How many Muslims do you know in Thailand?

[Inspire]

How many Muslims do you know in Thailand?

Orlando Barton

Welcome to “Every Picture Tells a Story”; a weekly post about living in Thailand. Each week we’ll post a picture that illustrates some of the best parts about living in Thailand.

In recent times, I notice a whole lot of people taking time to bash Muslims on Facebook and other internet forums. It appears to me those that enjoy this kind of activity can’t stop once they do it the first time. It amazes me how much time people have to be hateful.

Some Muslim haters are upset about what they consider to be too many immigrants in their country and want to start culling by religion. Some bash their religious customs like praying more than once a day and eating food that has been prepared a certain way. Almost all bashers blame Muslims for deadly terrorist attacks all over the world.

It’s not an argument I want to engage in. But, it occurs to me that people upset with immigration laws should be angry at their government, not individuals looking for a better way of life. It has also come to my attention that other religions have some pretty bizarre customs and rituals. If you think halal food preparation is cruel, go in the internet and take a look at how veal or fois gras is farmed. And, as a subset of the entire Muslim population, violent terrorists are a pretty miniscule minority.

My question to you Muslim bashers is this … How many Muslims do you know? Exactly what facts did you use to form your opinion and where did you get them? If you don’t know any Muslims or simply absorbed information from other Muslim haters, it seems like an opinion built on ignorance.

Read more: http://www.inspirepattaya.com/lifestyle/many-muslims-know/

-- Inspire Pattaya 2016-03-05

[SoiBiker]

I don't really know any personally here - but quite a few among my friends back home in the UK.

[sipi]

One.

And before she could come back to her parents house for a visit they had to purchase separate cooking utensils for her so that she didn't have to eat with the same utensils as her family.

[marcofunny]

In fact Halal = Kosher is the same, so Muslims could also consume kosher meat without any issues, dozens of scholars believes that prophet Mohamed has copied many aspects of the Jewish dietary laws (Kashrut ) during his interaction with the Jews during his migration to Medina, note that Islam has two main branches Shiite and Sunni, I prefers the Shiite version because it is more open to reasoning and logic and it s not based on the hadith (saying of the prophet) as its jurisdiction the Sunni lacks a system of clergy making the whole sect total mess where a dozens of fatwas are issued similarity by different conflicting scholars, my own opinion is that Sunni Islam needs deep reforms.

Edited March 5, 2016 by marcofunny

[SoiBiker]

In fact Halal = Kosher is the same...

Nope. Vaguely similar, maybe, but not the same at all.

[marcofunny]

In fact Halal = Kosher is the same...

Nope. Vaguely similar, maybe, but not the same at all.

if I take it from a Muslim 's perspective, yes they are allowed to eat all meat from Jews and that s mentioned in the Quran , I had couple of Muslims friends who were ordering special kosher meals on planes.

[Jingthing]

The OP indulges in a distortion.

It is very true that only a tiny minority of global Muslims are active terrorists.

But a shockingly high percentage of global Muslims support outrageous barbaric practices, such as:

Death penalty for apostasy (leaving Islam)

Honor killings for adultery

Murdering people for being gay

The levels vary nation by nation.

Thailand's Muslims do have relatively moderate views and that's great. North American Muslims are unusually moderate. On the other hand, many majority Muslim nations have populations that favor death for apostasy overwhelmingly. So -- it's not productive to pretend there isn't a problem with this on a global level.

The OP tries to just brush it under the rug. Thus, a fail.

It's not Islamophobic to show support for the minority of global Muslims who are active now to REFORM their fellow religionists, globally. They're almost always in the west because if they were living in Islamic dominated states, their lives would be in danger.

As far as interacting with Thai Muslims as people, I'd say approach them as individual human beings and don't make assumptions about them, either way. But that's not the same thing as not being aware of this GLOBAL issue.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Jingthing

[sunnyjim5]

The OP may be correct in asserting that most Muslims are not terrorists but most Terrorists are Muslims !

