Update Of Restricted Occupation For Foreigners

[cutter007]

7. No Auction.

A bit ambigious! So using ebay for on-line selling of goods overseas (but while in Thailand) is illegal????

The list might as well say every god ###### thing is illegal for a falang to do workwise in Thailand!

I think only Indonesia has stricter laws than this.

Ebay would be the auctioner, you would only be selling something, which is still fine.

The point most people are missing is you can still we a shareholder in a business and help out, you just can't be doing everything yourself if it is close to one of these restricted areas.

[s.pylos]

Good grief...So...what else can we do in Thailand??

You can spend or give away money!

That's all what you are asked !

[sandy]

[cutter007]

Does that mean that a foreigner can never be an accountant or auditor in Thailand? So what about the people who are in this profession currently.

Can be a rather dangerous occupation here. The last notable auditor I heard about was a guy called Michael Walmsley who was shot dead for being too good at his job.

There are no foreign CPAs or accountants in Thailand, so there there goes your what about people in this profession already. They won't give a CPA license to a foreigner, and a foreigner can't sign the blank that lists who the registered accountant for a company will be.

If you see some foreigners that appear to have accounting positions in Thailand, that is an illusion,

they are only consultants, to Thais. Meaning they have no power to sign anything that the govenment would give credit to, so there work is meaningless without a Thai accountant.

Most multinationals imploy all Thais in the accounting divisions.

At high level positions there they might have a foreigner suporvising them, but this would be classified as a manager and not an accountant.

You people are all missing the point, this list is for Burmese workers, and other workers from poor countries when they are talking about 90% of these jobs. The other 10% that are close to professional occupations, you whities couldn't get a job doing them anyways, so there is nothing to worry about.

[Nemo.]

THis list excludes virtually everything prof/technical - Thailand has massive shortages in skilled areas it needs to develop. So basically any job that can be done by a Thai - even if done so badly it ruins the economy - has to be done by a Thai. Why then allow English teachers? there are so many Thai English teachers. They can easily teach english? maybe badly but not as bad as many of the jobs listed

Just look at Singapore. It is full of foreigners working in all sort of industries. They bring in expertise that generates wealth that benefits all Singaporeans. Thats why Singapore is rich (despite having no real advantages and being short of space) and other SE Asian countries poor.

[farangconnection]

5. Driving mechanically propelled carried or driving non-mechanically-propelled vehicle, excluding international aircraft piloting.

boat crew on diving charters.

6. Shop attendance.

many falangs work/ own shops in tourist areas

As I have a work permit that covers both of the above, am I breaking the Law?

[Choscura]

why the hel_l do they bother with this shit? just make one rule- "kiss our ass and give us money".

I still consider thailand severely lacking in skilled labor in many areas- buildings and electronics not the least of them- and suddenly outlawing the people who are able to do these things (or will usually do them without trying to mess around with you) is not very smart.

Edited October 28, 2006 by Choscura

[ThaiPauly]

5. Driving mechanically propelled carried or driving non-mechanically-propelled vehicle, excluding international aircraft piloting.

boat crew on diving charters.

6. Shop attendance.

many falangs work/ own shops in tourist areas

As I have a work permit that covers both of the above, am I breaking the Law?

I have e-mailed my Lawyer about this M,,,I will let you know when he lets me know....but as its Saturday I dont think I will get a response till Monday

[cutter007]

5. Driving mechanically propelled carried or driving non-mechanically-propelled vehicle, excluding international aircraft piloting.

boat crew on diving charters.

6. Shop attendance.

many falangs work/ own shops in tourist areas

As I have a work permit that covers both of the above, am I breaking the Law?

I have e-mailed my Lawyer about this M,,,I will let you know when he lets me know....but as its Saturday I dont think I will get a response till Monday

I don't need a lawyer to answer the second one, you aren't a shop attendant, you are a shop manager.

For all you out there that can't figure out what a shop attendant is, it is someone that works in a shop but has no ownership or vested interest in the shop other that to receive a pay check for sitting behind the counter................ I have never seen a farang doing this job before.

[coalminer]

Putting this humoruous discussion aside, I think that Thailand is becoming a dangerous place for foreigners.

Last time I was at Thai Immigration in Bangkok for my 90-days report, there was a big billboard displaying continuous a banner that "everyone who knows of an alien working in Thailand without a work permit should report this to Thai Immigration".

I can see very easily a fahrang who dont like your face or has a grudge against you (and that goes for a lot of fahrangs in LOS), filling an anomymous report to the Thai Immogration that: "I have seen Mr. X performing an action against rule x without a work permit".

