Zero Dollar tours damage Thai tourism industry

[Fairynuff]

Thais and numbers usually don't add up, 305 billion Baht????

Lets assume that the package they buy is 500 US$, that would mean that about 17.4 million tourists would be fooled by these dodgy tour operators!

That's just a small city in china

Edited April 12, 2016 by Fairynuff

[mesterm]

A BIT OFF TOPIC

And as we speak a delegation of 1,000 Australian business leaders are on a week long seance in China wooing them for new business and tourism opportunities .

Let's hope someone at the ATC has been watching Thailand and the other nearby countries who have been totally "romanced" by these shrewd operators.

Good to see the Royals in India this week too - could this be the next big destination for the Chinese - OR do the Chinese share the same love of Indian as the Thais??

I think the Indians would be too "black" for Chinese tastes.

[mesterm]

Well well well.. what did you expect ???

TAT did you not want this.... you planned for it , you got it and now you are complaining ????

You set your targets at achieving a record level of tourist numbers and this has been facilitated by planeloads of Chinese and Russians coming in on prepaid overseas carrier flights with accommodation pre booked and paid overseas , prepaid meals and shopping deals that link back to the overseas organisers....

What did you expect when your definitive target measure has been simple number of tourists........no measure of economic value added in this whatsoever

Whats that i hear ..... Ohh you want planeloads of value adding tourists.........ahhhh well that involves a different marketing strategy and plan....

Sometimes to those who dont think about cause and reaction the desired result may not actually be what was wanted, once achieved..... in a country essentially bereft of causative critical analysis thinking it is no wonder that we now see lament that the high tourist numbers add very little to the tourism bottom line.... reap what you sow TAT and unfortunately allot of the seeds you planted are very low yielding indeed

Do first, think later.

[casualbiker]

makes the TAT figures look wonderful, as if that Kobkarn is doing a proper job. Thailand will rue the day they got rid of backpackers to court the Chinese zero dollar tourists.

I'd like to agree with you, but only the poor people that worked in backpacker places will regret. The people that make the decisions don't deal in the few thousand baht generated by 300 a night places and many of the people that owned the 300 a night places have sold out so that big resorts could be built instead. Even the ones that still have the cheap places upped the prices to stupid heights ie the dump I used to stay in in Pattaya for 600 a night ( with breakfast ) now charges over 800 for the same dump- I laughed in their faces when the receptionists informed me of the new prices and walked off. Sadly most pay the ridiculous prices, which only encourages other dumps to up their prices as well.

"Sadly most pay the REDICULOUS prices" ??. Ridiculously cheap maybe. You do realize a hotel is a business that is supposed to make a profit? It is not a community service for the cheap tourist. Why is it sad?

Firstly, the people that ran 300 a night places made a profit and secondly if you wish to deprive less well off people the ability to visit Thailand I have no wish to communicate with you further.

But that was before the minimum wage increase and inflation increases..

[Classic Ray]

I don't think investing in infrastructure like decent roads and pavements removes any chance of fun in Thailand. You only need to look at Hong Kong to see a place with decent infrastructure where there is still abundant fun to be had even if the mainland rulers are trying to assimilate the place.So Thailand could do more on development of infrastructure and removal of corruption, but general apathy and specific protection of the interests of the elite prevents it.

[Minnehaha]

In the early 2000's, not so long ago... back when the number of tourists to Thailand was around 8 million and growing year on year at double digits, and there were no 5 star hotels in Chiang Mai ... and the future was clear. TAT did nothing, which is understandable because TAT is not the dept responsible for tourism in country, but rather promoting tourism abroad. The department of Sports and Tourism, did nothing either.

The greatest % contribution to tourism dollars came from MICE - meetings, conventions, exhibitions, and expositions. At the same time, Singapore was investing heavily in this sector as well as casinos and more. This segment of the tourism sector has grown in Thailand since then, but not nearly at the same rate as other segments. This segment spends more per day than any other targeted segment. Wouldn't that be the definition of quality tourist?

Data from TAT has always been suspect - it is from the TM-7 cards at the airport, where everybody tells the truth. Japanese who come here for business on a tourist visa only to spend their time doing business are counted as tourists. Same for Malaysians. Malaysia has been the largest tourist visitor to Thailand since the beginning of time until around 2007. I mention Chiang mai as it is perhaps the easiest to see as an example of how tourism affects Thailand. How many 5 star hotels are there now?

