Update Of Restricted Occupation For Foreigners

[tracer0]

I am so glad I have so many hobbies!

Do hobbies exist under Thai law?? I cannot see them accepting anyone working on something FREE.

[Maestro]

I have googled outside the forum but cannot find the Thai version of BE 2522 for my Thai wife to read.

Laws and regulations are published in the Government Gazette. This is published in Thai, and there is a place or two in Bangkok who publish English translations of it.

If it is not the “Royal Decree Prescribing works relating to occupation and professional in which an alien is prohibited to engage B.E.2522” itself you are looking for but the annex mentioned in the original post of this thread, what you want to do is get hold of the issue of the Government Gazette dated 26 October 2006.

I do not read Thai and therefore do not know if it can be found on this area of the website of Thammasat University, but have your wife look at it and see if it lets her find that particular issue of the Government Gazette.

If your wife does find it, perhaps you could post the link in this thread, for others who might be interested in the Thai original text.

---------------

Maestro

[sting01]

29. Professional civil engineering concerning design and calculation, systemization, analysis, planning, testing, construction supervision, or consulting services, excluding work requiring specialized techniques.

What are some of these?...any examples?

Bridges able to support 4m+ of snow during 4 month by temperature of minus 40 celsius during the night (usual in Franche Comte province in France and in Siberia (Russia)).

Another exemple would be technology related to trans oceanic cable but used exclusively in Chinag Mai province.

[sting01]

5. Driving mechanically propelled carried or driving non-mechanically-propelled vehicle, excluding international aircraft piloting.

boat crew on diving charters.

6. Shop attendance.

many falangs work/ own shops in tourist areas

As I have a work permit that covers both of the above, am I breaking the Law?

I have e-mailed my Lawyer about this M,,,I will let you know when he lets me know....but as its Saturday I dont think I will get a response till Monday

I don't need a lawyer to answer the second one, you aren't a shop attendant, you are a shop manager.

For all you out there that can't figure out what a shop attendant is, it is someone that works in a shop but has no ownership or vested interest in the shop other that to receive a pay check for sitting behind the counter................ I have never seen a farang doing this job before.

Mostly french restaurants/bars in Bangkok have in more of the owners a third person (from a french Hotel restaurant school) working , behind the counter.

[Dakhar]

let them go to Europe with their primary school level English and German and try and hard sell it there.

You have me laughing......

Two years ago the Royal Thai Consulate in Vancouver (Canada) sponsored a trade show and brought a fair number of exhibitors from Thailand. We went to try and gain some contacts for products that we were interested in importing. Not one of the companies contacted us after the event as promised, nor did they send the price lists or the samples. The people they sent as representatives had incredibly poor English language skills, no product/company knowledge, or small take away samples - Some did not even have business cards. My wife ended up translating everything. There was a booth from the Thai BOI or similar and they actually contacted me after the event and were very helpful. I may as well have just contacted them directly and the exhibitors may as well have stayed home. This was a good example of why you need a professional to do the job, not just someone that is on the list..

I have seen this so many times! Thais hate to loose face, and because of this they hate to use a translator. They would rather waste time and money attending useless meetings than use a translator. Thais have yet to discover that Eng. is the language of business. If you doubt me, go to Shanghai. If you see a farang standing around... don't expect him to speak Mandarin, instead all the Chinese folks around him will be speaking English. No I am not saying that farangs should not learn to speak Thai. My point is, it is a fact, English is the language of business, and if you want to do business, generate some reall dollars..... you need English.

[Arkady]

It looks as if this represents no major change from the previous list but it could be a sign that the Commerce Ministry is gearing up to revamp or refine the Alien Business Law in general. The obvious thing to do is lift foreign ownership restrictions on most types of business e.g. those not on the list under discussion but tighten restrictions on strategic businesses like telecoms, broadcasting, airlines etc and spell out laws against use of nominees in the strategic sectors. The current laws make life tedious for smaller foreign investors in non-strategic sectors that don't need to be protected but have failed to keep large foreign investors with deep pockets like Temasek out of the strategic sectors. Unfortunately things are likely to get worse before getting better and I would expect just a tightening of existing laws before any liberalisation takes place.

