When the surliness begins — what to do?

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed as well as a reply.

[aronp1]

Money is not a motivator. I realize people automatically think that, but it is not true. Study Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Also do you consider yourself a theory X type of manager or theory Y? I realize it may be just a maid, but they are still an employee. So what is being done that makes them unhappy with their job?

[ableguy]

I have lived in Thailand more than 10 years and visited here since 1967, I have never encountered an irritable or lazy Thai; they are always smiling and pleasant with the utmost courtesy and efficiency.

Tor lair.

[gemguy]

Sounds like that Omni present sense of entitlement is rearing its ugly head concerning the young girls while the older maids are probably developing a degree of jealousy because you look like you are wealthy and so much more fortunate in life.

Also if you are single and happen to be bringing lots of Girlfriends back home then that would have an effect on them...if that is the case.

Meantime: To handle the maids attitude what I would do is do what one guy I know claims he did when the house keeper at his apartment would not properly clean the kitchen area to his satisfaction after telling the house keeper multiple times he wanted the kitchen floor to be cleaned more thoroughly and everything in the kitchen to be kept more tidy.

But she did not improve her work... so..... outside his apartment complex there was a lady with a small food cart selling some food on most days and he was friendly with her and noted that the woman had a young daughter around 12 years old that would help the mother sometimes.

So he told the mother he had about 30 to 40 minutes of work for the daughter cleaning the kitchen for 300 baht ..if she wanted the money.

He said the mother agreed on behalf of the daughter while he told the daughter he wanted her to clean the floor really well for the money.

He had the child do the work while the regular maid was there and he told the maid you do not clean the floor correctly so I have to bring in a child to do your work correctly.

Next time and after that the maid did the floor correctly.... as requested.

I suggest you do the same and tell the current maid the new woman could be your replacement.

As for the young girls at the reception with the attitude I would go to the management and tell them the reception girls have an attitude that sucks and that reflects on the management.

May help a little.

Cheers

Edited March 16, 2016 by gemguy

[ableguy]

Who needs a maid? You and your wife do you own work! Once a week or month get help with specific tasks - in my case cleaning the 106 square metre condo floor. Then work with them. Pay them generously - about 500 baht minimum. Thas are a mixture of Proud and Humble and Not Stupid- Too many foreigners here, especially Americans, Arabs and Chinese have a colonial attitude to the Thais so for the issan people, famous for their sensitivity being used by foreigners is a double blow given the racism they experience from cradle to grave from the Chinese Thai estanbment who own them. But I ask again? Why have a maid?

Dumb question , no more to be said.

[Lowdown]

I am a white female, European and was once asked, actually insistently asked, to become the hostess in a very nice new Thai Hotel to take care of their international clients. The owner explained to me that Thai people are initially friendly. But 'as soon as they have some money, they become lazy and don't want to work anymore.' I believe, that answers your initial question. Once they earned the money they needed or a little surplus even, they don't want to work anymore and become surly. They feel, now they are too good for the work they do until the money runs out and the circle starts anew. I see this myself in my little life in Hua Hin, as soon as they have a 1000 Baht more then they need, the take a trip for a week and disappear from work. Planing for long term does not seem part of the mentality from my observations.

[jerome2]

i think they are just bored

may be pay her transport or time in bus will make it beter

[laislica]

[TeaMonkey]

I was speaking with the owner of a condo in Chiang Mai and complemented that the staff were good. He said its difficult to get reliable staff and explained that he was of Chinese heritage and when he employs anyone he checks their family background and only employs them if they are also of Chinese heritage.

[gemguy]

Well folks.

This subject matter is wide spread and all over Thailand.

When more or less forced to work the people will do their job well enough but..... to their thinking...... while that about describes their attitude all too often...to their thinking...... while going the extra mile or trying to be a really good employee is not on most of their minds.

If it their own business or they realize they can make a lot of money then you will see a different attitude most of the time.