This begs another question: What is the status of star rating system in Thailand? Is it using an internationally accredited system? Are there checks? Again with Chiang mai... what happened to the Holiday Inn? The Westin? Why did they lose their brand names? The answer is that the Brand company stripped it from the management of the property because they could not maintain standards.

While Chiang mai officials knew there were plans for 6 high end properties under construction or slated to be built back in 2004, did they invest in even a decent Information Booth at the airport? Does Chiang Mai have a decent tourism Information Booth in the arrival lounge? Someone put one there back in 2004 and it was hilarious and sad. The kids inside could not understand simple English. How are the taxis doing? Are the meters running? How about the red buses in CM? Why has it been impossible to get rid of them or decrease them? If you want to draw people for those 5 star (and 4 star etc.) properties do you really expect them to hop on a red songtaew?

Regarding Farang ... the number who come here for business or longer stays but are counted as tourists is also inflating tourist figures. The remaining contributors to tourism figures come from places like Russia, Vietnam, and China. These nationalities are probably true tourists for the most part, and are not spending nearly the figure per head per day that MICE folks spend. More people spending less per day is not the direction one wants to go. Whether the country has the ability to direct policy to address this is obvious.

As long as Thailand continues to let tourism develop with no planning at all it will always develop into the mess that is CM today, and the mess that is Pattaya, and Phuket downtown, and so on and on and on. Same with Bangkok. No city planning leads to the streets in the mess they are today.

Motorcades continue to work very well. The police are effective at shutting off roads and moving VIP around town. So there is a segment that is well served and always will be. Thai banks are a joke around the world, but monopolies here. The newspapers are printing what they want people to know, including the article referenced above, not the deeper story, not the reality.

I have to disagree with your analysis that C M is a mess today because of tourism. It was a mess in 1974, long before the mass tourism scene, and is still the same mess. Thais do not seem to want to make things better, and perhaps that is because the money that should be invested in infrastructure goes elsewhere. Even when they do invest in infrastructure, they have the ability to make things worse, not better ie the Pattaya walkway has been a disaster. Also they have done nothing in 25 years to improve the traffic. Even the same broken pavements are in use today as in the early 90's.

BTW does anyone want Thailand to be a sanuk devoid expensive, boring hole like Singapore has become, which would be the result of the improvements that so many seem to desire on this forum website ( I do remember when there was a bit of fun to be had in Singapore, back in the 70's, alas no longer. )

let me clarify ... I did not say CM is a mess because of Tourism - it is a mess because of lack of planning. I was there in 1990 and it was a mess then, but much different. Any city with no management but which grows in size gets messy. The point of the comment was that everyone saw this coming. CM had no excuses. It was clear the number of foreigners and Thais even more so, would invest in and move to CM as far back as 1990s when things were booming. No planning was done, except for a ring road, called the Super Highway. Before that was finished, they needed 2 additional ones! Still had time to build a night safari, and a 700 year old stadium that is useless, the two of them.

the point is the planning was never there. and tourism and people were on the way. everybody saw it. nothing was done about how to handle it.

[Minnehaha]

In the early 2000's, not so long ago... back when the number of tourists to Thailand was around 8 million and growing year on year at double digits, and there were no 5 star hotels in Chiang Mai ... and the future was clear. TAT did nothing, which is understandable because TAT is not the dept responsible for tourism in country, but rather promoting tourism abroad. The department of Sports and Tourism, did nothing either.

The greatest % contribution to tourism dollars came from MICE - meetings, conventions, exhibitions, and expositions. At the same time, Singapore was investing heavily in this sector as well as casinos and more. This segment of the tourism sector has grown in Thailand since then, but not nearly at the same rate as other segments. This segment spends more per day than any other targeted segment. Wouldn't that be the definition of quality tourist?

Data from TAT has always been suspect - it is from the TM-7 cards at the airport, where everybody tells the truth. Japanese who come here for business on a tourist visa only to spend their time doing business are counted as tourists. Same for Malaysians. Malaysia has been the largest tourist visitor to Thailand since the beginning of time until around 2007. I mention Chiang mai as it is perhaps the easiest to see as an example of how tourism affects Thailand. How many 5 star hotels are there now?

This begs another question: What is the status of star rating system in Thailand? Is it using an internationally accredited system? Are there checks? Again with Chiang mai... what happened to the Holiday Inn? The Westin? Why did they lose their brand names? The answer is that the Brand company stripped it from the management of the property because they could not maintain standards.

