Business Group Calls for 5-Year Professional Visas for Expats

[lkv]

...

I have had an IT company in Thailand for years. Small company, but it paid the bills. I didn't have to form a company, but I wanted to do the right thing and pay may taxes here. That's one way to contribute to the country which have provided me a place to live. Nothing wrong with that.

One of the reasons I'm leaving the country is the yearly visa. To renew the visa is one of the most humiliating days in my life, sometime two days as there is always some small thing which have changed, and have to be corrected.

On psychological side, renewing the visa each year, means instability. I had always 97% confidence that I'll get the new visa and work permit, each year, without overly too much trouble.. but the rest 3% is what makes me along with my other friends quite agitated for an month prior to the visa renewal. And we are the guys who try to do everything by the book, pay our taxes and eventually give something extra to this country.

...

While nomads live here, they spend their money here. That is a direct injection of money to the Thai economy, coming from outside to inside of Thailand. Thailand should brace these people and let them live. It's not like Thailand would give them huge social security benefits or unemployment money, like we sometimes do in the west.

I'm going to get grilled for saying this

Firstly, to begin with, I am not an income tax fan. I believe I'm helping the economy enough by purchasing import food at 100% import tax, buying Marlboro Silver at 120 baht per pack 2 packs a day, out of which 90% of it goes to the Gvt, and various other products.

Now for the more "ethical" people, that want to give something extra to the country, I believe this country does not deserve it, particularly because they are treating us like walking ATM's, and secondly because there are no benefits attached to it. It's all just a ripoff scheme to get as much from the Farang pocket and move into Thai pocket (see real estate, marriage laws, etc).

Failed. What digital nomads need is not a different visa. What needed is a possibility to get a work permit and be able to pay taxes.

No, I believe that's incorrect. Some of us enjoy paying little or zero tax by fully respecting laws in our home countries or the places we may find ourselves in.

So we don't need to be allowed to pay taxes, thank you.

All you got to do is to invest 2M in an illegally formed company with nominees and hire four Thais to do nothing for the unforeseeable future. What they neglect to see is that there's an easier way to achieve the same result, just throwing your money in a bonfire.

The 2M does not have to be paid up capital.

[Charlie69]

I wonder what would fall under highly skilled. Would a managing director be in highly skilled category?

Then visa is only half of the issue, how about wort permits for 5 years as well.

The U.S. encourages professions from foreign countries to go there.

They are seeking for example, Medical Doctors, Dentists, and people who are skilled in Finance.

[hkt83100]

Do I see a few people playing Candy Crush in the picture above?

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts have been removed.

[noitom]

They have no health insurance in Thailand

[lkv]

They have no health insurance in Thailand

Yup that's a fair comment.

Although if you keep yourself healthy, you pay for insurance more in a lifetime than for the treatment.

If you're in a good financial position or you manage your money well, you can effectively self insure (savings)

And for people that don't want to take that risk there's always private insurance.

But yeah that's just my take on things.

Actually public health insurance in Thailand sounds good, I believe public hospitals are good, the question is how much would it cost and on what minimum declared salary and would it be a bargain or not?

Meaning, would it be worth maintaining a company just to access the public health system as opposed to choosing private insurance?

Edited March 2, 2016 by lkv

[JLCrab]

Just to note from the linked Khaosod article:

"Now we give visas case by case, which takes time to issue, and the time permitted to stay is short, which is why Thailand doesn’t have many talented researchers and academics.”

Maybe this is what they have in mind when they say 'professional'.

Edited March 2, 2016 by JLCrab

[lkv]

Researcher.

Yup, sounds good

Gimme a 5 year multiple Non - RS.

Thanks

And then I woke up.

[stickylies]

Makes sense, encouraging more under 50s and digital nomads to base themselves in Thailand would be a positive for the economy.

also positive for the quality of farang sperm

[JLCrab]

Researcher.

Yup, sounds good

Gimme a 5 year multiple Non - RS.

Thanks

And then I woke up.

I realize the English language is very malleable but for some it seems they would have no problem saying at one moment that their purpose in Thailand is strictly for pleasure purposes as per Tourist Visa requirements and then the next moment saying they are Highly-skilled professional academics and/or researchers.

Edited March 2, 2016 by JLCrab

[jspill]

Just to note from the linked Khaosod article:

"Now we give visas case by case, which takes time to issue, and the time permitted to stay is short, which is why Thailand doesn’t have many talented researchers and academics.”

Maybe this is what they have in mind when they say 'professional'.

The article also says they badly need more IT professionals.

[jspill]

I realize the English language is very malleable but for some it seems they would have no problem saying at one moment that their purpose in Thailand is strictly for pleasure purposes as per Tourist Visa requirements and then the next moment saying they are Highly-skilled professional academics and/or researchers.

