?

A Lurker · March 8, 2016

"Your and perhaps my perception of "better" is not only of no merit here"

No, sorry, the school system here sucks. Put your kids in it and find out. That's an objective fact, not a "perception".

And spare us the 'love it or leave it line'. I do love it here and the school system sucks. See it is possible to hold different opinions on different things.

Sorry not to confirm to your lazy stereotype.

Mate.

BruceMangosteen · March 8, 2016

"Your and perhaps my perception of "better" is not only of no merit here"

No, sorry, the school system here sucks. Put your kids in it and find out. That's an objective fact, not a "perception".

And spare us the 'love it or leave it line'. I do love it here and the school system sucks. See it is possible to hold different opinions on different things.

Sorry not to confirm to your lazy stereotype.

Mate.

Sorry you don't get the message. I left out a few words, typed too quickly. To sum it up for you mate, the Thai's don't five a damn what you or any other farang thinks of their education system. In addition, I was reminding you that it isn't perfect any place including the U.S.A.. Take a look at inner city schools for your context and example. The people with real money can get their kids a real education. Otherwise, you will get what the Government offers. In a third world country, there are fewer people with real money, hence, not so many of those referred to "middle" of the road schools. It's either real money or Government schools. End of story. Cheers.

otherstuff1957 · March 8, 2016

Here's the million baht question though: why isn't there affordable private schools coming onto the market to fill the gap between dysfunctional government schools, awful for-profit schools and insanely high priced private schools?

Couple of possibilities:

- private schools are employing the same pool of Thai teachers with poor teaching ability and corrupt habits?

- good farang teachers too expensive?

- Government licensing costs a bomb?

- still have to follow crap government curriculum?

- all of the above?

I have no problem with for-profit schools: if you are overwhelming a good quality, non-corrupt, disciplined school the demand would be overwhelming.

For whatever reason though these type of schools do not seem to exist.

EP programs and private schools often do offer a better education than a standard government school, but they are hampered by the points that you listed above. In addition:

The Thai curriculum is horrible.... 17 subjects per semester????!!!

They usually stick to the no-fail policy, so many students lose their motivation.

High turnover of foreign teachers. Schools need to stop hiring cute 22 year olds who are just here for one year. Teachers with reasons to stay here are much more reliable and won't leave as soon as their learning curve flattens out!

Finally, if the school was truly organized and disciplined, many parents would leave to find a more accommodating school that would hand out 4.0s without students having to earn them.

Edited March 8, 2016 by otherstuff1957

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