Confirmed: Minors to dodge overstay blacklisting

[snoop1130]

Confirmed: Minors to dodge overstay blacklisting
Chutharat Plerin

PHUKET: -- Children will not be blacklisted for overstaying their visas, officials confirmed today.

Thailand’s implementation of a regulation to blacklist overstayers will not affect those under the age of 18, explained Immigration Commissioner Nathathorn Prousoontorn. The news follows much uncertainty in Phuket after the regulations were announced earlier this month.

“The new penalties came into effective on March 20. They are part of the Immigration Bureau’s campaign: ‘Good Guys In, Bad Guys Out’,” Lt Gen Nathathorn explained at a public meeting at Phuket Boat Lagoon today.

Full Story: http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket-news/Confirmed-Minors-dodge-overstay-blacklisting/63526?desktopversion#ad-image-0

-- Phuket Gazette 2016-03-25

[davejones76]

In other words money IN, no money OUT

[gandalf12]

What would they do to minors? Deport a 2 year old? A touch of sense is required and it appears someone has seen it

[Jedsada3]

This was to be expected: minors are not responsible for their parents foolishness.

On the same way I suppose that if minors are in overstay parents are also in overstay. Children won't be deported but they will have to travel out with their parents... or do I see it wrong?

[Soupdragon]

This was to be expected: minors are not responsible for their parents foolishness.

On the same way I suppose that if minors are in overstay parents are also in overstay. Children won't be deported but they will have to travel out with their parents... or do I see it wrong?

Parents could be on a long stay visa that doesn't require leaving the country. i.e. retirement visa. There are been no penalties for overstaying minors so advice from immigration has been no need to get them a visa. So parents legally stay in the country but children on long overstay.

[Jedsada3]

Thank you for the explanation.

I was told that the children get a visa for the same period as the one of the parents then it was logical in my mind that they would be renewable at the same day...

[stevenl]

Thank you for the explanation.

I was told that the children get a visa for the same period as the one of the parents then it was logical in my mind that they would be renewable at the same day...

Yes, that would be recommended. But not everybody, and that includes immigration offices, are willing to do that.

[gemguy]

According to one of the well known law firms, I was told by their immigration matters lawyer, a young man with a snooty sounding attitude, he made it very clear that all persons of any age holding a passport issued from any foreign country and therefore a citizen of that country are required to have the correct or appropriate visa or extension ...and that has always been the law and remains so...if going by the book and the letter of the law.

He made that very, very clear repeatedly in his conversation with me.

HOWEVER ......the immigration authorities have never enforced that law for any foreign national passport holder that is under 18 years old, whether born here in Thailand and then obtaining a foreign passport issued to the child from the embassy of one of the parents of a foreign county and then the child in effect holds that countries passport or....... whether they were born out side Thailand and obtained the passport outside of Thailand before ever coming to Thailand.

If the child entered the country on a foreign passport and they entered on a tourist visa upon arrival or have a tourist visa obtained through a Thai Embassy or Thai consulate prior to entering the country and they stay longer than the length of the visa issued to the child then the child is in effect on overstay and in violation of the law.

HOWEVER...the immigration authorities have never enforced that law as they can not??......or will not.... prosecute or fine or jail or imprison a child for violation of the immigration laws..... in that manner.

That being the case, then it should be obvious to everyone that, in theory, someone would have to be responsible for the Childs

immigration status and immigration affairs so that is obviously the parent or parents or guardian(s) of the child.

So...the lawyer made it very clear that you, the parent or guardian, would be burdened with the responsibility or accountability if they were to ever enforce that law.

HOWEVER they do not enforce the law while they ignore the violation and do not penalize or fine anyone for the infraction of the law.

In theory, the child should be issued the correct extension for long term stay and attached to, so to speak, to one of the parents long time immigration extensions while the parent has to apply for that extension and obtain that extension on behalf of the child.

Once the child is on the correct long term extension ( sorry but I did not specifically ask the lawyer what extension or which long term extension would be appropriate) then that long term extension has to coincide with the start and finish of the parents long term extension.

** When the parents long term extension ends then so does the Childs extension and requires renewing the long term extension of the parent and the Childs long term extension at the same time and recognized as attached to that patents immigration extension

In theory, the child would have to leave the country and get stamped out and then re-enter the country on a tourist visa and then the parent or parents or guardian(s) would apply for a long term extension to coincide with the one parents or guardians long term immigration status and when the extension ends then the parent or guardian would apply for and renew the parents extension and the child extension at the same time.

** But, for the first time the Child has to leave the country and re-enter on a tourist visa upon arrival...or a tourist visa prior to arrival obtained from a Thai embassy or Thai Consulate and then, while in Thailand and ( Before ) the tourist visa ends the parent(s) or Guardian(s) would arrange for the appropriate long term visa for the child.