You always assert that 'employment prohibited' on tourist visa requirements doesn't just refer to working for a Thai entity, but includes all digital nomads even a casual blogger on the beach cashing out some Paypal funds.

So you're also fond of using language flexibly and having your own opinions and interpretations.

[stickylies]

The vast majority of TVF members need not apply, as they can't even spell.

I fall into this category of highly specialized skills. I have a Thai company BEGGING me to work with them for 75,000 baht a month.

I'd rather be beat in the ass with a mad rattlesnake than take that offer.

i hear ya, i truly do. i was offered 18.000thb/week to work just a couple of hours a day. i kid you not. which is btw just peanuts compared to what i'm "worth" (at home i used to make a basic thai monthly salary per HOUR as a self-employed)... i wasn't interested either, although i admit i did ask TVF what my eventual "advantages" would have been accepting a job here. anyway, meanwhile i left LOS and have enjoyed eastern europe (a lot of potential!), italy (i go for food and culture only) and south america (nature à gogo). i will go back to LOS a couple of times each year for r&r (ie. nature, food, book+hammock) but that's all i'm willing to do in/for (current) thailand. great country, great people, lousy "leadership", yellow or red, same same.

[JLCrab]

I realize the English language is very malleable but for some it seems they would have no problem saying at one moment that their purpose in Thailand is strictly for pleasure purposes as per Tourist Visa requirements and then the next moment saying they are Highly-skilled professional academics and/or researchers.

You always assert that 'employment prohibited' on tourist visa requirements doesn't just refer to working for a Thai entity, but includes all digital nomads even a casual blogger on the beach cashing out some Paypal funds.

So you're also fond of using language flexibly and having your own opinions and interpretations.

Maybe so but I ain't the one here building websites on a tourist visa and calling it a pleasure trip as a true-&-complete declaration of the purpose of my visit.

The Thai Ministry of Science & Technology is well on record that they are looking for foreigners who will provide jobs and technology transfer -- not one-man shows who sit in a shared work-space and say that they don't need to hire or train anybody.

Edited March 2, 2016 by JLCrab

[jspill]

Until a country creates an 'online worker' status (Germany has a freelancer visa, Estonia give 'e-residence', etc.) then aren't digital nomads still classed as being here for pleasure? Nothing they do has any link to a resident entity in Thailand, they could choose to go anywhere. At the most it's a grey area.

[jspill]

The Thai Ministry of Science & Technology is well on record that they are looking for foreigners who will provide jobs and technology transfer -- not one-man shows who sit in a shared work-space and say that they don't need to hire or train anybody.

They're not on record saying they don't want or tolerate other digital nomads though.

[JLCrab]

The Thai Ministry of Science & Technology is well on record that they are looking for foreigners who will provide jobs and technology transfer -- not one-man shows who sit in a shared work-space and say that they don't need to hire or train anybody.

They're not on record saying they don't want or tolerate other digital nomads though.

They have said what they want. 'Tolerate' -- that's a good one.

[lkv]

Researcher.

Yup, sounds good

Gimme a 5 year multiple Non - RS.

Thanks

And then I woke up.

I realize the English language is very malleable but for some it seems they would have no problem saying at one moment that their purpose in Thailand is strictly for pleasure purposes as per Tourist Visa requirements and then the next moment saying they are Highly-skilled professional academics and/or researchers.

Well, other people in the past wrote three articles about Thailand and became journalists, with a media visa.

So never say never.

[jspill]

They have said what they want. 'Tolerate' -- that's a good one.

They've said what they're working on attracting to Thailand.

They didn't say they'd turn away other, lesser digital nomads that come of their own accord though.

[JLCrab]

They have said what they want. 'Tolerate' -- that's a good one.

They've said what they're working on attracting to Thailand.

They didn't say they'd turn away other, lesser digital nomads that come of their own accord though.

They didn't say they'd give them 5-year visas either.

But I realize for some the interpretation of any ruling or statute is the 'me too' principle: Any statute or regulation should be interpreted to include me in the most favorable manner.

Edited March 2, 2016 by JLCrab

[jspill]

They didn't say they'd give them 5-year visas either.

But I realize for some the interpretation of any ruling or statute is the 'me too' principle: Any statute or regulation should be interpreted to include me in the most favorable manner.

Just the ability to stay here is fine, nomads don't expect a 5 year visa.

The 'me too' principle also applies to those that don't like other westerners coming to Thailand, because they want to feel special.

[JLCrab]

They didn't say they'd give them 5-year visas either.

But I realize for some the interpretation of any ruling or statute is the 'me too' principle: Any statute or regulation should be interpreted to include me in the most favorable manner.