While Chiang mai officials knew there were plans for 6 high end properties under construction or slated to be built back in 2004, did they invest in even a decent Information Booth at the airport? Does Chiang Mai have a decent tourism Information Booth in the arrival lounge? Someone put one there back in 2004 and it was hilarious and sad. The kids inside could not understand simple English. How are the taxis doing? Are the meters running? How about the red buses in CM? Why has it been impossible to get rid of them or decrease them? If you want to draw people for those 5 star (and 4 star etc.) properties do you really expect them to hop on a red songtaew?

Regarding Farang ... the number who come here for business or longer stays but are counted as tourists is also inflating tourist figures. The remaining contributors to tourism figures come from places like Russia, Vietnam, and China. These nationalities are probably true tourists for the most part, and are not spending nearly the figure per head per day that MICE folks spend. More people spending less per day is not the direction one wants to go. Whether the country has the ability to direct policy to address this is obvious.

As long as Thailand continues to let tourism develop with no planning at all it will always develop into the mess that is CM today, and the mess that is Pattaya, and Phuket downtown, and so on and on and on. Same with Bangkok. No city planning leads to the streets in the mess they are today.

Motorcades continue to work very well. The police are effective at shutting off roads and moving VIP around town. So there is a segment that is well served and always will be. Thai banks are a joke around the world, but monopolies here. The newspapers are printing what they want people to know, including the article referenced above, not the deeper story, not the reality.

I have to disagree with your analysis that C M is a mess today because of tourism. It was a mess in 1974, long before the mass tourism scene, and is still the same mess. Thais do not seem to want to make things better, and perhaps that is because the money that should be invested in infrastructure goes elsewhere. Even when they do invest in infrastructure, they have the ability to make things worse, not better ie the Pattaya walkway has been a disaster. Also they have done nothing in 25 years to improve the traffic. Even the same broken pavements are in use today as in the early 90's.

BTW does anyone want Thailand to be a sanuk devoid expensive, boring hole like Singapore has become, which would be the result of the improvements that so many seem to desire on this forum website ( I do remember when there was a bit of fun to be had in Singapore, back in the 70's, alas no longer. )

let me clarify ... I did not say CM is a mess because of Tourism - it is a mess because of lack of planning. I was there in 1990 and it was a mess then, but much different. Any city with no management but which grows in size gets messy. The point of the comment was that everyone saw this coming. CM had no excuses. It was clear the number of foreigners and Thais even more so, would invest in and move to CM as far back as 1990s when things were booming. No planning was done, except for a ring road, called the Super Highway. Before that was finished, they needed 2 additional ones! Still had time to build a night safari, and a 700 year old stadium that is useless, the two of them.

the point is the planning was never there. and tourism and people were on the way. everybody saw it. nothing was done about how to handle it.

[Dukeleto]

"They were instead transferred to other companies operating in Thailand that are associated with their ‘Zero Dollar’ counterparts. The tourists were later pressured into purchasing expensive products or services by these secondary companies, in an attempt to extract unreasonable sums and profits."

"The Major General said most of the money generated from this type of business fell into the hands of foreign tour operators rather than the Thai tourism industry."

How so if the money is extorted by the Thai based companies? Ohhhh sorry they sent most of the money back to the foreign based counterparts? Silly me.

[deecee10]

makes the TAT figures look wonderful, as if that Kobkarn is doing a proper job. Thailand will rue the day they got rid of backpackers to court the Chinese zero dollar tourists.

I'd like to agree with you, but only the poor people that worked in backpacker places will regret. The people that make the decisions don't deal in the few thousand baht generated by 300 a night places and many of the people that owned the 300 a night places have sold out so that big resorts could be built instead. Even the ones that still have the cheap places upped the prices to stupid heights ie the dump I used to stay in in Pattaya for 600 a night ( with breakfast ) now charges over 800 for the same dump- I laughed in their faces when the receptionists informed me of the new prices and walked off. Sadly most pay the ridiculous prices, which only encourages other dumps to up their prices as well.

A point that many fail to grasp is that today's back-packing young Western tourists e.g. students travelling during a university 'gap year' will evolve into well-educated people with decent well-paid jobs who will be tomorrow's affluent spenders. When they come back in a few years time they will fit the Thai profile of 'high class' tourists.