Unfortunately that means if the parents extension ends on say Aug 29 th and the Childs extension is applied for and granted on April 29 th then the Childs extension is only good until the parents extension ends and the both of them have to renew their extensions and do it all over again....I was told .

The next years immigration extension would not require leaving the country rather just apply for a 1 year extension at the immigration office in the various locations throughout Thailand....but ...how each immigration office throughout the country handles the new extension??? who knows until you are there and applying for the extension.

That is if you want you child to be completely legal and no problems occurring for the parent or parents or guardian....other than the hassle of having to do everything involved including the money involved.

I asked the lawyer if he has ever handled a case where the immigration authorities have tried to hold the parent or parents or guardian(s) accountable for that particular infraction of the immigration law, as I said there must be several thousand or tens of thousands of children residing here in Thailand while existing here on a foreign nationals passport and long overstayed already and in effect in violation of the over stay laws.

He told me that he personally has never had to deal with a case like that ...but .....he has arranged and does arrange and facilitate the application and successful transfer of a child on an existing tourist visa status over to the appropriate 1 year extension and attached, so to speak, to the parents or guardians long term immigration status.

*** For those of you who will claim rumor mongering and or fear mongering or misconstrue what is re-iterated here by the immigration lawyer at the law firm that I talked to 1 month ago then phone yourself and you will be told the same thing as I was told.

The lawyer made it perfectly clear that the parents could or can be held accountable ...But...they have never enforced the overstay laws or penalties on anyone relative to child under 18 years having overstayed their visa or a long term extension.

Then he added: With the current crack down on overstay violators do not be surprised if you could run into, so to speak, immigration officers that could or would try to hold a parent or parents or guardian(s) accountable and be told they have to pay an overstay fine for the child.

In other words it has probably happened before and with the current crack down then why would you be surprised if some sleazy immigration officer tried to make you pay the over stay fine on the child and up to the maximum of 20,000 baht....same as the parents.

Once again the lawyer made it very clear that has always been the law anyhow ....but..... that aspect of the immigration law has never been enforced for those passport holders under 18 years old and in violation of the law.

Cheers

[stevenl]

According to one of the well known law firms, I was told by their immigration matters lawyer, a young man with a snooty sounding attitude, he made it very clear that all persons of any age holding a passport issued from any foreign country and therefore a citizen of that country are required to have the correct or appropriate visa or extension ...and that has always been the law and remains so...if going by the book and the letter of the law.

He made that very, very clear repeatedly in his conversation with me.

HOWEVER ......the immigration authorities have never enforced that law for any foreign national passport holder that is under 18 years old, whether born here in Thailand and then obtaining a foreign passport issued to the child from the embassy of one of the parents of a foreign county and then the child in effect holds that countries passport or....... whether they were born out side Thailand and obtained the passport outside of Thailand before ever coming to Thailand.

If the child entered the country on a foreign passport and they entered on a tourist visa upon arrival or have a tourist visa obtained through a Thai Embassy or Thai consulate prior to entering the country and they stay longer than the length of the visa issued to the child then the child is in effect on overstay and in violation of the law.

HOWEVER...the immigration authorities have never enforced that law as they can not??......or will not.... prosecute or fine or jail or imprison a child for violation of the immigration laws..... in that manner.

That being the case, then it should be obvious to everyone that, in theory, someone would have to be responsible for the Childs

immigration status and immigration affairs so that is obviously the parent or parents or guardian(s) of the child.

So...the lawyer made it very clear that you, the parent or guardian, would be burdened with the responsibility or accountability if they were to ever enforce that law.

HOWEVER they do not enforce the law while they ignore the violation and do not penalize or fine anyone for the infraction of the law.

In theory, the child should be issued the correct extension for long term stay and attached to, so to speak, to one of the parents long time immigration extensions while the parent has to apply for that extension and obtain that extension on behalf of the child.

Once the child is on the correct long term extension ( sorry but I did not specifically ask the lawyer what extension or which long term extension would be appropriate) then that long term extension has to coincide with the start and finish of the parents long term extension.

** When the parents long term extension ends then so does the Childs extension and requires renewing the long term extension of the parent and the Childs long term extension at the same time and recognized as attached to that patents immigration extension

In theory, the child would have to leave the country and get stamped out and then re-enter the country on a tourist visa and then the parent or parents or guardian(s) would apply for a long term extension to coincide with the one parents or guardians long term immigration status and when the extension ends then the parent or guardian would apply for and renew the parents extension and the child extension at the same time.

** But, for the first time the Child has to leave the country and re-enter on a tourist visa upon arrival...or a tourist visa prior to arrival obtained from a Thai embassy or Thai Consulate and then, while in Thailand and ( Before ) the tourist visa ends the parent(s) or Guardian(s) would arrange for the appropriate long term visa for the child.