Even if you have a work permit and should be allowed to perform that work, you will get a visit from Thai Immigration asking questions about the report and going into their files as a suspect individu.

Brings the times of the which hunting to my mind.

Apart from fahrangs filling such a report, ther are 65 million Thais who can also make such a report against any fahrang.

[Tattered Backpack]

Well, that is certainly a thorough list. So, what is obvious is that one is not suppose to work in Thailand without proper authority to do so. Nothing new, really. HOWEVER, one could still do their "at home" job while in Thailand.

Last year, when I first visited TVF, I got to thinking what the work-around is for this rule. (It's the same thing for every country, so I'm not pointing fingers at the Thai government.) And the answer soon became obvious. Work at home and spend your money in Thailand--but not as a tourist. I've been doing this for 5 years now (not only in Thailand, but other countries too). If you haven't figured out this riddle yet, it's because I do my work (work generated from my home country and does not involve the country I am currently in--Thailand) over the Internet. And for me it meets my criteria of respecting State rules on employment, but not having to reside in my home country just to make enough money to spend it someplace else.

Where was I going with this? Oh, yeah. So, a few months ago a couple of us "working nomads" as I heard the phrase recently used, put together a webpage on this sort of living. I think it is in keeping with the philosophy of TVF, but because they have a rule about commercial announcements (though this webpage is not intended as that) I'll not plug in the site address. (But if TVF emails me that it's okay, then I will) Anyway, there are now a few resources out there about work-while-traveling via the Internet (again, not many) and this might be a good place for many of us who love living in Thailand but are limited to what we are able to do with respects to earning a living.

cheers,

[animatic]

Clearly they want their options open to get rid of Farangs who do work

and DON'T employe several Thais. Thereby not passing on knowlege to Thais

in any discipline.

Interestingly they do NOT include music or music production.

Nor video and film production and the advertising field.

But go try and have ONE farang in a band in some villages

and they stop the show cold.

Yet 10 km away half the bands are totally farang.

I suspect it depends on the local big policeman's son,

or other family member, being in a band.

3. Bricklaying, carpentry or other construction works

Yeah right, they are NOT enforcing this one.

It's law, but they will ignore it if several Thai's are working.

Many of these restrictions are on traditional Thai jobs,

and the making of Thai cultural artifacts.

But the clear aim is for young Thais to be given work, and trained,

on the job, in exchange for a farang being allowed to work too.

As an over all goal, this is not bad, and a good way to raiseout

of the 3rd world into the 1st.

If you come here to work, you are EXPECTED to help with the load.

But then again... SOME jobs like the CISCO trained IT specialist,

asked for above, WILL be a long time in coming....

in principle a good idea in practice, a tad impractical.

But this is another example of patriarcal rulings from above.

We see a problem, lets make the visitors fix this,

whether they like it or not.

Since THEY don't lose face being innovative.

[brahmburgers]

I am developing a farmstead which focuses on fruits that are not yet in Thai markets.

I notice that, though I am not allowed to be a farmworker (that's ok), I am allowed to be active in a supervisionary role. With such a list, obviously there are many specific jobs that are not mentioned. For example, I didn't see hotel or hospitality workers (running a bar). In most cases, it basically comes down to:

A. who you're dealing with in terms of Thai authority. As all in Thailand is based more upon subjectiveness than upon 'rule of law'

B. Who you know, and who/what you represent. Example: a bedraggled farang with no Thai wife and no connections found casting bronze Buddha statues would be busted. Whereas a well-to-do farang with a sophisticated Thai wife who happened to doin the same in the backyard of his 12 million baht estate - would be praised and probably get a laudatory feature write-up in the major newspapers.

[southbot]

My Rant:::::

What's the big deal? They simply corrected some poorly written English in the original rules. That is fine by me. I have lived and worked in Thailand for over 12 years. Those rules were there when I arrived here back then. They were pointed out to me immediately by immigration when I applied for my first work permit.

The rules are flexible, always have been. A lot of it is simply terminology, nomenclature, syntax, whatever-you-want-to-call-the-job-at-hand.

DON'T call yourself a LAWYER, you are a "legal expert to the chief ###### of blahblahblah".

Don't call yourself a FARMER, you are an "assistant agricultural technical adviser and manager".

You just have to come up with bunches of different names for variuos jobs, that is all.

Regards the ban on making local Thai handicrafts, fair enough I say.

