UK police appeal for help to find Devon girl missing in Thailand

[Scouse Twoccer]

What I'm missing here? A father went to Thailand with is half Thai daughter, to see the kids family or ex wife the mother of the kid. Correct? They might stay with the ex wife, fell in love again??

Please enlighten me.

Don't know whether you're missing things, you are making things up that haven't been reported though. "Half Thai", "kid's family", "ex-wife", "fell in love again"? Bloody hell.

[technologybytes]

I am certain the the UK courts have no rights to demand that this man and his daughter return to the UK... The UK courts jurisdiction ends at the airport except for a few offences which can be tried in the UK for offences committed overseas, but still the court only has any power once the UK person(s) are are in the UK.

[cocorico2558]

At least once a Brit on the run and being searched for which is not linked to excessive use of mushrooms and other drugs!........

[Scouse Twoccer]

I'd be inclined to doubt any statements issued by the British local councils (aka Social Services or "child welfare") or the orders of the Family Court. We were also the target of these so-called child-protection agencies over a decade ago. The authorities were vicious and cruel and twisted everything (apparently perjury doesn't apply to police officers or social workers). It became bizarre in the extreme (e.g. I was accused in court of being a "vegetarian". We were also "neglecting" our children because we chose to homeschool them, which is perfectly legal in the UK under the Education Act, but that's another government department of course...)

We ended up battling the authorities for 3 years at a cost of nearly £500,000 and left the UK as soon as we could thereafter. Our children's wishes were blatantly ignored (illegal under the concept of "Voice of the Child"). I discovered that there are tens of thousands of families caught up in the same sticky web. I met one single mother who's 12-year old son was removed from her to be fostered by her mother (the reason: the mother was suffering from a debilitating blood disorder so didn't have the energy to care adequately for him; so the solution was to take him away, rather then provide home help and nursing care for the mother). What was stunningly cruel and bizarre was that the boy ran away regularly to rejoin his mother - and the police were sent to arrest him and take him back! I know another family who had their baby daughter forcibly removed and given away for adoption. They were not allowed to have any information about or contact with her. (The reason: the father had problems managing his anger...) Here's the insanely cruel part: they also had an 8-year old son who wasn't removed and who also wasn't allowed to have any contact with his sister. He couldn't understand why not and experienced all sorts of confused anguish. (I would consider that a good case of "emotional abuse"...) He was told that she wasn't his sister any more! This is legal in the UK. An adopted child is no longer deemed to be a member of his/her biological family, even if the child or his/her siblings want to remain in contact!

Nearly all the cases I came across involve the Social Services tearing families apart for the silliest of reasons - and it rarely boils down to anything really serious (like physical or sexual abuse). It's usually "concern for the child's welfare" or "emotional abuse" (which can be anything from hearing the parents arguing to having to deal with a parent's debilitating illness or possibly substance addiction) or "risk of neglect" (which can be not providing a proper breakfast in the morning, not keeping the fingernails clean, or homeschooling). In nearly every case, the problems could be more practically (and humanely) dealt with by providing funding, home help or after-school care - but the inevitable response to that is "we don't have sufficient resources". Yeah... but they seem to have unlimited resources when it comes to removing children to be fostered by strangers (who get paid around £400 per child per week) and spending time in court (average cost of litigation per case is around £400,000). That kind of money could keep a family in retirement (with all the support they could handle) for 20 years or at least until the children are adults!

My advice: leave Zara and Trevor alone. Let them live peacefully and without interference in Thailand and tell the UK authorities to go to hell.

As an advocate and practitioner of home-schooling and vegetarian with a propensity for long-winded irrelevant rants I doubt that anyone would want your advice particularly when it is as succinct as "go to hell".

[Scouse Twoccer]

I am certain the the UK courts have no rights to demand that this man and his daughter return to the UK... The UK courts jurisdiction ends at the airport except for a few offences which can be tried in the UK for offences committed overseas, but still the court only has any power once the UK person(s) are are in the UK.

I would imagine that the UK courts are a little better informed about their rights than you are.

[JeremyBowskill]

Yeah I don't put all that much stock in what Devon county Council/social services want, I was back in England less than a week in 2010 before the SS was at the door asking to check my kids vital statistics and general well being. Fine line between caring and sticking their f**kin noses in where it just isn't wanted or needed.

[Lostom]

The UK courts and SS have very wide ranging legal powers in the UK, fortunately they are of no consequence in Thailand. They can wave the big stick, huff and puff but without the father and daughter within their jurisdiction there is sweet FA they can do.

There is no law or statute in Thailand for abducting ones own children so they have not broken any laws here. Children under 15 do not need a visa, so as long as the fathers immigration status is sound he should have nothing to worry about.

