Can a company in Thailand reduce a foreigners salary?

[Bigleg]

Hi

I'm finding it difficult to find an answer to this one.

If a company decides can it legally lower a foreigners salary and force them to take it even if not agreed and not what has been paid to date?

I'm not meaning it would be under legal minimum for a work permit, just a drop in salary from what was agreed. say, from 100,000 a month to 60,000.

[JohnC]

What does your contract say?

[Bobotie]

The WP doesnt come into it

Its a contractual thing

If a company tried that on me, i would walk, not a reputable company to work for simple

[BritTim]

As stated, this depends on your employment contract. If there is no contract (a big mistake) there are probably few limitations on what your employer can do. Really, though, a substantial drop in salary would suggest to me that they want you to resign. If you do not find another job within a short period of time, they will probably terminate you. Then there becomes an interesting question as to what severance pay you are entitled to.

[Bigleg]

In this case there is no contract, just a letter of offer, with the salary on it.

It was my understanding that this was binding as a contract. Further reading I have found that a company that does not give a contract is bound by normal Thai laws.

I just want to know if it is legal to lower a salary, as BritTim states, it would seem it would be a way to get people to quit, or sack them for a lower severance pay.

[Bobotie]

In this case there is no contract, just a letter of offer, with the salary on it.

It was my understanding that this was binding as a contract. Further reading I have found that a company that does not give a contract is bound by normal Thai laws.

I just want to know if it is legal to lower a salary, as BritTim states, it would seem it would be a way to get people to quit, or sack them for a lower severance pay.

Contract or not, they are still bound by labour laws and the employee is protected under the same labour laws.

You have a letter stating your offer ? Are you working for them ?...if you are... they "technically" cant pay you a lower salary without renegotating your current T&Cs, but with that being said, all they have to say is they cant pay you the original amount due to "ecomomic" conditions, but have made an alternative offer to keep you employed which is then your call take it or leave it

So to answer your question, is it legal ?...yes it is if they are doing it as part of a renegotation or your T&Cs

Edited March 21, 2016 by Bobotie

[ubonjoe]

In this case there is no contract, just a letter of offer, with the salary on it.

It was my understanding that this was binding as a contract. Further reading I have found that a company that does not give a contract is bound by normal Thai laws.

I just want to know if it is legal to lower a salary, as BritTim states, it would seem it would be a way to get people to quit, or sack them for a lower severance pay.

You can get some answers by reading the Labour Protection Act B.E. 2541 (1998)

[sunnyjim5]

The OP could seek advice from the Local Labour Office.

He may need to be accompanied by a competent Thai/English speaker.

[andre47]

In this case there is no contract, just a letter of offer, with the salary on it.

It was my understanding that this was binding as a contract. Further reading I have found that a company that does not give a contract is bound by normal Thai laws.

I just want to know if it is legal to lower a salary, as BritTim states, it would seem it would be a way to get people to quit, or sack them for a lower severance pay.

How long did they paid you the higher salary?

A contract don't must be in written form. If you have an offer about that salary and the company paid it for a certain time then you have a contract with them. They cannot lower the salary without consent. But according to the labor laws they could perhaps quit your contract.

[harrry]

In this case there is no contract, just a letter of offer, with the salary on it.

It was my understanding that this was binding as a contract. Further reading I have found that a company that does not give a contract is bound by normal Thai laws.

I just want to know if it is legal to lower a salary, as BritTim states, it would seem it would be a way to get people to quit, or sack them for a lower severance pay.

How long did they paid you the higher salary?

A contract don't must be in written form. If you have an offer about that salary and the company paid it for a certain time then you have a contract with them. They cannot lower the salary without consent. But according to the labor laws they could perhaps quit your contract.

paying the apropriate termination

[Bobotie]

In this case there is no contract, just a letter of offer, with the salary on it.

It was my understanding that this was binding as a contract. Further reading I have found that a company that does not give a contract is bound by normal Thai laws.

I just want to know if it is legal to lower a salary, as BritTim states, it would seem it would be a way to get people to quit, or sack them for a lower severance pay.

How long did they paid you the higher salary?

A contract don't must be in written form. If you have an offer about that salary and the company paid it for a certain time then you have a contract with them. They cannot lower the salary without consent. But according to the labor laws they could perhaps quit your contract.

paying the apropriate termination

If entitled to it of course

[lovelomsak]

I do not have an answer for the question. But have a good story about wages and contracts.

