Thai company for a freelancer just for obtaining WP.

[Pha Nga Nist]

Hi,

I have a company in HK which makes me 100,000 Baht/month profit.

There is no tax in HK but on the other hand, there is no way to get a Thai visa just by having a HK company... I have to find a solution for long term stay in Thailand.

That is why I am considering to open a Thai company which will allow me to get a WP in exchange for paying fees and taxes in Thailand which I don't currently pay in HK.

How much TOTAL % should I expect to pay from these 100,000 baht as tax, accountant fee, gov fees, 4 employees tax/social security etc.?

If the amount is reasonable than that might be something I'll choose to do.

My other options are the Elite visa (100k/year) or some kind of ED visa but these are less interesting options for me.

Thank you very much for your assistance!

[sunnyjim5]

Just opening a company will not provide an appropriate visa or a work permit.

Suggest you consult a lawyer about your plan.

[ubonjoe]

I think you will find that annual costs of doing it will be more that the 100k baht a year that the Thai elite visa will cost you. Best to think of the 500k baht for the Thai Elite membership as paying in advance for 5 to 6 years of worry free stay.

Minimum salary for the 4 Thai employees would be at least 24k baht a month (6k each).

[jacksam]

Thai company will be expensive and have headaches and what will the thai emplyees be doing? Get an Elite Visa.

[Gulfsailor]

Quick annual calculation;

Accounting + audit; 60,000+

4 Thais + your social security; 60,000+

Work permit plus extension of stay and multiple re entry permit; 10,000 (a lot more when having agent take care of it)

Miscallaneous company cost; 5000

Subtotal company cost 135,000+

Your current profit; 1,200,000

Deductions;

Your salary; 600,000 (minimum for extension of stay)

4 Thais; 432,000 (minimum salary)

Company cost (above); 135,000

Taxable corporate income; Circa 50,000

Subtotal corporate tax 15%; 7,500

Personal income taxes;

You; circa 50,000 on salary and dividend from company profit

Staff: 0

Providing you pocket your fictional staff net salary your net income would be;

600,000 + 432,000 + 42,500 - 50,000 = 940,000 Baht.

So total cost of your proposal is 1,200,000 - 940,000 = 260,000 Baht per year.

Thai Elite is a lot cheaper....

[elviajero]

• Starting a small not very profitable company just to get a permit to stay isn't a good idea and will not be cost effective.

If you are over 50 get a non 'O' based on your income, otherwise the Elite visa would be the best solution.

Staying long term on ED visas and tourist visas is getting harder and not a long term solution.

[lkv]

I think you may be better off speaking to agents or "lawyers" that may present you with a wider range of cost effective options.

Edited March 5, 2016 by lkv

[JohnnyJazz]

Companies usually pay tax in Hong Kong but that's not the subject. Are you Hong Kong resident ? You can then apply for an APEC card (don't remember if you need to be permanent or not) which could make things a bit easier at the border,

[lkv]

So total cost of your proposal is 1,200,000 - 940,000 = 260,000 Baht per year.

Thai Elite is a lot cheaper....

Well, thanks for that breakdown. I did not realise that that's the price to be paid for the luxury of having an uninterrupted stay in Thailand with an extension from Immigration.

Guess it will have to be an interrupted stay then.

Edited March 5, 2016 by lkv

[Pha Nga Nist]

Quick annual calculation;

Accounting + audit; 60,000+

4 Thais + your social security; 60,000+

Work permit plus extension of stay and multiple re entry permit; 10,000 (a lot more when having agent take care of it)

Miscallaneous company cost; 5000

Subtotal company cost 135,000+

Your current profit; 1,200,000

Deductions;

Your salary; 600,000 (minimum for extension of stay)

4 Thais; 432,000 (minimum salary)

Company cost (above); 135,000

Taxable corporate income; Circa 50,000

Subtotal corporate tax 15%; 7,500

Personal income taxes;

You; circa 50,000 on salary and dividend from company profit

Staff: 0

Providing you pocket your fictional staff net salary your net income would be;

600,000 + 432,000 + 42,500 - 50,000 = 940,000 Baht.

So total cost of your proposal is 1,200,000 - 940,000 = 260,000 Baht per year.

