Thailand's 'F' word: Offensive or harmless?

[rgs2001uk]

OK Bule in Indonesia means albino, so not very nice.

My wife was doing an exam in the UK, to be able to serve alcohol, the woman conducting the test was a middle class thai, educated at one of the two top university's in Thailand, in conversation, I asked her was she married to a farang, she proceed to give me a tongue lashing, telling me to not use words that were derogatory & learn the meaning of words before I used them. She also said, only uneducated Thais would use such words,I didn't tell her that my wife worked for one of the biggest TV firms in Thailand & all her colleagues, all university educated, use the term, as I've spent time at the film ? studios.

So safe to say, I'm still none the wiser lol

She also said, only uneducated Thais would use such words,

I am inclined to believe her, more a loso language used by loso people, more suited to the local market.

I watch the news on television, I never hear the word farang used.

I go to offices in the CBD, I never hear the word farang used.

I go to gov't building, again never hear the term.

I go to hospitals, never hear the term.

For those struggling with the word, where are you actually hearing it being used?

[rgs2001uk]

In all but the most formal of situations Thais refrain from calling people by their proper names. It simply isn't the way they typically communicate and once again they are not little brown Farangs. They have their own customs and traditions. They use nicknames and or a myriad of descriptive titles when referring to other people. Farang just happens to be one of those descriptive shorthand titles they use for convenience.

I hear people complain that new arrivals in their country should learn the language, laws and customs of their new country. Then they move to Thailand and again insist that the locals should learn their language, laws and customs. It just makes me laugh when I hear such arrogance and hypocrisy. Control your own behavior and work on improving your own language abilities because your efforts to control others isn't going anywhere.

VF - The opening article is a reasoned piece of writing about this ongoing debate. Your second paragraph virtually suggests that anybody who disagrees about the use of the word 'Farang' is pig headed and ignorant and needs to learn more about Thailand, i am sure this is far away from the truth and distracts from a sensible debate. A few paragraphs later you go on to click the 'like' button for a glib response from a serial troll on this site.

From the best evidence i can amass i am inclined to think that the word 'Farang' is more akin to the word 'n.....' than to the word black person. If this is the case then i think it's usage should be given more consideration by Westerners and Thai alike. I think in time the word wlll follow the same route as 'n......' but i doubt i will still be alive.

From the best evidence i can amass

What evidence would that be?

I hope its not based on the rantings on here, usually posted by farangs with no undertsanding of the language.

[rgs2001uk]

At post #263.

There are some of us willing to stand up for our rights

What rights would that be exactly?

but sadly those tourists and usually newly arrived retirees

Not belonging to either of those categories, I am unable to answer for them.

I belong to the, can speak read and write category, its obvious from some of the replies on here, who can actually can speak Thai and who cannot.

[SussexExpat]

On the whole, it doesn't bother me. However, there are times when it really pisses me off.

Example. Get pulled over by the police at a routine check point. Wind the window down and the lovely Thai policeman comes over, looks in the car and the first thing he says to the wife is, "when farang go home".

[SoiBiker]

On the whole, it doesn't bother me. However, there are times when it really pisses me off.

Example. Get pulled over by the police at a routine check point. Wind the window down and the lovely Thai policeman comes over, looks in the car and the first thing he says to the wife is, "when farang go home".

Perhaps he wanted to know when your extension of stay expired?

[Squeegee]

........It is better than Thais saying YOU YOU when they speak to me.

The Thai word คุณ (khun) means both 'you' and 'mister'.

When someone calls out "YOU YOU", he is not being rude, he is trying to be polite.

Edit: ........most of the time

That's an excuse. Thais do not say "Khun, khun" in Thai like they say "You, you" in English.

[rogeroc]

From the best evidence i can amass i am inclined to think that the word 'Farang' is more akin to the word 'n.....' than to the word black person. If this is the case then i think it's usage should be given more consideration by Westerners and Thai alike. I think in time the word wlll follow the same route as 'n......' but i doubt i will still be alive.

From the best evidence i can amass

What evidence would that be?

I hope its not based on the rantings on here, usually posted by farangs with no undertsanding of the language.

