Trouble in paradise: Thailand and the expatriate experience

[phoenixdoglover]

The article is superficial and sophomoric journalism.

What factors could be contributing to recent expat issues in Thailand?

- fallout from ongoing global economic stresses; expats in Thailand with less income or savings due to losses of wealth and cutbacks in their home countries.

- a moribund domestic economy in Thailand; revenue and cost challenges for the government; less resources available for destitute people, whether citizens or expat residents.

- ongoing inability of Thai governments to adequately address alcoholism, traffic safety and the sex trade; significant social issues affecting everyone.

- an authoritarian government criticized for poor performance; focusing on the perceived threats of foreigners, deflecting attention from other problems.

Regarding cultural differences, I think not. There is a strong case for the narrowing of cultural differences over the past 10 to 20 years, especially in urban areas. However, focus on expats as a "problem" could be due to a backlash against the dilution of Thai culture and the narrowing of differences.

[JLCrab]

Once again, it is such fun to come on to ThaiVisa and read the comments of persons who know more about Thailand and what the Thais should do than the Thais do -- like a bunch of Dutch Uncles.

Edited March 21, 2016 by JLCrab

[spidermike007]

Very interesting link. Reliable or pt? Don't know!

http://www.burning-bison.com/expats.htm

It looks like someone spent alot of hours on that study. And it may be the closest any of us ever get, when it comes to having reasonably accurate information about the actual population of the ex-pat community in Thailand. Kudos to the author of the report.

[thesetat2013]

It would be nice if Thailand had a Western neighbourhood somewhere, something like Chinatown.

They do.. Pattaya

[thesetat2013]

What a load of racist generalization. Their are a few who drink and a couple divorced and even some that lost all of their money by their Thai family or lover or wife. But this writer is out to make that the majority of foreigners living in Thailand cause more problems than they help. Personally, the drunks I see are tourists and local Thais. The violence is mostly caused by Thais thinking foreigners are stupid and gullible. When they find out we are not the Thai resorts to violence and we protect ourselves. The few scammers and hackers shouldn't be listed as expats. Most are not. Most of the people this writer talks about are the tourists and the expats in Bkk or Pattaya. Those of us who live outside those cities may go for a couple of drinks. But drunks! I think not.

[JAG]

Thailand is a basket case, anyone who finds this place their dream destination and plan to spend the rest of their lives here needs serious help..I bitterly regret spending so much of my life here and like many I am constantly calculating my options but at my age life itself is against me.

Luckily I never burnt my bridges and all my assets are still in Europe, assets I had here I have liquidated over the past 18 months and transferred all back to Europe.

Unlike many I came here with work, I never got into the bar and prostitute scene and never married a bar girl… I am not clouded by the rose tints a great many seam to experience and totally know what this place and its people are all about; its 3^rd world and will never change

If you like it enjoy; but if you could experience what I have over almost 5 decades you would be crying in you Sigha

Yet you're still here. With nothing to keep you, as you say, you could have left at any time in the last 5 decades, yes?

Now I don't subscribe to the "If you don't like it go home" school, but why have you stayed if you find it so awful?

[useronthenet]

I sense foreigners are frustrated by the fact Thailand offers essentially nothing to them in terms of status or rights, and yet in their home countries, Thai expats are given full rights, and indeed everything else, except the kitchen sink. The laws have always been in place, just wondering what the fuss is all about ?

[Benmart]

He said that many farangs expect the same cultural standards here in Thailand as they have within their home countries.

Like a properly functioning police force, fair and impartial Judiciary, and an effective democratically elected government - who aren't in their positions for the sole purpose of amassing grotesque levels of personal wealth? Yep, guilty as charged...

Why are you here? I am sure you already have the above where you come from...so go to your Nirvana...

The much overused, "Why are you". The much overused, "...so go...".

Often used as a shortcut in lieu of logical and substantial debate.

[Thian]

It would be nice if Thailand had a Western neighbourhood somewhere, something like Chinatown.

I wouldn't want to live there.

I am quite happy living in rural Thailand thank you very much and I can put up or get around most inconveniences.

Well to each his own but i can't live upcountry, not even in a city there.

Also i don't know if i would like to live in farangtown in BKK but i sure would go there for shopping/dining or just meeting people.

There's a Chinatown in every big European city and i have never heard people complaining about them, they all like to shop there occasionally.

For Bangkok it would be great so the Thai can see/learn how things are done by Westerners. They could also practise their english skills there which is hardly needed.

Also i guess that many multinational company's would like to have their office close to it, now they like Singapore as their base.