Thai Elite is a lot cheaper....

First of all, thank you very much for your detailed response, I appreciate it.

However, in my work, I only get only 1 invoice from 1 costumer per month for the whole amount, I hardly think that the accountant will charge me much on that.

Also, I don't really need employees...

How much a business like mine would cost in reality (including the personal tax I'll pay+social security for employees + actual cost of accountant for this little work)

Thank you.

[elviajero]

Quick annual calculation;

Accounting + audit; 60,000+

4 Thais + your social security; 60,000+

Work permit plus extension of stay and multiple re entry permit; 10,000 (a lot more when having agent take care of it)

Miscallaneous company cost; 5000

Subtotal company cost 135,000+

Your current profit; 1,200,000

Deductions;

Your salary; 600,000 (minimum for extension of stay)

4 Thais; 432,000 (minimum salary)

Company cost (above); 135,000

Taxable corporate income; Circa 50,000

Subtotal corporate tax 15%; 7,500

Personal income taxes;

You; circa 50,000 on salary and dividend from company profit

Staff: 0

Providing you pocket your fictional staff net salary your net income would be;

600,000 + 432,000 + 42,500 - 50,000 = 940,000 Baht.

So total cost of your proposal is 1,200,000 - 940,000 = 260,000 Baht per year.

Thai Elite is a lot cheaper....

First of all, thank you very much for your detailed response, I appreciate it.

However, in my work, I only get only 1 invoice from 1 costumer per month for the whole amount, I hardly think that the accountant will charge me much on that.

Also, I don't really need employees...

How much a business like mine would cost in reality (including the personal tax I'll pay+social security for employees + actual cost of accountant for this little work)

Thank you.

The employees are needed by law. Thailand isn't set up for or welcoming of small businesses that employee a foreigner.

You might be better off using a company like IGLU. http://iglu.net/join/

Edited March 6, 2016 by elviajero

[gk10002000]

Get the Elite Visa. I don't know what your home or "tax" country is but the cost of the Visa may be a valid business expense you could deduct against your company's profits. Of course, I am using USA terminology here which may not apply in your case. And if there were an auditing agency involved for you taxes wherever and if you have to file, it would be hard to justify why you need to stay in Thailand to do your business and why you would need an Elite Visa. Just some thoughts.

[lkv]

The OP has stated before that he is paying zero tax in Hong Kong, so deducting the Elite against the company's profits would not save him any money really.

I do not believe the Elite to be the most cost effective solution that the OP could go for.

As I said, talks with various agents may reveal alternative solutions.

[jacksam]

Did the op mention his nationality. Hope it ain't USA the tax man loves collecting tax even when they work o/s. So I'm told. Could be completely wrong. Only relating conversations with some yanks I've run into

[Briggsy]

Quick annual calculation;

Accounting + audit; 60,000+

4 Thais + your social security; 60,000+

Work permit plus extension of stay and multiple re entry permit; 10,000 (a lot more when having agent take care of it)

Miscallaneous company cost; 5000

Subtotal company cost 135,000+

Your current profit; 1,200,000

Deductions;

Your salary; 600,000 (minimum for extension of stay)

4 Thais; 432,000 (minimum salary)

Company cost (above); 135,000

Taxable corporate income; Circa 50,000

Subtotal corporate tax 15%; 7,500

Personal income taxes;

You; circa 50,000 on salary and dividend from company profit

Staff: 0

Providing you pocket your fictional staff net salary your net income would be;

600,000 + 432,000 + 42,500 - 50,000 = 940,000 Baht.

So total cost of your proposal is 1,200,000 - 940,000 = 260,000 Baht per year.

Thai Elite is a lot cheaper....

Excellently detailed reply.

After correction of the arithmetical error, the annual cost is approximately 175,000 Baht.

But thank you for doing all the heavy lifting.

[Sheryl]

How old are you?

As others have said a non-O (with extension based on retirement) will work fine if you are 50 or over.

It is not necessary to be retired to get an retirement extension, as long as you do not work in Thailand.

Many people living here on retirement extensions who work elsewhere in the region/globe.