Re the list of resticted professions for individuals what always kills me is the mealy mouthed farang lawyers who like to be holier than thou claiming that they always advise foreign clients to respect the letter of the Thai law. It would be funny to see the current law being strictly enforced with them being prosecuted and deported for illegally practising law here. Any cursory investigation would reveal that they are not doing whatever it says on their work permits.

[udon]

Aviculture wasn't mentioned, Phew!

So I can now clean out the <deleted> in the birdcage......

Hang on, that's manual work....... Geez, they've got me again.

[pete@thedang]

so, having just decided to own a bar in LOS what can I do except sit at the bar and tell my staff to do all the work? Maybe I was going to do that anyway.

You can manage the bar. You can even be a bartender if you are making a number of exotic drinks and transferring knowledge. ( Your wp must state you will be a bartender) The same as a cook or chef in a restaurant.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Thanks for that - will do so and also show staff how to boil an egg etc. etc. can I also do the admin bits in the back office? Management's one thing but my thai bride, family and staff wont be able to do e-mails, room bookings and so forth, well at least not straight away - so I'm teaching them Yes?

You are simply the Director or MD. This is not a problem for you to manage the business.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Thanks again for that. As you are sponsor of this site, I'm genuinely pleased to see your responses. Its good to talk - as they say. the next time I visit LOS it will become serious. I've read with great interest the messages posted here, I've heard the horror stories, the good ones. At the end of the day I think i'm a sensible and big enough bloke to be able to figure out the way it is. But its good to hear unbiased informal advice and I think thats what this forum is all about. So, cheers again. Shame if you want to roll yer own cigs though isn't it?

[stretch]

Regarding the whole thai handicrafts part of this...are farangs allowed to sell handicrafts and such like whilst living in Thailand - on websites/ebay etc?? Therefore exporting them out (individually or in bulk) to other countries? Many are already of course..is that allowed?

Or is it just the production/manafucture of handicrafts and things like wood carvings (as in point #4) that is forbidden and that they are getting at here?

Thanks in advance for any clarification.

[atwr]

It's payback for the whole John Mark Karr thing. Some face was lost and rules are going to be tight for a while.

I'd be interested in hearing opinions about the auction thing too. I noticed in the past few years more and more thais getting involved with ebay, maybe the gov don't want them to have to compete with tourists trying to make a living while staying in Thailand.

If I'm caught helping my in-laws in the field for free, say reported by a local that hates farrangs because a tourist bus ran over his cat 20 years ago, do I get exported?

[dsfbrit]

I have had all kinds of problems accessing the University site referenced above. The characters wont display.

The link below has the list in Thai (starts page 2) from the other site mentioned.

Its the old list - ie: 18 prohibits 'stone work' and not the new list which is 'bronze work'.

I will continue to try to get the new list, but thought this may be useful for now.

Certainly my Thai wife was amazed at what the farang was not allowed to do. She had no idea at all and wondered then how so many farang seemed to work in Thailand doing all this 'illegal' work.

I just said its your country - you tell me!!!

http://www.mua.go.th/users/inter/Database%...al%20Decree.pdf

Edited October 29, 2006 by dsfbrit

[Sunbelt Asia]

Regarding the whole thai handicrafts part of this...are farangs allowed to sell handicrafts and such like whilst living in Thailand - on websites/ebay etc??

Yes

By the way, auction in this case is being a live auctioneer. This you cannot do, unless you are showing a Thai national how to do it.

Therefore exporting them out (individually or in bulk) to other countries? Many are already of course..is that allowed?

yes

Or is it just the production/manafucture of handicrafts and things like wood carvings (as in point #4) that is forbidden and that they are getting at here?

You yourself cannot carve the wood to make the handicraft. You can show a Thai how to do it, but the actual carving must be done by a Thai. ( I'm sure in most cases, they would be showing you though. You can export the carved wood, this is not a restricted trade.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[expatpuchai]

Its amazing Thailand alright. Recently I viewed the Thai Government's website for customs. It clearly states that personal and household effects are EXEMPT from customs duties, when being shipped from overseas.

I've learned after being contacted by the local Thai shipping agent, that this is NOT the case. I will be assessed customs duties for my old books, DVD's, Videos, clothes etc. Has anyone had a similar experience here before??