Of course that's if they bother to come back.

[Roomuck]

makes the TAT figures look wonderful, as if that Kobkarn is doing a proper job. Thailand will rue the day they got rid of backpackers to court the Chinese zero dollar tourists.

I'd like to agree with you, but only the poor people that worked in backpacker places will regret. The people that make the decisions don't deal in the few thousand baht generated by 300 a night places and many of the people that owned the 300 a night places have sold out so that big resorts could be built instead. Even the ones that still have the cheap places upped the prices to stupid heights ie the dump I used to stay in in Pattaya for 600 a night ( with breakfast ) now charges over 800 for the same dump- I laughed in their faces when the receptionists informed me of the new prices and walked off. Sadly most pay the ridiculous prices, which only encourages other dumps to up their prices as well.

"Sadly most pay the REDICULOUS prices" ??. Ridiculously cheap maybe. You do realize a hotel is a business that is supposed to make a profit? It is not a community service for the cheap tourist. Why is it sad?

Firstly, the people that ran 300 a night places made a profit and secondly if you wish to deprive less well off people the ability to visit Thailand I have no wish to communicate with you further.

But that was before the minimum wage increase and inflation increases..

Too much for Charlie, he just laughs in the Thai receptionists faces. Rude AND cheap. I wonder where he stays in Pattaya since he only wants to pay 300 baht with breakfast. At the temple?

[craigt3365]

"They were instead transferred to other companies operating in Thailand that are associated with their ‘Zero Dollar’ counterparts. The tourists were later pressured into purchasing expensive products or services by these secondary companies, in an attempt to extract unreasonable sums and profits."

"The Major General said most of the money generated from this type of business fell into the hands of foreign tour operators rather than the Thai tourism industry."

How so if the money is extorted by the Thai based companies? Ohhhh sorry they sent most of the money back to the foreign based counterparts? Silly me.

Could be the same old story about nominees. A Thai gets a bit of cash for being the front on the business while the foreign owners get all the profits. This was also reported about resorts here a few days ago in the Bangkok Post.

[Jim walker]

That's these foreigners again rotten to the core all of them they should all be banned from entering the country all we need to do is think of a way to get them to part with all their money prior to being deported and black listed on the same day they arrive

[CantSpell]

This story is krap. There are not foreign bus drivers, taxi drivers etc driving them around. The food they eat is mostly produced in Thailand by Thai people. The people working in the restaurants, shops etc are mostly Thais. The hotels are owned by Thais, the staff in the hotels are locals not Russians, South Koreans and Chinese. They are drinking Thai beer, etc etc etc. they are attending Thai tourist attractions.

Don't believe everything you read. Plenty of Thais are benefitting from these tourists. If they didn't come their business turnover would be down and many jobs wouldn't exist.

Foreigners may be taking some cream of the top, but it still is better than if nobody came at all.

Exactly to the point.

Yes some money might go to the foreign operators but only about 10-20% of those tours sleep in "Chinese owned hotels", the other sleep in Thai hotels, and the 0 dollar still pay for the hotel, pays for the hotel staffs, feed their families and so on...

There are a few Chinese operators that bought entire condo's and use them as hotel for the cheap tours but I doubt those are over 10% of the total volume of tourist arriving in the country..

Which means that 90% of the Thai operators are going to suffer from this witch hunt...

This government and their policy on tourism are really shooting themselves in the feet with their policies...

Last month only a special ban (or tougher restrictions) on Chinese cars; result: no more Chinese cars: Thai agencies (local operators) that were surfing on this new fast developing trend of the Chinese market are now at 0 revenue..

Very big drop in the hospitality market in the north already in the last six weeks.

"Karavan" tours are now past history, let's tackle the "Zero" dollars tours... Idiots.. Do they want tourists or not?

And no, I agree with most, the high quality tourists are not going to choose Thailand as a destination...

[kiwikeith]

Thailand is not alone here although more closely affiliated with the Chinese.

I Drove Chinese tours in NZ , I have posted what happens before, this means that officials turn a blind eye to what is going on or can't see the forrest for the trees.

Tour guides controlled by the chinese companies run the tours from touchdown at the airport.

Venues are controlled, the tourists are taken to factories to buy things to take home , the factories which the tour guide says will be cheaper than the main shops.

The factories are owned by Chinese /Thai interests and rip the hell out of the tour.

The food venues are preorganised and owned by Chinese / Thai intersts.