The complaints about their work performance is common while the Thais themselves also complain about these work and labor related matters all the time and they are also at a lose as to what can be done about it.

I think the General's idea of operating attitude adjust camps may be a worthy idea.

Cheers

[KarenBravo]

Money is not a motivator. I realize people automatically think that, but it is not true. Study Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Also do you consider yourself a theory X type of manager or theory Y? I realize it may be just a maid, but they are still an employee. So what is being done that makes them unhappy with their job?

You might be right about money not being a motivator, but I am not really an employer. I have found this sudden change in most of the contractors I hire.

Be it mechanics (see my previous post), plumbers, builders, electricians, or, the guy who used to fix my computer.

I have always paid them well and usually given a tip on completion of the task, so, that's why the money as motivator doesn't ring true. But, there are just too many incidences of this "change" to put the blame on management style, especially when I wasn't a manager, but, a customer.

[nontabury]

I am a white female, European and was once asked, actually insistently asked, to become the hostess in a very nice new Thai Hotel to take care of their international clients. The owner explained to me that Thai people are initially friendly. But 'as soon as they have some money, they become lazy and don't want to work anymore.' I believe, that answers your initial question. Once they earned the money they needed or a little surplus even, they don't want to work anymore and become surly. They feel, now they are too good for the work they do until the money runs out and the circle starts anew. I see this myself in my little life in Hua Hin, as soon as they have a 1000 Baht more then they need, the take a trip for a week and disappear from work. Planing for long term does not seem part of the mentality from my observations.

You've hit the nail on the head. They only live for the moment, and those who pay them over the odds are making the problem bigger for themselves,by virtue of the fact the Thai employee is able to build up a small pile of money even quicker,then thinks why do I need to work. Plus they have no respect for those farangs who they consider throw their money around.

[Bill Miller]

I am a white female, European and was once asked, actually insistently asked, to become the hostess in a very nice new Thai Hotel to take care of their international clients. The owner explained to me that Thai people are initially friendly. But 'as soon as they have some money, they become lazy and don't want to work anymore.' I believe, that answers your initial question. Once they earned the money they needed or a little surplus even, they don't want to work anymore and become surly. They feel, now they are too good for the work they do until the money runs out and the circle starts anew. I see this myself in my little life in Hua Hin, as soon as they have a 1000 Baht more then they need, the take a trip for a week and disappear from work. Planing for long term does not seem part of the mentality from my observations.

My girlfriend is upper middle management at a large department store. She was explaining this exact situation to me regarding her staff, particularly the younger women.... "They get few paychecks, then only want talk to some man... no want to work more."

The funny thing is that some of the same dynamic is at work in our relationship. I have been fairly generous in the cash and jewelry department, advocating for care for a couple of medical probs, helping family, etc., but have lately been pretty much forbidden anything in the intimacy/affection department.

I love the woman, but love myself, too. I deserve better, and after a few months about ready to seek somebody new.

Is this more or less "normal" with Thai ladies, or would I be better advised to consider moving to Laos, or maybe just to Isan?

I am old enough that a little gratitude and affection go a long way with me.

[Lowdown]

I am a white female, European and was once asked, actually insistently asked, to become the hostess in a very nice new Thai Hotel to take care of their international clients. The owner explained to me that Thai people are initially friendly. But 'as soon as they have some money, they become lazy and don't want to work anymore.' I believe, that answers your initial question. Once they earned the money they needed or a little surplus even, they don't want to work anymore and become surly. They feel, now they are too good for the work they do until the money runs out and the circle starts anew. I see this myself in my little life in Hua Hin, as soon as they have a 1000 Baht more then they need, the take a trip for a week and disappear from work. Planing for long term does not seem part of the mentality from my observations.

My girlfriend is upper middle management at a large department store. She was explaining this exact situation to me regarding her staff, particularly the younger women.... "They get few paychecks, then only want talk to some man... no want to work more."

The funny thing is that some of the same dynamic is at work in our relationship. I have been fairly generous in the cash and jewelry department, advocating for care for a couple of medical probs, helping family, etc., but have lately been pretty much forbidden anything in the intimacy/affection department.