Fair question, i did not want to write at great length. Primarily by listening and observing Thais and how and in what context they use the word. Obviously reading about he derivation as well but i find that inconclusive. The views expressed on TV are relevant as well. As an example very few posters happy with the word 'Farang' back up their views with sensible evidence. |The majority chose to attack those they disagree with by comments like 'Get a life' / 'you are stupid' / 'you are a guest in the country' / 'leave Thailand if you don't like i't etc.

Edited April 14, 2016 by rogeroc

[BritManToo]

Bottom line , people find it offensive. So that should be enough for the word to be fazed out. Where to start ? this site stopping.using It as name for one of its forums

You really think a handful of uppity farangs is reason enough to remove a word from the Thai language?

Don't be silly.

That seemed to work for a few uppity ni^^%rs and the English language.

[dick dasterdly]

I prefer when u don't use put downs as a form of arguement, and.yeah I do expect cultures to realise its causing offence. And its should be led by supposedly refined westerners whose own societies have grown and benefited

from various cultural intergrations and have taken stances on such

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

But the culture is not "causing offense"....except among a tiny minority of the seriously ignorant. Look, I've personally met literally hundreds of farangs in Thailand. I've yet to come across even one who is offended by the term "farang." This nonsense only seems to occur in cyberspace from anonymous keyboard warriors. You guys should seriously get a life.

Interesting to know that you think those who dislike being called 'farang' are "seriously ignorant". In future we'll obviously refer to you when considering anything to do with Thailand....

The whole 'put down' thing came about when Soi Biker said "Seems pretty needy to expect everyone to like you" in response to those of us who posted that for various reasons, we dislike being called 'farang'.

Nobody had suggested or even hinted that they wanted 'everyone to like them', so it was used as a classic deflection to infer this was the case.

You are taking this even further by saying that we are seriously ignorant and need to get a life - unlike you of course, who is happy to spend time insulting other posters on this forum...

Everyone has their own opinion depending on their own experience - as is shown on this thread.

[SoiBiker]

Bottom line , people find it offensive. So that should be enough for the word to be fazed out. Where to start ? this site stopping.using It as name for one of its forums

You really think a handful of uppity farangs is reason enough to remove a word from the Thai language?

Don't be silly.

That seemed to work for a few uppity ni^^%rs and the English language.

The two terms are hardly comparable.

[SoiBiker]

The main argument here seems to be that farang is an offensive word because Thais sometimes use it whilst speaking in a derogatory manner about westerners.

By that logic, one only has to read a few threads on here to conclude that 'Thai' is an equally offensive term, if not more so, based on the way some westerners use it.

Edited April 14, 2016 by SoiBiker

[dick dasterdly]

I have lived in this village for 9 years. Most of the children I have known from birth and get smiles from them. Most of them know my name. Many refer to me as Dta Kit. (They can't say Keith)

Then, almost inevitably, there comes a day when the children see you and with a mischievous expression on their faces say the single word "Farang", sometimes following me and repeating "Farang" over and over. They obviously know that they are being naughty. There must be a reason for them to suddenly start doing this. Any ideas why?

Just re-posting this to point out how some believe 'farang' is an entirely innocent description - and yet kids obviously find it funny and naughty.

Come to your own conclusion as to the reason for this.

[balo]

The farang word is harmless. We can close this thread now.

[rogeroc]

The two terms are hardly comparable.

SB - Can you explain why the 2 terms are not comparable, it may help give credibility to your viewpoint.

[SoiBiker]

The two terms are hardly comparable.

SB - Can you explain why the 2 terms are not comparable, it may help give credibility to your viewpoint.

I find it incredulous that any adult with even a vague knowledge of recent history need ask this question.

[rgs2001uk]

From the best evidence i can amass i am inclined to think that the word 'Farang' is more akin to the word 'n.....' than to the word black person. If this is the case then i think it's usage should be given more consideration by Westerners and Thai alike. I think in time the word wlll follow the same route as 'n......' but i doubt i will still be alive.

From the best evidence i can amass

What evidence would that be?

I hope its not based on the rantings on here, usually posted by farangs with no undertsanding of the language.

