do you have friends on overstay?

[Time Traveller]

I know about a dozen people on overstay -- long term, chronic overstay. Some have expired passports also. These people are either elderly and/or have mental health issues. All have limited income and/or mobility and don't have the means -- either mental, physical or financial to clear their overstays before March 20th.

Interestingly, many of these people have had interactions with Thai police in the past, usually for a motorcycle accident and nothing has happened, except they've become victims of a bribe for the cop to look the other way about their overstay situation. I wonder if that will continue. The fact is, the cop doesn't want to deal with arresting, say, a 76 year old alcoholic European who can barely walk (let alone ride a motorscooter) who doesn't have a valid passport, much less a visa. Imagine the paperwork that guy is going to generate, not to image the fuss raised if the guy dies in his custody. Much easier to extort a 10,000 baht bribe from him and let him go, with a warning not to drink and drive again.

I wonder if this leniency will continue.

Now with the military government declaring overstay as a major crime similar to murder or genecide, expect the witch hunt on people like that to begin. Police will be rewarded so doubt a bribe will work.

[CoreanoOzzie]

A friend's friend got recently busted in Isaan, who knows what happened to him. I look forward to the harsher penalties, Thailand needs a major clean-up :-)

[dotpoom]

I wouldn't know....over stayers are not lightly to broadcast it all over the place, I would imagine.....particularly to their "friends"..

[saakura]

Like the African refugees (economic migrants) are contained within camps in the western countries, maybe Thailand could also hold these poor economic farang migrants in simlar refugee camps?

Edited March 8, 2016 by saakura

[Eclipse]

I wouldn't know....over stayers are not lightly to broadcast it all over the place, I would imagine.....particularly to their "friends"..

A lot of them take great delight on boasting about it on ThaiVisa.

They seem proud of the fact.

[oxo1947]

Now with the military government declaring overstay as a major crime similar to murder or genecide, expect the witch hunt on people like that to begin. Police will be rewarded so doubt a bribe will work.

So if you commit genocide or murder you are sent home & told not to return for a number of years ....????

Do get real TimeTraveller ......or maybe stay off of the chang beer when deciding to post .

We all must have missed the Government statement about being a murderer when your visa expires..............

[uksomchai]

A friend's friend got recently busted in Isaan, who knows what happened to him. I look forward to the harsher penalties, Thailand needs a major clean-up :-)

What type of person relishes the new harsh penalties when they know absolutely nothing of why a person has overstayed and this overstay has zero effect on them in any way, shape or form ?

[Liquorice]

Only know of one over stayer.

He isn't even sure what year he arrived here on a Tourist Visa, but it was some 30 years ago.

In his early 60's now. Never worked, no money, passport expired years ago, won't get a Pension from his home Country either.

He survives on the little income his wife makes and a little that his elderly parents send him.

He doesn't have any options to choose.

Life as usual unless he's caught or dies.

In those 30 years he's been a house hermit, rarely steps outside the front door, what a miserable existence.

[jspill]

I wouldn't know....over stayers are not lightly to broadcast it all over the place, I would imagine.....particularly to their "friends"..

A lot of them take great delight on boasting about it on ThaiVisa.

They seem proud of the fact.

I've been reading for years and never, ever seen anyone boast. Seen a lot of people THINK others are boasting - see this recent thread, OP gives a calm report on clearing his overstay, post #3 someone says he's boasting. What on earth?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/900333-update-on-clearing-big-overstay/

[sunnyjim5]

I know about a dozen people on overstay -- long term, chronic overstay. Some have expired passports also. These people are either elderly and/or have mental health issues. All have limited income and/or mobility and don't have the means -- either mental, physical or financial to clear their overstays before March 20th.

Interestingly, many of these people have had interactions with Thai police in the past, usually for a motorcycle accident and nothing has happened, except they've become victims of a bribe for the cop to look the other way about their overstay situation. I wonder if that will continue. The fact is, the cop doesn't want to deal with arresting, say, a 76 year old alcoholic European who can barely walk (let alone ride a motorscooter) who doesn't have a valid passport, much less a visa. Imagine the paperwork that guy is going to generate, not to image the fuss raised if the guy dies in his custody. Much easier to extort a 10,000 baht bribe from him and let him go, with a warning not to drink and drive again.

I wonder if this leniency will continue.

Now with the military government declaring overstay as a major crime similar to murder or genecide, expect the witch hunt on people like that to begin. Police will be rewarded so doubt a bribe will work.

What a ridiculous claim/comment.