Back in NZ I saw tour guides continuously turn their people away from buying anything from a NZ venue.

Everywhere they went they trashed toilets and restuarant tables,

The deer velvet industry where we used to take them to shop at a supposed factory direct outlet was co- owned by Chinese and Kiwis, drivers got a commission , the tourists got robbed.

They rob their own, they line their own up outside free venues and charge them to go in.

Everything is preplanned , now the tour busse's are owned by them.

So if the enlightened ones that run the country have only just finally figured it out, then I would say they already knew and are powerless to stop it as the status quo will prevail.

These people do nothing for the country other than feed a few corrupt people at the top who pocket the rewards and trash the country.

[The Deerhunter]

Thailand is not alone here although more closely affiliated with the Chinese.

I Drove Chinese tours in NZ , I have posted what happens before, this means that officials turn a blind eye to what is going on or can't see the forrest for the trees.

Tour guides controlled by the chinese companies run the tours from touchdown at the airport.

Venues are controlled, the tourists are taken to factories to buy things to take home , the factories which the tour guide says will be cheaper than the main shops.

The factories are owned by Chinese /Thai interests and rip the hell out of the tour.

The food venues are preorganised and owned by Chinese / Thai intersts.

Back in NZ I saw tour guides continuously turn their people away from buying anything from a NZ venue.

Everywhere they went they trashed toilets and restuarant tables,

The deer velvet industry where we used to take them to shop at a supposed factory direct outlet was co- owned by Chinese and Kiwis, drivers got a commission , the tourists got robbed.

They rob their own, they line their own up outside free venues and charge them to go in.

Everything is preplanned , now the tour busse's are owned by them.

So if the enlightened ones that run the country have only just finally figured it out, then I would say they already knew and are powerless to stop it as the status quo will prevail.

These people do nothing for the country other than feed a few corrupt people at the top who pocket the rewards and trash the country.

Yes Kiwikeith, that is exactly the way it works. And in answer to other detractors of the article, yes basic wages (near slave wages I might add) are paid but the real cream goes in to the pockets of the real (frequently offshore) owners of many of the nominee owned businesses. I would not fancy trying to live on 200 to 300 baht a day that millions of Thai are paid. Life is hard here for basic wage earners. Even living like a Thai, 300 baht a day means that things like medical insurance or indeed insurance of anything, are simply not in the equation for millions of Thais. Even at 1,000 baht a day the lucky few are hardly living in the lap of luxury.

[Sakeopete]

Any country reliant on tourism that pushes out backpackers is foolish. Backpackers are often young University students who will someday be that quality tourist the country seeks to attract.

[craigt3365]

This story is krap. There are not foreign bus drivers, taxi drivers etc driving them around. The food they eat is mostly produced in Thailand by Thai people. The people working in the restaurants, shops etc are mostly Thais. The hotels are owned by Thais, the staff in the hotels are locals not Russians, South Koreans and Chinese. They are drinking Thai beer, etc etc etc. they are attending Thai tourist attractions.

Don't believe everything you read. Plenty of Thais are benefitting from these tourists. If they didn't come their business turnover would be down and many jobs wouldn't exist.

Foreigners may be taking some cream of the top, but it still is better than if nobody came at all.

Exactly to the point.

Yes some money might go to the foreign operators but only about 10-20% of those tours sleep in "Chinese owned hotels", the other sleep in Thai hotels, and the 0 dollar still pay for the hotel, pays for the hotel staffs, feed their families and so on...

There are a few Chinese operators that bought entire condo's and use them as hotel for the cheap tours but I doubt those are over 10% of the total volume of tourist arriving in the country..

Which means that 90% of the Thai operators are going to suffer from this witch hunt...

This government and their policy on tourism are really shooting themselves in the feet with their policies...

Last month only a special ban (or tougher restrictions) on Chinese cars; result: no more Chinese cars: Thai agencies (local operators) that were surfing on this new fast developing trend of the Chinese market are now at 0 revenue..

Very big drop in the hospitality market in the north already in the last six weeks.

"Karavan" tours are now past history, let's tackle the "Zero" dollars tours... Idiots.. Do they want tourists or not?

And no, I agree with most, the high quality tourists are not going to choose Thailand as a destination...

