Absolutely!

We all know Pheu Thai MPs don't like to read, especially those following orders from their boss abroad.

Bla, bla, bla, Thaksin, bla, bla, bla......

Terribly sorry and all that, my dear chap, but the topic has k. Wattana who is a former MP and member of the Thaksin owned Pheu Thai party. A party which only acts when Thaksin tells them. Allegedly that is. We only have his word for that.

The army claims that Wattana rejects the charter without having seen it yet you claim it's been available to the public for some time now. So who is sprouting BS, you or the army?

And no, you're not allowed to invoke the name of Lord Voldemort na Dubai (borrowed from BP) in your reply.

I'm sure the reason why Wattana is on holiday now is because he wants to study the draft charter to prepare himself for the 'attitude adjustment' sessions planned. Good tactics, know your 'opponent' and so. If you can't buy and can't sue them out of existence then beat them with their own words, even our favorite criminal fugitive would agree.

Again;

The army claims that Wattana rejects the charter without having seen it yet you claim it's been available to the public for some time now. So who is sprouting BS, you or the army?

What's there to read,..... when everybody knows it "Put up shut up and don't resist"

The army claims that Wattana rejects the charter without having seen it yet you claim it's been available to the public for some time now. So who is sprouting BS, you or the army?

And no, you're not allowed to invoke the name of Lord Voldemort na Dubai (borrowed from BP) in your reply.

I'm sure the reason why Wattana is on holiday now is because he wants to study the draft charter to prepare himself for the 'attitude adjustment' sessions planned. Good tactics, know your 'opponent' and so. If you can't buy and can't sue them out of existence then beat them with their own words, even our favorite criminal fugitive would agree.

Again;

The army claims that Wattana rejects the charter without having seen it yet you claim it's been available to the public for some time now. So who is sprouting BS, you or the army?

Another possibility is than none of us sprout BS. The fact that the draft charter is available both as paper copy and online doesn't mean people are reading it.

I think that we TVF posters have read more of a few Thai charters than the majority of the Thai population.

Edited April 17, 201610 yr by rubl

One would have thought that the provisions that were publicly disclosed would be ample reason for a resounding no on this charter.

Personally I don't get the trouble they are causing themselves with this so called referendum. It offers the illusion of a choice, just like the charter concerned offers an illusion of democracy.

Who do they think they are kidding here ?

The army claims that Wattana rejects the charter without having seen it yet you claim it's been available to the public for some time now. So who is sprouting BS, you or the army?

And no, you're not allowed to invoke the name of Lord Voldemort na Dubai (borrowed from BP) in your reply.

I'm sure the reason why Wattana is on holiday now is because he wants to study the draft charter to prepare himself for the 'attitude adjustment' sessions planned. Good tactics, know your 'opponent' and so. If you can't buy and can't sue them out of existence then beat them with their own words, even our favorite criminal fugitive would agree.

Again;

The army claims that Wattana rejects the charter without having seen it yet you claim it's been available to the public for some time now. So who is sprouting BS, you or the army?

Another possibility is than none of us sprout BS. The fact that the draft charter is available both as paper copy and online doesn't mean people are reading it.

I think that we TVF posters have read more of a few Thai charters than the majority of the Thai population.

"Another possibility is than none of us sprout BS."

No, that's not even remotely possible.

"The fact that the draft charter is available both as paper copy and online doesn't mean people are reading it.

I think that we TVF posters have read more of a few Thai charters than the majority of the Thai population."

Which is irrelevant. When exactly was a complete version of the charter made available to the public and how can the army claim Wattana hadn't read it if it was?

One would have thought that the provisions that were publicly disclosed would be ample reason for a resounding no on this charter.

Personally I don't get the trouble they are causing themselves with this so called referendum. It offers the illusion of a choice, just like the charter concerned offers an illusion of democracy.

Who do they think they are kidding here ?

All of the draft charter is poblicly disclosed. In Thai only though.