Its amazing that the official Government site would publish that misleading information, and allow this 'rip-off farang' prevailing attitude to continue.

Oh yeah, its amazing Thailand. After being here one year, the amazing bit has worn off.

[lopburi3]

Its amazing Thailand alright. Recently I viewed the Thai Government's website for customs. It clearly states that personal and household effects are EXEMPT from customs duties, when being shipped from overseas.

I've learned after being contacted by the local Thai shipping agent, that this is NOT the case. I will be assessed customs duties for my old books, DVD's, Videos, clothes etc. Has anyone had a similar experience here before??

Its amazing that the official Government site would publish that misleading information, and allow this 'rip-off farang' prevailing attitude to continue.

Oh yeah, its amazing Thailand. After being here one year, the amazing bit has worn off.

The web site is here

Do you meet the requirements? Are you exempt from the red print section?

[lukamar]

Oh yeah, its amazing Thailand. After being here one year, the amazing bit has worn off.

They have changed to Unforgettable Thailand this year and with everything that has gone on so far, someone must have had a very good fortune teller...

[drummer]

The point most people are missing is you can still we a shareholder in a business and help out, you just can't be doing everything yourself if it is close to one of these restricted areas.

Everything by yourself or anything by yourself? As it was previously stated, Thai law is written to variably enforce each case based on the case's own merits... While this system has some merit - some offenders should, in all fairness, be treated differently than others - it does not provide a stable, reliable system. Say I'm working in Thailand (I'm not, I'm in America) - the list of stuff is so broad that someone else with some influence could get a ruling that I was working illegally, almost whatever I was doing, whether the work permit was valid or not. Its not a system conducive to international business. This list is not exhaustive, either.

Does that mean that a foreigner can never be an accountant or auditor in Thailand? So what about the people who are in this profession currently.

Can be a rather dangerous occupation here. The last notable auditor I heard about was a guy called Michael Walmsley who was shot dead for being too good at his job.

There are no foreign CPAs or accountants in Thailand, so there there goes your what about people in this profession already. They won't give a CPA license to a foreigner, and a foreigner can't sign the blank that lists who the registered accountant for a company will be.

If you see some foreigners that appear to have accounting positions in Thailand, that is an illusion,

they are only consultants, to Thais. Meaning they have no power to sign anything that the govenment would give credit to, so there work is meaningless without a Thai accountant.

Most multinationals imploy all Thais in the accounting divisions.

At high level positions there they might have a foreigner suporvising them, but this would be classified as a manager and not an accountant.

You people are all missing the point, this list is for Burmese workers, and other workers from poor countries when they are talking about 90% of these jobs. The other 10% that are close to professional occupations, you whities couldn't get a job doing them anyways, so there is nothing to worry about.

The title is an illusion. They may not get to sign the paper, but who is doing the work? Not that that changes with the new laws - the "new" laws simply appear to be a better translation. (Although 'Consultant' is now not allowed, if I am not misinformed)

The topic of 'Accountant' per se doesn't mean a whole lot ebcause there are a great many similar examples across the board. There is the literal job that you do, then there is the title and the job description. They almost never meet anywhere in the world. these topics are so broad is to catch everything in the net. (Picking up a paycheck could be considered labor if someone really wanted a conviction, or going to the bank in the case of direct deposit ... work permit or not)

And yes, THESE laws are aimed at the Burmese (who they do deport, when they are caught, unless they work for someone who pays the tea money to keep them on.... a dreadful state if you ask me - the local immigration officers turning a blind eye in order to take a share of the salaries of hundreds/thousands of would-be Thai workers. Not corruption at its worst, but certainly not at its best!) but there are other laws aimed at us "Whiteys"

Protecting the Thai job market is well and good and all, (although, the US has made foreign workers a major advantage - whether illegal border runners or fully legal immigrants - A strong case can be made that shutting down the borders is not economically efficient) but labelling everything as work and selectively enforcing it is just not a pleasant situation for foreigners.

