How does my thai wife purchase chanote land?

[Wayne88]

Hi, i know this question has most likely been asked many times, i have done lots of research online and throughout forums and i still haven't found or had a definitive answer.

i would like to know the process through which me and my thai wife must go in order to purchase a plot of chanote land. It will most likely be in rural Udon or Nong Khai Province. Up to about 1 rai in size maximum. our plans are to try and purchase a plot of land this summer if we find a suitable plot. We've been married for 3 years and have an 18 month old daughter. My wife's 22 i'm 27. i have no intentions of ever buying property in the UK as i wish to settle in thailand permanently once i reach retirement age. in the meantime i will be working throughout the world and heading back and forwards to thailand to visit my family once we eventually have a house built

from the research i have done i have come to understand this:

• we find a plot of chanote land.
• agree a price with the seller
• all proceed to the local land office at which point the sale is agreed and paid for.
• i know that me and my wife have to co-sign a letter of confirmation at the land office that states that the land is solely owned by my wife the thai national and that i have no possesion rights over it. it is sin suan tua a possesion of hers outside of our marriage basically.

my concern is over the source of the funds being used to purchase the land. my wife does not work here in the UK as we have a baby together and she is a housewife for the mean time. the officials must surely be aware that i will be supplying the funds to my wife in order to purchase the land. is this a problem? do the funds for the purchase have to have been earnt by my wife the thai national from her employment? will this potentially be a problem in the future if they were to check and realise the land was purchased with money from the farang husband? or are they more concerned that we sign the letter of confirmation which takes all right for the land away from me, with them not caring where the money has come from as we are both legally married in Thailand.

we are only looking at purchasing land at the moment. so we can get it all paid off and sorted whilst we are still young. my wife is getting a job later once our daughter starts nursery and saving her salary towards our planned house build

let me finish by saying i don't want any of the following responses they are boring an unnecessary and completely irrelevant to the question i have asked:

• "only invest what you can afford to lose" yes i know i'm not a fool
• "you will never own anything in thailand" im quite aware of that thank you.
• "just rent somewhere" No!
• "your young wife just wants it as a show of face in the village for being wealthy"
• "the resale value will be tiny for a property in the countryside" well we want to live there so that is of no concern
• "the builders will start charging you for purchasing extra machinery for them" I'll only hire reputable builders after sighting previous work they have done. if they mess me about il get rid of them.
• "be careful she'll boot you out once the house is complete" who have these people married that this happened to? this is not a worry that i have. if it did happen then i simply return to the UK and re-enlist working for HM
• and anything else similar to the above, if you have been burned from a previous relationship that was your problem not mine i don't want to hear your scare mongering stories of how you were ripped of and that i should have a 'grab bag' on standby ready in case i have to do a runner as the family are going to lynch me. who were these blokes married to? not all thai women are the same. Western women are just as bad

any advice would be greatly appreciated so i can at least head over to thailand in the summer with an idea of how to go about it properly. the attached photo is the document me and my wife have to sign together i believe.

thanks

[Inyourendo]

Get the boundaries checked first with a surveyor and all the neighbours have to be notified and be there to check their boundaries all ok......if you do not do it now, you cannot later....and a shit fight may erupt later.

You do not have to do it, depends if you a gambler or not.

Other than that, go to land office with agreed price in bank cheque form ...... also have the transfer costs advised before hand, usually you pay half each .... take that in cash.

Get the title checked yourself at land office ....get a copy first, take to office to check all correct .... make sure you sight original ..... make sure sellers name is on the title ..... not someone else, only deal with owner.

[4evermaat]

You can still opt to do a 30-year lease on the land and register it at the land office. The land title would then have an incumberance on it. This is what a couple of foreigners have done here in Chumphon...not necessarily with their thai wife.

[phitsanulokjohn]

You seem to be a smart kid to come up with a Thailand retirement plan so young.You obviously work hard towards your goal.Now be smart enough to protect it and get a 30 year lease.Very simple to achieve at the land office,with everything done in a few hours.Unlike the 3 months it takes to complete in the Uk,while the solicitors get rich.