Still searching for a reasonable English version. No luck so far. Did you find one?

I'm sure the reason why Wattana is on holiday now is because he wants to study the draft charter to prepare himself for the 'attitude adjustment' sessions planned. Good tactics, know your 'opponent' and so. If you can't buy and can't sue them out of existence then beat them with their own words, even our favorite criminal fugitive would agree.

Again;
The army claims that Wattana rejects the charter without having seen it yet you claim it's been available to the public for some time now. So who is sprouting BS, you or the army?

Another possibility is than none of us sprout BS. The fact that the draft charter is available both as paper copy and online doesn't mean people are reading it.

I think that we TVF posters have read more of a few Thai charters than the majority of the Thai population.

"Another possibility is than none of us sprout BS."
No, that's not even remotely possible.

"The fact that the draft charter is available both as paper copy and online doesn't mean people are reading it.
I think that we TVF posters have read more of a few Thai charters than the majority of the Thai population."
Which is irrelevant. When exactly was a complete version of the charter made available to the public and how can the army claim Wattana hadn't read it if it was?

You may believe what you want to believe, my dear Mzurf.

A complete version of the draft charter was made available on the 29th of March 2016 and posted on various government websites. None so unread as those who don't want to read.

As for how can the Army claim Wattana didn't read it? Probably his facebook page. Wasn't there something like 'waste of time reading it', "I'm against anyway" ?

One would have thought that the provisions that were publicly disclosed would be ample reason for a resounding no on this charter.

Personally I don't get the trouble they are causing themselves with this so called referendum. It offers the illusion of a choice, just like the charter concerned offers an illusion of democracy.

Who do they think they are kidding here ?

All of the draft charter is poblicly disclosed. In Thai only though.

Still searching for a reasonable English version. No luck so far. Did you find one?

No, but I haven't looked. With both PT and the democrats voicing strong opposition to this charter, the chance that it gets a yes is pretty slim.

On another thread some NCPO big shot claimed that in case of a no, the 2014 constitution (amended) will be introduced. Now I am making a wild guess that this amended 2014 constitution will come awfully close to the charter up for referendum. Hence the illusion of choice.

By the way the NCPO spokesman did not claim the subject didn't read the charter, he claims that the subject voiced opposition even before that draft charter was publicly disclosed. My remark in this case still stands, as parts were disclosed well before the disclosure date you mentioned, or in other words, the NCPO spokesman shouldn't whinge and should keep his drivel to himself...

I'm sure the reason why Wattana is on holiday now is because he wants to study the draft charter to prepare himself for the 'attitude adjustment' sessions planned. Good tactics, know your 'opponent' and so. If you can't buy and can't sue them out of existence then beat them with their own words, even our favorite criminal fugitive would agree.

Again;

The army claims that Wattana rejects the charter without having seen it yet you claim it's been available to the public for some time now. So who is sprouting BS, you or the army?

Another possibility is than none of us sprout BS. The fact that the draft charter is available both as paper copy and online doesn't mean people are reading it.

I think that we TVF posters have read more of a few Thai charters than the majority of the Thai population.

"Another possibility is than none of us sprout BS."

No, that's not even remotely possible.

"The fact that the draft charter is available both as paper copy and online doesn't mean people are reading it.

I think that we TVF posters have read more of a few Thai charters than the majority of the Thai population."

Which is irrelevant. When exactly was a complete version of the charter made available to the public and how can the army claim Wattana hadn't read it if it was?

You may believe what you want to believe, my dear Mzurf.

A complete version of the draft charter was made available on the 29th of March 2016 and posted on various government websites. None so unread as those who don't want to read.

As for how can the Army claim Wattana didn't read it? Probably his facebook page. Wasn't there something like 'waste of time reading it', "I'm against anyway" ?

So do you agree that only people who have read the whole draft charter are allowed to express an opinion?

You may believe what you want to believe, my dear Mzurf.