Provide links please to this statement (declaration) you allege the Government have made.

[rhodie]

Good luck to all overstayers. Hopefully there will be some sort of amnesty period. Nobody intentionally wants to be in an overstay position, but sh#t happens.

Perhaps you have not noticed but there has been a significant period of 'amnesty'. The draft new rules were published and made public many months ago!

How much more time do you believe should be given?

The overstayers now have 11 days of an extended period of amnesty left to regularise their situation.

Get a life man! Did any of them hurt you or anybody else? Don't put your holier than thou opinion here. Give me an example of where one of them caused you even a small little problem. Everyone is different. Just cut those who are not as fortunate a you some slack.

[rhodie]

Good luck to all overstayers. Hopefully there will be some sort of amnesty period. Nobody intentionally wants to be in an overstay position, but sh#t happens.

You are incorrect there are hundreds probably thousands of farang on voluntary overstay. Yes people intentionally overstay..

Give me one example of an intentional overstay flouting the law. Everyone's circumstances are different. Some people have difficulties. It does not make them bad! How did they hurt you? The laws here are difficult and inconsistent. Give them a break.

[sunnyjim5]

Good luck to all overstayers. Hopefully there will be some sort of amnesty period. Nobody intentionally wants to be in an overstay position, but sh#t happens.

Perhaps you have not noticed but there has been a significant period of 'amnesty'. The draft new rules were published and made public many months ago!

How much more time do you believe should be given?

The overstayers now have 11 days of an extended period of amnesty left to regularise their situation.

Get a life man! Did any of them hurt you or anybody else? Don't put your holier than thou opinion here. Give me an example of where one of them caused you even a small little problem. Everyone is different. Just cut those who are not as fortunate a you some slack.

What a rant !

Did I claim any "harm" had befallen me ?

I just pointed to the truth.

You may not like hearing/reading the truth but that is your problem not mine.

Just as a matter of interest how much more "slack" do you believe the 'unfortunates' should be given ?

[jspill]

Just as a matter of interest how much more "slack" do you believe the 'unfortunates' should be given ?

The previous system in place for the last 40 years was just fine - i.e. 20k fine and no blacklisting, and less frequent stop and searches, nightclub raids, etc. I'd vote for that.

[sunnyjim5]

Just as a matter of interest how much more "slack" do you believe the 'unfortunates' should be given ?

The previous system in place for the last 40 years was just fine - i.e. 20k fine and no blacklisting, and less frequent stop and searches, nightclub raids, etc. I'd vote for that.

I am sure you would but you just lost out because the popular vote is against you !

[twwy123]

Nobody wants to be on overstay. Nobody thinks beforehand "i know, its cheaper to overstay 2 years and pay 20,000 the 20,000" Everyone has their reasons.

Many people have their reasons, how valid is a whole different matter.

Thailand does get a fair number of Farang who are simply reckless, and have the "devil may care" attitude, whether it's unprotected sex with hookers or overstaying, they do whatever they feel is the easiest and most pleasant at the given moment, consequences be damned. Apparently, Thailand attracts this type more than other places, and the easy lifestyle seemingly without bounds or consequences makes their natural tendencies even worse.

Then there are others, probably the majority, who get into real problems... which would have been avoidable with just a tad bit of foresight and planning.

Of course, there are many who have legitimate problems, physical, mental or financial, which could not have been avoided even with a reasonable amount of planning and prudence.

Not judging anyone, but complying with Thai visa regulations, was not exactly rocket science nor prohibitively expensive. It changed in the last few years, but prior to that, the cost associated with visas amounted to well under $50/month. That's an achievable amount even for Burmese migrant workers.

[JLCrab]

It used to be, when I was chatting with other farang, and they started talking about the virtues of overstay or paying a fixer to get an extension, I would calmly say I don't want to hear it. If then the conversation did not change, I would kindly excuse myself and leave. Now that doesn't happen as I rarely chat with other farang.

I work real hard to comply properly with all Thai visa and extension provisions and I am well aware that others, for whatever reasons, do not. I just don't want to at least in person hear about it.

Edited March 8, 2016 by JLCrab

[jacksam]

On a side note. Would Thai authorities have a meaningful statistic of the number of farang currently on overstay here. To keep it simple will ommit Burmese etc.

I mean most entered on some sort of visa or exempt which has a limited life span and the record of extensions etc would be attached to that visa?

Just be interesting to know if its in the hundreds or thousands.

