Replacing galvanized rain gutter - would this work ?

[JackisBack]

I'm doing some long needed repairs to a bungalow , and my first job is to replace lengths of the galvanized rain gutter including corners .

I had a price of 600 Baht per meter fitted from a local Thai man who roams the villages in his pickup, which seems high to me.

As I have plenty of time on my hands and the ladders and steps to easily reach the guttering , I though I would have a go my self replacing the guttering . The new guttering is sold at my local builders shop for 85 Baht per open length ( 1.8 Mt length ) and 95 Baht for a length with an end plate / down pipe .

My only stumbling block is going to be how to make the corners , which are not sold at the local builders shop , I have the tools to cut and bend the guttering into a corner shape , but I do not have the heavy duty soldering tool that Ive seen used before to make the corners and join each length of guttering together .

I'm wondering if its possible to use rivets and a silicone sealer to replace the standard soldered joints for making corners and joining the guttering sections together , I know its not going to look so neat and tidy using rivets on corner units , but going on my past un happy involvement with Thai workers , I'm convinced I could do a better job .

Any thoughts / advice most welcome

[inzman]

I think you have it figured out. Sounds just fine.

[CGW]

Would it not be easier to source a soldering iron? they must be available on the local market. http://www.lincolnequip.com/soldering-irons-and-accessories.cfm

[Crossy]

Would it not be easier to source a soldering iron? they must be available on the local market. http://www.lincolnequip.com/soldering-irons-and-accessories.cfm

My thoughts exactly, maybe a few poppers to hold everything nicely in place then solder for a permanent, watertight job.

[Lamkyong]

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[kokesaat]

Although I haven't tried it myself, if the need ever arises to solder something...especially a big job like gutters.......I'm going to use my kitchen torch. The torch portion are sold in many of the open markets (about 350 baht) and the cans of gas can be bought in Tesco, Big C....about 35 baht a can. The gas seems to last forever.

You can use the torch for a million other uses....starting your bbq, roasting an ant pile, etc etc.

[JackisBack]

The thought of buying a large soldering iron and gas burner set up did cross my mind , but I think due to its large size and limited use , I may only use it once for the guttering replacement and then it would only sit un used for many future years gathering dust in a cupboard some where . The smaller kitchen gas torch may be a bit too small for the number of soldered joints needed , may be some thing similar but a bit larger and still gas powered hand held may do the job , the idea of using just a few pop rivets to keep the galvanized metal in position while permanently soldering the joints in permanent situ , seems a good one.

The new gutters

It all sounds possible on paper , but in practice , I wonder ?

[CGW]

Is it possible? a definite yes - I have worked with steel in one form another all my life from forming ducting to building drilling rigs, could I do this job? I have the skills! But practically, especially given we are now getting into the hot season, No - I used UPVC!

IF, I was to tackle this job I would try to use blowtorch as below, (I use to light cigars, plenty of heat which I seem to check frequently by burning myself!) should be easy to get solder to "run" please try and let us know

[topt]

OP I will be interested to hear how you get on as I have still yet to find someone to fix my joint to/on the down pipe on existing guttering. Unfortunately it is two storeys up and even the extendable ladder I have does not really go up high enough I had decided to tape it but cannot quite reach safely.

[JackisBack]

OP I will be interested to hear how you get on as I have still yet to find someone to fix my joint to/on the down pipe on existing guttering. Unfortunately it is two storeys up and even the extendable ladder I have does not really go up high enough I had decided to tape it but cannot quite reach safely.

I'm going to give the DIY guttering replacement a go after just seeing a neighbours recent gutter installation carried out by the local Thai gutter installation expert , the joints were soldered and it looked like the solder had been applied with an electric trowel, the corner pieces were off angle and the overall installation looked like a 5 year old child had been let loose .

My idea was to purchase a hand held butane gas torch similar as showed in kokesatt's post #6 .

Then clean all the galvanized guttering joint surfaces with paint thinners or rubbing alcohol , then apply some soldering flux paste to the cleaned surfaces then rivet the guttering lengths together, then heat up the riveted areas with the hand held gas torch , then apply solder onto / into the riveted joints to make long lasting water tight soldered joint .

I was all so thinking that if I applied a coat of Red Oxide Primer paint to all the inner guttering surfaces where the rain water runs along , this may in some way extend the overall life of the galvanized coating .

And then once the Red Oxide Primer paint had fully dried I would then paint only the soldered joint areas with a rubberized waterproofing roof shield paint , which should add extra layer of protection to stop the soldered joints from leaking .

Now the fly in the ointment

Ive been all over the place and have not yet managed to find a hand held butane gas torch , the only thing I've found are small cans of butane gas used for camping stoves , in Tesco Lotus .

So if I can't get hold of a hand held butane gas torch ( and spare gas canisters ) then this is my next possible non soldering DIY option ( 2 )

Clean all the galvanized guttering joint surfaces with paint thinners or rubbing alcohol , then apply a layer of Roof and Gutter silicon sealer on the joint areas , then rivet the gutter lengths together.

