Sometimes the "Thai Way" just Doesn't Work.....

[DavidB4]

There was no yelling, screaming, stomping, shouting or childish behavior.

From your Western mindset, perhaps.... you realise that you're not in the West now, right?

You obviously have some issues about Thai culture that you'd be better of fixing within yourself, rather than educating the "stupid" Thais about how minor issues should be dealt with.

Best of luck.

Again, you continue to misinterpret my writings. I've never said, or thought for that matter, that Thai people are stupid so please don't try to put those words on me. You obviously have issues with foreigners which you should either deal with or learn to suppress before someone takes that view of you.

BTW - paying someone 20,000 baht (or any amount for that matter) to do something they are not doing is not a "minor" issue in my opinion.

I think your approach is correct. Polite but firm. I don't understand why some expats seem to think that, because they love Thailand, everything is acceptable? If a Thai family are paying 20,000 Baht for a service, but not receiving it, they just accept that as their lot? I'd be surprised if that were true. And if they don't, neither should you.

Nope.

they deal with in a way that gets the work done, in the best way for them - ie, making everyone save face

Of course most big footed farang only know how to stomp in and make demands when the work they pay for hasn't been done, and the Thai way takes a level of insight and intelligence beyond most farang here.

Good luck teaching Thais how Thai matters should be dealt with.

I believe 4 years of trying it the Thai way is more than enough to prove it wasn't working. At what point do you change tactics or do you suggest to keep your head buried in the sand acting like all is well and hope one day it will all be OK?

Taking money for services not rendered is not only wrong it is criminal, even in Thailand. Inaction is condoning this type of behavior and benefits no one.

You are suggesting that talking straightforward to a Thai person about a problem in a calm and polite manner causes them to lose face and will result in retribution? You have an amazing view on things and it doesn't match the views of my Thai friends and family. Thank God.

Well said!

[Baerboxer]

I guess your wife is OK with you paying 20k.

But what if it were her paying 20k?

And, what CH says, pay monthly after the work is done.

And, no point getting angry, just don't pay.

I guess that's a Thai thing. My wife is fine with me paying anything. If the work isn't carried out or not done properly she hates me complaining. Says foreigners don't know how to complain nicely and politely in Thai and we are too confrontational, etc etc etc.

If it was her money she's be on them like a tiger.

My money - "stop worrying, it's only money, be patient, let them try again, it will come good soon, it will be done sometime, etc "

Her money - "must do immediate perfect job"

But don't try and discuss or reason, that just leads to a silent sour sulk for a few days.

[condo bought]

i would stop paying....

Not only immature, but stupid.

Do you know about the knock-on effect that this has on the property?

[arjunadawn]

My point is not contrarian, just a different experience. We too live in an enclosed space with management, maintenance, gardeners, and all the similar descriptions of the OP. Had the OP done what I did his story may still have turned out the same way. Its just that my story worked out fine.

I noticed how long and hard the gardeners worked within our walled in world in the middle of Bangkok. From early morning to late day a bunch of them worked tirelessly- in a way I have rarely seen people back home work. In the beginning my smiles were deep felt and genuine because I respected them. Our smiles and greetings were meaningful because I was sure as hell glad my life did not roll those dice. Occasionally I would return home with an extra bag of cold cokes and leave for them or the security guards. Over time, watching them cut hedges by hand hour after hour I decided to buy them an electric trimmer with two long extension cords. I also threw in a few garden tools I had. My offer was because I had tools that were at least a hundreds years more modern than what they used. Sometimes when they are just in front and I am not busy I bring them cold water- the same as I would do for any workers at my home, or a stranger, or mailman... This is just the evolution of my relationship with the workers by me.

My garden is always trim, the outside watered, any extra projects or help and they are there for me. I am not saying such choices would have helped the OP or even presented to him, only that in my case I have a very similar environment with a very different outcome. In any event, I applaud his pushing back.

[NoshowJones]

What I don't understand is why do you keep paying it? Why don't you just tell him to stay away and you will do the maintenance

yourself? You have to be a mug to pay for a service you are not getting, no matter what country you are in.

[NoshowJones]

If it were me, I would refuse to pay the fee "annually" (if possible) and pay it monthly, and if the work isnt done, it wont get paid.

You took the words right out of my mouth Charlie.