If you are under 50, your choices become:

- Elite card

- Investment visa. This can include purchasing a condo, so unlike the Elite card you get something for your money, but you have to spend at least 10 million baht. The requirements for this type of extension:

1. Must have been granted a “Non-Immigrant visa”
2. Must have evidence of transferring funds into Thailand of no less than 10 million Baht.
3. Must have evidence of investing in the purchase or rental of a condominium unit for a period of no less than 3 year issued by a relevant agency or government unit, at a purchase or rental price of no less than 10 million Baht (Copy of condominium purchase agreement and copy of the ownership registration of the said condominium issued by government or relevant agency or a copy of a long-term lease agreement are needed documents): or
4. Must have evidence of investing in the form of a fixed deposit of no less than 10 million Baht with the Bank which is registered in Thailand and has Thai national holding more than 50 percent of it’s shares (Funds deposit certificate issued by the bank and a copy of evidence of funds deposit are required documents) : or
5. Must have evidence in the purchase of government or state enterprise bonds of no less than 10 million Baht ( copies of bond certificates are needed documents) : or
6. Must have evidences of making an investment as set out in Criteria3),4 or 5) with a total value of not less than 10 million Baht.

http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=faq

If you are under 50 and can't afford or don't want to spend the money needed for investment visa or Elite card then that leaves you with intermittent trips on tourist visas, understanding that back to back trips are being cracked down on and also that very frequent trips may raise questions.

[lkv]

Did the op mention his nationality. Hope it ain't USA the tax man loves collecting tax even when they work o/s. So I'm told. Could be completely wrong. Only relating conversations with some yanks I've run into

No, you're not wrong. US citizens have a very hard time opening either personal or corporate accounts. Some banks will refuse them just based on nationality.

Edited March 6, 2016 by lkv

[jacksam]

Did the op mention his nationality. Hope it ain't USA the tax man loves collecting tax even when they work o/s. So I'm told. Could be completely wrong. Only relating conversations with some yanks I've run into

No, you're not wrong. US citizens have a very hard time opening either personal or corporate accounts. Some banks will refuse them just based on nationality.

Ikv , hope I'm not side tracking op too much but is it also true that the IRS has some sort of connection to immigration and can effect travel in and out of USA for its citizens based on taxes owing. Such a connection does not exist in AU as i understand.

As for op as stated earlier forget company idea. Crazy

Edited March 6, 2016 by jacksam

[lkv]

Did the op mention his nationality. Hope it ain't USA the tax man loves collecting tax even when they work o/s. So I'm told. Could be completely wrong. Only relating conversations with some yanks I've run into

No, you're not wrong. US citizens have a very hard time opening either personal or corporate accounts. Some banks will refuse them just based on nationality.

Ikv , hope I'm not side tracking op too much but is it also true that the IRS has some sort of connection to immigration and can effect travel in and out of USA for its citizens based on taxes owing. Such a connection does not exist in AU as i understand.

As for op as stated earlier forget company idea. Crazy

Yes there was a story published that if an American owed more than 50k in taxes to the IRS, they have the ability to suspend his passport or refuse reissuing of a new one etc. I guess they would be chasing owed money outside the US as well. There was also a recent story about Thailand signing an official agreement with the US in regards to taxation so things are not looking bright for them. That's why the number of US citizens renouncing their citizenship has trebled, and the fees for doing that jumped from 400 something USD to over 2,000 USD

But back on topic, apart from the US, other nationalities can still structure their affairs in a tax efficient way.

As for the Thai company, thanks to the previous comment, I understand that the price has now been reduced to 175K baht

However options do exist that would reduce that cost to half of the Elite, but they either involve travelling long flights or playing with loopholes in the law.

And yes, they do come with extra hassle, but they save money and don't require a 5 year upfront.

A topic I am keenly researching at the moment.

Edited March 6, 2016 by lkv

[jacksam]

The elite visa is interesting in that not that long ago there were double and triple TV available. Now we are down to setv.

When I first arrived here already over 50 I just used visa exempt over and over because I travel every few weeks out of los. Again that has finished. The METV has its issues not the least that you need go back to home country. Overstay penalties in past have been very easy going. Again gone very soon.

The elite may become attractive esp for those in their 40,s ......45 perfect timing.

[lkv]

Yeah but for someone like me in my 30's with foreign derived income 175K does not sound too appealing.