I love the woman, but love myself, too. I deserve better, and after a few months about ready to seek somebody new.

Is this more or less "normal" with Thai ladies, or would I be better advised to consider moving to Laos, or maybe just to Isan?

I am old enough that a little gratitude and affection go a long way with me.

In my experience and from what I can see in my own Expat circle of friends, the surliness starts early and never goes away, increasingly jealousy and possessiveness take over and there is this feeling of emptiness in their relationships. I have yet to see a constructive, productive, for the long term loving relationship in which respect and understanding have a place. We are mainly seen as a source of income and there we go into that vicious cycle again as discussed above. I wish I could tell you where you find a nice caring women with a sense of integrity, a sense for gratitude and no sense of entitlement and with enough brains to know when she has found a 'home'. But maybe a 'home' is not the objective, since they have a home with their families?

[laislica]

I am a white female, European and was once asked, actually insistently asked, to become the hostess in a very nice new Thai Hotel to take care of their international clients. The owner explained to me that Thai people are initially friendly. But 'as soon as they have some money, they become lazy and don't want to work anymore.' I believe, that answers your initial question. Once they earned the money they needed or a little surplus even, they don't want to work anymore and become surly. They feel, now they are too good for the work they do until the money runs out and the circle starts anew. I see this myself in my little life in Hua Hin, as soon as they have a 1000 Baht more then they need, the take a trip for a week and disappear from work. Planing for long term does not seem part of the mentality from my observations.

My girlfriend is upper middle management at a large department store. She was explaining this exact situation to me regarding her staff, particularly the younger women.... "They get few paychecks, then only want talk to some man... no want to work more."

The funny thing is that some of the same dynamic is at work in our relationship. I have been fairly generous in the cash and jewelry department, advocating for care for a couple of medical probs, helping family, etc., but have lately been pretty much forbidden anything in the intimacy/affection department.

I love the woman, but love myself, too. I deserve better, and after a few months about ready to seek somebody new.

Is this more or less "normal" with Thai ladies, or would I be better advised to consider moving to Laos, or maybe just to Isan?

I am old enough that a little gratitude and affection go a long way with me.

In my experience and from what I can see in my own Expat circle of friends, the surliness starts early and never goes away, increasingly jealousy and possessiveness take over and there is this feeling of emptiness in their relationships. I have yet to see a constructive, productive, for the long term loving relationship in which respect and understanding have a place. We are mainly seen as a source of income and there we go into that vicious cycle again as discussed above. I wish I could tell you where you find a nice caring women with a sense of integrity, a sense for gratitude and no sense of entitlement and with enough brains to know when she has found a 'home'. But maybe a 'home' is not the objective, since they have a home with their families?

Never the less, it is possible - I found one and she found one.

Overcoming the confrontation not allowed, that deceit and lies are preferable to hurting someones feelings; is what must be done IMO.

I was lucky that things happened at the start of my relationship as I posted before and I was forced to tackle that head on and I never looked back.

Be lucky, be honest, be caring, try to understand, give space, take space, do only the things that you would like a partner to do.

Don't over think situations.

Most of all, stay relaxed.

Good luck

[Skeptic7]

I've noticed this phenonenon more recently too. I'm not an employer, but especially with hotel and bar & restaurant staff. Some whom I have known for up to a decade! AND the girls too. Early 90's thru mid-2000's this crap was nearly nonexitent, but the past 10 years have been a disaster. "Baditude" is sadly the rule now as Thailand has become the epitome of a Tourist Trap...a place where they couldn't give a shit less if they EVER see your face again. Sad, but true...