Once the Roof and Gutter silicon sealer has set and the joints are set , then apply a coat of Red Oxide Primer paint all along the inner gutter surface where the rain runs.

Once the Red Oxide Primer paint is dry , then apply a top coat on the joint areas only of rubberized waterproofing roof shield paint.

Currently I can't find a hand held butane gas torch and as I want to do the gutter replacement soon , it looks like its going to be option 2 , but I would have preferred the solder option

[Crossy]

There's a whole thread regarding blowtorches. It's knowing where to look and what to look for.

Here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/881436-blow-torch-impossible-to-buy-in-thailand/

Ours came from MegaHome, Rangsit.

[INDI12]

ummm some of the bakery suppliers have torches. or did have before yok etc........

[JackisBack]

There's a whole thread regarding blowtorches. It's knowing where to look and what to look for.

Here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/881436-blow-torch-impossible-to-buy-in-thailand/

Ours came from MegaHome, Rangsit.

Thanks for the link

When I was out looking for the gas blowtorch I came across a heavy soldering gun which l had never seen on sale before , so I bought one ( 399 Baht )

and never really thought about trying to solder the galvanized guttering , thinking that an electric soldering iron would just not become hot enough

for a large metal area. Then thanks to your link I spotted the post #17 by MaiChai about using an electric soldering iron .

So I'm going to have a test go with the new soldering gun on one length of guttering , I think the soldering gun is about 1,500 Watts .

I will post back the outcome

[manfredtillmann]

pop rivets and roof / gutter silicone are the go. nothing else is being used in australia, no one solders anymore. silicone stays flexible and absorbs expansion & contractions due to temperature changes. soldering is not the best solution and is as outdated as copper plumbing, lead flashing and aluminium damp course.

[CGW]

Let us know how you get on with the soldering, I think electric solder iron will struggle, preheat with blow torch? - good luck

Is Thailand the last place on earth that still uses "Red Oxide Paint" 45 years ago when I was a apprentice this was used to "prime" steel, here they are still using it, note its a primer, without a seal on top of the primer bare steel would have as much protection! Many better one part paints on the market today.

[IMHO]

Another alternative is to find a proper price

Basic gal guttering normally runs from 150-250 Baht/meter installed - not 600 (what the).

Then no need for you to go up a ladder, cut your hands on sharp edges, buy the tools or learn how to solder

[JackisBack]

pop rivets and roof / gutter silicone are the go. nothing else is being used in australia, no one solders anymore. silicone stays flexible and absorbs expansion & contractions due to temperature changes. soldering is not the best solution and is as outdated as copper plumbing, lead flashing and aluminium damp course.

The Pop rivets and silicone method is my next try

[JackisBack]

Let us know how you get on with the soldering, I think electric solder iron will struggle, preheat with blow torch? - good luck

Is Thailand the last place on earth that still uses "Red Oxide Paint" 45 years ago when I was a apprentice this was used to "prime" steel, here they are still using it, note its a primer, without a seal on top of the primer bare steel would have as much protection! Many better one part paints on the market today.

I had forgotten about Rex Oxide Paint until I saw the tin

[JackisBack]

Another alternative is to find a proper price

Basic gal guttering normally runs from 150-250 Baht/meter installed - not 600 (what the).

Then no need for you to go up a ladder, cut your hands on sharp edges, buy the tools or learn how to solder

I'm sure when our local '' guttering expert '' came by and saw the farangs nice bungalow , the farang price list was pulled out and going on what ive seen of his and other Thai '' Tradesmen's '' work , I'm sure I can do a lot better .

[JackisBack]

Well today I had a go using the new soldering gun

Cut one length of guttering into two and cut the ends to make a corner

Cleaned all surfaces to be soldered and applied soldering paste/flux , and made several small solder spots to hold every thing together

Next applied a lot more solder along all the joints , which ran into the joint areas with ease , while I was applying pressure with a screwdriver to keep the joints flat.

Then I cleaned all the guttering joint surfaces and applied a coat of rubberized waterproofing roof shield paint , to the joint areas only .

Overall I was very happy with the new soldering gun , the speed and high soldering tip heat generated was impressive and ample to do any soldering on the guttering , the finished corner seems sturdy and solid .

my next attempt on another corner unit , I will use the pop rivet and silicon sealer method , so I can compare both ways .

[CGW]

Well done, looks good, I would think the soldered would be the best method?

[steve187]

looks good, i noticed in some earlier photos the corner was mitred, would that be the norm

[kannot]

I opted for upvc guttering, it really wasnt expensive i think a 4 metre length was about 490baht and a doddle to put up, no painting no soldering no removing in 5-7 years where its rusted thru.

Id love to have paid someone to do it but they simply cannot do any job right round here...............I do everything myself now.