The Japanese also have their own area's in BKK like Emquartier and spread around Siam/Sala Daeng. I like to go there as well and so do the hi-so Thai.

Arab's are around soi 5 Nana but the farang only stay at Kao Sarn road and than only the backpackers who want everything as cheap as chips.

An area called "farangtown" in BKK would be good for the city and for whole Thailand i guess.

[Bobotie]

It would be nice if Thailand had a Western neighbourhood somewhere, something like Chinatown.

I wouldn't want to live there.

I am quite happy living in rural Thailand thank you very much and I can put up or get around most inconveniences.

Well to each his own but i can't live upcountry, not even in a city there.

Also i don't know if i would like to live in farangtown in BKK but i sure would go there for shopping/dining or just meeting people.

There's a Chinatown in every big European city and i have never heard people complaining about them, they all like to shop there occasionally.

For Bangkok it would be great so the Thai can see/learn how things are done by Westerners. They could also practise their english skills there which is hardly needed.

Also i guess that many multinational company's would like to have their office close to it, now they like Singapore as their base.

The Japanese also have their own area's in BKK like Emquartier and spread around Siam/Sala Daeng. I like to go there as well and so do the hi-so Thai.

Arab's are around soi 5 Nana but the farang only stay at Kao Sarn road and than only the backpackers who want everything as cheap as chips.

An area called "farangtown" in BKK would be good for the city and for whole Thailand i guess.

An area called "middle aged, fat self rightious white man town" ?

[moe666]

He said that many farangs expect the same cultural standards here in Thailand as they have within their home countries.

Like a properly functioning police force, fair and impartial Judiciary, and an effective democratically elected government - who aren't in their positions for the sole purpose of amassing grotesque levels of personal wealth? Yep, guilty as charged...

Ihave to assume you knew the condition of Thailand before staying here, many of us are here just because it isn't like home.

[gandalf12]

I have family and a large number friends whom I'd like to be able to drive, ride or catch a bus without dying or being permanently maimed due to ineffective policing and lack of government will - is that really too much to ask?

Yep, it is too much to ask.

Basically you are asking the whole nation to change their corrupted culture overnight.

This will take 50 years starting from now only if new generations change their mentality, and they're not in a hurry.

The West is also full of corruption the difference is that here it is in your face and in the West it is carefully concealed

[English 1]

People like me who have lived here for 12 year in Jomtien 1, Chaiyaphum 5 and Bangkok 6 usually realise that it is not Nirvana or Paradise.

I long ago realised that although I have few good Thai friends in general I cannot respect the Thai.

The big problem is that they are taught from childhood that THAILAND is #1 in the World and they believe it.

I have been to 90 countries and 303 cities since I was 15, but Thai still think I know nothing!! That's the frustration living here.

Then the Smiles which are often fake.

Thai are also a very Violent people and the veneer is very thin.

Then their chronic Impatience in a shop, in an Elevator or on the road.....will not wait one second!

Where I live everything is easily reached 711, Pharmacy, Foodland, Library and the Gym...a big plus point.

But I have to negotiate the Sex Touts on the corner of Surawong and Patpong 1 and they can be aggressive....guess they are tanked up with Red Bull and Pills!

As someone said to me years ago They never get older than 12 years of age and have no sense.

Edited March 21, 2016 by English 1

[stickylies]

my 2 cents: too many farang are trapped here. they come utterly unexperienced, think they can handle all things thai in their superiority-illusion, they get involved in things like girlfriends, wives, houses, businesses, etc. only to find out that none of the standards they were used to apply here. i came here in my 30s (still truly handsome, vital, lucid and not yet brain dead), lived here for 6 ongoing years (legally so spare me the visa crap), learned the language, never had thai wife or gf, had loads of time and financial freedom to prospect on various levels and my conclusion was (and still is): there is no longterm future for me here. i enjoy being here, like a tourist, without responsibilities and able to leave in 24H but any further engagement is a total waste or simply not worth the investment (ie. discomfort) of being subjected to their rules/laws (or lack of respecting the existing laws). the ones staying here with families have no choice so they accept (not understanding thai culture and most of the language, not being understood culturally and language-wise, not addapting to the customs which are totally different than western standards). I see a lot of lost souls here trying to make the best out of it... but failing. i feel no bitternes towards thailand and its people (i do pi_ss on the establishment/feudalism). i didn't come here to build up a life or carreer or retire. i just got hammocked-up here just like i got hammocked-up in other parts of the world before. last year i left as my thai "adventure" had reached its peak and i didn't wanna see it spoiled by misfortune or frustration.