[lobo7055]

About those be-turbanned gentlemen who keep stopping me in the street, telling me what a lucky face I have and promising to provide a run-down on my future prospects. QUESTION: I take it these people are "seers" by profession. Does that mean there is such a thing as a "Seer's Visa". If not, what kind of visa allows these individuals to exercise their profession? I've heard of a "Sear's Catalogue" but is there such a thing as a "Seer's" Visa? And surely there is a sufficiency of Thai seers, so why isn't the "seerage" included on the list of professions restricted to Thais?

[stretch]

Sunbelt...

Many thanks for your responses, which helped to clarify things in that area.

[Blue Whale]

It seems strange to try to restrict what kind of work a foriegner can do in your country with the idea of protecting your peoples' jobs when you look at other countries policies. My wife came to America and they gave her a card that lasted 2 years and said she could work ANY job she wanted. After that they gave her a 10 year card, again with the right to any occupation. The people of America enjoy a wealthy economy and low unemployment, with no petty worries about who does what job. Competition makes strength, Thailand would become stronger in many ways simply by opening up. What kind of karma does a nation reap by restricting talents from being exercised?

well said. you should write a book!

[udon]

THis list excludes virtually everything prof/technical - Thailand has massive shortages in skilled areas it needs to develop. So basically any job that can be done by a Thai - even if done so badly it ruins the economy - has to be done by a Thai. Why then allow English teachers? there are so many Thai English teachers. They can easily teach english? maybe badly but not as bad as many of the jobs listed

Just look at Singapore. It is full of foreigners working in all sort of industries. They bring in expertise that generates wealth that benefits all Singaporeans. Thats why Singapore is rich (despite having no real advantages and being short of space) and other SE Asian countries poor.

Well said Captain!

[Pattayatony]

35. Hawking of goods.

I am in the gemstone business in the States, recently married to a lovely Thai woman on my last trip there. I am moving to BKK next month to stay with her and run my business from there. I have access to and am looking to sell the rarest gemstone on earth to Thai dealers. This gem is only found in the state where I currently live. Am I to be deported for "hawking of goods"? Quite likely a crash course in gemology is coming for the wife!!

Let me guess! Your are living in MN and the gem is Thompsonite?

About 18 months ago there were 6 foreigners arrested in the Chantaburi market for Buying stones because they had intention of re-selling, some of the foreigners embassy got involved but Im not sure of the final outcome. someone else on TV might know.

[navajo]

This was just updated and released Oct 26th 2006 by the Royal Thai Government.

Annex attached to the Royal Decree

Prescribing works relating to occupation and professional in which an alien is prohibited to engage B.E.2522

1. Manual work

2. Work in agriculture, animal husbandry, forestry or fishery excluding specialized work in each particular branch or farm supervision

3. Bricklaying, carpentry or other construction works

4. Wood carving

5. Driving mechanically propelled carried or driving non-mechanically-propelled vehicle, excluding international aircraft piloting

6. Shop attendance

7. Auction

8. Supervising, auditing or giving service in accountancy excluding internal auditing on occasions

9. Cutting or polishing jewelry

10. Haircutting, hairdressing or beauty treatment

11. Cloth weaving by hand

12. Weaving of mate or making products from reeds, rattan, hemp, straw or bamboo pellicle

13. Making of Sa paper by hand

14. Lacquer ware making

15. Making of Thai musical instrument

16. Niello ware making

17. Making of products from gold, silver or gold-copper alloy

18. Bronze ware making

19. Making of Thai dolls

20. Making of mattress or quilt blanket

21. Alms bowls casting

22. Making of silk products by hand

23. Casting of Buddha images

24. Knife making

25. Making of paper of cloth umbrella

26. Shoemaking

27. Hat Making

28. Brokerage or agency excluding brokerage or agency in international trade business

29. Engineering work in civil engineering branch concerning designing and calculation, organization, research, planning, testing, construction supervision or advising excluding specialized work

30. Architectural work concerning designing, drawing of plan, estimating, construction directing or advising

31. Garments making

32. Pottery or ceramic ware making

33. Cigarette making by hand

34. Guide or conducting sightseeing tours

35. Street Vending

36. Type setting of Thai characters by hand

37. Drawing and twisting silk-thread by hand

38. Office or secretarial work

39. Legal or lawsuit services

This was the previous Annex

The following Schedule Annexed to the Royal Decree Stipulating Work in Occupations and Professions Prohibited to Aliens B.E. 2522 (A.D. 1979) closes 39 occupations to foreigners and reserves them for Thais:

1. Labor work.

2. Agriculture, animal husbandry, forestry or fishery, except work requiring specialized knowledge or farm supervision.

3. Bricklaying, carpentry, or other construction work.

4. Wood carving.

5. Driving motor vehicles or vehicles which do not use machinery or mechanical devices, except piloting aircraft internationally.