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

If the land have clear boundaries, if they are marked with land office numbered pegs there are no need to get the land office involved again. Get the neighbors over and confirm the position of the pegs. If the pegs aren't numbered then get the land office and neighbors involved. Remember the peg numbers must be the same as on the chanote.

Before you confirm the transaction first go to the land office to confirm the ownership of the land and that its not mortgaged. Also confirm that the land has access to a public road, not a private road. If a private road the land office with the permission of the land owner must give access to cross his/her land and that will be noted on the chanote.

The best way to buy land is to drive around and identify the area you want to live in. Then for the wife to ask around for land for sale. After a few days of doing this you will get a good idea of land prices in your target area. Also ask about any proposed developments in the area, locals normally know about things thats about to happen, like a new factory to be build etc.

When identifying land to buy look at where the nearest water and electricity connections are. It can cost you an arm and a leg to get connected.

Good luck.

[Suitcase]

Simple:

With your bank account and ATM card she and her family

can purchase all the land they want!

[1FinickyOne]

I think the first couple of times my wife had to sign something that said the funds came from me... it has never been a problem. Just go to the land office and they will ask the questions and tell you what is needed.

Good luck to you - it has been a good investment for my wife.

[bitcoinforever]

dont think you are going to be able to retire here, do you want to go and get 90 day stamps and 1 year visa renewals every year when you are over 65 ,and hassle now only gets worst as you get older i know a bunch of 80+ guys i have to help out every time. second thing as you kids get to employment age 18 THERE ARE NO OPPORTUNITIES HERE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE, you will have to send them back to your home country. education forget the public schools here might as well as home school or international school . schools should not even be called schools they just turn on the T.V. and let the students watch . Now that you know that make the land an investment to give you and your wife in 18 years <deleted> you money where you can leave with your kids and get them opportunities to live a happy ,prospers life . so you want land that has location main roads where the growth is coming, the Chinese in the next 18 years are going to colonize this place with or without the Thai's permission money exchanges hand at the bank then registered at local land office good luck

[Acharn]

dont think you are going to be able to retire here, do you want to go and get 90 day stamps and 1 year visa renewals every year when you are over 65 ,and hassle now only gets worst as you get older i know a bunch of 80+ guys i have to help out every time. second thing as you kids get to employment age 18 THERE ARE NO OPPORTUNITIES HERE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE, you will have to send them back to your home country. education forget the public schools here might as well as home school or international school . schools should not even be called schools they just turn on the T.V. and let the students watch . Now that you know that make the land an investment to give you and your wife in 18 years <deleted> you money where you can leave with your kids and get them opportunities to live a happy ,prospers life . so you want land that has location main roads where the growth is coming, the Chinese in the next 18 years are going to colonize this place with or without the Thai's permission money exchanges hand at the bank then registered at local land office good luck

Jeebus, if you hate it so much why are you here? I don't mind the 90-day notice and the annual extension was never a hassle until after they kicked Thaksin out. I've been doing the annual extension for 33 years, and the 90 day notification since 1998 or whenever it was they started enforcing the law. As for opportunities here for young people, what would you know about it? You certainly know nothing about what goes on in the schools. Am I going to need help after I'm 80, two years from now? I sure hope I never have to depend on anyone with an attitude like yours.

[steve187]

does your wife have your name on thai id's

1 rai of land up country will not be a lot of money so in my opinion not worth the trouble of a lease or anything else ( would you want to live there anyway if you and your wife parted company)

the only other advise i would give, is don't get in debt in the uk for anything in Thailand., ever!!

[khunPer]

OP, as number 3 in your list, after agreeing the price with the seller, (you and) your wife and seller shall meet at Head-of-Village and let the buying agreement be written and signed there. Normally one part will pay a small fee to HoV for the service (your wife will know custom in the area). That is like a guarantee, as HoV knows land and citizens in village. You shall expect to pay a deposit to seller at this point – the deposit can be anything agreed from 5-10 percent and up to 25 percent – and the contract will also include a compensation either part has to pay the other, in case they back-out of the agreement, normally same as the sales sum.