I have some first hand experience of this and my advice to the father would be to ignore the SS & judiciary cants back in England, do not listen to or co operate with anything they suggest. The UKSS are nothing more than a bunch of self serving sycophants to a corrupted and bloated legal establishment.

If the father wants to PM me I can give advice in relation to my own dealings with UK family courts.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Lostom

[tom21]

if I knew where they were I would not mention it. it looks like a case of a female can bring a child up but not a male. they asking for the child to be returned to the uk not the father

[sawadee1947]

hmmmh, many Brits got lost in the past....

[Baerboxer]

Sounds like they emigrated to Thailand. What's the issue ? Did they forget to fill out some forms or something ?

Of course everything will be shrouded in secrecy so we will never be told the truth about what's actually going on here.

Sounds to me, after reading the full article, that there are concerns about the girls welfare (could me a variety if things I guess) and her family.

Though if that is the case I'm at a loss as to why she was allowed to leave the country with him.

One would imagine it was because there was no specific court order preventing it.

This does not appear to be a custody case (as your post might imply) but rather a concern for the child's welfare.

'Miles failed to attend a meeting arranged by Devon council to address concerns about the girl’s welfare. A judge has officially ordered that she be returned to the UK.'

I was basing my implication on the above. I could be wrong but it does seem that the concerns are fairly serious if a court is ordering her return to the UK. Then again I could be wrong but it seems odd that he was allowed to leave the country with his daughter if a court feels it necessary to order her return for this meeting.

Not odd at all. The Devon council, presumably social services, has arranged a meeting. No other action. There was no court order issued restricting the man or his daughters movements.

A father and daughter check-in and present passports to air line staff. Nothing pops up when they enter the details. UK Border Force don't routinely inspect passports on your way out. Even if they were doing a random check as they sometimes do, nothing would have popped up. Councils, and social service departments can't stop anyone travelling only a court can do that.

[Baerboxer]

The UK courts and SS have very wide ranging legal powers in the UK, fortunately they are of no consequence in Thailand. They can wave the big stick, huff and puff but without the father and daughter within their jurisdiction there is sweet FA they can do.

There is no law or statute in Thailand for abducting ones own children so they have not broken any laws here. Children under 15 do not need a visa, so as long as the fathers immigration status is sound he should have nothing to worry about.

I have some first hand experience of this and my advice to the father would be to ignore the SS & judiciary cants back in England, do not listen to or co operate with anything they suggest. The UKSS are nothing more than a bunch of self serving sycophants to a corrupted and bloated legal establishment.

If the father wants to PM me I can give advice in relation to my own dealings with UK family courts.

I think you'll find courts have wide legal powers in every country on earth!

UK social services are often shown to be disasters - populated by PC left wing feminists who often work for a council of a similar ilk. The "sterling" jobs they did in Rotherham and in various child deaths have shown them for what they are, incompetent, biased and far removed from reality.

UK Family court judges, are according to all my solicitor friends, the most baffling and unpredictable in their judgments. But rarely in the least bit favorable towards the father. Their advice is always to avoid litigation like the plague.

However, the Family Court judges are always supposed to act in the best interests of the child or children.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Baerboxer

[GuestHouse]

The UK courts and SS have very wide ranging legal powers in the UK, fortunately they are of no consequence in Thailand. They can wave the big stick, huff and puff but without the father and daughter within their jurisdiction there is sweet FA they can do.

There is no law or statute in Thailand for abducting ones own children so they have not broken any laws here. Children under 15 do not need a visa, so as long as the fathers immigration status is sound he should have nothing to worry about.

I have some first hand experience of this and my advice to the father would be to ignore the SS & judiciary cants back in England, do not listen to or co operate with anything they suggest. The UKSS are nothing more than a bunch of self serving sycophants to a corrupted and bloated legal establishment.

If the father wants to PM me I can give advice in relation to my own dealings with UK family courts.

Thailand is a signatory of the Hague convention on the protection of the rights of children.

You're own personal perspective on your own personal problems are probably interesting, but it a UK court orders a child be returned to the UK and that child is in Thailand then Thailand is legally bound under the convention to return the child to the UK.

[todlad]

Sounds like they emigrated to Thailand. What's the issue ? Did they forget to fill out some forms or something ?

Of course everything will be shrouded in secrecy so we will never be told the truth about what's actually going on here.

Father and daughter, gone missing, High Court Judge makes a ruling. Any clearer?

There is a problem because this pair have apparently stopped all communication with the family back home.

Wouldn't you worry if this was your partner and child?

[Lostom]

The Hague Convention does not trump Thai law, I don't know where you got that one from.

As I said, there is NO statute in Thailand for abduction of one's own children.

I can show QC's opinion, expensively obtained by UKSS, which confirms the validity of my statement.