Not so sure only 10-20% of the hotels are Chinese owned. Quite a few here in Pattaya, especially the restaurants. These tour groups only eat in specific restaurants. Only shop at specific shops. All owned by Chinese. Yes, there are some Thai workers, but paid a very low wage. Can't see how that contributes much to the local economy. FIT's are much better for a country. Free Independent Travelers. The money is spread around much more evenly.

Some what similar with the Russian tourists. You see all those Pegas buses? Owned by Pegas Touristik, Moscow.

These facts are quite well documented. Do a Google search and you'll find out a lot more about this.

[craigt3365]

Any country reliant on tourism that pushes out backpackers is foolish. Backpackers are often young University students who will someday be that quality tourist the country seeks to attract.

I've not read where Thailand is pushing out backpackers. Trying to move more upscale, yes. Trying to deal with zero cost tour groups, yes. But actively pushing out backpackers? Not really. Sure, some low end places frequented by backpackers have disappeared over the years, and replaced by up scale resorts. But that's what happens in developing countries like Thailand. Same thing in Vietnam, Cambodia, etc. More money to be made...

[jerico2017]

Any country reliant on tourism that pushes out backpackers is foolish. Backpackers are often young University students who will someday be that quality tourist the country seeks to attract.

I was a young man years ago who liked to travel thrifty. Since then spent millions of Baht here. Been a lucky one, Thailand never did bankrupt me. That is luck!

Advice to the new generation of kids seeking to explore: Not worth the gamble / Avoid

[A Skeptic]

I don't get it. 5 - 6 years ago during the Russian tourist boom, Thai's were complaining about the Zero Baht syndrome because Russians were paying for their holidays in Roubles in their own country, the implication being that the Thai's were not paid for the hotel accommodation they (the Thais) provided. The jostling, pushing Russians were all over Phuket's restaurants proving they were not up in their 'free' rooms cooking up freeze dried borscht. I had no idea that if I paid for my holiday in my own currency then the accommodation was free.

[elgordo38]

Quote "It was also discovered that around 305 billion baht was being generated annually by this dodgy business."

I wonder if Dodgy Dave is a part of this business (for info; Dennis Skinner was kicked out of the House of Commons for calling David Cameron 'Dodgy Dave'"

Well he is Dodgy Dave. I watched a video with Corbyn speaking in the house. He sure ripped Dodgy Dave a new one. It was a 10 minute clip and Dodgy did not not look up once he kept checking to see if his shoes needed polishing. It was an Animal House clip with all the conservative wolves howling in the background in their usual unbehaved manner. Sickening.

Edited April 12, 2016 by elgordo38

[ozyjon]

Yes i agree

'' Thailand will rue the day they got rid of backpackers to court the Chinese zero dollar tourists.''

[CantSpell]

Not so sure only 10-20% of the hotels are Chinese owned. Quite a few here in Pattaya, especially the restaurants. These tour groups only eat in specific restaurants. Only shop at specific shops. All owned by Chinese. Yes, there are some Thai workers, but paid a very low wage. Can't see how that contributes much to the local economy. FIT's are much better for a country. Free Independent Travelers. The money is spread around much more evenly.

Some what similar with the Russian tourists. You see all those Pegas buses? Owned by Pegas Touristik, Moscow.

These facts are quite well documented. Do a Google search and you'll find out a lot more about this.

I am not saying it is good, I am saying "don't bite the hand that feeds you"....

I have been dealing with lots of Pegas and Zero dollars chinese groups and what do they mean?

Volume....

Volume is the difference between profit and loses for most hotels, and I am talking about Thai owned hotels

You will not fill the oversupply of hotels in Thailand with FIT and without the Chinese and the Russians groups (which are kinda gone atm but may be back soon).

Also to be noted, as some others commented on it, the zero dollar groups are not the cause of the 300Thb salary..

Would all the tourist be Thai, quality tourists and high spenders, salary would most probably still be 300 thb...

And I am pretty sure that Pegas is actually Turkish (with Russian investments yes)

Edited April 12, 2016 by CantSpell

[craigt3365]

Definitely an over supply of hotels. Some legal, many not....as usual, corruption rears it's ugly head.

[Jingthing]

I've noticed in Pattaya there is a niche industry in fruit vendors that locate right near Chinese tour bus stops selling fruit at 4 times the price available often a few minutes walk away. Maybe not a big deal, but a symptom of what's going on. I've also noticed these groups take over large segments of sidewalks and seem 100 percent oblivious to the efforts of other people trying to pass through them. Oh well!