[nontabury]

I am a white female, European and was once asked, actually insistently asked, to become the hostess in a very nice new Thai Hotel to take care of their international clients. The owner explained to me that Thai people are initially friendly. But 'as soon as they have some money, they become lazy and don't want to work anymore.' I believe, that answers your initial question. Once they earned the money they needed or a little surplus even, they don't want to work anymore and become surly. They feel, now they are too good for the work they do until the money runs out and the circle starts anew. I see this myself in my little life in Hua Hin, as soon as they have a 1000 Baht more then they need, the take a trip for a week and disappear from work. Planing for long term does not seem part of the mentality from my observations.

My girlfriend is upper middle management at a large department store. She was explaining this exact situation to me regarding her staff, particularly the younger women.... "They get few paychecks, then only want talk to some man... no want to work more."

The funny thing is that some of the same dynamic is at work in our relationship. I have been fairly generous in the cash and jewelry department, advocating for care for a couple of medical probs, helping family, etc., but have lately been pretty much forbidden anything in the intimacy/affection department.

I love the woman, but love myself, too. I deserve better, and after a few months about ready to seek somebody new.

Is this more or less "normal" with Thai ladies, or would I be better advised to consider moving to Laos, or maybe just to Isan?

I am old enough that a little gratitude and affection go a long way with me.

In my experience and from what I can see in my own Expat circle of friends, the surliness starts early and never goes away, increasingly jealousy and possessiveness take over and there is this feeling of emptiness in their relationships. I have yet to see a constructive, productive, for the long term loving relationship in which respect and understanding have a place. We are mainly seen as a source of income and there we go into that vicious cycle again as discussed above. I wish I could tell you where you find a nice caring women with a sense of integrity, a sense for gratitude and no sense of entitlement and with enough brains to know when she has found a 'home'. But maybe a 'home' is not the objective, since they have a home with their families?

Do not judge all Thais by the action of a few,or even by a majority,as in all walks of life there are exceptions.

[cat handler]

It happens in EVERY country, at first employees are conscientious, I was in once but after about 6 months you think "Fukkitt" and you slack off. The trick is to have a bonus system, the ones who do their job right get an end of year bonus the ones that don't get FA.

[Apostate]

I would think any surliness is due to the lack of a raise - especially when they know the employer can easily afford it.

[WorkingTourist]

There is a saying, “if everyone around you is a jerk, you’re the jerk”.

While I don’t think OP is a jerk, that the problem extends to waitresses and even receptionists does indicate that there could be something in his behavior that turns off the Thais.

For service staff, do you tip them accordingly?

For receptionists, do you show your appreciation of their work? A little smalltalk goes a long way, but token gifts are certainly not uncommon, this would generally be food and fruits. Furthermore, a tip is not out of place when they do something extra for you. You should also tip the security staff when they carry items to your unit etc.

For maids, you write that you employ “middle-aged women […] where else can they find an easy job […] with a polite boss, and make 100 baht/hour”. First of all, 100 baht/hour is not a good salary, do you tip them in addition to the salary and/or give them bonuses? Secondly, elders in Thai society expect to be treated with respect, your statement reads like they should be grateful to you for giving them a low-wage job, and they might pick up on that attitude. As someone else suggested, occasionally take part in the cleaning to show that it is not beneath you, but also, consider paying them more.

Being a cleaning lady can often be a lousy job with a lousy pay, depends largely on the boss.

[simon43]

I've had a problem with surly Thai staff over the years.

I used to own a tourist bar on Sukhumvit Road in BKK, (not a gogo bar ).

The female staff looked miserable all the time. I asked them to smile because it would encourage the guests to tip them.

They smiled for a few seconds and then back to glum

The next day when I cam to work, the same miserable faces..

"You have 2 choices" I said. You either all start smiling right now, or you all <deleted> off right now".

The entire staff thought about this generous offer and all f**ked off....

The second and most recent occasion was with new staff at my hotel. I got some complaints from guests that they never smiled. I encouraged (not ordered) them to smile.

They resigned after 5 minutes....

Nowadays, I have zero time for moody, miserable Thais, (or any other nationality for that matter).

Life is too short to waste my time with misery guts like that

[nontabury]

Wrong post

Edited March 19, 2016 by nontabury