6. Front shop sale.

7. Auction sale work.

8. Supervising, auditing, or giving service in accountancy, except occasional internal auditing.

9. Cutting or polishing precious or semi-precious stones.

10. Haircutting, hairdressing, or beautification.

11. Cloth weaving by hand.

12. Mat weaving or making utensils from reed, rattan, jute, hay, or bamboo.

13. Making rice paper by hand.

14. Lacquer work.

15. Making Thai musical instruments.

16. Niello work.

17. Goldsmith, silversmith, or gold-and-copper alloy smith work.

18. Stone work.

19. Making Thai dolls.

20. Making mattresses or quilts.

21. Making alms bowls.

22. Making silk products by hand.

23. Making Buddha images.

24. Knife making.

25. Making paper or cloth umbrellas.

26. Making shoes.

27. Making hats.

28. Brokerage or agency except in international trading.

29. Professional civil engineering concerning design and calculation, systemization, analysis, planning, testing, construction supervision, or consulting services, excluding work requiring specialized techniques.

30. Professional architectural work concerning design, drawing-making, cost estimation, or consulting services.

31. Dressmaking.

32. Pottery.

33. Cigarette rolling by hand.

34. Tour guiding or conducting.

35. Hawking of goods.

36. Thai typesetting by hand.

37. Unwinding and twisting silk by hand.

38. Clerical or secretarial work.

39. Providing legal services or engaging in legal work, except in cases of legal arbitration.

Source: Sunbelt Asia Group 2006-10-27

[navajo]

Ah geewiz! Darn it, just when I was thinking about buying a lawn mower so I could make a few extra bucks; whoops, I mean Baht! Ah shucks! U mean I can't even become a motor cycle taxi here or a tuk tuk driver? Now how about you foreign women here, is there anything that prohibits them from selling poontang, or do they need a work permit? I mean isn't that manual labor? O.K. no more $100,000 in aid, I'm writing my congressman today!

[manjara]

I get the point: please employ Thai, don't do it yourself. So I'll use this opportunity to place a job advertisement:

Looking for Thai employee. Requirements:

• English language skills required
  
• Ability to think logical
  

...oh wait. The first requirement is probably not too much of a problem, but the 2nd one might be: there is no Thai equivalent for 'logic'... Never mind. Let's continue.

• Excellent technical IT skills
  
• Cisco certification welcome*
  

* beyond CCNA

Ouch. The last two options will keep this vacancy open for the next 10 years

So, employing a Thai will automatically degrade service levels. My experience is Thai will never ever accept that a farang knows anything better than a Thai. They are not even willing to learn, since it would affect their status level.

Sadly, I'd have to say this is quite likely to be true, although I haven't given up just yet!

I'm working as a consultant on an IT project. I'm supposed to be the expert who they ask questions of, but they never do. If they ask it's usually to get me to resolve some disagreement they have, but usually I will recommend something they're not doing, so then the issue just gets dropped.

Thais will never argue a point, but will just smile, stop talking and go and do whatever they think is right.

I'm trying to hire some people right now and it is proving more difficult than I imagined. The level of knowledge is extremely poor and the expectations absurdly high (relatively) for anyone with a modicum of experience.

All I really want is someone who is willing and able to learn, and has reasonable common sense. Seems like it is too much to ask in Thailand.

[dezeure]

2. Work in agriculture, animal husbandry, forestry or fishery excluding specialized work in each particular branch or farm supervision .

quite a few posters on thai visa are involved in the above

giving advise in these branches is allowed and if you're paid by a foreign country then its no problem...

3. Bricklaying, carpentry or other construction works

many falangs offer building services and do plumbing and carpentry and electrical work themselves on site

5. Driving mechanically propelled carried or driving non-mechanically-propelled vehicle, excluding international aircraft piloting.

boat crew on diving charters.