[gandalf12]

People like me who have lived here for 12 year in Jomtien 1, Chaiyaphum 5 and Bangkok 6 usually realise that it is not Nirvana or Paradise.

I long ago realised that although I have few good Thai friends in general I cannot respect the Thai.

The big problem is that they are taught from childhood that THAILAND is #1 in the World and they believe it.

I have been to 90 countries and 303 cities since I was 15, but Thai still think I know nothing!! That's the frustration living here.

Then the Smiles which are often fake.

Thai are also a very Violent people and the veneer is very thin.

Then their chronic Impatience in a shop, in an Elevator or on the road.....will not wait one second!

Where I live everything is easily reached 711, Pharmacy, Foodland, Library and the Gym...a big plus point.

But I have to negotiate the Sex Touts on the corner of Surawong and Patpong 1 and they can be aggressive....guess they are tanked up with Red Bull and Pills!

As someone said to me years ago They never get older than 12 years of age and have no sense.

"They never get older than 12 years of age and have no sense" I disagree with. I would put it at 6 years of age at best.

[HasipHasip5]

What i like about Pattaya is the foreign restaurants (even Indian, Lebanese or whatever) and that they speak better english than Bangkokians.

Yup, we have some in Bangkok. In Sunrise Tacos, staff speaks perfect English, even some Mexican I believe.

They are from the Philippinnes.

Do they speak American too?

[wombat1943]

Thailand is a basket case, anyone who finds this place their dream destination and plan to spend the rest of their lives here needs serious help..I bitterly regret spending so much of my life here and like many I am constantly calculating my options but at my age life itself is against me.

Luckily I never burnt my bridges and all my assets are still in Europe, assets I had here I have liquidated over the past 18 months and transferred all back to Europe.

Unlike many I came here with work, I never got into the bar and prostitute scene and never married a bar girl… I am not clouded by the rose tints a great many seam to experience and totally know what this place and its people are all about; its 3^rd world and will never change

If you like it enjoy; but if you could experience what I have over almost 5 decades you would be crying in you Sigha

Interesting to read your view, in 5 decades you must have seen a lot.

But I guess that people (including ourselves) change, and countries change. I wonder whether there is any country at all where, after 40-50 years, you can look back and say that you have no regrets.

Arithai - yes, countries change. 1961- 1964 I lived in Rhodesia - now "Zimbabwe". Paradise. Now they do not have their own currency - destroyed by the financially illiterate "Finance Minister" Gideon Gomo - trillion dollar (1,000,000,000,000 notes) - they use the SA rand and the US $. And the Chinese Yuan has just become legal currency - China will own "Zimbabwe" in the near future. And Thailand - - - - ? ?

I shan't be around to see it. Good luck Thailand, and all who live here.

[stickylies]

I have been to 90 countries and 303 cities since I was 15, but Thai still think I know nothing!! That's the frustration living here.

hehe. classic. 90 other countries mean nothing to someone who hasn't been further than some border market...

brazil, brussels, same same. austria, australia, same same.

[user82374298374]

It would be nice if Thailand had a Western neighbourhood somewhere, something like Chinatown.

"Farangtown".

[gandalf12]

I have been to 90 countries and 303 cities since I was 15, but Thai still think I know nothing!! That's the frustration living here.

hehe. classic. 90 other countries mean nothing to someone who hasn't been further than some border market...

brazil, brussels, same same. austria, australia, same same.

You are not the only one who gets that. I find it amusing when I have told people who come to do a job at the house and then ignore what I told them only later to have to re-do it the way I said. The wife is just as bad she thinks the guys know what to do and wont accept that I have a lot more experience than they do and know their plan is wrong.

Edited March 21, 2016 by gandalf12

[glenmohr]

He said that many farangs expect the same cultural standards here in Thailand as they have within their home countries.

Like a properly functioning police force, fair and impartial Judiciary, and an effective democratically elected government - who aren't in their positions for the sole purpose of amassing grotesque levels of personal wealth? Yep, guilty as charged...

Why are you here? I am sure you already have the above where you come from...so go to your Nirvana...

@Trogers, I believe James'points are valid and reasonable. Remember also that in most of our countries of origin we are allowed to criticise the leaders and this acts as somethign of a check on questionable leadership, it does come as a surprise howeverr to find that local Thais will be locked up until their attitude is addressed properly if they comment on their current leaders.

A lot of us support individual Thais or whole communities of Thais, the food is agreeable, why should we go home just because you do not agree with the opinion of others??

[Oziex1]

ThaiVisa could have a slogan: No matter what it is about Thailand, read here why it should be something else.

It doesn't need to be something else and it can only ever be Thailand.