[NancyL]

On a side note. Would Thai authorities have a meaningful statistic of the number of farang currently on overstay here. To keep it simple will ommit Burmese etc.

I mean most entered on some sort of visa or exempt which has a limited life span and the record of extensions etc would be attached to that visa?

Just be interesting to know if its in the hundreds or thousands.

I know that in Chiang Mai, Immigration has been trying to get a handle on just that number. I've heard several first-hand accounts from widows/widowers or condo managers of Immigration stopping by to ask why it is that someone stopped filing 90 day reports and doing visa extensions yet there is no record of them ever having left the country. Of course, these are people who died in the past several years, but no one went to Immigration and cancelled their visa.

Yes, you're suppose to cancel your visa extension when you die! Or rather, someone is suppose to cancel your visa extensions for you. Apparently the Embassies/Consulates don't take care of this.

[BritTim]

On a side note. Would Thai authorities have a meaningful statistic of the number of farang currently on overstay here. To keep it simple will ommit Burmese etc.

I mean most entered on some sort of visa or exempt which has a limited life span and the record of extensions etc would be attached to that visa?

Just be interesting to know if its in the hundreds or thousands.

I know that in Chiang Mai, Immigration has been trying to get a handle on just that number. I've heard several first-hand accounts from widows/widowers or condo managers of Immigration stopping by to ask why it is that someone stopped filing 90 day reports and doing visa extensions yet there is no record of them ever having left the country. Of course, these are people who died in the past several years, but no one went to Immigration and cancelled their visa.

Yes, you're suppose to cancel your visa extension when you die! Or rather, someone is suppose to cancel your visa extensions for you. Apparently the Embassies/Consulates don't take care of this.

Will they lock up your body in IDC if you are guilty of a long overstay because your visa was not canceled? Based on some accounts of IDC, maybe they do. With the new rules starting March 20, will your body be deported, and blacklisted from return to be buried in Thailand? Will this be justified based on the criminal activity committed by dead farangs?

Will there be long threads here on TV throwing vitriol at other members, claiming it has become harder to be buried in Thailand because some dead farangs fail to notify immigration of their demise?

[rhodie]

Good luck to all overstayers. Hopefully there will be some sort of amnesty period. Nobody intentionally wants to be in an overstay position, but sh#t happens.

Perhaps you have not noticed but there has been a significant period of 'amnesty'. The draft new rules were published and made public many months ago!

How much more time do you believe should be given?

The overstayers now have 11 days of an extended period of amnesty left to regularise their situation.

Get a life man! Did any of them hurt you or anybody else? Don't put your holier than thou opinion here. Give me an example of where one of them caused you even a small little problem. Everyone is different. Just cut those who are not as fortunate a you some slack.

What a rant !

Did I claim any "harm" had befallen me ?

I just pointed to the truth.

You may not like hearing/reading the truth but that is your problem not mine.

Just as a matter of interest how much more "slack" do you believe the 'unfortunates' should be given ?

No rant mate. Just wonder why you have it in for so many you don't even know. Peace!

[Eneukman]

Good luck to all overstayers. Hopefully there will be some sort of amnesty period. Nobody intentionally wants to be in an overstay position, but sh#t happens.

You are incorrect there are hundreds probably thousands of farang on voluntary overstay. Yes people intentionally overstay..

Give me one example of an intentional overstay flouting the law. Everyone's circumstances are different. Some people have difficulties. It does not make them bad! How did they hurt you? The laws here are difficult and inconsistent. Give them a break.

Let me tell you about a friend's cousin, whom I have the misfortune to know.

He got some money when his dad died so decided to come over to Thailand for a holiday. I don't know how much he received but it was probably the equivalent of a year's salary for many people.

I believe he stayed at least part of the time in Pattaya, but fortunately I never saw him during that time. He squandered all the money he received getting drunk in beer bars and on girls. I don't know the full story but he ended up being arrested for being on overstay and ended up in the Immigration Prison. His sister refused point blank to help him and as far as I know his brother, who lives close to his sister has had zero contact with any family members for decades.

Eventually, a Catholic priest paid his overstay fine and the British Embassy paid for his fare home, retaining his passport until he repaid them for the cost of his airfare. As far as I know, that has not been repaid nor is it ever likely to be repaid.

He has a son, who must be in his teens or even early twenties, from a previous visit to Thailand. He came over whilst his son was young intending to visit him but ended up staying in Bangkok. He hardly ever supported his son, though his dad used to send some money when he was alive.

I have every sympathy with people who are seriously ill and who may be unable to deal with visa issues but people like my friend's cousin deserve to be banned from entering the country for a lengthy period.