I have never seen a farang boat driver on a diving trip... its always the thai guy driving the boat. Plus you can drive your own boat / yacht with your own crew but only for your own pleasure... not as a job.

I'm allowed to fly in thailand as a pilot, but I can't do (officially) domestic flights (unless there is a thai pilot on board)

6. Shop attendance.

many falangs work/ own shops in tourist areas

you can own one, but you can't work in one... same thing with restaurants

8. Supervising, auditing or giving service in accountancy excluding internal auditing on occasions.

sunbelt asia and others

30. Architectural work concerning designing, drawing of plan, estimating, construction directing or advising.

falangs associated with construction and development act as foremen and on site engineers on samui and phuket

31. Garments making.

just about every tailor shop in tourist destinations are run and operated by aliens

39. Legal or lawsuit services

sunbelt asia and others

can do the lawsuites but on court its the Thai guy telling the judge...

so how is it possible to circumvent the regulations regarding prohibited trades , or is everybody bending the law here. ?

bending? naaah, just finding loopholes and interpreting it different... :-)

[JR Texas]

I get the point: please employ Thai, don't do it yourself. So I'll use this opportunity to place a job advertisement:

Looking for Thai employee. Requirements:

• English language skills required
  
• Ability to think logical
  

...oh wait. The first requirement is probably not too much of a problem, but the 2nd one might be: there is no Thai equivalent for 'logic'... Never mind. Let's continue.

• Excellent technical IT skills
  
• Cisco certification welcome*
  

* beyond CCNA

Ouch. The last two options will keep this vacancy open for the next 10 years

So, employing a Thai will automatically degrade service levels. My experience is Thai will never ever accept that a farang knows anything better than a Thai. They are not even willing to learn, since it would affect their status level.

Sadly, I'd have to say this is quite likely to be true, although I haven't given up just yet!

I'm working as a consultant on an IT project. I'm supposed to be the expert who they ask questions of, but they never do. If they ask it's usually to get me to resolve some disagreement they have, but usually I will recommend something they're not doing, so then the issue just gets dropped.

Thais will never argue a point, but will just smile, stop talking and go and do whatever they think is right.

I'm trying to hire some people right now and it is proving more difficult than I imagined. The level of knowledge is extremely poor and the expectations absurdly high (relatively) for anyone with a modicum of experience.

All I really want is someone who is willing and able to learn, and has reasonable common sense. Seems like it is too much to ask in Thailand.

JR Texas (51, USA, living in China...on the outside looking in):

Like all countries, Thailand has a ruling elite...the men and women who stand at the top of the corporate-political-military triangle of power. My guess is that they comprise about 1% of the total population and own 99% of all of the disposable wealth in Thailand (this is normal in most countries today, even in the USA). They are scared of change...they like the power their wealth brings. They influence virtually everything. They control the mainstream mass media (radio, TV, newspapers, etc). [stop buying copies of the Bangkok Post and Nation]. Press freedom is lacking. Censorship is rampant. Democracy is an illusion. Corruption at all levels and sectors is the norm. The quality of life is rapdily declining for the majority. But the ruling elite do not want to give up any of their power and wealth. AND THEY ARE TOTALLY AFRAID OF COMPETITION. They know that farangs, in general, are smarter and more creative. They know that they can't compete with us if playing on a level playing field. So

[JR Texas]

I get the point: please employ Thai, don't do it yourself. So I'll use this opportunity to place a job advertisement:

Looking for Thai employee. Requirements:

• English language skills required
  
• Ability to think logical
  

...oh wait. The first requirement is probably not too much of a problem, but the 2nd one might be: there is no Thai equivalent for 'logic'... Never mind. Let's continue.

• Excellent technical IT skills
  
• Cisco certification welcome*
  

* beyond CCNA

Ouch. The last two options will keep this vacancy open for the next 10 years

So, employing a Thai will automatically degrade service levels. My experience is Thai will never ever accept that a farang knows anything better than a Thai. They are not even willing to learn, since it would affect their status level.

Sadly, I'd have to say this is quite likely to be true, although I haven't given up just yet!