[anto]

Having heard of the Satanic abuse of 2 children in Hampsted London by their Father (seperated from the mother ) ,who were taken away from their mother into care ,i would not trust Social services in England .The full story is on Youtube .''satanic sexual abuse of two children in Hampsted ,London ,UK .

[farcanell]

After a quick peek at the web, I see all the UK rags are running the same brief story, with the only meaningful exception, being the inclusion of the wording taken from their home.... " without permission".

Not sure who's permission was needed for a dad to "relocate" to Thailand.... Mothers perhaps, but this is not articulated, and as the use of "their" home is in all the articles, one would be forgiven for assuming that any other adult within the household would have given permission... Or cried foul on the day of their departure

Unfortunately, fathers (more than mothers) have been known to commit some pretty grim acts on their own children during marriage problems, but without being given more information about the topic , which I feel should be more forthcoming if the concern is really that grave, it's impossible to jump to any real conclusion about the family situation, and the right or wrong of it.

More information please, and perhaps there may be a more concerned response

[cyberfarang]

If I knew the whereabouts of the father I wouldn`t grass him up, not even for a reward. In England if he is estranged from his wife he has no chance against the British legal system that will be in favour of the child`s mother. He was right to get out the country. The girl is 12 years old and is old enough to make her own mind up which parent she prefers to be with even if the British legal system says different.

[smotherb]

Sounds like they emigrated to Thailand. What's the issue ? Did they forget to fill out some forms or something ?

Of course everything will be shrouded in secrecy so we will never be told the truth about what's actually going on here.

Sounds to me, after reading the full article, that there are concerns about the girls welfare (could me a variety if things I guess) and her family.

Though if that is the case I'm at a loss as to why she was allowed to leave the country with him.

Yes, the reporting is typically skewed, but it does say, " . . . Miles failed to attend a meeting arranged by Devon council to address concerns about the girl’s welfare. A judge has officially ordered that she be returned to the UK . . . " So, that may be the reason officials are seeking the girl. How they got out of the UK--chunnel?

[Shadychris]

Sounds like they emigrated to Thailand. What's the issue ? Did they forget to fill out some forms or something ?

Of course everything will be shrouded in secrecy so we will never be told the truth about what's actually going on here.

Maybe because at this point with no court proceedings, or even charges having been made, any possible personal family background events leading to this situation are actually none of our business...

[luckyman]

Everybody relax.

They will be found very soon, I believe.

They always do...

[farcanell]

Sounds like they emigrated to Thailand. What's the issue ? Did they forget to fill out some forms or something ?

Of course everything will be shrouded in secrecy so we will never be told the truth about what's actually going on here.

Maybe because at this point with no court proceedings, or even charges having been made, any possible personal family background events leading to this situation are actually none of our business...

I Could be wrong, but I believe that the UK authorities have made it our business by releasing a plea for help onto the international stage, especially to those of us in Thailand

It might not be along the lines of helping out, when asked "Can you carry this package thru customs for me, and don't worry about its contents, as it's none of your business"

But.... it is still a plea for help, and as such, surely a little explaination would be more likely to illicit a positive response.

Personally, I would prefer to know what I would be helping to achieve, in assisting "authorities" in any matter

[IAMHERE]

"Miles failed to attend a meeting arranged by Devon council to address concerns about the girl’s welfare. A judge has officially ordered that she be returned to the UK."

What is a council ? Is that the 'law' in the UK? I don't see where there is any concern for her welfare, Dad will take good care of her. I don't think Thailand should be sending there children to the UK just because some council says so.

A custody battle, no reason to think that Zara is in trouble.

[mihalis]

Sounds like a child custody, where father gets a stick rammed up his assssss

[Bluespunk]

One would imagine it was because there was no specific court order preventing it.

This does not appear to be a custody case (as your post might imply) but rather a concern for the child's welfare.

'Miles failed to attend a meeting arranged by Devon council to address concerns about the girl’s welfare. A judge has officially ordered that she be returned to the UK.'

I was basing my implication on the above. I could be wrong but it does seem that the concerns are fairly serious if a court is ordering her return to the UK. Then again I could be wrong but it seems odd that he was allowed to leave the country with his daughter if a court feels it necessary to order her return for this meeting.

Not odd at all. The Devon council, presumably social services, has arranged a meeting. No other action. There was no court order issued restricting the man or his daughters movements.

A father and daughter check-in and present passports to air line staff. Nothing pops up when they enter the details. UK Border Force don't routinely inspect passports on your way out. Even if they were doing a random check as they sometimes do, nothing would have popped up. Councils, and social service departments can't stop anyone travelling only a court can do that.

For me, the fact that a court has ordered their return to the UK indicates that this case is a serious one.