The feudalism and criminality of the corrupt can go and what will be left will be something much better for all citizens, expats and tourists.

[stickylies]

I have been to 90 countries and 303 cities since I was 15, but Thai still think I know nothing!! That's the frustration living here.

hehe. classic. 90 other countries mean nothing to someone who hasn't been further than some border market...

brazil, brussels, same same. austria, australia, same same.

You are not the only one who gets that. I find it amusing when I have told people who come to do a job at the house and then ignore what I told them only later to have to re-do it the way I said. The wife is just as bad she thinks the guys know what to do and wont accept that I have a lot more experience than they do and know their plan is wrong.

It's called FACE. a thai who has been abroad knows EVERYTHING about all abroadnesses in the world. he or she can say what he wants, the others will never question or critisize his words. i have heard the most absurd things about my country, 555

here's a nice example i experienced: local 'handy-man' (guy who does all kinds of jobs in the mooban) came to my rental house installing water filter. he placed the cartridges in the filter still with the sealing (foil) around them, althought each cartridge clearly stated in english the foil had to be taken off obviously. makes u wonder how many households the guy has installed it that way making the filters worthless and actually non-functional. still, he is considered an "authority" around here (paint jobs, electricity jobs, filter jobs, plumbing jobs, etc). i told the landlord i was going to tell him (friendly!) so he would not make the same mistake but she said that would make him lose face so i never bothered.

[BuckBee]

my 2 cents: too many farang are trapped here. they come utterly unexperienced, think they can handle all things thai in their superiority-illusion, they get involved in things like girlfriends, wives, houses, businesses, etc. only to find out that none of the standards they were used to apply here. i came here in my 30s (still truly handsome, vital, lucid and not yet brain dead), lived here for 6 ongoing years (legally so spare me the visa crap), learned the language, never had thai wife or gf, had loads of time and financial freedom to prospect on various levels and my conclusion was (and still is): there is no longterm future for me here. i enjoy being here, like a tourist, without responsibilities and able to leave in 24H but any further engagement is a total waste or simply not worth the investment (ie. discomfort) of being subjected to their rules/laws (or lack of respecting the existing laws). the ones staying here with families have no choice so they accept (not understanding thai culture and most of the language, not being understood culturally and language-wise, not addapting to the customs which are totally different than western standards). I see a lot of lost souls here trying to make the best out of it... but failing. i feel no bitternes towards thailand and its people (i do pi_ss on the establishment/feudalism). i didn't come here to build up a life or carreer or retire. i just got hammocked-up here just like i got hammocked-up in other parts of the world before. last year i left as my thai "adventure" had reached its peak and i didn't wanna see it spoiled by misfortune or frustration.

I too have seen a lot of less than happy looking farang half trapped by marriage or investestnet eyc & hope things will improve but but generally it a ground hog day for a lot of them. it is indeed a great place relax, shop & just socialize but for business, investments & wives it a place of misery long term. I can't respect thais as they can't respect anything not even themselves, their income or their religion . I had a few thai friends over the years but they hard work lol ...

[PaullyW]

It would be nice if Thailand had a Western neighbourhood somewhere, something like Chinatown.

They have - it's called Pattaya

What i like about Pattaya is the foreign restaurants (even Indian, Lebanese or whatever) and that they speak better english than Bangkokians.

If Bangkok had a Western neighbourhood it would also attract many Thai to learn english,hygiene/butchering/medical/safety/efficiency/high quality and so on. But since Westerners are not allowed to work here it will never happen.

The Thai like to build small villages in Western Style (like in Khao Yai area) but they can't produce the same atmosphere/quality there, no matter how hard they try.

If there was a nice Western neighbourhood (not only nightlife like in Pattaya) it would even attract many extra tourists from neighbouring Asian country's.

Not only is there not a nice western neighborhood in Thailand, neither is there a single uniformly nice neighborhood OF ANY TYPE in Thailand.

There is a nice house here and there, but nothing uniformly nice. Khao Yai probably comes closest but even it isn't very nice.

[Thian]

I have been to 90 countries and 303 cities since I was 15, but Thai still think I know nothing!! That's the frustration living here.

hehe. classic. 90 other countries mean nothing to someone who hasn't been further than some border market...

brazil, brussels, same same. austria, australia, same same.

You are not the only one who gets that. I find it amusing when I have told people who come to do a job at the house and then ignore what I told them only later to have to re-do it the way I said. The wife is just as bad she thinks the guys know what to do and wont accept that I have a lot more experience than they do and know their plan is wrong.