I'm working as a consultant on an IT project. I'm supposed to be the expert who they ask questions of, but they never do. If they ask it's usually to get me to resolve some disagreement they have, but usually I will recommend something they're not doing, so then the issue just gets dropped.

Thais will never argue a point, but will just smile, stop talking and go and do whatever they think is right.

I'm trying to hire some people right now and it is proving more difficult than I imagined. The level of knowledge is extremely poor and the expectations absurdly high (relatively) for anyone with a modicum of experience.

All I really want is someone who is willing and able to learn, and has reasonable common sense. Seems like it is too much to ask in Thailand.

JR Texas (51, USA, living in China...on the outside looking in): This is what I actually wanted to say...the system cut me off while I was writing the post.

JR Texas (51, USA, living in China...on the outside looking in):

Like all countries, Thailand has a ruling elite...the men and women who stand at the top of the corporate-political-military triangle of power. My guess is that they comprise about 1% of the total population and own 99% of all of the disposable wealth in Thailand (this is normal in most countries today, even in the USA). They are scared of change...they like the power their wealth brings. They influence virtually everything. They control the mainstream mass media (radio, TV, newspapers, etc). [stop buying copies of the Bangkok Post and Nation]. Press freedom is lacking. Censorship is rampant. Democracy is an illusion. Corruption at all levels and sectors is the norm. The quality of life is rapdily declining for the majority. But the ruling elite do not want to give up any of their power and wealth. AND THEY ARE TOTALLY AFRAID OF COMPETITION. They know that farangs, in general, are smarter and more creative. They know that they can't compete with us if playing on a level playing field. So they rig the game in their favor where only one team plays......the other sits on the sideline, throws money and cheers for the other side hoping to get some perks. This, I think, is the reason behind the restrictions. Of course, one only has to look at the thriving economies of Singapore and Hong Kong to see what is possible when such job restrictions are lifted. But tell any of this to a Thai and they will look at you as if you are crazy and refuse to listen.

Strange things are happening. Now, a farang married to a Thai woman is required to have a monthly income of 40K (correct?). That is about 36K more than most Thais live off of per month in the hinterlands (all areas outside of the major cities and resort towns). A farang can no longer simply put 400K in the bank. That means they are now forced to work if they have no pension or it if is not high enough to reach the visa requirement (the average pension for a retired American is just over US$1000 per month). And the government has embraced a widespread set of restrictions on occupations farangs can engage in to the extent that it is looking like working is no longer an option. They are eliminating options that fall under the category of solutions. The country is in decline. These TOXIN influenced policies will accelerate the decline. They will no doubt lead to an increase in social unrest among the larger public, especially among a growing number of young who will soon find out that the economic paradise promised them is little more than an illusion. It is very likely that the power structure will start to unravel and crime will increase. The ruling elite are either ignorant of this or simply do not care. A major problem is that the education system in Thailand is poor at best. I am familiar with it, especially higher education. Thais are not taught how to think critically using reason. The ruling elite love this because it makes it easy to manipulate the majority using emotion and rhetoric (same situation as in the USA). During his time in power, TOXIN manipulated the majority skillfully. Things do not look good: Thailand ranks 79 (just above Sri Lanka) in terms of quality of life; it ranks 79 (jut above Lebanon) in terms of economic freedom; it ranks 66 (just above Madagascar) in terms of press freedom; it ranks 49 (just behind Cuba) in terms of corruption; and it ranks 57 (tied with Senegal and Serbia-Mongtenegro) in terms of democracy. All of the aformentioned data were taken from respected sources--global indexes.

Having said that, I want to say "HAPPY LOI KRATONG." May the negative and destructive influence of TOXIN float down the river of pain and sorrow, never to return. And may reason and sanity return to the Kingdom.

BEST WISHES

JR

[blam]

manjara

It's not just the Thais though, you must admit. I am working on a small IT project here, the pseudo know it all dumbs#t falangs can be even more of a problem. Nothing more to comment on that one.