Perhaps the OP would list the many 1000,s of people (many of them Muslims ) who have been slaughtered in the name of Islam by Muslims

Can the OP detail the number of killings directly attributable to Muslims that have occurred in Africa, Australia, Afghanistan,Bali, the ME., Pakistan, India, the UK, France, the USA, Thailand etc

I am not a Muslim hater but the terrorists and their supporters/funders must be eliminated

[SoiBiker]

Well, this went downhill depressingly quickly.

[up-country_sinclair]

The OP indulges in a distortion.

It is very true that only a tiny minority of global Muslims are active terrorists.

But a shockingly high percentage of global Muslims support outrageous barbaric practices, such as:

Death penalty for apostasy (leaving Islam)

Honor killings for adultery

Murdering people for being gay

The levels vary nation by nation.

Thailand's Muslims do have relatively moderate views and that's great. North American Muslims are unusually moderate. On the other hand, many majority Muslim nations have populations that favor death for apostasy overwhelmingly. So -- it's not productive to pretend there isn't a problem with this on a global level.

The OP tries to just brush it under the rug. Thus, a fail.

It's not Islamophobic to show support for the minority of global Muslims who are active now to REFORM their fellow religionists, globally. They're almost always in the west because if they were living in Islamic dominated states, their lives would be in danger.

As far as interacting with Thai Muslims as people, I'd say approach them as individual human beings and don't make assumptions about them, either way. But that's not the same thing as not being aware of this GLOBAL issue.

You really couldn't make it up. Right on cue. More Islamophobic rhetoric based on irrational hatred. And a healthy dose of ignorance as well.

Taken directly from the OP:

My question to you Muslim bashers is this … How many Muslims do you know? Exactly what facts did you use to form your opinion and where did you get them? If you don’t know any Muslims or simply absorbed information from other Muslim haters, it seems like an opinion built on ignorance.

[marcofunny]

The OP may be correct in asserting that most Muslims are not terrorists but most Terrorists are Muslims !

very few notice this fast fact but 95% of all suicide bombing terrorists are Sunni Muslims, as I mentioned earlier Sunni Islam is plagued with many contradictions by some very violent scholars, I cite one example is the 16th century scholar ibn taimaya which had very violent views regarding most issues, most of the extremists are Wahhabi (a sect originated in Saudi Arabia ) dozens of Muslims countries I cite the examples of Tunisia, Libya, Morocco banned all materials from Saudi Arabia for years until their respective governments has fallen recently and chaos started when the Wahhabi version of Islam started to take hold, today Islamic world is facing what medieval Europe had faced during the different bloody wars between the Protestants and the Catholics.

Edited March 5, 2016 by marcofunny

[SoiBiker]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/14/are-all-terrorists-muslims-it-s-not-even-close.html

[sunnyjim5]

The OP indulges in a distortion.

It is very true that only a tiny minority of global Muslims are active terrorists.

But a shockingly high percentage of global Muslims support outrageous barbaric practices, such as:

Death penalty for apostasy (leaving Islam)

Honor killings for adultery

Murdering people for being gay

The levels vary nation by nation.

Thailand's Muslims do have relatively moderate views and that's great. North American Muslims are unusually moderate. On the other hand, many majority Muslim nations have populations that favor death for apostasy overwhelmingly. So -- it's not productive to pretend there isn't a problem with this on a global level.

The OP tries to just brush it under the rug. Thus, a fail.

It's not Islamophobic to show support for the minority of global Muslims who are active now to REFORM their fellow religionists, globally. They're almost always in the west because if they were living in Islamic dominated states, their lives would be in danger.

As far as interacting with Thai Muslims as people, I'd say approach them as individual human beings and don't make assumptions about them, either way. But that's not the same thing as not being aware of this GLOBAL issue.

You forgot to include "corrective" punishment commonly inflicted by Sharia courts ...................

