Why take the risk?

[Rob8891]

I recently renewed my medical insurance, which turned out to be quite painful to the pocket, but it is something that I don’t want to skimp on. Sure, there are some exceptions on it, and a risk factor weighting on the premium, but it is an essential thing to have, so I had to put my big boy pants on and dig deep.

By contrast, I keep hearing stories of people who go blithely on their way without this essential protection. Too many folk seem to think that they will just hop on a plane to their home country to ‘get fixed up’ there, but there is a danger that airlines could refuse to carry them if they’re seriously ill, and then they’d be well and truly stuffed.

OK, I can accept that it is increasingly difficult to get health insurance, especially when one hasn’t got their foot on the ladder before age 65, and more especially when they are over 70. One guy I know is hunting around to find a new insurer now he is 72, and he’s not in good health. At least he is trying to sort matters: when I last heard, I think he had succeeded, though at what cost and with what exceptions, one can only imagine.

There are other people who are more cavalier and travel to Thailand having no insurance of any kind.

I’m sure we can all think of several examples of this type of traveller (or expat); in fact the potential list of people is probably endless. Why do so many people choose to take such an avoidable risk?

[Agent Sumo]

Simple. Because they can't afford the premiums.

[johnatong]

Many elderly people are forced out of the health insurance market by relentless increases in the cost of cover.

Try obtaining new cover from an insurance company when 70+ !

[Rob8891]

Many elderly people are forced out of the health insurance market by relentless increases in the cost of cover.

Try obtaining new cover from an insurance company when 70+ !

This isn't just about the older folk: I appreciate the problems of those over 70, when the premiums are loaded even more: I have a bit of time before that unwelcome hurdle (not a lot, I grant you). There are plenty of much younger folk here without cover: I could rattle off four or five examples without much effort, and all involve people who have needed medical assistance but had no insurance. It is crazy.

[johnatong]

Many elderly people are forced out of the health insurance market by relentless increases in the cost of cover.

Try obtaining new cover from an insurance company when 70+ !

This isn't just about the older folk: I appreciate the problems of those over 70, when the premiums are loaded even more: I have a bit of time before that unwelcome hurdle (not a lot, I grant you). There are plenty of much younger folk here without cover: I could rattle off four or five examples without much effort, and all involve people who have needed medical assistance but had no insurance. It is crazy.

Most young(er) people can acquire health insurance at a reasonable cost! In such cases there can be little excuse for not doing so.

[bangkokjulia]

I too agree that anyone over 70 finds it difficult to purchase affordable travel insurance. What I object to is to tourists who head over to Thailand for their cheap two week holiday, and brag about the fact that they don't have travel insurance. Then the sh1t hits the fan, and they find themselves laid up in a Thai hospital. Inevitably, their relatives back home have to bail them out. It's a joke. If people can't afford travel insurance, they should be precluded from travelling.

Edited April 5, 2016 by bangkokjulia

[Rob8891]

Simple. Because they can't afford the premiums.

So if they cannot afford the premium, what are they going to do when they need significant medical help? In an ageing community like expats this becomes a serious issue: infections, infirmity, broken bones, knee/hip replacements... Plenty of people drive / ride scooters etc here, but have no accident insurance, yet they can be seen in restaurants and bars of an evening (or earlier). Maybe priorities need to be examined?

Not being able to afford the premium suggests that they have a bleak future. How will such folk obtain medical aid if they can't pay for it?

[BritManToo]

It's not essential, it's a luxury item.

Most of the people in the world get on perfectly well with no medical insurance or cover of any kind.

Specially in a country like Thailand where you can buy your own drugs straight from the pharmacist.

Accident insurance is a totally different item to health care insurance.

You don't seem to know which you are talking about.

Edited April 5, 2016 by BritManToo

[BookMan]

Many elderly people are forced out of the health insurance market by relentless increases in the cost of cover.

Try obtaining new cover from an insurance company when 70+ !

This isn't just about the older folk: I appreciate the problems of those over 70, when the premiums are loaded even more: I have a bit of time before that unwelcome hurdle (not a lot, I grant you). There are plenty of much younger folk here without cover: I could rattle off four or five examples without much effort, and all involve people who have needed medical assistance but had no insurance. It is crazy.