It's called FACE. a thai who has been abroad knows EVERYTHING about all abroadnesses in the world. he or she can say what he wants, the others will never question or critisize his words. i have heard the most absurd things about my country, 555

here's a nice example i experienced: local 'handy-man' (guy who does all kinds of jobs in the mooban) came to my rental house installing water filter. he placed the cartridges in the filter still with the sealing (foil) around them, althought each cartridge clearly stated in english the foil had to be taken off obviously. makes u wonder how many households the guy has installed it that way making the filters worthless and actually non-functional. still, he is considered an "authority" around here (paint jobs, electricity jobs, filter jobs, plumbing jobs, etc). i told the landlord i was going to tell him (friendly!) so he would not make the same mistake but she said that would make him lose face so i never bothered.

You answered youself, it's a rental house! The filters will always stay new and that's what all renters want right?

[chiang mai]

The rehash of the same theme and then published here is making Thavisa tedious, is this really the best you can do, trying to pit resident expats against newbie nomads and trolls!

[benalibina]

my 2 cents: too many farang are trapped here. they come utterly unexperienced, think they can handle all things thai in their superiority-illusion, they get involved in things like girlfriends, wives, houses, businesses, etc. only to find out that none of the standards they were used to apply here. i came here in my 30s (still truly handsome, vital, lucid and not yet brain dead), lived here for 6 ongoing years (legally so spare me the visa crap), learned the language, never had thai wife or gf, had loads of time and financial freedom to prospect on various levels and my conclusion was (and still is): there is no longterm future for me here. i enjoy being here, like a tourist, without responsibilities and able to leave in 24H but any further engagement is a total waste or simply not worth the investment (ie. discomfort) of being subjected to their rules/laws (or lack of respecting the existing laws). the ones staying here with families have no choice so they accept (not understanding thai culture and most of the language, not being understood culturally and language-wise, not addapting to the customs which are totally different than western standards). I see a lot of lost souls here trying to make the best out of it... but failing. i feel no bitternes towards thailand and its people (i do pi_ss on the establishment/feudalism). i didn't come here to build up a life or carreer or retire. i just got hammocked-up here just like i got hammocked-up in other parts of the world before. last year i left as my thai "adventure" had reached its peak and i didn't wanna see it spoiled by misfortune or frustration.

Avoid emotional attachment...yeap thats the way to go for many. It will save one from disappointment whilst staying in control of ones own life.

The veneer of humans is very thin...evenmore so in Thailand.

[chainarong]

Thailand is a basket case, anyone who finds this place their dream destination and plan to spend the rest of their lives here needs serious help..I bitterly regret spending so much of my life here and like many I am constantly calculating my options but at my age life itself is against me.

Luckily I never burnt my bridges and all my assets are still in Europe, assets I had here I have liquidated over the past 18 months and transferred all back to Europe.

Unlike many I came here with work, I never got into the bar and prostitute scene and never married a bar girl… I am not clouded by the rose tints a great many seam to experience and totally know what this place and its people are all about; its 3^rd world and will never change

If you like it enjoy; but if you could experience what I have over almost 5 decades you would be crying in you Sigha

Interesting to read your view, in 5 decades you must have seen a lot.

But I guess that people (including ourselves) change, and countries change. I wonder whether there is any country at all where, after 40-50 years, you can look back and say that you have no regrets.

When TerryP came to Thailand 50 years ago it was a beautiful place, even my 1980 vintage it was great up to 1998 , then it turned for the worst , has stagnated and dropped the ball, now with this lot of spiffs running the country it will take along time to recover., perhaps never , even the Thai's are worried the direction it has suddenly taken.

[benalibina]

It would be nice if Thailand had a Western neighbourhood somewhere, something like Chinatown.

They have - it's called Pattaya

What i like about Pattaya is the foreign restaurants (even Indian, Lebanese or whatever) and that they speak better english than Bangkokians.

If Bangkok had a Western neighbourhood it would also attract many Thai to learn english,hygiene/butchering/medical/safety/efficiency/high quality and so on. But since Westerners are not allowed to work here it will never happen.

The Thai like to build small villages in Western Style (like in Khao Yai area) but they can't produce the same atmosphere/quality there, no matter how hard they try.

If there was a nice Western neighbourhood (not only nightlife like in Pattaya) it would even attract many extra tourists from neighbouring Asian country's.

Not only is there not a nice western neighborhood in Thailand, neither is there a single uniformly nice neighborhood OF ANY TYPE in Thailand.

There is a nice house here and there, but nothing uniformly nice. Khao Yai probably comes closest but even it isn't very nice.

Utter nonsense.