A complete version of the draft charter was made available on the 29th of March 2016 and posted on various government websites. None so unread as those who don't want to read.

As for how can the Army claim Wattana didn't read it? Probably his facebook page. Wasn't there something like 'waste of time reading it', "I'm against anyway" ?

I must say Rubl you really do define what "clutching at straws" means!

I caught you with a classic "Rubl has no clothes" moment when YOU claimed the draft was available yet your Hero's "spokesman/spin machine" claim he had not read it and he was a naughty boy

Are you REALLY claiming that an ex-Minister of HM Government did not read it and that the Army has secret knowledge that he did not read it? or are you simply squiddly, diddly all over again?

My dear chap you really must choose one way or other as the facts are:

It has been published for anyone to read yet the Army say he 'did not read it'

are you waving in surrender or just drowning???

Wattana sees no issues with trying to push a bill through parliament against democratic process to allow a convicted criminal fugitive accused mass murderer and accused terrorist back into the country without having to face a single charge, but rejects charter he hasn't seen?

Maybe the Charter should be pushed through at 2am while everyone is asleep. This scenario would be like dejavu for Wattana.

Definitely a PTP background there.

Edited April 17, 201610 yr by djjamie

Wattana sees no issues with trying to push a bill through parliament against democratic process to allow a convicted criminal fugitive accused mass murderer and accused terrorist back into the country without having to face a single charge, but rejects charter he hasn't seen?

Maybe the Charter should be pushed through at 2am while everyone is asleep. This scenario would be like dejavu for Wattana.

Definitely a PTP background there.

"....but rejects charter he hasn't seen?"

How do you know he hasn't seen it? Here's a news flash for you; not everything the junta says is true. Shocking, right?

Wattana sees no issues with trying to push a bill through parliament against democratic process to allow a convicted criminal fugitive accused mass murderer and accused terrorist back into the country without having to face a single charge, but rejects charter he hasn't seen?

Maybe the Charter should be pushed through at 2am while everyone is asleep. This scenario would be like dejavu for Wattana.

Definitely a PTP background there.

"....but rejects charter he hasn't seen?"

How do you know he hasn't seen it? Here's a news flash for you; not everything the junta says is true. Shocking, right?

hahahaha

Love what you decided to quote out of my post.

What you didn't quote and ignored speak volumes.

Absolutely brilliant....What will you quote next of mine. My fullstop at the end of my statement?!!

Have a great Sunday my friend and stay safe at the tail end of Songkan.

Wattana sees no issues with trying to push a bill through parliament against democratic process to allow a convicted criminal fugitive accused mass murderer and accused terrorist back into the country without having to face a single charge, but rejects charter he hasn't seen?

Maybe the Charter should be pushed through at 2am while everyone is asleep. This scenario would be like dejavu for Wattana.

Definitely a PTP background there.

"....but rejects charter he hasn't seen?"

How do you know he hasn't seen it? Here's a news flash for you; not everything the junta says is true. Shocking, right?

hahahaha

Love what you decided to quote out of my post.

What you didn't quote and ignored speak volumes.

Absolutely brilliant....What will you quote next of mine. My fullstop at the end of my statement?!!

Have a great Sunday my friend and stay safe at the tail end of Songkan.

Try reading the OP once more to remind you about what's discussed. We know you like to harp on about Lord Voldemort na Dubai every chance you get but that doesn't mean we have to waste our time replying to it.

The only thing in your post that was relevant to the thread was your claim that Wattana rejects the charter he hasn't seen.

Again, on what basis do you make this claim?

Edited April 17, 201610 yr by MZurf

Logically, it would not be necessary to read the whole draft Charter to reject it. All you would have to do it is read the sections that are most controversial; i.e., those dealing with the National Legislative Assembly, and Human Rights. Then, after reading only 10% of the Charter, if one aspect of it was sufficiently egregious, rejecting it would be natural.