The local High school had 3 english teachers they wanted to get rid of. They were paying them 32,000 baht. The second year they paid them 25,000 baht. The third year they paid them 20,000 baht. The teachers said pay more or we quit. The school took their offer of quitting.

[Scouse Twoccer]

I do not have an answer for the question. But have a good story about wages and contracts.

The local High school had 3 english teachers they wanted to get rid of. They were paying them 32,000 baht. The second year they paid them 25,000 baht. The third year they paid them 20,000 baht. The teachers said pay more or we quit. The school took their offer of quitting.

You said that you had a good story, what happened to it?

[Kabula]

You should find a competent, seasoned, professional, trial lawyer specializing in employee-employer relationships and visit with him face to face. As the worldwide economy retreats, contracts are broken every day. In most cases after evaluating the expense of a competent Attorney, many just move on to another job or accept the cut. The increase in taxes and inflation worldwide combined with stocks and currencies retreating, employers are forced to cut back. In my opinion after living here for 9 years any legal action for a foreigner would be an uphill battle.

[scorecard]

What does your contract say?

And why are they wanting to reduce your salary? If you don't disclose that information (absolutely your choice of course), then I don't see how anybody here can give you any focused comment.

By the law the Thai labor law covers all employment / labor matters, same for Thai and non-Thai employees.

What is of course somewhere in this situation, the various requirements for approval / renewal of a work permit, but that's a different subject here.

[Bobotie]

You should find a competent, seasoned, professional, trial lawyer specializing in employee-employer relationships and visit with him face to face. As the worldwide economy retreats, contracts are broken every day. In most cases after evaluating the expense of a competent Attorney, many just move on to another job or accept the cut. The increase in taxes and inflation worldwide combined with stocks and currencies retreating, employers are forced to cut back. In my opinion after living here for 9 years any legal action for a foreigner would be an uphill battle.

Well not to be rude, but in 9 years you have never heard of the Department of labour (DOL) who do have employees interests at heart, and who,if the OP has a legitmate claim with regard to violation of the labour law will take the company concerned to court on behalf of OP and its free, furthef many foreigners have taken companies to labour court via the DOL and won their cases

Edited March 22, 2016 by Bobotie

[khun custard]

[

What does your contract say?

And why are they wanting to reduce your salary? If you don't disclose that information (absolutely your choice of course), then I don't see how anybody here can give you any focused comment.

By the law the Thai labor law covers all employment / labor matters, same for Thai and non-Thai employees.

1st question that comes to mind would be to ask you if the company has obtained the Work Visa AND Work Permit for you?

If these documents are not in place what they pay you is all hypothetical.

[Bobotie]

What does your contract say?

And why are they wanting to reduce your salary? If you don't disclose that information (absolutely your choice of course), then I don't see how anybody here can give you any focused comment.

By the law the Thai labor law covers all employment / labor matters, same for Thai and non-Thai employees.

What is of course somewhere in this situation, the various requirements for approval / renewal of a work permit, but that's a different subject here.

And this is the key what reason has been given ?....

[Bobotie]

[

What does your contract say?

And why are they wanting to reduce your salary? If you don't disclose that information (absolutely your choice of course), then I don't see how anybody here can give you any focused comment.

By the law the Thai labor law covers all employment / labor matters, same for Thai and non-Thai employees.

1st question that comes to mind would be to ask you if the company has obtained the Work Visa AND Work Permit for you?

If these documents are not in place what they pay you is all hypothetical.

If the documents are not in place and the OP is working for the company he may still have a claim in the labour court, in cases like this if legit, the fact the OP doesnt have a WP is secondary in the eyes of the DOL in other words it doesnt mean he doesnt have a case possibly

Edited March 22, 2016 by Bobotie

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

Any advice on here is useless as we don't have the documents in front of us and we don't have all the facts and knowledge. Go to the Department of labor with all your documents and talk to them. If the company has contravened any law they can act against them.

[blackcab]

You should find a competent, seasoned, professional, trial lawyer specializing in employee-employer relationships and visit with him face to face. As the worldwide economy retreats, contracts are broken every day. In most cases after evaluating the expense of a competent Attorney, many just move on to another job or accept the cut. The increase in taxes and inflation worldwide combined with stocks and currencies retreating, employers are forced to cut back. In my opinion after living here for 9 years any legal action for a foreigner would be an uphill battle.

Well not to be rude, but in 9 years you have never heard of the Department of labour (DOL) who do have employees interests at heart, and who,if the OP has a legitmate claim with regard to violation of the labour law will take the company concerned to court on behalf of OP and its free, furthef many foreigners have taken companies to labour court via the DOL and won their cases

Exactly. Go to the Labour Court. They really are on the side of the employee. If you have a case they will deal with it for you.