Neither does 500K upfront.

So my choices are either a combination of SETVs until they stop giving them (although I think some money thrown in a Thai bank account would keep them going on and on), or various other schemes that cost perhaps a little more, but offer overall stays in Thailand for 12...15...18 months but with visa runs.

You're talking about retirement, but with the way things are going at the moment over here and "Thailand strengthening ties with China" rather than the West, there is a strong possibility I'm not here in 5 years.

So I need to be looking at more cost effective solutions.

Edited March 6, 2016 by lkv

[jacksam]

Vietnam?

[gk10002000]

The OP has stated before that he is paying zero tax in Hong Kong, so deducting the Elite against the company's profits would not save him any money really.

I do not believe the Elite to be the most cost effective solution that the OP could go for.

As I said, talks with various agents may reveal alternative solutions.

Siiigh. People just don't read with understanding. Just because the OP is not paying taxes in Hong Kong, does not mean that he does not have tax liabilities elsewhere such as in his home country which is what my post discussed. I am sure he is NOT a Hong Kong resident

[lkv]

Vietnam?

No, more cost effective solutions to stay in Thailand

I still like it, don't get me wrong, despite of all the crap that's been going on, but I cannot say if I will feel the same in 12 months.

Only time can tell.

[lkv]

The OP has stated before that he is paying zero tax in Hong Kong, so deducting the Elite against the company's profits would not save him any money really.

I do not believe the Elite to be the most cost effective solution that the OP could go for.

As I said, talks with various agents may reveal alternative solutions.

Siiigh. People just don't read with understanding. Just because the OP is not paying taxes in Hong Kong, does not mean that he does not have tax liabilities elsewhere such as in his home country which is what my post discussed. I am sure he is NOT a Hong Kong resident

No, I understand exactly what you mean, but different home countries have different tax laws (US is an exception), so using various ways (legal), tax liability can be greatly reduced, sometimes to zero.

But that's a different off topic story

[SS1]

Hey OP have you checked your PM? I've sent you some info. We offer a service for exactly what you're after. We are a BOI-certified company licensed to hire freelancers who receive income from abroad, 100% legally.

[sunnyjim5]

Hey OP have you checked your PM? I've sent you some info. We offer a service for exactly what you're after. We are a BOI-certified company licensed to hire freelancers who receive income from abroad, 100% legally.

That is interesting. Would you please PM me with the details.

Thank you.

[lkv]

Yea, send me a PM as well pls let's have a look

[blackcab]

Quick annual calculation;

Accounting + audit; 60,000+

4 Thais + your social security; 60,000+

Work permit plus extension of stay and multiple re entry permit; 10,000 (a lot more when having agent take care of it)

Miscallaneous company cost; 5000

Subtotal company cost 135,000+

Your current profit; 1,200,000

Deductions;

Your salary; 600,000 (minimum for extension of stay)

4 Thais; 432,000 (minimum salary)

Company cost (above); 135,000

Taxable corporate income; Circa 50,000

Subtotal corporate tax 15%; 7,500

Personal income taxes;

You; circa 50,000 on salary and dividend from company profit

Staff: 0

Providing you pocket your fictional staff net salary your net income would be;

600,000 + 432,000 + 42,500 - 50,000 = 940,000 Baht.

So total cost of your proposal is 1,200,000 - 940,000 = 260,000 Baht per year.

Thai Elite is a lot cheaper....

The social fund figure can be halved. A worker earning 9,000 per month pays 450 baht and the company pays the same. The OP would pay 750 baht.

So 450 x 4 = 1,800 plus 750 = 2,550 per month or 30,600 per year.

There also would be no tax payable on profit of 50,000 baht.

However that is somewhat irrelevant as I completely agree with the other posters - don't go the company route.

You will regret it.

[lkv]

Hey OP have you checked your PM? I've sent you some info. We offer a service for exactly what you're after. We are a BOI-certified company licensed to hire freelancers who receive income from abroad, 100% legally.

Thanks for the PM, I had a look. I have heard of you guys before.

Will not go into details.

Concept is excellent, if I go with your minimum salary requirement into the scheme it will incur a minimum annual cost of THB 250,000.

I appreciate the offer though.

Edited March 9, 2016 by lkv