Edited April 12, 2016 by Jingthing

[Ulic]

Complete BS and spin. Hotels get paid, Food providers get paid, Bus companies get paid.

That said every service provider has prices ground to the nub by hard negotiating package

tour operators, but money is changing hands. Nobody is upsold when they arrive. The

Chinese are way to cheap. The real problem is the Chinese vacation is a 3-4 day junket

not a 3-4 week epic adventure. TAT numbers are inflated by tourists that stay such a

short time it takes 5-6 Chinese tourists to equal a European tourist and probably a 100

Chinese tourists to equal a retired ex-pat. As they have paid for a package, food and all

they spend little except for shopping. The only issue is the 30-40 % shopping kickback

now goes to the Chinese tour operator and not the tuk-tuk/ taxi mafia or local tour

companies and Thais are upset. I have no sympathy.

[jerico2017]

A few years back...

Do all motel staff in Thailand still thumb through every page of your passport starting with page 1, then make a face like "I don't get it", and starts the process all over again, then calls a friend over to restart it a 3rd time before copying some random stamp page, and your photo page?

I almost couldn't re-enter my home country once because of all the bending, browsing going on. (broken passport)

Nothing like your passport getting manhandled several times a day.... unless the rules don't apply to zero tours.

Edited April 12, 2016 by jerico2017

[madmitch]

CP Group, one of Thailand's richest and powerful companies, benefit greatly from these groups as the 7-Eleven seems to be a compulsory stop for most of the tour buses.

You also see a number of these group members eating street food. They often have one of their four or five days free so do actually venture out alone occasionally!

As others have pointed out, most of the hotels they stay in are Thai-owned and they don't sell their rooms at a loss, though from what I've heard, the profit margin is pretty small but in Phuket, for example, these hotels now get year-round trade from the Chinese.

Money does get into the Thai economy, just not as much as the Eurpopeans used to contribute.

[ThailandLOS]

"These foreign tourists, however, were not accompanied by the tour agencies they initially dealt with"

No kidding....

[Roomuck]

This story is krap. There are not foreign bus drivers, taxi drivers etc driving them around. The food they eat is mostly produced in Thailand by Thai people. The people working in the restaurants, shops etc are mostly Thais. The hotels are owned by Thais, the staff in the hotels are locals not Russians, South Koreans and Chinese. They are drinking Thai beer, etc etc etc. they are attending Thai tourist attractions.

Don't believe everything you read. Plenty of Thais are benefitting from these tourists. If they didn't come their business turnover would be down and many jobs wouldn't exist.

Foreigners may be taking some cream of the top, but it still is better than if nobody came at all.

Exactly to the point.

Yes some money might go to the foreign operators but only about 10-20% of those tours sleep in "Chinese owned hotels", the other sleep in Thai hotels, and the 0 dollar still pay for the hotel, pays for the hotel staffs, feed their families and so on...

There are a few Chinese operators that bought entire condo's and use them as hotel for the cheap tours but I doubt those are over 10% of the total volume of tourist arriving in the country..

Which means that 90% of the Thai operators are going to suffer from this witch hunt...

This government and their policy on tourism are really shooting themselves in the feet with their policies...

Last month only a special ban (or tougher restrictions) on Chinese cars; result: no more Chinese cars: Thai agencies (local operators) that were surfing on this new fast developing trend of the Chinese market are now at 0 revenue..

Very big drop in the hospitality market in the north already in the last six weeks.

"Karavan" tours are now past history, let's tackle the "Zero" dollars tours... Idiots.. Do they want tourists or not?

And no, I agree with most, the high quality tourists are not going to choose Thailand as a destination...

Not so sure only 10-20% of the hotels are Chinese owned. Quite a few here in Pattaya, especially the restaurants. These tour groups only eat in specific restaurants. Only shop at specific shops. All owned by Chinese. Yes, there are some Thai workers, but paid a very low wage. Can't see how that contributes much to the local economy. FIT's are much better for a country. Free Independent Travelers. The money is spread around much more evenly.

Some what similar with the Russian tourists. You see all those Pegas buses? Owned by Pegas Touristik, Moscow.

These facts are quite well documented. Do a Google search and you'll find out a lot more about this.

I think the owner of Pegas is a Turk, not a Russian. That is what somebody I know who does business with Pegas told me. If I am right I will take full credit, if I am wrong it was the idiot who told me.