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/young-unmarried-couple-brutally-caned-in-indonesia-for-affectionate-contact-a6790246.html

[prestburypark]

Why are people who are aware of unprecedented changes to their societies and comment on those changes automatically "haters"?

This is a typical disingenuous kind of post, look at the nice Muslims, aren't they just good people like you and me? Well yes, and most probably kind, moral, law abiding family people who everybody could get along with.

The problem is Islam, or "submission" and the fanatical hatred espoused in Islam toward non-believers. When your god tells you its ok to do immoral things to people who are different to yourself, and your religious leaders pound that into you from day one of your education, leaving aside most logic, then there is a problem, which is this:

Good people, who would never in a million years do crime, bigotry, hate, murder, torture, rape, and who would be appalled at those who would even think of doing such acts,

are led into just such immoral acts by religious justification:

"the prophet did it to them, and told us to, so we have to copy his actions because he was the most perfect man who ever existed, and it is our duty to emulate him.

You get the problem? Its a duality of good and evil where evil towards non muslims has been declared good, which actions no moral upstanding citizen would ever visit upon his neighbour but:

God, Allah, the prophet, whatever, said it was ok, so lets start chopping . Islam is the only religion that is so down on non believers.

It is not a phobia if there is really a threat to your person or way of life, and Islam has openly declared war on western society now and its stated aim is world domination and Sharia everywhere. We have really got the message, honestly, you guys have made your point, well and truly. Do mind then if we discuss it amongst ourselves? Yeah, thought you might.

[marcofunny]

a perfect example to illustrate the different Islamic sects is the current war in Syria all combating sides have in fact different religious beliefs.

Syrian Government (Basher Assad) : Alawites Islam (a special sect based on shia islam and does not use any hadith jurisdiction very moderate and tolerant)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawites

Hezbollah : Shia Islam a version which Iran had strong ideological influence open to reforms and has a central clergy system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_Islam

ISIS : Wahhabi Sunni Islam (very extremism form of Islam originated in the 19th century in Saudi Arabia)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism

Rebels : ordinary Sunni Muslims
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunni_Islam

the ideological difference between an Alawite and a Sunni a are indeed vast and could be comparable to the difference between a catholic and a Mormon, the Sunnis for example endorses the caliphate where the Shiite don't, the Wahhabi consider all Shiite to be non-believers yeah very few people knows this fact but it s one of the reason why the war is still waging in Syria .

Edited March 5, 2016 by marcofunny

[Jingthing]

In fact Halal = Kosher is the same, so Muslims could also consume kosher meat without any issues, dozens of scholars believes that prophet Mohamed has copied many aspects of the Jewish dietary laws (Kashrut ) during his interaction with the Jews during his migration to Medina, note that Islam has two main branches Shiite and Sunni, I prefers the Shiite version because it is more open to reasoning and logic and it s not based on the hadith (saying of the prophet) as its jurisdiction the Sunni lacks a system of clergy making the whole sect total mess where a dozens of fatwas are issued similarity by different conflicting scholars, my own opinion is that Sunni Islam needs deep reforms.

Of course -- Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are the three ABRAHAMIC religions. Judaism, the first of course. It's interesting that Christianity didn't go with the food fetish stuff. Islam is the "baby" of sorts coming along third.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Jingthing

[katana]

With regard to Muslim friends in the OP, doesn't the Koran say not to take kafir as your friends?

Edited March 5, 2016 by katana

[Jingthing]

With regard to Muslim friends in the OP, doesn't the Koran say not to take kafir as your friends?

Perhaps so, I don't know, but be clear not all Muslims are fundamentalists. The Thai Muslims I have known have been gay. Also not fundamentalist. I guess you could be a gay Muslim fundamentalist but that wouldn't be easy to pull off.

I think there is a dynamic as there are so many Islamic majority nations (over 50 I think) of different social ways of being when you're a minority vs. when you're the majority. In Thailand, Muslims are a significant population but still clearly a minority.