You dont need a contract, what you really need is proof of your salary payments. If you can prove that then they will simply take it that amount was the agreed amount.

Really, they are very good and quick too. I know, I have been on the employer's side of their judgements and it was painful for the company.

[smotherb]

The WP doesnt come into it

Its a contractual thing

If a company tried that on me, i would walk, not a reputable company to work for simple

Of course a company can reduce your salary. No matter your contract, you can be terminated. Offering to keep you on at a reduced recompense may be better than termination and allow them to legally reduce your salary.

[Rayk]

I do not have an answer for the question. But have a good story about wages and contracts.

The local High school had 3 english teachers they wanted to get rid of. They were paying them 32,000 baht. The second year they paid them 25,000 baht. The third year they paid them 20,000 baht. The teachers said pay more or we quit. The school took their offer of quitting.

If they wanted to get rid of them, wouldn't it have been easier to simply not renew their contract after the 1st year? Edited March 22, 2016 by Rayk

[Bigleg]

In this case there is no contract, just a letter of offer, with the salary on it.

It was my understanding that this was binding as a contract. Further reading I have found that a company that does not give a contract is bound by normal Thai laws.

I just want to know if it is legal to lower a salary, as BritTim states, it would seem it would be a way to get people to quit, or sack them for a lower severance pay.

Contract or not, they are still bound by labour laws and the employee is protected under the same labour laws.

You have a letter stating your offer ? Are you working for them ?...if you are... they "technically" cant pay you a lower salary without renegotating your current T&Cs, but with that being said, all they have to say is they cant pay you the original amount due to "ecomomic" conditions, but have made an alternative offer to keep you employed which is then your call take it or leave it

So to answer your question, is it legal ?...yes it is if they are doing it as part of a renegotation or your T&Cs

Yes I have a letter signed with my package on it, which has never been paid in full since day one. My basic yes but the promised comms, never

[Bigleg]

In this case there is no contract, just a letter of offer, with the salary on it.

It was my understanding that this was binding as a contract. Further reading I have found that a company that does not give a contract is bound by normal Thai laws.

I just want to know if it is legal to lower a salary, as BritTim states, it would seem it would be a way to get people to quit, or sack them for a lower severance pay.

How long did they paid you the higher salary?

A contract don't must be in written form. If you have an offer about that salary and the company paid it for a certain time then you have a contract with them. They cannot lower the salary without consent. But according to the labor laws they could perhaps quit your contract.

11 months to date

[Bigleg]

What does your contract say?

And why are they wanting to reduce your salary? If you don't disclose that information (absolutely your choice of course), then I don't see how anybody here can give you any focused comment.

By the law the Thai labor law covers all employment / labor matters, same for Thai and non-Thai employees.

What is of course somewhere in this situation, the various requirements for approval / renewal of a work permit, but that's a different subject here.

They are letting people go left right and centre and replacing them with cheaper staff. Get the farang to set it up, then replace with a Thai... Forward thinking...

[Bigleg]

[

What does your contract say?

And why are they wanting to reduce your salary? If you don't disclose that information (absolutely your choice of course), then I don't see how anybody here can give you any focused comment.

By the law the Thai labor law covers all employment / labor matters, same for Thai and non-Thai employees.

1st question that comes to mind would be to ask you if the company has obtained the Work Visa AND Work Permit for you?

If these documents are not in place what they pay you is all hypothetical.

Yes, all permits are in place

[Bigleg]

The WP doesnt come into it

Its a contractual thing

If a company tried that on me, i would walk, not a reputable company to work for simple

Of course a company can reduce your salary. No matter your contract, you can be terminated. Offering to keep you on at a reduced recompense may be better than termination and allow them to legally reduce your salary.

This is the reason I started the thread. It was my understanding that a company cannot just lower your salary without both parties agreeing to it

[Bigleg]

I do not have an answer for the question. But have a good story about wages and contracts.

The local High school had 3 english teachers they wanted to get rid of. They were paying them 32,000 baht. The second year they paid them 25,000 baht. The third year they paid them 20,000 baht. The teachers said pay more or we quit. The school took their offer of quitting.

If they wanted to get rid of them, wouldn't it have been easier to simply not renew their contract after the 1st year?

Contracts in Thailand are ongoing unless otherwise stated.

[Bigleg]

Thanks for all your replies people, appreciated!