Besides, for some time the Junta has said that public pronouncements of misinformation about the Charter would be disallowed. In the run-up to releasing the Charter, we had daily clarifications by way of NNT press releases, many based on authoritative statements by Meechai or some other figure. Surely, we could rely on this official statements, yes?

Finally, regarding the election method for the lower house, the selection method for the Senate, the 5 year transition period, an option for electing an outsider PM, and the appointment of key military figures, all of which has been announced officially, the Junta is not repudiating any of these provisions. These are key elements of the Charter, and a reasonable person would be expected to have an opinion about them. Wattana is certainly not the only one to have a negative opinion, and reasons for it. Are we to assume the Junta has perfect information about the reading status of each and every critic? We are now in the region of the absurd.

In short, the Junta's central complaint about not reading the Charter is flimsy and unreasonable. What a surprise!

Edited April 17, 201610 yr by phoenixdoglover

Doesn't matter. Although imposing Shin telecoms monopolies, lending government money to a military dictatorship at low interest so they could buy Shin company products, and changing the law to sell business to a foreign organization and avoid taxes might take some adding up.

Someone else doing wrong doesn't excuse or make right what the Shins allegedly did or have been convicted for.

Bearing in mind Shin patriarch Thaksin told Forbes that the family fortune grew 450% during his puppet PTP regime, and then there were the previous Shin governments, that's a lot of dosh that could have improved the lot of a lot of Thais!

Wonder how many people were affected by the Krungthai fraud? The number 1 defendant will remain a fugitive until the statute of limitations expires - or he gets whitewashed. Serious sentences on that one to co-defendants.

However, there are plenty of other families taking advantage of the situation with monopolies and look the other way authorities.

Baerboxer, i have seen you repeat this quite a lot re the interview with Forbes. I did a search today and could find nothing of the sort. I found one full transcript of an interview with Tim Ferguson of Forbes from October 2012, and there is no mention of that.

When was the interview carried out?

Wattana sees no issues with trying to push a bill through parliament against democratic process to allow a convicted criminal fugitive accused mass murderer and accused terrorist back into the country without having to face a single charge, but rejects charter he hasn't seen?

Maybe the Charter should be pushed through at 2am while everyone is asleep. This scenario would be like dejavu for Wattana.

Definitely a PTP background there.

"....but rejects charter he hasn't seen?"

How do you know he hasn't seen it? Here's a news flash for you; not everything the junta says is true. Shocking, right?

hahahaha

Love what you decided to quote out of my post.

What you didn't quote and ignored speak volumes.

Absolutely brilliant....What will you quote next of mine. My fullstop at the end of my statement?!!

Have a great Sunday my friend and stay safe at the tail end of Songkan.

Try reading the OP once more to remind you about what's discussed. We know you like to harp on about Lord Voldemort na Dubai every chance you get but that doesn't mean we have to waste our time replying to it.

The only thing in your post that was relevant to the thread was your claim that Wattana rejects the charter he hasn't seen.

Again, on what basis do you make this claim?

@djjamie.

I see you have "liked" my post. How about answering the question?

One would have thought that the provisions that were publicly disclosed would be ample reason for a resounding no on this charter.

Personally I don't get the trouble they are causing themselves with this so called referendum. It offers the illusion of a choice, just like the charter concerned offers an illusion of democracy.

Who do they think they are kidding here ?

All of the draft charter is poblicly disclosed. In Thai only though.

Still searching for a reasonable English version. No luck so far. Did you find one?

No, but I haven't looked. With both PT and the democrats voicing strong opposition to this charter, the chance that it gets a yes is pretty slim.

On another thread some NCPO big shot claimed that in case of a no, the 2014 constitution (amended) will be introduced. Now I am making a wild guess that this amended 2014 constitution will come awfully close to the charter up for referendum. Hence the illusion of choice.