Alan

Edited March 9, 2016 by Eneukman

[rhodie]

I agree with what you say End I. There will always be an exception. But the cousin won't change. He is like that wherever he is, not only Thailand.

[jspill]

Friends don't let friends..overstay.

How do 'friends' prevent their 'friends' from overstaying ?

It's called a joke, it's a pun on 'friends don't let friends drive drunk' ads from the 80s, that became an internet meme.

Edited March 9, 2016 by jspill

[justaphase]

Maybe its not aimed just at us Westerners? I downloaded a documentary about the Catholic Pakistani refugees flooding into Thailand to escape horrific religious persecution. We're talking thousands and thousands filling many blocks of apartments. They come here on tourist visas and just overstay. Secret cameras filmed inside IDC where there are hundreds of men women and children as young as 7 locked up together. Disturbing and very illegal. Immigration regularly raid their 'homes' and drag loads of them away on a weekly basis.

[CoreanoOzzie]

A friend's friend got recently busted in Isaan, who knows what happened to him. I look forward to the harsher penalties, Thailand needs a major clean-up :-)

What type of person relishes the new harsh penalties when they know absolutely nothing of why a person has overstayed and this overstay has zero effect on them in any way, shape or form ?

It's black and white for me. Follow the rules and one will be fine. If one can't follow the rules, then he/she should go back to where he/she came from. I know every case is not as simple as this, however the fact is that there are many dodgy people running away from problems in their country of origin/hiding in the Kingdom.......

[gilo]

Maybe its not aimed just at us Westerners? I downloaded a documentary about the Catholic Pakistani refugees flooding into Thailand to escape horrific religious persecution. We're talking thousands and thousands filling many blocks of apartments. They come here on tourist visas and just overstay. Secret cameras filmed inside IDC where there are hundreds of men women and children as young as 7 locked up together. Disturbing and very illegal. Immigration regularly raid their 'homes' and drag loads of them away on a weekly basis.

I agree that there is perhaps a tendency to consider that this is all about us. I too think that these changes are much more about targeting non-westerners. That documentary was horrifying but also seemed to suggest that immigration has certain objectives that are maybe even purposefully oblique. I seem to recall one poster also alluding to the possibility that the stricter rules might have had their genesis in dealing with repeat over-stayers travelling from states whose citizens are not able to access visas in neighbouring countries to Thailand, notably some sub-Saharan countries and some from the middle-east. This along with the desire to seem to be in line with other more rigorous States within the AEC such as Singapore I think is more likely to have been a consideration in putting forward these new rules than worrying about a few farangs who are potentially supporting families here. It might be insightful if once the prosecutions through the courts start for those apprehended rather than surrendering to see how universally the bans are implemented based on nationality. However in reality such data will never be released into the public domain, although perhaps some posters such as Badbanker might well be able to observe what occurs. In Thailand what is official stated policy versus what occurs in practice should not be considered as synonymous or congruent. While the bans for those surrendering are clear cut and defined those that are apprehended will be determined following prosecution through the courts allowing presumably potential leeway to be exercised. However this is merely conjecture on my part and thus the only sensible conclusion is to use the next 11 days to legitimise one's status if currently on overstay.

[Ian1980]

The place where i work is runned by a partnership:one of them is a immigration officer:he openly told me to let him know if i know any people in overstay,long or short as well.I will never do that,also because,as someone remember,i was in a 2 months overstay myself.

[billd766]

Good luck to all overstayers. Hopefully there will be some sort of amnesty period. Nobody intentionally wants to be in an overstay position, but sh#t happens.

This is the amnesty period and has been since it was announced in November or December of 2015 and the cut off date is March 19th.

On the 20th the new rules will apply.

[bkkcanuck8]

The place where i work is runned by a partnership:one of them is a immigration officer:he openly told me to let him know if i know any people in overstay,long or short as well.I will never do that,also because,as someone remember,i was in a 2 months overstay myself.

They don't really need snitches to track down a very large number of overstayers. Overstayers will often have a record of entries before they finally stepped over the line, so just taking a list of all people that have not exited and data-mining for the last residence they put as where they are staying.... most people would have honestly filled that out -- and a large percentage will still be at that residence. Even if they are not there - often they will be able to be tracked down using that as a starting point. Of course the ones they would really want to track down - the criminal element - would have been less likely to be honest.... but you would have a large haul of overstayers to parade around. I wonder if that may be stage 2 of the crackdown.