Lot of under 40s without any medical insurance

[Rob8891]

I too agree that anyone over 70 finds it difficult to purchase affordable travel insurance. What I object to is to tourists who head over to Thailand for their cheap two week holiday, and brag about the fact that they don't have travel insurance. Then the sh1t hits the fan, and they find themselves laid up in a Thai hospital. Inevitably, their relatives back home have to bail them out. It's a joke. If people can't afford travel insurance, they should be precluded from travelling.

These dipsh1ts should have the sense to see they should not travel anywhere without insurance. What is even more worrying is when a habitual tourist who is a very knowledgeable “Thailand expert” (allegedly). He fell off his hired scooter and acquired some impressive scrapes on a highway some distance from where he was staying. Some of the cuts and gouges to his lower limbs and feet were quite deep (the fool only wore flipflops when riding the scooter).

Did he get taken off in an ambulance? No, he did not.

Did he go to a hospital ER? No, he did not.

Injured and in shock, he rode the scooter back to the hotel where he was staying and got help from the hotel staff. After five days in his hotel room he emerged patched up and still in considerable pain, not unsurprisingly. Anyway, he was lucky; he was able to go back to his own country at the end of his holiday without too much difficulty; many uninsured can't.

Why did he not go straight to an ER when reaching the first town or city on his route? Surely, this would have been one of the first actions of someone who had accident / health insurance?

What would have happened if he had been left incapacitated at the roadside, or if he’d contracted a serious infection from his intimate contact with the road?

Surely a 'worldly-wise' Thailand 'expert' wouldn’t travel without adequate medical cover, would he? Oh c'mon, he wouldn't, would he??

[sipi]

Comprehensive travel insurance is a no-brainer.

For a couple of hundred dollars I can cover my family worldwide for a month or two.

[bangkokjulia]

Perhaps said traveller thinks he is invincible.

[BritManToo]

Injured and in shock, he rode the scooter back to the hotel where he was staying and got help from the hotel staff. After five days in his hotel room he emerged patched up and still in considerable pain, not unsurprisingly. Anyway, he was lucky; he was able to go back to his own country at the end of his holiday without too much difficulty; many uninsured can't.

Why did he not go straight to an ER when reaching the first town or city on his route? Surely, this would have been one of the first actions of someone who had accident / health insurance?

Cuts and bruises don't need the attention of a hospital ER, unless they need stitching.

Not that such care is expensive, my last fall needing 8 stitches was less than 300bht in a government hospital.

And that included pain meds and antibiotics, as the grazes from the road were too hard to clean entirely.

What a bunch of big cry babies some western men are becoming.

You do know Moxillin 500 is around 50bht from the pharmacy, stops any infections after some road rash.

Edited April 5, 2016 by BritManToo

[Rob8891]

It's not essential, it's a luxury item.

Most of the people in the world get on perfectly well with no medical insurance or cover of any kind.

Specially in a country like Thailand where you can buy your own drugs straight from the pharmacist.

Accident insurance is a totally different item to health care insurance.

You don't seem to know which you are talking about.

Yes, it is easy to buy drugs at a pharmacy, but what about a serious illness that demands an immediate hospitalisation? Are most people going to be able to meet the not insignificant costs? I think not, when they are facing literally several hundreds of thousands of baht for the OR, surgeon's fees, anaesthetist's fees, room charges, nursing charges, post-op care... It makes the premium look like small potatoes.

[BritManToo]

It's not essential, it's a luxury item.

Most of the people in the world get on perfectly well with no medical insurance or cover of any kind.

Specially in a country like Thailand where you can buy your own drugs straight from the pharmacist.

Accident insurance is a totally different item to health care insurance.

You don't seem to know which you are talking about.

Yes, it is easy to buy drugs at a pharmacy, but what about a serious illness that demands an immediate hospitalisation? Are most people going to be able to meet the not insignificant costs? I think not, when they are facing literally several hundreds of thousands of baht for the OR, surgeon's fees, anaesthetist's fees, room charges, nursing charges, post-op care... It makes the premium look like small potatoes.

How often does that happen in one's life?

I'm over 60 and the answer is never so far.

I'm not bothered about trying to live forever, 60 will do, if it comes to it.

Health insurance is a uniquely American curse, other countries really don't bother that much.

Edited April 5, 2016 by BritManToo

[bangkokjulia]

Never say never

[johnatong]

I am fit and have no pre-existing conditions. I have never made a health insurance claim.

I am now in my 60's and the insurance company is doing its best to get rid of my custom. Every year the premiums increase at a rate which defy's any rational explanation.