Fair question, i did not want to write at great length. Primarily by listening and observing Thais and how and in what context they use the word. Obviously reading about he derivation as well but i find that inconclusive. The views expressed on TV are relevant as well. As an example very few posters happy with the word 'Farang' back up their views with sensible evidence. |The majority chose to attack those they disagree with by comments like 'Get a life' / 'you are stupid' / 'you are a guest in the country' / 'leave Thailand if you don't like i't etc.

Fair enough answer,

how and in what context they use the word.

Now we get to the nitty gritty, of it all, its not the word itself thats offensive, but the context in which its used.

I have no problems with the word, but will back up with a couple of recent experiences of the word.

Was talking in Thai with a woman neighbour, we were discussing food, I told her I like to eat southern food, kua kling, pat satow etc etc.

She said to me, neuk wa farang gin ahan pet mai ben.

A young neice was at 7 she was buying whisky for me, but had forgotten the name, she phoned me and asked the name, she said she didnt know that name, I told her to tell the girl in 7, ao lao farang sung deum, she came back with the bottle of Ballantines I wanted.

I may be missing something here, but in what way was the use offensive?

For all the guys that hear this in bars, be thankful you dont understand the more derogatory terms they use for you.

Care to give us a couple of examples of where you have heard this used in a derogatory context recently?

[dick dasterdly]

The main argument here seems to be that farang is an offensive word because Thais sometimes use it whilst speaking in a derogatory manner about westerners.

By that logic, one only has to read a few threads on here to conclude that 'Thai' is an equally offensive term, if not more so, based on the way some westerners use it.

No - the main argument (IMO) is that is used carelessly even when we are present, and that indicates a slightly dismissive attitude - which some of us find a bit annoying, especially when we are paying them.

Not that it matters much, we choose to live here even though we know that (as foreigners) we are considered inferior - hence the easy use of 'farang'.

Edit - Come to think of it, I've never heard a professional Thai (doctor, vet) use the term within my hearing. They've obviously been educated abroad, but it would be interesting to know if they use it when we can't hear them!

Edited April 14, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[dick dasterdly]

The farang word is harmless. We can close this thread now.

Thank god Balo (another with infinite knowledge of Thailand) has spoken!

I'm sure the mods will treat his pearls of wisdom with due deference.

[villagefarang]

If you think Thais view Farangs as inferior you must have done something extremely offensive to them or hang out in some pretty bad areas. We are placed on a pedestal and treated with great deference by the majority of the populous. I have always felt lucky to be a farang in Thailand and have been treated very well during my forty year tenure in this country.??

Edited April 14, 2016 by villagefarang

[BritManToo]

Bottom line , people find it offensive. So that should be enough for the word to be fazed out. Where to start ? this site stopping.using It as name for one of its forums

You really think a handful of uppity farangs is reason enough to remove a word from the Thai language?

Don't be silly.

That seemed to work for a few uppity ni^^%rs and the English language.

The two terms are hardly comparable.

One term was used in a mainly white country to put down and dehumanize black people.

The other was used in a mainly brown country to put down and dehumanize white people.

Seems comparable to me.

[SoiBiker]

It's always funny when people who voluntarily spend their time in areas famous for prostitutes, hustlers and rip off merchants complain that the locals look down on them and only want their money.

[BritManToo]

We are placed on a pedestal and treated with great deference by the majority of the populous.

Not by our General, who seems to make an anti-white statement nearly every week.

[BritManToo]

It's always funny when people who voluntarily spend their time in areas famous for prostitutes, hustlers and rip off merchants complain that the locals look down on them and only want their money.

Chiang Mai is famous for prostitutes, hustlers and rip off merchants?

No more so than Bangkok, as far as I can see.

[dick dasterdly]

If you think Thais view Farangs as inferior you must have done something extremely offensive to them or hang out in some pretty bad areas. We are placed on a pedestal and treated with great deference by the majority of the populous. I have always felt lucky to be a farang in Thailand and have been treated very well during my forty year tenure in this country.??

Whereas my (far fewer) years here make me think we are only 'placed on a pedestal' when they want a LOT of money from us. Different experiences obviously.