Also, some of the stuff often associated with Islamic groups such as the Saudi female extreme covering custom isn't really from Islam, but more about their specific CULTURE there.

I'm not pretending to be an expert on Islam but I know enough to feel supportive of the Muslim activists in the world working towards reform within Islam ... such as more equal treatment for women, not murdering gays, etc. Things like dietary rules should be respected ... doesn't hurt anyone, but it would be nice for Muslims if they had the FREEDOM to leave the faith.

I also know for a fact, that as Jew, credible surveys show that the vast majority of Muslims in the Middle East hate Jews just for being Jews. Even in nearby Malaysia. That makes me sad, but I refuse to hate people back just for their ethnicity or religion. Because it's not everyone so it's not fair to assume it's everyone, when it isn't. Of course running around Isis land with a rainbow flag and yarmulke wouldn't be too bright, now would it?

Edited March 5, 2016 by Jingthing

[marcofunny]

There were two notable political leaders who made a huge progressive reforms in modern Islam in their respective countries, the first is the founder of modern Turkey Mustapha kamal attartuk and the second is the former Tunisian president Habib Bourguiba, they created a moderate form of Islam for exampled they outlawed many Islamic foundations such as Jihad, polygamy, legalized alcohol, headscarves, fasting in Ramadan etc.., during their reign, minorities were living in total harmony with the local Muslims population including Jews and Christians, unfortunately their efforts were wiped out recently with the dangerous spreading of Wahhabi Islam financed by the petrodollars of Saudi Arabia.

Edited March 5, 2016 by marcofunny

[sunnyjim5]

With regard to Muslim friends in the OP, doesn't the Koran say not to take kafir as your friends?

Perhaps so, I don't know, but be clear not all Muslims are fundamentalists. The Thai Muslims I have known have been gay. Also not fundamentalist. I guess you could be a gay Muslim fundamentalist but that wouldn't be easy to pull off.

I think there is a dynamic as there are so many Islamic majority nations (over 50 I think) of different social ways of being when you're a minority vs. when you're the majority. In Thailand, Muslims are a significant population but still clearly a minority.

Also, some of the stuff often associated with Islamic groups such as the Saudi female extreme covering custom isn't really from Islam, but more about their specific CULTURE there.

I'm not pretending to be an expert on Islam but I know about to feel supportive of the Muslim activists in the world working towards reform within Islam ... such as more equal treatment for women, not murdering gays, etc. Things like dietary rules should be respected ... doesn't hurt anyone, but it would be nice for Muslims if they had the FREEDOM to leave the faith.

I suggest these "gay" Muslims practice their faith in a Muslim country which has tall buildings which other Muslims will ensure they fall from.

[marcofunny]

Of course -- Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are the three ABRAHAMIC religions. Judaism, the first of course. It's interesting that Christianity didn't go with the food fetish stuff. Islam is the "baby" of sorts coming along third.

.

well in fact if you study the Bible you will notice that Jesus was following the kahsrut laws based on the fact that he was a devout Jew, historians believes that St Paul played a major into reforming the dietary laws, some Christians sects such as the Sabians and the Armenian Apostolic Church still observes the Jewish dietary laws as Islam which copied most of its laws from the old testament.

an example of punishment of homosexual in the old testament

Leviticus 18:22.

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."

Edited March 5, 2016 by marcofunny

[Jingthing]

Of course -- Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are the three ABRAHAMIC religions. Judaism, the first of course. It's interesting that Christianity didn't go with the food fetish stuff. Islam is the "baby" of sorts coming along third.

.

well in fact if you study the Bible you will notice that Jesus was following the kahsrut laws based on the fact that he was a devout Jew, historians believes that St Paul played a major into reforming the dietary laws, some Christians sects such as the Sabians and the Armenian Apostolic Church still observes the Jewish dietary laws as Islam which copied most of its laws from the old testament.

an example of punishment of homosexual in the old testament

Leviticus 18:22.

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."

Perhaps so on the dietary laws, but now, it's fair to say it's not a Christian thing.