I have run buildings site, I picked up hammers, drills, other tools, I used them. But the thing was that I was the supervisor, not the carpenter. I did not work as a carpenter, I worked as a supervisor and as such occasionlly had to show a worker which end of the hammer to hold and which end to hit your thumb with. Not to mention my frequent displays onsite of how to use power tools safely. This did NOT constitute my working as a chippy/carpenter.

hel_l, why would I want to swing a bloody hammer all day in this heat?

I think the list is, in fact, pretty fair and pretty clear.

I have friends working as architects, but their title is stuff like "assistant to chief architect". In one case, the chief architect is in fact the Thai Tea Lady. If you get my drift.

I have people I know working as shop front sales persons, but their title is "business manager and expert" or some other <deleted> like that.

I even had to change my own title on my permit recently from "technology consultant" to "technology and engineering expert" or something like that - my Thai wife cannot quite transliterate my new title for me!

So, go do whatever you like, just be sure to hire a Thai Tea Lady and give her a name like "Chief Legal Officer" or "Senior Architectural Consultant" (Thais can still be consultants, you see)

The list is simply to try to define certain works that are restricted to Thais to attempt to ensure employment for same. So what? Fair enough!

And/But - yeah, wouldn't bloody hurt if they did this in Aussie, UK, US, etc - except it would cause a world-wide shitstorm of criticism from none other than - "aliens".

What the heck, TIT, get used to it and welcome!

We all live in an age of uncertainty. My friends back home tell me I am better off here than there, even with recent bad turns of events, visa goal-post movements, work permit requirements jumping around like 'roos on speed...... Uncertainty is the only principle we should subscribe to in the long run in any case. And I find Thailand a great teacher of such principals, would you not agree with me on that?

I like it here, I will stay until they physically throw me out. That maybe soon. It may not be soon. Who knows? Uncertainty....

cheers

[Steph1012]

29. Professional civil engineering concerning design and calculation, systemization, analysis, planning, testing, construction supervision, or consulting services, excluding work requiring specialized techniques.

What are some of these?...any examples?

Applied thinking

Foresight

Planning

Time management

Organisation

[Steph1012]

Well, this is just another blow for the Thai economy. I am almost beyond caring what they do anymore. I export from Asia and at the same time am losing the will to continue to do this from the very country I have made my base, i.e. Thailand..

Thats right Andrew.

All our customers come from Europe and we advertise from here and lure people to Thailand via our websites. I can just as easily start including places like Halum Bay in Vietnam as its very business friendly there.

Further, I have two agents (personal friends) that are eager to sell Thai manufactured furniture in the Uk and Denmark. Like you say, balls to em, I can get it done more easily from Cambodia these days and will follow this up in the new year.

Thailand for the Thais! let them eat all their own Jasmine Rice, shrimp, curry paste and all the exotic vegetables that giant stores like Tesco, Big C and Carrefore sell in Europe. They bash Tesco etc. and Tesco etc. will shit on them and their developing economy from a height most Thais don't realise exists. Let Thais buy all the produce they make, let them go to Europe with their primary school level English and German and try and hard sell it there.

The up side is that Thailand is going to remain a poor country (read cheap for us to live in ) for many years to come. The more so if we live here and do business from neighbouring countries.

[Robski]

Well said southbot, there seem to be a few posters on this site that jump at at every opportunity to, critisize the machinations of LOS, yes at moment rules are ambiguous and open to interperatation, but there are changes happening and the Goverment do seem to be making the effort to clarify their position in many areas. the protection of areas like handicrafts and manual trades is, I would think, aimed at stopping foreign cheap labour from undercutting the already very low wages of the Thai's. As a 'Brit' this is something that would have people dancing in the street if it were implemented back home. Thailand does seem to be going through a transition, I hope for the better, but it will take time and if they can reinforce the foundations by providing clear guidelines, and get rid of the ambiguity that creates uncertainty, we will all feel more secure about our future here. Of course money talks and will always be a factor, but do you know of any country where this is not the case?

[lukamar]

let them go to Europe with their primary school level English and German and try and hard sell it there.

You have me laughing......

Two years ago the Royal Thai Consulate in Vancouver (Canada) sponsored a trade show and brought a fair number of exhibitors from Thailand. We went to try and gain some contacts for products that we were interested in importing. Not one of the companies contacted us after the event as promised, nor did they send the price lists or the samples. The people they sent as representatives had incredibly poor English language skills, no product/company knowledge, or small take away samples - Some did not even have business cards. My wife ended up translating everything. There was a booth from the Thai BOI or similar and they actually contacted me after the event and were very helpful. I may as well have just contacted them directly and the exhibitors may as well have stayed home. This was a good example of why you need a professional to do the job, not just someone that is on the list..