As it is Chanote title deed, there shall be undisputed land-markers; however it's a good idea to check them before signing anything and paying deposit.

At Land Office the actual transfer of land from Seller to Buyer takes place, often a procedure that takes a whole day. You may be asked to sign a document, that your wife buys the land for her own money, even they are gifted from you. Normally seller will pay tax and buyer will pay transfer fee, both fees use to be around 1 percent of the documented selling price or the value stated by Land Office (varies in different areas); there will also be some stamps and other minor fees, which Land Office may help with what goes to Seller (tax) and Buyer (transfer costs). Fees are paid in cash, and buyer often insist on cash payment; if you use a cashiers cheque, Seller may wish you to follow to the bank clears it. If your selling price is higher than the value used by the Land Office, then go outside to settle payment. Sometimes the tax and transfer fee can be a big discussion – who's paying – so ask HoV to state that in the Sales Agreement; if you cannot agree and the lad is the plot you want, then just accept to pay all fees.

Some Land Offices will accept a VIP-fee – your wife will be able to find out, or Seller may know – where you can have everything done within a few hours instead of waiting in queue; normally it's 1000 baht for smaller plots.

You need to use the land, as you otherwise can loose the right to it – I believe it's within 10-years for Chanote – often it's done by a fence; I mention it as you say you will be living abroad and may not begin to build instantly, as it's going to be used for retirement. If the land is usable for farming, you can also lease it out on up to 3-year agreements, and that way show it's in use; your wife may know (or can find out) how it's best done in that particular area.

Above is based on my experience from several transfers in two provinses, one of them at Isaan, however some things may have changed since, as last time is now a few years back. Your planning sounds good, and I wish you good luck.

[Inyourendo]

Neighbours have been known to move pegs a little bit to suit themselves ..... up to you.

[sometimewoodworker]

OP, as number 3 in your list, after agreeing the price with the seller, (you and) your wife and seller shall meet at Head-of-Village and let the buying agreement be written and signed there. Normally one part will pay a small fee to HoV for the service (your wife will know custom in the area). That is like a guarantee, as HoV knows land and citizens in village. You shall expect to pay a deposit to seller at this point the deposit can be anything agreed from 5-10 percent and up to 25 percent and the contract will also include a compensation either part has to pay the other, in case they back-out of the agreement, normally same as the sales sum.

As it is Chanote title deed, there shall be undisputed land-markers; however it's a good idea to check them before signing anything and paying deposit.

At Land Office the actual transfer of land from Seller to Buyer takes place, often a procedure that takes a whole day. You may be asked to sign a document, that your wife buys the land for her own money, even they are gifted from you. Normally seller will pay tax and buyer will pay transfer fee, both fees use to be around 1 percent of the documented selling price or the value stated by Land Office (varies in different areas); there will also be some stamps and other minor fees, which Land Office may help with what goes to Seller (tax) and Buyer (transfer costs). Fees are paid in cash, and buyer often insist on cash payment; if you use a cashiers cheque, Seller may wish you to follow to the bank clears it. If your selling price is higher than the value used by the Land Office, then go outside to settle payment. Sometimes the tax and transfer fee can be a big discussion who's paying so ask HoV to state that in the Sales Agreement; if you cannot agree and the lad is the plot you want, then just accept to pay all fees.

Some Land Offices will accept a VIP-fee your wife will be able to find out, or Seller may know where you can have everything done within a few hours instead of waiting in queue; normally it's 1000 baht for smaller plots.

You need to use the land, as you otherwise can loose the right to it I believe it's within 10-years for Chanote often it's done by a fence; I mention it as you say you will be living abroad and may not begin to build instantly, as it's going to be used for retirement. If the land is usable for farming, you can also lease it out on up to 3-year agreements, and that way show it's in use; your wife may know (or can find out) how it's best done in that particular area.