As far as old testament texts, not sure what you're up to. Murdering gays is not advocated by modern Jewish religious leaders. Some Christian religious leaders are supporting that and of course it's definitely happening in parts of the Muslim world.

If you're saying the ORIGINAL idea from that came from Judaic texts for all Abrahamic religions, arguably so, but so what, that's not part of MODERN Judaism.

In other words: REFORM. Texts are one thing. Modern practice is another.

We meet modern people of whatever nationality, ethnicity, and religion and you don't know what they're really about as an individual until you know them and find out. Again within reason and safety, knowing the neighborhood you're in.

No rainbow Star of David flags in Isis areas ... wouldn't be prudent.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Jingthing

[marcofunny]

Perhaps so on the dietary laws, but now, it's fair to say it's not a Christian thing.

As far as old testament texts, not sure what you're up to. Murdering gays is not advocated by modern Jewish religious leaders. Some Christian religious leaders are supporting that and of course it's definitely happening in parts of the Muslim world.

That was my point about REFORM. Texts are one thing. Modern practice is another.

yeah you reach the point where I was mentioning it earlier, Islam is not flexible enough and open to reforms the way Judaism or Christianity are today, so most Sunni Muslims especially the Wahhabi still follows the Quran literally instead of taking different logical approach, for example Pork was outlawed because it was easily spoiled in the heat of Saudi Arabia ( an issue of food safety), alcohol was outlawed because it was not properly distilled in a modern factory,

women were covered up because law enforcement were unavailable and dangerous to walk outside etc..

some Islamic scholars tried to reform many aspects of Islam with modern approach unfortunately their efforts were countered by the more affluent orthodox ones, most Muslims societies were not so tolerant so most of those reformists were either jailed or executed.

Edited March 5, 2016 by marcofunny

[Jingthing]

A significant reform in most of the Islamic world is not going to happen anytime soon. Check back in 500 years though!

But Thailand isn't the Islamic world ... it's actually the most Buddhist nation on the planet with a Muslim minority.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Jingthing

[starky]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/14/are-all-terrorists-muslims-it-s-not-even-close.html

Nice Post SB, Thanks.

[Estrada]

I have hundreds of Muslim friends and have worked in many Muslim Countries. Here in Thailand, I live near Seacon Square Bangkok which historically was a Muslim area and therefore I have many Muslim friends, some of whom I have known since they were born. The local Imam, who runs a junior school here, is a friend. I know Surin Pitsawan, who is a Muslim and was the former Minister of Foreign Affairs and his son was a rotaractor in our rotaract club formed at ABAC. I worked in East Malaysia for two years and I also have hundreds of Muslim friends there.

Does that answer your question?

[henry15]

After living amongst them for 25 years in my hometown and see how they destroid a once vibrant neigbourhood, by their behaviour. I have no intenton what so ever to make Muslim friends. Because Moslims live in a different world, with a different reality who contradicts, in every way with the Jewish/ Christian - Humanism of Western Society

An intelectuelle conversation about religion or cultuer with a Muslim, is like peeling an Onion. How more Onionskin you remove, the very unpleasant truth, that a moderate muslim don't excists come to ligh.t

[tomyumchai]

they converted a church down the bottom of my street into a mosque. every day hundreds walk past my house to pray. i tried a few times to say 'good morning' to them as they walk by, even the ones who have live in my area for years and know me by sight. not 1 has ever replied or smiled back. so who's the racist?

[Suradit69]

I don't really know any personally here - but quite a few among my friends back home in the UK.

Yes, I only know one here, but probably a few others in my building who are passing acquaintances. I knew/know quite a few from the years I lived in the UAE and in Pakistan.

[Kabula]

This should not even be discussed in my opinion. Why bring it up? No doubt most comments will be polorizing and could create hate. Leave it alone. Let America and Europe focus on it and see how they will be affected. Better to ignore it, go with the flow and make everyone your friend!