By the way the NCPO spokesman did not claim the subject didn't read the charter, he claims that the subject voiced opposition even before that draft charter was publicly disclosed. My remark in this case still stands, as parts were disclosed well before the disclosure date you mentioned, or in other words, the NCPO spokesman shouldn't whinge and should keep his drivel to himself...

Wild guess your whinging could also be called drivel. Uninformed and opinionated since you don't read as you say.

You may believe what you want to believe, my dear Mzurf.

A complete version of the draft charter was made available on the 29th of March 2016 and posted on various government websites. None so unread as those who don't want to read.

As for how can the Army claim Wattana didn't read it? Probably his facebook page. Wasn't there something like 'waste of time reading it', "I'm against anyway" ?

I must say Rubl you really do define what "clutching at straws" means!

I caught you with a classic "Rubl has no clothes" moment when YOU claimed the draft was available yet your Hero's "spokesman/spin machine" claim he had not read it and he was a naughty boy

Are you REALLY claiming that an ex-Minister of HM Government did not read it and that the Army has secret knowledge that he did not read it? or are you simply squiddly, diddly all over again?

My dear chap you really must choose one way or other as the facts are:

It has been published for anyone to read yet the Army say he 'did not read it'

are you waving in surrender or just drowning???

Logic not your strong point I guess.

The fact that a paper copy and even an online version is avaliable doesn't mean someone reads it. Even Sjaak327 doesn't read it he just told me.

The squiddly diddling seems from those you like to be negative and don't need logic to be so. IMHO of course

"Another possibility is than none of us sprout BS."

No, that's not even remotely possible.

"The fact that the draft charter is available both as paper copy and online doesn't mean people are reading it.

I think that we TVF posters have read more of a few Thai charters than the majority of the Thai population."

Which is irrelevant. When exactly was a complete version of the charter made available to the public and how can the army claim Wattana hadn't read it if it was?

You may believe what you want to believe, my dear Mzurf.

A complete version of the draft charter was made available on the 29th of March 2016 and posted on various government websites. None so unread as those who don't want to read.

As for how can the Army claim Wattana didn't read it? Probably his facebook page. Wasn't there something like 'waste of time reading it', "I'm against anyway" ?

So do you agree that only people who have read the whole draft charter are allowed to express an opinion?

Everyone can express an opinion, even you. Of course not having read a single letter of the item your express an opinion on tends to lessen the value of the opinion a wee bit.

As for the situation here, well still under a military junta, so even more a need to have an informed opinion.

Logically, it would not be necessary to read the whole draft Charter to reject it. All you would have to do it is read the sections that are most controversial; i.e., those dealing with the National Legislative Assembly, and Human Rights. Then, after reading only 10% of the Charter, if one aspect of it was sufficiently egregious, rejecting it would be natural.

Besides, for some time the Junta has said that public pronouncements of misinformation about the Charter would be disallowed. In the run-up to releasing the Charter, we had daily clarifications by way of NNT press releases, many based on authoritative statements by Meechai or some other figure. Surely, we could rely on this official statements, yes?

Finally, regarding the election method for the lower house, the selection method for the Senate, the 5 year transition period, an option for electing an outsider PM, and the appointment of key military figures, all of which has been announced officially, the Junta is not repudiating any of these provisions. These are key elements of the Charter, and a reasonable person would be expected to have an opinion about them. Wattana is certainly not the only one to have a negative opinion, and reasons for it. Are we to assume the Junta has perfect information about the reading status of each and every critic? We are now in the region of the absurd.

In short, the Junta's central complaint about not reading the Charter is flimsy and unreasonable. What a surprise!

You assume a lot here, my dear chap. Did you read the 10% of the draft chapter, either in Thai or as translation from a legal expert? Or you 'knowledgeble' in Law ?

Doesn't matter. Although imposing Shin telecoms monopolies, lending government money to a military dictatorship at low interest so they could buy Shin company products, and changing the law to sell business to a foreign organization and avoid taxes might take some adding up.