JR Texas

You're right. I have never met a Thai anywhere in this country that could even dream of passing the CCNA much less the CCNEs. That's part of the reason why the Internet in Phuket is SO STINKING BAD! Anything IT related in Thailand is a very bad joke. When I went to Loxinfo Chiang Mai (calmly, jai yen yen) to discuss network architecture and DSL nodal placement, (one side of Samlarn Rd. had service, the other didn't) the head admin was in the basement (probably fiddling with the servers) but had "MCP for Dummies' open to page 8 on his desk. I just told the incredibly beautiful & sexy secretary that I had found out exactly what I needed to know, and left. These people get their jobs by graduating from the right schools then getting a nice letter from their level 10 uncle, or by producing a phone call from an investor in the company. Period. Frustrating? Frustrating as h<ll.

I'm just really surprised that some enterprising Thai hasn't purchased a T1/3 and offered a bootleg broadband wireless system to local residents. The illegal profits could be enormous! Thai life-concept at its best... Sri Tonanchai anyone?

[JR Texas]

manjara

It's not just the Thais though, you must admit. I am working on a small IT project here, the pseudo know it all dumbs#t falangs can be even more of a problem. Nothing more to comment on that one.

JR Texas (51, USA): Absolutely correct Blam......that is why I said same as in the USA. But, in many universities in the USA students are taught to use reason to understand and address challenges. Unfortunately, America's system of higher education is in rapid decline. But it is still way ahead of Thailand. For the record, and it is just my opinion, most universities (and students) in China and India are far better than those in Thailand.....also, Singapore, Japan, Korea, and even Malaysia. When you thwart competition via protectionists visa rules and regulations, you invite social decline. You end up with idiots doing work for idiots.........shoddy products and services come out the other end. Of course you could ask for help from a consultant, but now even consultants are banned from working in the Kingdom. Amazing...........isn't it? LOS will soon be the LOF (land of frowns). If only a good and decent human being could take control...........maybe it is possible....maybe things will get better........maybe....maybe monkeys will fly out of my ass.

Best wishes,

JR

JR Texas

You're right. I have never met a Thai anywhere in this country that could even dream of passing the CCNA much less the CCNEs. That's part of the reason why the Internet in Phuket is SO STINKING BAD! Anything IT related in Thailand is a very bad joke. When I went to Loxinfo Chiang Mai (calmly, jai yen yen) to discuss network architecture and DSL nodal placement, (one side of Samlarn Rd. had service, the other didn't) the head admin was in the basement (probably fiddling with the servers) but had "MCP for Dummies' open to page 8 on his desk. I just told the incredibly beautiful & sexy secretary that I had found out exactly what I needed to know, and left. These people get their jobs by graduating from the right schools then getting a nice letter from their level 10 uncle, or by producing a phone call from an investor in the company. Period. Frustrating? Frustrating as h<ll.

I'm just really surprised that some enterprising Thai hasn't purchased a T1/3 and offered a bootleg broadband wireless system to local residents. The illegal profits could be enormous! Thai life-concept at its best... Sri Tonanchai anyone?

[soic]

so, having just decided to own a bar in LOS what can I do except sit at the bar and tell my staff to do all the work? Maybe I was going to do that anyway.

You can manage the bar. You can even be a bartender if you are making a number of exotic drinks and transferring knowledge. ( Your wp must state you will be a bartender) The same as a cook or chef in a restaurant.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Thanks for that - will do so and also show staff how to boil an egg etc. etc. can I also do the admin bits in the back office? Management's one thing but my thai bride, family and staff wont be able to do e-mails, room bookings and so forth, well at least not straight away - so I'm teaching them Yes?

You are simply the Director or MD. This is not a problem for you to manage the business.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

I'm not an expert in Thai law or any country's law for that matter. If I'm not mistaken, as I read those regulations, it simply says that Farangs cannot do the work as a vocation. I believe that the avenues are still there for company holders. We can manage, direct or advise and still profit. We only have to have work permits that give us the legal ability to do that work. I don't see any reason to panic. We may have to be creative, if I can't be an owner, I'll be a director, or a manager, or and advisor, or an investor, or a stock holder. Where there's a will there's a way I always say. My motto is don't tell me I can't... because I'll find a way that I can... I've never found a wall that can't be passed. Over, under, around or through... Why should we throw up our hands and start wailing woe is me? Be creative, dot the i's and cross the t's and just do it...