I don't know what the case is about and won't speculate on it, however if the case is such a one that a court orders the man to return, it indicates a level of seriousness that maybe a court order preventing the father and daughter leaving the country should have been issued. Maybe they left before any such action could be taken.

Of course, as I say, I could be wrong.

Just strikes me as odd, that's all.

[RapidMethod]

"Miles failed to attend a meeting arranged by Devon council to address concerns about the girl’s welfare. A judge has officially ordered that she be returned to the UK."

A custody battle, no reason to think that Zara is in trouble.

We had to attend several meetings arranged by the Social Services at the local council. If I knew then what I know now, I would have also taken the first plane out the country with my kids before getting inextricably embroiled in the legal process. These meetings are a farce. Parents have absolutely no legal rights and the meetings are basically rubber-stamping decisions already taken by the social workers privately beforehand. The only rights parents have are to be formally informed of the decision: their own input is irrelevant. Usually, the meeting is simply to inform the parent(s) that the child's name is to be placed on the At Risk Register, without any explanation what this means and what the implications are. Well, the implications are dire: officially, the family is entitled to "support" by the various children's services but what happens in practice is that if the parent(s) don't "cooperate" then it is very easy to obtain an order to remove the child, the parent(s) don't need to be present at the court hearing (which basically rubber-stamps the Interim Care Order) and they needn't be informed either until after the fact. An ICO gives the Social Services power over the child for about 2 months, but it is always routinely renewed indefinitely (every two months) by a family court judge. With an ICO, children can be removed and placed in foster care - and if the child is young and cute the standard procedure is to start the process of putting it up for adoption (without requiring the biological parents' consent). Older children's wishes are routinely ignored also (illegally so according to the Voice of the Child). Zara will have no say in who she'd prefer to live with, despite being the legal age of consent, usually around 11 or 12...

It's a grinding, inexorable process that can't be easily stopped once started. Get out while you can! Trevor, you did the right thing.

Edited March 4, 2016 by RapidMethod

[SOTIRIOS]

...are we to guess that the mother is behind this....???

...either something terrible has happened to them....

...or they were trying to get away from something terrible.....

...if he 'has business interests' as it is mentioned.....then maybe 'after 4 months'....is is rather a money issue for someone else....

...to suggest that the father is guilty of something is baseless at this point....

...sounds like 'a family thing'.....

...hope they are all right....

[falang khinok]

I read the whole story and it always amazes me how the british government infantilizes its citizen....if an uk bloody judge orders anything in your life take a gun and shoot the bastard....ah sorry I forgot they took their guns away and now they are helpless against this kind of minding....

if anyone official government / council / socila anything try to tell u how to live or how to behave just run....dont get into legal battles they set up their system in a way the citizen ALWAYS looses and pays the bill...

int his case it is probably an ex wife who makes the council go wild....if the father would be such a bloody bastard why the girl come with him to bkk...? BS thats what I think....

hope he finds a nice place to live in LOS and his girl feels happy in such a warm enviroment .... ok third world but nobody tells u anything....how or what to think.... where and when to go...and nobody tells u to pay for their BS system taxes (up to you )... well it comes with the usual risks death includet....but when I think about the overcared overmindet over socialised of so called western welfare systems it makes me womit all day...rather die standing ( because a bloody drunk or stoned hellraiser hits you ) than serve this "good meaning " bastards on my knees....

pom rak thai mak....

[Sheryl]

What I'm missing here? A father went to Thailand with is half Thai daughter, to see the kids family or ex wife the mother of the kid. Correct? They might stay with the ex wife, fell in love again??

Please enlighten me.

Where do you see that she is "half Thai"? I do not see it mentioned anywhere. Would think it would be, if it were the case.

Evidentally there were concerns about his treatment of her prior to going to Thailand as a child welfare hearing was already scheduled. Indeed his going to Thailand may have been to avoid the hearing and possible loss of custody and/or criminal charges that might have resulted.

What exactly the concerns were, we don't know.

[Gracas]

The weekly British cry. Someone has gone missing, find them.

Reminds me of the movie Hunt for Red October "You have another submarine missing".

[jayne123]

What I'm missing here? A father went to Thailand with is half Thai daughter, to see the kids family or ex wife the mother of the kid. Correct? They might stay with the ex wife, fell in love again??

Please enlighten me.

Where do you see that she is "half Thai"? I do not see it mentioned anywhere. Would think it would be, if it were the case.

Evidentally there were concerns about his treatment of her prior to going to Thailand as a child welfare hearing was already scheduled. Indeed his going to Thailand may have been to avoid the hearing and possible loss of custody and/or criminal charges that might have resulted.

What exactly the concerns were, we don't know.

The name of the child is given as Arisara in the article, so I think it's fair to assume she's half Thai.