Just the ability to stay here is fine, nomads don't expect a 5 year visa.

The 'me too' principle also applies to those that don't like other westerners coming to Thailand, because they want to feel special.

I don't give a sh*&^t what you do . I stay here in Thailand because the Bureau of Immigration now accepts my affidavit for extension of stay as being truthful in all respects. When people routinely make written declarations on Thai Government documents that are not truthful in all respects, that goes to possibly putting my declaration in jeopardy. That's why I care what goes on with the digital nomad crowd and for no other reason.

That goes for persons making false statements on their affidavits for extensions as well but that is a different topic.

Edited March 2, 2016 by JLCrab

[jspill]

I don't give a sh*&^t what you do . I stay here in Thailand because the Bureau of Immigration now accepts my affidavit for extension of stay as being truthful in all respects. When people routinely make written declarations on Thai Government documents that are not truthful in all respects, that goes to possibly putting my declaration in jeopardy. That's why I care what goes on with the digital nomad crowd and for no other reason.

That goes for persons making false statements on their affidavits for extensions as well but that is a different topic.

It's only a false statement in your opinion though. Nowhere in law does it currently say that the 'employent prohibited' declaration on tourist visas applies to digital nomads too. Don't you think Thailand would have addressed that by now if so? Not one has ever been prosecuted of a crime, in Thailand or any country to my knowledge.

What a bizarre thing to worry about. It's all in your own mind.

Edited March 2, 2016 by jspill

[lkv]

They didn't say they'd give them 5-year visas either.

But I realize for some the interpretation of any ruling or statute is the 'me too' principle: Any statute or regulation should be interpreted to include me in the most favorable manner.

Just the ability to stay here is fine, nomads don't expect a 5 year visa.

The 'me too' principle also applies to those that don't like other westerners coming to Thailand, because they want to feel special.

I don't give a sh*&^t what you do . I stay here in Thailand because the Bureau of Immigration now accepts my affidavit for extension of stay as being truthful in all respects. When people routinely make written declarations on Thai Government documents that are not truthful in all respects, that goes to possibly putting my declaration in jeopardy. That's why I care what goes on with the digital nomad crowd and for no other reason.

That goes for persons making false statements on their affidavits for extensions as well but that is a different topic.

Yup that's fine I get your point. You're irritated because you feel that because some have abused "the system" you are having problems right now.

Let me break it down for you, because apparently they managed to convince you that all the crackdowns are related to overstayers and visa runners.

If today I am a genuine tourist, tomorrow there is a potential I could be a researcher.

If I pay 500K baht, guess what happens? I become VIP tomorrow, not researcher.

It's not the overstayer's fault if they decide one day they wanna milk more money from you and invent silly extra requirements to make your life difficult unless you pay tea money.

You play by their rules, and they are taking a laugh.

I'm not saying you've got too much choice, but let's have a reality check here. It seems that in the last couple of months, all Thais became angels and all Foreigners criminals.

Edited March 2, 2016 by lkv

[JLCrab]

You're d--amn right in my opinion it's a false statement. My opinion also is that the Labor Ministry and the Bureau of Immigration have told MOFA, if you continue to hand out tourist visas to persons staying long-term on tourist visas, don't expect us to do anything about it once they get here.

I do worry about it -- that's why I continually monitor the METV section because I think they one day might pull the plug on the affidavit because of people routinely providing mis-information as to their true intended purposes and circumstances.

To the note above, I am not having ANY problems right now. I would just like to keep it that way.

Edited March 2, 2016 by JLCrab

[kinmaew]

Sounds like something sensible like Singapore would do. Thailand would prefer to stay far right nationalist and have the majority live in abject poverty like they always have and always will (Unless the people being repressed grow some balls).

[JLCrab]

As to my bizarre attitude as mentioned above, maybe that is tempered by working 10 years in PRChina starting in the late 1980's with Communist Party officials who would not take it kindly if they ever thought your attitude toward them was in any way flippant.

[yellowboat]

Makes sense, encouraging more under 50s and digital nomads to base themselves in Thailand would be a positive for the economy.

Which economy ? There is the economy or the average person and then there is one for the elites. If memory serves, elites are not all that excited with having smart people around, let a lone in abundance with five year visas. Could have happened under Shinawatras, but not under the junta. The junta brought is some foreign experts to fix the airline industry, but it is doubtful their visas are more than a year. If there is a crisis, the junta might do it.

There are better places for digital nomads in Asia.

[ronwparker]

I hope they manage this but have little real chance of it happening.

[philippe3833]

This will never been considered because the target too way high. Not a single chance.

3 years should be a more reasonable target