Unfortunately that means if the parents extension ends on say Aug 29 th and the Childs extension is applied for and granted on April 29 th then the Childs extension is only good until the parents extension ends and the both of them have to renew their extensions and do it all over again....I was told .

The next years immigration extension would not require leaving the country rather just apply for a 1 year extension at the immigration office in the various locations throughout Thailand....but ...how each immigration office throughout the country handles the new extension??? who knows until you are there and applying for the extension.

That is if you want you child to be completely legal and no problems occurring for the parent or parents or guardian....other than the hassle of having to do everything involved including the money involved.

I asked the lawyer if he has ever handled a case where the immigration authorities have tried to hold the parent or parents or guardian(s) accountable for that particular infraction of the immigration law, as I said there must be several thousand or tens of thousands of children residing here in Thailand while existing here on a foreign nationals passport and long overstayed already and in effect in violation of the over stay laws.

He told me that he personally has never had to deal with a case like that ...but .....he has arranged and does arrange and facilitate the application and successful transfer of a child on an existing tourist visa status over to the appropriate 1 year extension and attached, so to speak, to the parents or guardians long term immigration status.

*** For those of you who will claim rumor mongering and or fear mongering or misconstrue what is re-iterated here by the immigration lawyer at the law firm that I talked to 1 month ago then phone yourself and you will be told the same thing as I was told.

The lawyer made it perfectly clear that the parents could or can be held accountable ...But...they have never enforced the overstay laws or penalties on anyone relative to child under 18 years having overstayed their visa or a long term extension.

Then he added: With the current crack down on overstay violators do not be surprised if you could run into, so to speak, immigration officers that could or would try to hold a parent or parents or guardian(s) accountable and be told they have to pay an overstay fine for the child.

In other words it has probably happened before and with the current crack down then why would you be surprised if some sleazy immigration officer tried to make you pay the over stay fine on the child and up to the maximum of 20,000 baht....same as the parents.

Once again the lawyer made it very clear that has always been the law anyhow ....but..... that aspect of the immigration law has never been enforced for those passport holders under 18 years old and in violation of the law.

Cheers

Not completely correct.

Also for minors visa or extension is required, but the law is they can not be fined.

[gemguy]

According to one of the well known law firms, I was told by their immigration matters lawyer, a young man with a snooty sounding attitude, he made it very clear that all persons of any age holding a passport issued from any foreign country and therefore a citizen of that country are required to have the correct or appropriate visa or extension ...and that has always been the law and remains so...if going by the book and the letter of the law.

He made that very, very clear repeatedly in his conversation with me.

HOWEVER ......the immigration authorities have never enforced that law for any foreign national passport holder that is under 18 years old, whether born here in Thailand and then obtaining a foreign passport issued to the child from the embassy of one of the parents of a foreign county and then the child in effect holds that countries passport or....... whether they were born out side Thailand and obtained the passport outside of Thailand before ever coming to Thailand.

If the child entered the country on a foreign passport and they entered on a tourist visa upon arrival or have a tourist visa obtained through a Thai Embassy or Thai consulate prior to entering the country and they stay longer than the length of the visa issued to the child then the child is in effect on overstay and in violation of the law.

HOWEVER...the immigration authorities have never enforced that law as they can not??......or will not.... prosecute or fine or jail or imprison a child for violation of the immigration laws..... in that manner.

That being the case, then it should be obvious to everyone that, in theory, someone would have to be responsible for the Childs

immigration status and immigration affairs so that is obviously the parent or parents or guardian(s) of the child.

So...the lawyer made it very clear that you, the parent or guardian, would be burdened with the responsibility or accountability if they were to ever enforce that law.

HOWEVER they do not enforce the law while they ignore the violation and do not penalize or fine anyone for the infraction of the law.

In theory, the child should be issued the correct extension for long term stay and attached to, so to speak, to one of the parents long time immigration extensions while the parent has to apply for that extension and obtain that extension on behalf of the child.

Once the child is on the correct long term extension ( sorry but I did not specifically ask the lawyer what extension or which long term extension would be appropriate) then that long term extension has to coincide with the start and finish of the parents long term extension.

** When the parents long term extension ends then so does the Childs extension and requires renewing the long term extension of the parent and the Childs long term extension at the same time and recognized as attached to that patents immigration extension

In theory, the child would have to leave the country and get stamped out and then re-enter the country on a tourist visa and then the parent or parents or guardian(s) would apply for a long term extension to coincide with the one parents or guardians long term immigration status and when the extension ends then the parent or guardian would apply for and renew the parents extension and the child extension at the same time.