Someone else doing wrong doesn't excuse or make right what the Shins allegedly did or have been convicted for.

Bearing in mind Shin patriarch Thaksin told Forbes that the family fortune grew 450% during his puppet PTP regime, and then there were the previous Shin governments, that's a lot of dosh that could have improved the lot of a lot of Thais!

Wonder how many people were affected by the Krungthai fraud? The number 1 defendant will remain a fugitive until the statute of limitations expires - or he gets whitewashed. Serious sentences on that one to co-defendants.

However, there are plenty of other families taking advantage of the situation with monopolies and look the other way authorities.

Baerboxer, i have seen you repeat this quite a lot re the interview with Forbes. I did a search today and could find nothing of the sort. I found one full transcript of an interview with Tim Ferguson of Forbes from October 2012, and there is no mention of that.

When was the interview carried out?

I could find the information where about half of his assets were frozen but nothing yet on when they were returned.

However, like Baerboxer I am sure that I have read it somewhere, but like you, I cannot put my finger on it yet.

Doesn't matter. Although imposing Shin telecoms monopolies, lending government money to a military dictatorship at low interest so they could buy Shin company products, and changing the law to sell business to a foreign organization and avoid taxes might take some adding up.

Someone else doing wrong doesn't excuse or make right what the Shins allegedly did or have been convicted for.

Bearing in mind Shin patriarch Thaksin told Forbes that the family fortune grew 450% during his puppet PTP regime, and then there were the previous Shin governments, that's a lot of dosh that could have improved the lot of a lot of Thais!

Wonder how many people were affected by the Krungthai fraud? The number 1 defendant will remain a fugitive until the statute of limitations expires - or he gets whitewashed. Serious sentences on that one to co-defendants.

However, there are plenty of other families taking advantage of the situation with monopolies and look the other way authorities.

Baerboxer, i have seen you repeat this quite a lot re the interview with Forbes. I did a search today and could find nothing of the sort. I found one full transcript of an interview with Tim Ferguson of Forbes from October 2012, and there is no mention of that.

When was the interview carried out?

I could find the information where about half of his assets were frozen but nothing yet on when they were returned.

However, like Baerboxer I am sure that I have read it somewhere, but like you, I cannot put my finger on it yet.

I remember that two or three years ago there was an article or interview mentioning US1.3 billion returned to Thaksin under the Yingluck government. Need to do some searching.

You may believe what you want to believe, my dear Mzurf.

A complete version of the draft charter was made available on the 29th of March 2016 and posted on various government websites. None so unread as those who don't want to read.

As for how can the Army claim Wattana didn't read it? Probably his facebook page. Wasn't there something like 'waste of time reading it', "I'm against anyway" ?

I must say Rubl you really do define what "clutching at straws" means!

I caught you with a classic "Rubl has no clothes" moment when YOU claimed the draft was available yet your Hero's "spokesman/spin machine" claim he had not read it and he was a naughty boy

Are you REALLY claiming that an ex-Minister of HM Government did not read it and that the Army has secret knowledge that he did not read it? or are you simply squiddly, diddly all over again?

My dear chap you really must choose one way or other as the facts are:

It has been published for anyone to read yet the Army say he 'did not read it'

are you waving in surrender or just drowning???

Logic not your strong point I guess.

The fact that a paper copy and even an online version is avaliable doesn't mean someone reads it. Even Sjaak327 doesn't read it he just told me.

The squiddly diddling seems from those you like to be negative and don't need logic to be so. IMHO of course

hmm pot and kettle spring aptly to mind

your support for the Army Junta is amazing considering even the well beaten Dems are weakening in that regard

your assumption that the ex-Minister did NOT read it based upon a Colonel from the Junta saying he did not is amazing presumption dear fellow!

lie down, take the meds and dream on that they really are going to save Thailand from the 'mystery' bogey man that is, largely, only existing within your well developed imagination

Wattana sees no issues with trying to push a bill through parliament against democratic process to allow a convicted criminal fugitive accused mass murderer and accused terrorist back into the country without having to face a single charge, but rejects charter he hasn't seen?