Believe me, I wouldn't dare to do anything offensive as I'm v aware that I'm a foreigner and go out of my way to (nearly) always be nice. Someone has to really 'take the piss' before I would be abrasive - and even then, never downright rude.

As for 'hanging out in bad areas' ! I've been to a bar here 3 times in 10 years.

I think I'm generally liked by the locals I deal with here regularly, and obviously they like to talk and have a laugh with me the more I get to know them - but that is just the obvious, getting to know the person rather than the stereotype 'farang' in their minds.

Edit - Sorry, I've just realised that I've missed the main point of your post re. why I think we are thought of as inferior. That belief comes from the casual way it is used (even when I am there and they know my name) and the way I hear it shouted to each other when talking about me at the market or whatever. Not to mention the post I re-posted above about kids following a known foreigner in a village shouting 'farang, farang'.

Edited April 14, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[Kenny202]

I just think the Thai language and maybe other Asian languages are just very basic. They don't lard out their sentences with niceties, pronouns etc. If it's a tractor it's a tractor. If it's a farang it's a farang. Just the way it is so why worry about it

Edited April 14, 2016 by Kenny202

[Agent Sumo]

We are placed on a pedestal and treated with great deference by the majority of the populous.

Not by our General, who seems to make an anti-white statement nearly every week.

If it's really as bad as your interminable protestations would seem to suggest, why are you still here?

Does the ability to pay to have sex with a reasonably attractive partner really make up for the abject misery that hearing the word farang so obviously causes you?

If I felt that I was being verbally/racially-abused everywhere I went, I'd board a plane at the earliest opportunity

Edited April 14, 2016 by Agent Sumo

[BritManToo]

I just think the Thai language and maybe other languages are just very basic. They don't lard out their sentences with niceties, pronouns etc. If it's a tractor it's a tractor. If it's a farang it's a farang. Just the way it is so why worry about it

But the Thai language does insist on a suitable honorific in front of a persons name.

So while one could argue that 'Khun Farang' would be polite, there's not much wiggle room for the apologists with 'Farang'.

Edited April 14, 2016 by BritManToo

[Berkshire]

I prefer when u don't use put downs as a form of arguement, and.yeah I do expect cultures to realise its causing offence. And its should be led by supposedly refined westerners whose own societies have grown and benefited

from various cultural intergrations and have taken stances on such

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

But the culture is not "causing offense"....except among a tiny minority of the seriously ignorant. Look, I've personally met literally hundreds of farangs in Thailand. I've yet to come across even one who is offended by the term "farang." This nonsense only seems to occur in cyberspace from anonymous keyboard warriors. You guys should seriously get a life.

Interesting to know that you think those who dislike being called 'farang' are "seriously ignorant". In future we'll obviously refer to you when considering anything to do with Thailand....

The whole 'put down' thing came about when Soi Biker said "Seems pretty needy to expect everyone to like you" in response to those of us who posted that for various reasons, we dislike being called 'farang'.

Nobody had suggested or even hinted that they wanted 'everyone to like them', so it was used as a classic deflection to infer this was the case.

You are taking this even further by saying that we are seriously ignorant and need to get a life - unlike you of course, who is happy to spend time insulting other posters on this forum...

Everyone has their own opinion depending on their own experience - as is shown on this thread.

Ok, so it's about "your own experiences." Why is it that your experiences differ so much from mine? Yours largely negative, mine largely positive. Hmmmmm.

[BritManToo]

Ok, so it's about "your own experiences." Why is it that your experiences differ so much from mine? Yours largely negative, mine largely positive. Hmmmmm.

Probably because you're an apologist wearing rose coloured glasses and pretending to be more Thai than Thai.

The rest of us live real lives in the real world.

Maybe you should change your nick to 'Uncle Tom'.

He would have been happy with 'farang' too.

Edited April 14, 2016 by BritManToo

[villagefarang]

When I watch the occasional cycling tour event and see the fans acting like idiots, running, shouting and gesturing at the cyclists as they ride by, it sometimes makes me think of Thais enthusiastically trying to get the attention of a farang. Perhaps it is not because they hate you, but because they admire you.