[neverdie]

I too agree that anyone over 70 finds it difficult to purchase affordable travel insurance. What I object to is to tourists who head over to Thailand for their cheap two week holiday, and brag about the fact that they don't have travel insurance. Then the sh1t hits the fan, and they find themselves laid up in a Thai hospital. Inevitably, their relatives back home have to bail them out. It's a joke. If people can't afford travel insurance, they should be precluded from travelling.

These dipsh1ts should have the sense to see they should not travel anywhere without insurance. What is even more worrying is when a habitual tourist who is a very knowledgeable Thailand expert (allegedly). He fell off his hired scooter and acquired some impressive scrapes on a highway some distance from where he was staying. Some of the cuts and gouges to his lower limbs and feet were quite deep (the fool only wore flipflops when riding the scooter).

Did he get taken off in an ambulance? No, he did not.

Did he go to a hospital ER? No, he did not.

Injured and in shock, he rode the scooter back to the hotel where he was staying and got help from the hotel staff. After five days in his hotel room he emerged patched up and still in considerable pain, not unsurprisingly. Anyway, he was lucky; he was able to go back to his own country at the end of his holiday without too much difficulty; many uninsured can't.

Why did he not go straight to an ER when reaching the first town or city on his route? Surely, this would have been one of the first actions of someone who had accident / health insurance?

What would have happened if he had been left incapacitated at the roadside, or if hed contracted a serious infection from his intimate contact with the road?

Surely a 'worldly-wise' Thailand 'expert' wouldnt travel without adequate medical cover, would he? Oh c'mon, he wouldn't, would he??

I know of this exact story, I spoke to one of the guys that saw the accident happen. Apparently when he fell from the bike he looked like a beach ball bouncing down the roadway.

What a fool but a funny story never the less.

[villagefarang]

I suppose I am one of those brainless idiots but I have no plans to change. No doubt the insurance companies would have appreciated receiving money from me over the last 40 years or so but I wouldn’t have gotten anything out of the bargain. I am in my 60s now and the only insurance I have ever had was for driving but there again I have made no claims.

For some life is a dangerous and unhealthy proposition, only compounded by living in Thailand. I probably spend more time worrying about quality of life and living too long. I personally have no desire to spend time in hospitals or undergo major surgeries. When my time comes, I know I have made the most of the time I have had, and there will be no regrets. I think people should be allowed to make their own decisions, and yes, even their own mistakes.

[Rob8891]

Sorry if you took that personally, VF. Surely the whole point of having any form of insurance lies in the hope of never needing to use it, but if that need arises, one can be in a better position to deal with matters. I respect your comment that people should be allowed to make their own decisions (& mistakes too), but recently I have seen quite a few examples of the agonies friends have gone through - some with health insurance and some without. Without doubt, I prefer to be in the former category. Whether I'll be able to afford that when I hit my 70s, I don't know, but I'll make damned sure I will try to prepare for that.

Several folk have mentioned that they're in their 60s and that's good enough for them. I'm in my 60s too, and for me that isn't good enough or far enough: there is still a lot I want to do, see, experience. Additionally, with all due respect to those who have said that now, I think they might underestimate just how powerful the instinct of survival / self-preservation.

What happens if, having decided not to have health insurance for whatever reason, one is in screaming agony following a major illness or after some external force? I know of one guy who, after an serious accident, has medical bills of 3 or 4 million baht, with more to come in all probability. I won't give any more details for obvious reasons. How would people deal with that sort of debt without insurance? What would their quality of life be?

[villagefarang]

It was not so much that I took this topic personally but I do take issue with people insisting that everyone do things their way. I would never insult those who don’t choose to live the way I do, or insist they do it my way. That authoritarian attitude seems to predominate on this forum. We all come from different backgrounds and live in a foreign country, yet we tend to be incensed went others don’t believe what we believe or act as we act. I have chosen not to be my brother’s keeper and as much as possible stay out of their way. That works for me but may not appeal to others.

I am fairly calculating and have never been at the mercy of instinct. I figure the executive functions of the brain are there to be used to control the more primitive aspects of our nature. I have no desire to cling to an agonizing or invalid state of existence.

Edited April 6, 2016 by villagefarang

[1BADDAT]

I too agree that anyone over 70 finds it difficult to purchase affordable travel insurance. What I object to is to tourists who head over to Thailand for their cheap two week holiday, and brag about the fact that they don't have travel insurance. Then the sh1t hits the fan, and they find themselves laid up in a Thai hospital. Inevitably, their relatives back home have to bail them out. It's a joke. If people can't afford travel insurance, they should be precluded from travelling.