Above is based on my experience from several transfers in two provinses, one of them at Isaan, however some things may have changed since, as last time is now a few years back. Your planning sounds good, and I wish you good luck.

Almost perfect apart from the time in the land office my wife has bought 2 plots of land and both times it took under 2 hours with no "fast track" fee.

It is very likely that different land offices have different process times.

[Wayne88]

Get the boundaries checked first with a surveyor and all the neighbours have to be notified and be there to check their boundaries all ok......if you do not do it now, you cannot later....and a shit fight may erupt later.

You do not have to do it, depends if you a gambler or not.

Other than that, go to land office with agreed price in bank cheque form ...... also have the transfer costs advised before hand, usually you pay half each .... take that in cash.

Get the title checked yourself at land office ....get a copy first, take to office to check all correct .... make sure you sight original ..... make sure sellers name is on the title ..... not someone else, only deal with owner.

thanks for the reply.

yes i will make sure that all the boundaries are correct and that all my potential new neighbours are happy.

do you mean that i should get a copy of the title deed from the seller and then take it to the land office for them to confirm it is all correct and the land owner doesnt have a mortgage against the land?

[Wayne88]

You can still opt to do a 30-year lease on the land and register it at the land office. The land title would then have an incumberance on it. This is what a couple of foreigners have done here in Chumphon...not necessarily with their thai wife.

how do i go about arranging the 30 year land lease? can this be arranged at the same time as the purchase?

so my wifes name goes on the chanote title deed but it also details on the title deed that there is a lease agreement with my name on it.

[Wayne88]

You seem to be a smart kid to come up with a Thailand retirement plan so young.You obviously work hard towards your goal.Now be smart enough to protect it and get a 30 year lease.Very simple to achieve at the land office,with everything done in a few hours.Unlike the 3 months it takes to complete in the Uk,while the solicitors get rich.

i don't claim to be smart i just like to have all the boxes properly ticked. especially with something as pricey and important as purchasing land and property overseas. i don't want to break the law in anyway through "loopholes" or starting a fake thai company.

"fail to prepare, prepare to fail" is a good motto to follow!

how do i sort the 30 year lease? i have found a few websites from online lawyers that have template contracts that you can purchase for around £50. are these just a waste of money? can the lease just be sorted out at the land office? i have read somewhere that the land office staff will make it very clear to my wife and i what we will be signing will grant me 30 years right to live on the land but now own it.

[Wayne88]

If the land have clear boundaries, if they are marked with land office numbered pegs there are no need to get the land office involved again. Get the neighbors over and confirm the position of the pegs. If the pegs aren't numbered then get the land office and neighbors involved. Remember the peg numbers must be the same as on the chanote.

Before you confirm the transaction first go to the land office to confirm the ownership of the land and that its not mortgaged. Also confirm that the land has access to a public road, not a private road. If a private road the land office with the permission of the land owner must give access to cross his/her land and that will be noted on the chanote.

The best way to buy land is to drive around and identify the area you want to live in. Then for the wife to ask around for land for sale. After a few days of doing this you will get a good idea of land prices in your target area. Also ask about any proposed developments in the area, locals normally know about things thats about to happen, like a new factory to be build etc.

When identifying land to buy look at where the nearest water and electricity connections are. It can cost you an arm and a leg to get connected.

Good luck.

thank you southernstar for the good advice.

do you know of anywhere that land is advertised for sale? do the land office advertise land for sale? my wife just says you have to drive around and ask people about land that is for sale in different villages.

the online estate agents seem to sell a lot more expensive land nearer the cities. we are looking for somewhere quiet in the countryside. i couldn't stand living to close to Udon Thani. i do like Udon but i like peace and quiet at the same time.