Maybe the Charter should be pushed through at 2am while everyone is asleep. This scenario would be like dejavu for Wattana.

Definitely a PTP background there.

You do realize that there is no need to push anything through at any time, if the NCPO makes it the active charter, there is nothing anyone can do about it. You also whinge about an amnesty bill that was voted for by a majority of MP's, yet have no problem with the amnesty or even article 44 of the current constitution, one that didn't go through parliament either, and not a single member of the Thai electorate could do anything about it.

He rejects the charter based on provisions that have been discussed broadly, even on this forum. And since you mention democratic principles, you should also reject this charter....

One would have thought that the provisions that were publicly disclosed would be ample reason for a resounding no on this charter.

Personally I don't get the trouble they are causing themselves with this so called referendum. It offers the illusion of a choice, just like the charter concerned offers an illusion of democracy.

Who do they think they are kidding here ?

All of the draft charter is poblicly disclosed. In Thai only though.

Still searching for a reasonable English version. No luck so far. Did you find one?

No, but I haven't looked. With both PT and the democrats voicing strong opposition to this charter, the chance that it gets a yes is pretty slim.

On another thread some NCPO big shot claimed that in case of a no, the 2014 constitution (amended) will be introduced. Now I am making a wild guess that this amended 2014 constitution will come awfully close to the charter up for referendum. Hence the illusion of choice.

By the way the NCPO spokesman did not claim the subject didn't read the charter, he claims that the subject voiced opposition even before that draft charter was publicly disclosed. My remark in this case still stands, as parts were disclosed well before the disclosure date you mentioned, or in other words, the NCPO spokesman shouldn't whinge and should keep his drivel to himself...

Wild guess your whinging could also be called drivel. Uninformed and opinionated since you don't read as you say.

I don't need to read the charter, the provisions that have been discussed are so undemocratic and unreasonable that the remainder of the content doesn't matter, no democratic person could agree with this charter based on the content that has been broadly discussed and mentioned by several posters on this thread, end of story.

"Another possibility is than none of us sprout BS."

No, that's not even remotely possible.

"The fact that the draft charter is available both as paper copy and online doesn't mean people are reading it.

I think that we TVF posters have read more of a few Thai charters than the majority of the Thai population."

Which is irrelevant. When exactly was a complete version of the charter made available to the public and how can the army claim Wattana hadn't read it if it was?

You may believe what you want to believe, my dear Mzurf.

A complete version of the draft charter was made available on the 29th of March 2016 and posted on various government websites. None so unread as those who don't want to read.

As for how can the Army claim Wattana didn't read it? Probably his facebook page. Wasn't there something like 'waste of time reading it', "I'm against anyway" ?

So do you agree that only people who have read the whole draft charter are allowed to express an opinion?

Everyone can express an opinion, even you. Of course not having read a single letter of the item your express an opinion on tends to lessen the value of the opinion a wee bit.

As for the situation here, well still under a military junta, so even more a need to have an informed opinion.

"Everyone can express an opinion, even you."

No, they cannot. Not without reprisals. So far we've been able to express our opinions with heavy moderation here on TVF because what we say has no influence, but who knows how long this will last.

"Of course not having read a single letter of the item your express an opinion on tends to lessen the value of the opinion a wee bit."

Here's where you get confused. Some of the features of the new charter have been known and discussed for some time now, features which any person who wants democracy in Thailand will reject out of hand. No need to read all of it. The remaining parts will not under any circumstances make it more edible.

"As for the situation here, well still under a military junta, so even more a need to have an informed opinion."

Why is it more important to have an informed opinion under a junta? Some would say (and I agree) that it's the other way around because the junta cannot be voted out and will do as they please anyway, with them having granted themselves god-like powers through article 44 and the mother of all amnesties.