[mikederson]

We only think about ourselves here. "Falang falang falang". What about all the Burmese migrant workers? They're all manual labourers. Does this mean they are going to start expelling Burmese workers, or that they'll feel they'll have to work illegally without permits?

[peter48]

Intersting discussion and quite funny but I do like the bit about being 'open' as London probably is one of the most open cities in the world and is presently remembering the ' Big Bang' - the opening up of the financial markets etc., back in Thatcher's day. London is now one of the biggest transactors of financial transactions in the world involving shares, foreign exchange, investements, shipping orders, brokerage etc., and has massive numbers of foreign banks here etc., It is booming and the amount of money washing around this city is obvious.

Restictions as operate in Thailand can not be good for business in the long term and are misguided

[Rdrokit]

I am soooooo glad that I am retired.

[chatters]

Point 29 - no change but maybe it will influence farang property developers if enforcement becomes the norm?

interesting many of the constructions being carried out in jomtien and pattaya seemed to be controlled by farangs where do they come up in the mix, and it is mainly the farangs designing houses etc. As far as construction is concern it is very disappointing that so many thais have no true building experience

and much of their work can be seen thru out thailand. It is a great pity that professionals ( farangs) from the building and construction fields cannot be bought in to train these people in better building skills.. Also if you read the bangkok post there are daily ads for hotel staff, I think if their was more help from experience farangs in the industry there would be less advertisments in the papers. This is the same with a lot of businesses in thailand. We do not want to take over, but give training in the respective fields.

[bkkandrew]

We only think about ourselves here. "Falang falang falang". What about all the Burmese migrant workers? They're all manual labourers. Does this mean they are going to start expelling Burmese workers, or that they'll feel they'll have to work illegally without permits?

But - anyone can post here!

On the subject of the Burmese, they will not take the slightest bit of notice. They will continue to work, get caught, be deported, sneak back, work, get caught etc. etc. etc.

The above is not exactly a lifestlye choice I had in mind for myself..

[pete@thedang]

so, having just decided to own a bar in LOS what can I do except sit at the bar and tell my staff to do all the work? Maybe I was going to do that anyway.

[on-on]

Well said southbot, there seem to be a few posters on this site that jump at at every opportunity to, critisize the machinations of LOS

Disgruntled paper of cloth umbrella makers, no doubt.

[Sunbelt Asia]

so, having just decided to own a bar in LOS what can I do except sit at the bar and tell my staff to do all the work? Maybe I was going to do that anyway.

You can manage the bar. You can even be a bartender if you are making a number of exotic drinks and transferring knowledge. ( Your wp must state you will be a bartender) The same as a cook or chef in a restaurant.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[francois]

:QUOTE:33. Cigarette making by hand:/QUOTE:

beware if you roll your cigarettes ...

francois

[pete@thedang]

so, having just decided to own a bar in LOS what can I do except sit at the bar and tell my staff to do all the work? Maybe I was going to do that anyway.

You can manage the bar. You can even be a bartender if you are making a number of exotic drinks and transferring knowledge. ( Your wp must state you will be a bartender) The same as a cook or chef in a restaurant.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Thanks for that - will do so and also show staff how to boil an egg etc. etc. can I also do the admin bits in the back office? Management's one thing but my thai bride, family and staff wont be able to do e-mails, room bookings and so forth, well at least not straight away - so I'm teaching them Yes?

[Sunbelt Asia]

so, having just decided to own a bar in LOS what can I do except sit at the bar and tell my staff to do all the work? Maybe I was going to do that anyway.

You can manage the bar. You can even be a bartender if you are making a number of exotic drinks and transferring knowledge. ( Your wp must state you will be a bartender) The same as a cook or chef in a restaurant.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Thanks for that - will do so and also show staff how to boil an egg etc. etc. can I also do the admin bits in the back office? Management's one thing but my thai bride, family and staff wont be able to do e-mails, room bookings and so forth, well at least not straight away - so I'm teaching them Yes?

You are simply the Director or MD. This is not a problem for you to manage the business.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[dsfbrit]

I have googled outside the forum but cannot find the Thai version of BE 2522 for my Thai wife to read.

She doesn't speak nor read /write English and its the first time she has shown any interest in all the stuff I have told her about the visa changes - so I want to encourage this enthusiasm.

Thanks for your help

[texhouston]

Good grief...So...what else can we do in Thailand??

the only thng you can do is invest your time , money and emotions ( if youve got any left ! )