Procedure For Blacklist

[peteinCM]

I stayed in Thailand four months last summer, and at one hotel for three of them. When I checked out, I paid part of my bill with a credit card and part with cash later that same day. Now three months later, the hotel has emailed me, and denies I ever made a cash payment, and they said their lawyer is starting legal proceedings to have me put on the immigration blacklist, so I can never enter Thailand again. I always wondered why the hotel was always so insistent I pay in cash (now I know), and I never got receipts for any of my cash payments. Thankfully, my Thai companion was with me when I made the payment they say I never made. Also, the hotel owners are Europeans who have been in Thailand for only a short time and who are already in litigation with the former owner of the hotel because they have not paid him in full for the business.

I understand this is most likely a bluff or shakedown on their part (or else their employee pocketed the money as no one else was around when I paid) and have been told this by other posters and by a lawyer at Sunbelt. However, I am in a relationship with a Thai and would like to open a business there next year. So, I'm still nervous about this as TIT. I could ignore it, but would rest easier knowing the procedure for blacklisting.

Can a business get immigration to blacklist someone over a disputed 20,000 baht hotel bill? Does the person subject to be blacklisted get any notice or right to defend themselves? Can someone be blacklisted who is not even in the country and has no idea of their blacklisting? How does the blacklist work and the procedure for placing someone on it?

My Thai friend who was with me when I paid is mad as hel_l because he thinks I am being shaken down. He is an MBA student at a top Thai University and has a cousin in the police in Phuket where the hotel is located. He wants me to report the hotel and cause problems for them. I just want to steer clear of any immigration problems in regards to this, and for me, mai pen rai. I'm not going to give the hotel any money though, and just want to be 100% sure that there is no danger of being placed on an immigration blacklist due to my simpily ignoring the issue.

Thanks.

BTW--I did post about this on the travel forum, but as I had specific questions about immigration and the procedures for blacklisting, I thought the immigration forum might be a better fit.

Edited October 29, 2006 by peteinCM

[aussiestyle1983]

I seriously doubt immigration would even consider black listing someone for not paying a hotel bill, especially if you have a wittness to say you paid it. I wouldnt worry at all about being blacklisted, unless you murder someone here or are a trafficer..................

As for the hotel/ owner, <deleted> them, try to lodge a formal compliaint against them, so you have proof that you have taken some sort of action. If you do nothing and this matter goes any further, authorities here might think you are guilty for not taking any action. I would do what ever you have to do to cover you ass........................but the hotel/ owner is most likely bluffing like you said to try to make afew dollars to pay of debt, but still, just get something in writing to be safe.

Edited October 29, 2006 by aussiestyle1983

[aussiestyle1983]

And I hope you learned, next time ask for a reciept.........................

[desmond]

what is the hotel name ? Let us know so we are aware

[lopburi3]

what is the hotel name ? Let us know so we are aware

Please don't. We have no way to verify a post/poster.

[Maestro]

Can a business get immigration to blacklist someone over a disputed 20,000 baht hotel bill?

My understanding of your situation is as follows:

1. The hotel cannot have you blacklisted at Immigration because of the alleged non-payment of a debt. (Thai law provides other avenues for debt collection)

2. The email you received from the hotel manager amounts to extortion, regardless whether you do or do not owe the hotel any money. However, if you choose to sue the hotel manager, the email may not be sufficient evidence. A document with the person’s original signature might be needed. Try to get such signed document, even if at the moment you have no intention of suing for extortion.

3. You have a witness to testify in court that you made the cash payment. This will help you win the case if the hotel decides to pursue the case in the appropriate court. While the witness would probably have to appear personally in court, you may want to get from him a signed affidavit already at this time.

Whichever way you respond to the hotel manager, do not make any threats. “Speak softly and carry a big stick.”_Theodore Roosevelt

---------------

Maestro

[Couthy]

And I hope you learned, next time ask for a reciept.........................

Here, here - You stay in a hotel and make cash payments and are not given a receipt?.

Ever wonder why that is?.

Now you know. Always, always insist on a receipt ; Goodness, there is never a problem with it and your back is covered.

On your litigation front : It is oft said that a foreigner cannot have a barney with a Thai - this is wrong and so wrong.

If you are the aggreived party and feel that you are fully in the right (without resorting to vast amounts of booze and aggression) then you will sort it out very quickly and very reasonably- without cost to yourself.

Thailand is a country comprised of village mentality people and in any village in any country compromise is the way that keeps the society running.

If you think that you have been bad done by - keep your head, speak slow and calmly.

And if you have a witness (paiyaan) then so much the better.

You'll be O.K. and don't worry about it - if you paid, you paid.

Cheers,

Couthy.

[peteinCM]

Thanks for the replies.

However, I still wonder if anyone knows the procedure immigration uses for blacklisting. Is there one? I am in the US, so I wouldn't be aware of any proceedings involving me which is why I'm so curious as to the actual process. I'm guessing from comments that the complaint by the hotel's lawyer would be dismissed out of hand by immigration, but does anyone have working knowledge of the procedure that can tell me with some degree of certainty?

Thanks.

[Jim Abbott]

The Avenue the Hotel guy is taking is actually quite smart. What better way to get money back than threatening a farang with blacklisting, the most feared word in the world. I must say that I have never ever heard of anyone checking out of a hotel without being paid in full. I've never seen credit in Thailand for anything as well. I never stayed in any hotel without prepaying as it was always demanded by the hotel. It looks like the clerk ripped off the cash. I dont think they can blacklist you over this though

[Richard-BKK]

I belief that any immigration police officer will laugh more then I can imagine, “pay hotel bill or get blacklisted”. Wished I was able to use that line

You can get blacklisted for not paying something, but then first you have to go to court and a judge will decides what is going to happen. I have to say, not many, cases below 30.000 Baht make it to court and from that 50% will not make it to the courtroom.

The immigration offices have a list for standard blacklisting offenses, approved by the Thai court. Payment disputes are ,as far as I know, not on the list so to get blacklisted you need to go to court.

[peteinCM]

It seems according to legal advice by Sunbelt that I would have to be convicted of a crime to get on the blacklist.

So, the hotel has to press criminal charges against me on a bill I have already paid and have a reputable Thai witness to my paying. The alleged owed amount is about 20k baht. I checked out of that hotel three months ago and have been back in the US for over a month now. How would I even know if they filed a criminal complaint?

Like some of you, my Thai friend who was with me when I paid is also incredulous at this because obviously I had to pay at checkout (or the police should have been called then), so it seems like such a stupid assertion for the hotel to make so many months later.

From what I understand if they do press charges against me and the charges are dismissed, I could sue for libel. I wish I could just ignore it and it all go away, but I need to protect myself. What a pain in the butt.

Thanks again for all the comments.

[John K]

They would have never let you leave the lobby if you did not pay. I don’t know how you would do it but check for a history of this at that hotel. It would substantiate your position.

[midas]

" I am in a relationship with a Thai and would like to open a business there next year."[/color]

As a prospective businessman in Thailand you will need to have much better awareness regarding the importance of receipts with transactions- you will also need to GIVE receipts to your customers as well .........in all cases