You have heard people brag about not having travel insurance? This doesn't seem like anything to brag about.

[BritManToo]

What happens if, having decided not to have health insurance for whatever reason, one is in screaming agony following a major illness or after some external force? I know of one guy who, after an serious accident, has medical bills of 3 or 4 million baht, with more to come in all probability. I won't give any more details for obvious reasons. How would people deal with that sort of debt without insurance? What would their quality of life be?

Health insurance doesn't prevent 'screaming agony', it merely prolongs it.

[BookMan]

Comprehensive travel insurance is a no-brainer.

For a couple of hundred dollars I can cover my family worldwide for a month or two.

Some credit cards come with free travel insurance, as long as u book the flight with the credit card. Worth checking out anyway

[sipi]

Comprehensive travel insurance is a no-brainer.

For a couple of hundred dollars I can cover my family worldwide for a month or two.

Some credit cards come with free travel insurance, as long as u book the flight with the credit card. Worth checking out anyway

Yep. And not only medical insurance. One delayed connecting flight or a stolen camera can cost more than the premiums (if you do pay).

[laolover88]

Country of origin?

I use Staysure UK. I'm over 70. Previous medical problems covered. 100GBP a month : peanuts. My children have BUPA Global all countries including USA 60GBP a month peanuts too.

[Rob8891]

I used a similar annual travel policy the first year I came out - it was 450GBP and I was 61. I can't remember the name of the company now. They weren't too keen on doing back-to-back annual policies, however.

[dick dasterdly]

I joined Bupa UK when I was about 20, and only claimed a couple of times for small amounts as I got older - when the NHS GP blew me off, until he found out I had private insurance... The privately paid specialists diagnosed my problems, chronic but not life-threatening.

By the time I moved to Thailand (and a Bupa Int policy) the premiums had gone up to around 2,000 p.a., but this was fine until financially (and personally) things went v wrong... So I changed to Bupa Thailand.

They tried to exclude all existing problems, until I involved Bupa Int who confirmed that they happened whilst I was a member. Bupa Thailand eventually accepted this, but as I could only afford (at the time) their cheapest plan made a policy condition that when I increased the benefits under the policy, this would not apply to my chronic conditions....

A year later I was in desperate straits financially, so didn't renew the policy. 3 months later, being financially secure again, I wanted to renew my Bupa Int policy as it was obvious Bupa Thailand would do anything possible to find a way out of paying a claim, whereas Int and UK had never tried to do so.

It came as a suprise to me when Bupa Int not only doubled my premium, but also excluded all my 'pre-existing' conditions because I'd missed 3 months payments after being insured with them for 30 years...

Bearing in mind pretty much everything was excluded (as it could always be blamed on a pre-existing condition), why on earth would I want to pay them 2,000 + sterling for ignoring my previous history with them and treating me as a new customer??!

Sorry to go on about this, but I'm seriously pissed off and whilst previously I'd recommended Bupa to everyone - nowadays I know they are just a typical 'the rules say this, and I must follow them' company .

[JAS21]

I had PPP via work for 25 years. When we left the UK had to come out of the company scheme and go onto an international plan ...it only paid for in hospital and things like CT Scan.

The 2014 renewal was 8200gbp for both of us. And it would rise about 15% each year.

So we devided to self insure and put some money aside each year.

We use the Government Hospitals and go to the extra clinics.

I suppose that we are fortunate and can afford a big bill.

In the two years that we haven't had insurance we would only have been able to reclaim about 14,000thb.

Edited April 6, 2016 by JAS21

[bangkokjulia]

bangkokjulia:

"I too agree that anyone over 70 finds it difficult to purchase affordable travel insurance. What I object to is to tourists who head over to Thailand for their cheap two week holiday, and brag about the fact that they don't have travel insurance. Then the sh1t hits the fan, and they find themselves laid up in a Thai hospital. Inevitably, their relatives back home have to bail them out. It's a joke. If people can't afford travel insurance, they should be precluded from travelling."

1BADDAT:

"You have heard people brag about not having travel insurance? This doesn't seem like anything to brag about."

Of course it's not anything to brag about-but brag they have. Oxygen thieves breathe-doesn't mean they should.