** But, for the first time the Child has to leave the country and re-enter on a tourist visa upon arrival...or a tourist visa prior to arrival obtained from a Thai embassy or Thai Consulate and then, while in Thailand and ( Before ) the tourist visa ends the parent(s) or Guardian(s) would arrange for the appropriate long term visa for the child.

Unfortunately that means if the parents extension ends on say Aug 29 th and the Childs extension is applied for and granted on April 29 th then the Childs extension is only good until the parents extension ends and the both of them have to renew their extensions and do it all over again....I was told .

The next years immigration extension would not require leaving the country rather just apply for a 1 year extension at the immigration office in the various locations throughout Thailand....but ...how each immigration office throughout the country handles the new extension??? who knows until you are there and applying for the extension.

That is if you want you child to be completely legal and no problems occurring for the parent or parents or guardian....other than the hassle of having to do everything involved including the money involved.

I asked the lawyer if he has ever handled a case where the immigration authorities have tried to hold the parent or parents or guardian(s) accountable for that particular infraction of the immigration law, as I said there must be several thousand or tens of thousands of children residing here in Thailand while existing here on a foreign nationals passport and long overstayed already and in effect in violation of the over stay laws.

He told me that he personally has never had to deal with a case like that ...but .....he has arranged and does arrange and facilitate the application and successful transfer of a child on an existing tourist visa status over to the appropriate 1 year extension and attached, so to speak, to the parents or guardians long term immigration status.

*** For those of you who will claim rumor mongering and or fear mongering or misconstrue what is re-iterated here by the immigration lawyer at the law firm that I talked to 1 month ago then phone yourself and you will be told the same thing as I was told.

The lawyer made it perfectly clear that the parents could or can be held accountable ...But...they have never enforced the overstay laws or penalties on anyone relative to child under 18 years having overstayed their visa or a long term extension.

Then he added: With the current crack down on overstay violators do not be surprised if you could run into, so to speak, immigration officers that could or would try to hold a parent or parents or guardian(s) accountable and be told they have to pay an overstay fine for the child.

In other words it has probably happened before and with the current crack down then why would you be surprised if some sleazy immigration officer tried to make you pay the over stay fine on the child and up to the maximum of 20,000 baht....same as the parents.

Once again the lawyer made it very clear that has always been the law anyhow ....but..... that aspect of the immigration law has never been enforced for those passport holders under 18 years old and in violation of the law.

Cheers

Not completely correct.

Also for minors visa or extension is required, but the law is they can not be fined.

Yes...they say they can not be fined....that is what they say.........

But ..the point is..... the guardians or parents can be held responsible as the law "has" been broken.

The point is they have never enforced the law ....but.... with the mood of the new government they may change that and start enforcing the law while some immigration officials may try to enforce that law at their discretion in the belief that they can make some money off of you.... the parent or guardian.

The way that they would interpret the whole affair is such that they know that the child or parents can not be arrested or prosecuted or jailed or imprisoned...but as per the usual...... they can always TRY to make you pay them because they got you by the balls when you are being held by an immigration police officer or officers.

Yes ..stand your ground and do not pay...but the potential hassle is there and always hanging over your head.

I have no doubt some of them would try especially if you and you child were to be stopped by police on the street and they point out the child is several months or several years overstay because the child entered the country on a tourist visa at some point and has been in the country with you and the mother for say 5 years and has not ever needed to leave the country.

The police here in Thailand, being the way they are, they would or could see that as a means to milk you for some money.

Do not doubt it and the reason why the lawyer told me the best thing to do is have the Childs immigration status arranged to be a long stay extension status, same as the parent......or ...take the chance that nothing will come of the Childs current immigration status that IS in violation of the law...but not enforced......fortunately for many people.

Certainly if they want to officially start to enforce that law then you will see them begin to announce that foreign national passport holders under 18 years old overstaying their visa or their extension will ALSO be required to conform to the same laws and obtain the correct long term immigration status and or do not overstay or they will also be subject to the same laws as the parents or anyone 18 years old and over.

Fortunately we do not see that ( yet) and if we did then that enforcement of the existing law would simply cause us more effort and expenditures to consider...while the procedure is not all that difficult and I am certain all parents or guardians would be accommodated

[johnatong]

gemguy

The link will open a copy of the Thai Immigration Act (English version).

Can you or your knowledgeable "lawyer" friend identify the relevant section(s) of the act which support what you (or the "lawyer") are trying to claim ?

If you are unable to comply with this request then clearly the Immigration Act or you are in error (The latter more likely to be true)

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/doc/Immigration_Act.pdf

[brewsterbudgen]

Perhaps Immigration Commissioner Nathathorn Prousoontorn has been reading ThaVisa, as most of us have been pointing out for ages that the overstay penalties do not apply to those under 18!