You do remember that they did that, right?

Doesn't matter. Although imposing Shin telecoms monopolies, lending government money to a military dictatorship at low interest so they could buy Shin company products, and changing the law to sell business to a foreign organization and avoid taxes might take some adding up.

Someone else doing wrong doesn't excuse or make right what the Shins allegedly did or have been convicted for.

Bearing in mind Shin patriarch Thaksin told Forbes that the family fortune grew 450% during his puppet PTP regime, and then there were the previous Shin governments, that's a lot of dosh that could have improved the lot of a lot of Thais!

Wonder how many people were affected by the Krungthai fraud? The number 1 defendant will remain a fugitive until the statute of limitations expires - or he gets whitewashed. Serious sentences on that one to co-defendants.

However, there are plenty of other families taking advantage of the situation with monopolies and look the other way authorities.

Baerboxer, i have seen you repeat this quite a lot re the interview with Forbes. I did a search today and could find nothing of the sort. I found one full transcript of an interview with Tim Ferguson of Forbes from October 2012, and there is no mention of that.

When was the interview carried out?

I could find the information where about half of his assets were frozen but nothing yet on when they were returned.

However, like Baerboxer I am sure that I have read it somewhere, but like you, I cannot put my finger on it yet.

We are not looking for an article saying his assets were returned. We are looking for the much referred about interview where TS said his families wealth had increased by 450% in the puppet regime.

One wonders what planet some in Thailand are on , nobody with an ounce of democracy in their blood would give a toss if they seen the charter or not , when you have automatic appointments of top military brass, including the defence secretary, all just walking into positions , Senators being appointed, who needs to read the charter , my suggestion would be all members of the NCPO read the volumes that's been printed on the Westminster System and forget about a particular Chinese publication , for those who live and know China, Communism is on the wane , within a 25-50 years time frame, the people will eventually make sure of that...........................................................

Same planet as the UK House of Lords I guess.

I realise it has changed somewhat over the years but being ruled by a bunch of chinless hooray harries in the House by no other virtue of an accident of birth must have got right up the nose of a lot of people

Doesn't matter. Although imposing Shin telecoms monopolies, lending government money to a military dictatorship at low interest so they could buy Shin company products, and changing the law to sell business to a foreign organization and avoid taxes might take some adding up.

Someone else doing wrong doesn't excuse or make right what the Shins allegedly did or have been convicted for.

Bearing in mind Shin patriarch Thaksin told Forbes that the family fortune grew 450% during his puppet PTP regime, and then there were the previous Shin governments, that's a lot of dosh that could have improved the lot of a lot of Thais!

Wonder how many people were affected by the Krungthai fraud? The number 1 defendant will remain a fugitive until the statute of limitations expires - or he gets whitewashed. Serious sentences on that one to co-defendants.

However, there are plenty of other families taking advantage of the situation with monopolies and look the other way authorities.

Baerboxer, i have seen you repeat this quite a lot re the interview with Forbes. I did a search today and could find nothing of the sort. I found one full transcript of an interview with Tim Ferguson of Forbes from October 2012, and there is no mention of that.

When was the interview carried out?

I could find the information where about half of his assets were frozen but nothing yet on when they were returned.

However, like Baerboxer I am sure that I have read it somewhere, but like you, I cannot put my finger on it yet.

We are not looking for an article saying his assets were returned. We are looking for the much referred about interview where TS said his families wealth had increased by 450% in the puppet regime.

Because I'm bored I also looked for this mythical article.

One would have thought something this explosive would have been plastered throughout Thai media, especially since it was with Forbes.

Nothing in the Forbes archives, nothing that I can find with Thai media either.

I suspect this is falling into the 'aliens abducted my baby' realm.....Now where's my latest copy of national Enquirer, Oh that's just focused on the Elton John hubby three in a bed saga LOL