[Wayne88]

dont think you are going to be able to retire here, do you want to go and get 90 day stamps and 1 year visa renewals every year when you are over 65 ,and hassle now only gets worst as you get older i know a bunch of 80+ guys i have to help out every time. second thing as you kids get to employment age 18 THERE ARE NO OPPORTUNITIES HERE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE, you will have to send them back to your home country. education forget the public schools here might as well as home school or international school . schools should not even be called schools they just turn on the T.V. and let the students watch . Now that you know that make the land an investment to give you and your wife in 18 years <deleted> you money where you can leave with your kids and get them opportunities to live a happy ,prospers life . so you want land that has location main roads where the growth is coming, the Chinese in the next 18 years are going to colonize this place with or without the Thai's permission money exchanges hand at the bank then registered at local land office good luck

well to be honest i'm 27 years old now, retirement age is 38 years away for me so it is of little concern to me right now. i'm sure my children and my wife will help me in the future. and chances are the laws may change slightly by then as Thai's realise foreign money is good for Thailand.

They may never alter their laws and sell their land to foreigners. personally i dont see why they should sell their land to foreigners. Just because the west does it why should they. look at london its probably nearly all owned by foreigners driving the prices up through the roof. if thailand sold land to foeigners now the avergae thai person would be forever without the chance to buy land in their own country as all of us greedy foreigners would start buying swathes of land across the country and squeezing them out of the market. they dont earn enough money as it is in isaan and the rest of thailand for that matter.

as for schools i will put my children through international schools in thailand to ensure they receive a decent education.

i will be looking for land in areas with potential for growth. a new railway line has been built close by to my wifes village with new stations connecting bangkok through isaan and laos to china. so this may be somewhere good to build as land prices may increase in the future as people use the railway for commuting.

i'm sure ill manage. it's only money and we only live once. i can always return to blighty if it all goes belly up

[Wayne88]

does your wife have your name on thai id's

1 rai of land up country will not be a lot of money so in my opinion not worth the trouble of a lease or anything else ( would you want to live there anyway if you and your wife parted company)

the only other advise i would give, is don't get in debt in the uk for anything in Thailand., ever!!

yes my wife changed her surname to my name. her passport and thai id card have my name. why do you ask?

[slipperylobster]

I believe you sign a document that states the money did not come from you...even though it did.

[cornishcarlos]

I believe you sign a document that states the money did not come from you...even though it did.

Not necessarily...

4 plots now and never signed anything !

[steve187]

slippery beat me to it

[khunPer]

...

do you know of anywhere that land is advertised for sale? do the land office advertise land for sale? my wife just says you have to drive around and ask people about land that is for sale in different villages.

the online estate agents seem to sell a lot more expensive land nearer the cities. we are looking for somewhere quiet in the countryside. i couldn't stand living to close to Udon Thani. i do like Udon but i like peace and quiet at the same time.

You wife is right, and in rural areas it's often to ask or get in contact with the local Head-of-Village, who often know if some wish to sell.

Another possibility is to check banks in the local area, they sometime have reprocessed land – used as security for non-performing loans – that may be for sale at reasonable price; however that can only be land at higher deed titles like Chanote, eligible for loan-security.

In town there will be real estate agents; you can check, but I don't think they have more rural land-plots advertised. Depending on area and how busy the province's Land Office is, lots of rural land are low title deeds that cannot be officially transferred at Land Office, but it's still traded among villagers (often relatives). At some point the low title deeds may be upgraded to Chanote – you should preferably look for deed titles as Nor Sor 3 or Nor Sor 3 Khor or Chanote.

[slipperylobster]

I believe you sign a document that states the money did not come from you...even though it did.

Not necessarily...

4 plots now and never signed anything !

Never signed anything....lol. That was the other problem. They don't need you, do they?

I suppose, where a wife can qualify for a loan and has income....you may be correct. The problem is for those that cannot and do not have credit or income. Additionally...my wife owns property from a prior marriage...and I signed nothing, paid for nothing and own nothing. In fact, her previous husband still goes there to stake his claim. (I don't really care...but I sure am not paying anything)

Edited March 14, 2016 by slipperylobster