[jomcondo]

The reaction of the wife says it all.

op might be successful

op might be in for some revenge

[richard_smith237]

The "Thai Way" ??? What is it exactly ??? ........ Do I have an "English Way" ? or a "British Way" ?....

I don't know any Thai who has a "Thai Way".... of all the Thai's I know their reactions to a multitude of different situations are as widely ranging as ours would be. There is no "Thai Way"..... This seems to be some myth perpetrated by foreigners who believe themselves to have become more Thai than the Thai's... to perhaps show their overwhelming love for and understanding of the country they've adopted as home, or as simple one-up-man-ship against other foreigners in Thailand....

When ever I have an issue here I react as I would back home - that's because most people here as anywhere else in the world are reasonable.

Often its the communication which is the flaw in many of these issues, and when we fail to communicate effectively, misunderstandings and frustration slips into the mix.

In this case the Op wasn't happy and dealt with the situation, IMO much as many Thai's I know would, I also know plenty of Thai's and foreigners who would handle the situation differently or even completely let it go and smoulder, or, even completely let the issue go and not care....

But to suggest there is a 'Thai Way' just seems daft, it shows a lack of understanding of human nature and people for whom when described in such mass on a national scale generalisations can rarely fit.

[Doc46]

There is Two ways to do things,,,That is the Thai way ,,,,or the right way,,,

[ggt]

The ninjas will attack in the middle of the night...

[sstuff3]

The "Thai Way" ??? What is it exactly ??? ........ Do I have an "English Way" ? or a "British Way" ?....

I don't know any Thai who has a "Thai Way".... of all the Thai's I know their reactions to a multitude of different situations are as widely ranging as ours would be. There is no "Thai Way"..... This seems to be some myth perpetrated by foreigners who believe themselves to have become more Thai than the Thai's... to perhaps show their overwhelming love for and understanding of the country they've adopted as home, or as simple one-up-man-ship against other foreigners in Thailand....

When ever I have an issue here I react as I would back home - that's because most people here as anywhere else in the world are reasonable.

Often its the communication which is the flaw in many of these issues, and when we fail to communicate effectively, misunderstandings and frustration slips into the mix.

In this case the Op wasn't happy and dealt with the situation, IMO much as many Thai's I know would, I also know plenty of Thai's and foreigners who would handle the situation differently or even completely let it go and smoulder, or, even completely let the issue go and not care....

But to suggest there is a 'Thai Way' just seems daft, it shows a lack of understanding of human nature and people for whom when described in such mass on a national scale generalisations can rarely fit.

No need to get personal. Philosophically you are correct, all humans are inherently the same, but to suggest that people of all countries and cultures can be grouped together is flawed. If this were the case, there would be no wars or disputes as everyone would think and act/react the same. There is indeed a “British Way”, “Australian Way”, “American Way”, “African Way”, “Israeli Way”, etc. etc., the list could go on and on. Why the need for the famous saying “when in Rome do as the Romans do” or the most popular one on this forum: T.I.T. if everyone thinks and acts the same? You are also correct that within each country or culture there are a multitude of different ideas and not everyone can be placed into the same category. That does not change the fact that there are unique traits that are widely shared within each country or culture. I conduct business throughout Asia Pacific and adapt my methods and style of dealings to fit each country and their unique cultures. There fortunately, or unfortunately (depending on how you look at it) is not a one-size-fits-all culture.

Edited April 4, 2016 by sstuff3

[sstuff3]

Also as a sidenote, be careful about cutting the grass yourself.

I have a friend of a friend that got arrested by immigration for cutting his own grass. it is a protected profession, and we cant do it. he got reported by another farrang.

Can you ask him to post a report about his experience. Not saying it's not true but I've never seen any first-hand reports about this, although I have seen countless reports of a "friend of a friend". I would be interested in hearing his experience first-hand.

[sstuff3]

The ninjas will attack in the middle of the night...

Best reply yet. Reading some of the responses I think some of the forum members may think this is an actual possibility. Thanks for the smile.

[LawrenceChee]

I honestly would have just burnt it and then wait for the Songkran folks to come and have fun dousing it out

I agree at times it's great to be polite and appreciate the Thai culture however the Thai way is not the only way to resolve an issue and at times it seems better to insist if not nothing will be done